Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[blackngold29]

GL can do whatever the fuck he wants to his movies, I just wish he would just stop trying to erase history and give the fans the original editions. He could release the newer versions too, but the original Star Wars films are the ones that are held so highly among movie fans, not these new versions.

He said "No, I won't release the originals."

People bitched.

He gave in and released the originals.

People still bitch.

What do you want people?

You want the originals? You got em, go watch them. So what if he changes them? You already have what you want. Nobody is making you buy the new ones.

[ZBomber]

GL can do whatever the fuck he wants to his movies, I just wish he would just stop trying to erase history and give the fans the original editions. He could release the newer versions too, but the original Star Wars films are the ones that are held so highly among movie fans, not these new versions.

He said "No, I won't release the originals."

People bitched.

He gave in and released the originals.

People still bitch.

What do you want people?

You want the originals? You got em, go watch them. So what if he changes them? You already have what you want. Nobody is making you buy the new ones.

The last original release was a pretty low quality transfer. I'm not a huge video buff, but I noticed the picture just looked horrible. I think some scenes were still changed as well, which is kind of pointless, although I can't remember what was changed, if anything.

What is wrong with wanting GL to release the originals on the current medium standard? plus you know he will release these in 5-6 years at the end of the blu-ray's life, just like he did with the dvds.

[blackngold29]

From what I heard, the people wanted raw and original, so that's what GL released. 2.0 sound, shitty picture, happy 1977.

By the end of Blu-ray's life it'll just be all digital from then on, so we'll get the 3D versions (which will never be 'the original versions'). If he releases an HD version of the 1977 cut, even for fans who really want 'the originals' I wouldn't see the need for anything beyond that. But whatever is next would seem like overkill, what's a 2K version of the 1977 cut really giving you?

If he doesn't release that people will say what you just did. If that comes out, people will of course complain they have to buy it again and that GL is just cashing in. The guy can't can't win.

[hefdaddy42]

GL can do whatever the fuck he wants to his movies, I just wish he would just stop trying to erase history and give the fans the original editions. He could release the newer versions too, but the original Star Wars films are the ones that are held so highly among movie fans, not these new versions.

He said "No, I won't release the originals."

People bitched.

He gave in and released the originals.

People still bitch.

What do you want people?

You want the originals? You got em, go watch them. So what if he changes them? You already have what you want. Nobody is making you buy the new ones.

I don't get your point-of-view.

When people say "Give us the originals" what they obviously mean is give the original versions of the films, the ones that made history, the same tech transfer to Blu-ray quality that any other classic film would get.  What's the problem with that?

[Phoenix87x]

So in honor all the outrage, I have decided to have a little Star Wars Marathon (of the unaltered original trilogy that is). A New Hope is still fantastic and Empire is just as captivating today as it was when I was a kid. Now I'm in the middle of Jedi, which don't get me wrong I do love Jedi, but it tends to drag in few places.

I'm at the Ewok village part at the moment, so naturally I'm writing a post rather then paying attention, but the climax more then makes up for the lulls. 

Picture wise, the Zoomed in Non-anamorphic DVD's are not really as bad as I remember them being. I'm actually quite happy with them.

[ZBomber]

I think I will pick those up on DVD. A little disappointed there is only stereo (that was a huge plus of the blu ray for me), but I really wanna watch the Star Wars films again.

Guess I'll be looking in some of the second-hand comic stores around here.

[Horatio]

He said "No, I won't release the originals."

People bitched.

He gave in and released the originals.

People still bitch.

What do you want people?

You want the originals? You got em, go watch them. So what if he changes them? You already have what you want. Nobody is making you buy the new ones.

Can't wait until LCD TVs reach QFHD 3840x2160 resolution in a few years and we're still watching the same 240p original copies scaled up and blurred to a screen almost 10 times their size. This isn't about mindless fan bitching, this is about preservation.

[blackngold29]

When people say "Give us the originals" what they obviously mean is give the original versions of the films, the ones that made history, the same tech transfer to Blu-ray quality that any other classic film would get.  What's the problem with that?

So like I said in the other post, he released the originals on DVD. If he were to release them on Blu-ray people would just complain that he's "cashing in again."


My fundamental difference with pretty much everyone here is that I don't care if he updates them. He was smart enough from the beginning to gain control over them so he could update them over time. Star Wars is a story written by George Lucas and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you write a story, you can change it whenever and however you see fit.

To me the latest updated version of the film is the film. I don't buy every version, (if this Blu-ray box set didn't have a shitload of bonus features I would not have bought it) and I understand that when the Blu-ray box set shows up at my house on Friday it won't be the "final" versions and I have no issues with that.

[zepp-head]

GL can do whatever the fuck he wants to his movies, I just wish he would just stop trying to erase history and give the fans the original editions. He could release the newer versions too, but the original Star Wars films are the ones that are held so highly among movie fans, not these new versions.

He said "No, I won't release the originals."

People bitched.

He gave in and released the originals.

People still bitch.

What do you want people?

You want the originals? You got em, go watch them. So what if he changes them? You already have what you want. Nobody is making you buy the new ones.

The last original release was a pretty low quality transfer. I'm not a huge video buff, but I noticed the picture just looked horrible. I think some scenes were still changed as well, which is kind of pointless, although I can't remember what was changed, if anything.

What is wrong with wanting GL to release the originals on the current medium standard? plus you know he will release these in 5-6 years at the end of the blu-ray's life, just like he did with the dvds.

The 2006 original trilogy releases were from the same master as the laser discs.  You know why?  It's not because he caved into people complaining.  What happened was, money was changing hands on illegal copies of the original trilogy using the laser disc transfers.  So, Lucas killed that little market, small though it may be, by using the same transfers.

[ReaPsTA]

So like I said in the other post, he released the originals on DVD. If he were to release them on Blu-ray people would just complain that he's "cashing in again."

Dude, you post on an internet message board, how can you not understand how internet fandom works?  If Lucas released a legitimate transfer of the original trilogy, one of two things would happen:

 - People would forget years of hating Lucas and praise him for the respect shown to Star Wars fans.

 - People would be markedly less interested in talking about the crappiness of the Special Editions because the originals are out there.

[hefdaddy42]

So like I said in the other post, he released the originals on DVD. If he were to release them on Blu-ray people would just complain that he's "cashing in again."

Yes, just like when people bitch about other movies that have been released on DVD and then they get released on Blu-Ray.  WTF, no they wouldn't.

My fundamental difference with pretty much everyone here is that I don't care if he updates them. He was smart enough from the beginning to gain control over them so he could update them over time. Star Wars is a story written by George Lucas and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you write a story, you can change it whenever and however you see fit.

Yes, because authors and directors do this all the time.  Oh wait, no they fucking don't.

To me the latest updated version of the film is the film. I don't buy every version, (if this Blu-ray box set didn't have a shitload of bonus features I would not have bought it) and I understand that when the Blu-ray box set shows up at my house on Friday it won't be the "final" versions and I have no issues with that.

And you don't see that YOUR viewpoint is the anomaly?

[ACID_FOX]

I'm not overly bothered about the updates GL has made, but blackngold your argument just sounds dumb. What's so wrong about people wanting the original film they saw as kids on Blu Ray? He could have obviously of released both editions of each film, but didn't, hence why people are pissed. Like someone else said, people aren't pissed that he's changing his story, it's that he's trying to bury the originals as if they never existed, thus alienating the fanbase that allowed him to become stupid rich and make these changes in the first place.

[snapple]

I might be in the minority here, but the only change that had me  was the Dug in Jabba's palace. Other than that, I don't see the actual changes as THAT bad.

However, I wish he would keep the movies in tact. My brothers and myself were able to have epic lightsaber duels in our yard with ANH-ROTJ, OG style. I'd like my kids to be able to enjoy the same movies I did. No changes.

[Adami]

I might be in the minority here, but the only change that had me  was the Dug in Jabba's palace. Other than that, I don't see the actual changes as THAT bad.

However, I wish he would keep the movies in tact. My brothers and myself were able to have epic lightsaber duels in our yard with ANH-ROTJ, OG style. I'd like my kids to be able to enjoy the same movies I did. No changes.

I generally agree that aside from the musical number at Jabbas palace, that I'm not overly bothered by the changes. However....he's crossing the line with Darth's NOOOOOOOO in Jedi. That's not him doing what he wanted to do years ago but couldn't, that's him randomly deciding to alter something for the worse.

[snapple]

The Nooooooo!!! didn't really feel too far out of place though. I mean, come on, he's the kid's fucking father. But, it does ruin some of the moment. I'm just saying it isn't like so awful it's out of the realm of possibility and Lucas should be crucified, stoned, sodomized and otherwise tortured to death.

edit: Jedi wasn't that great of a movie anyway. Better than the new 3, but meh.

[Adami]

The Nooooooo!!! didn't really feel too far out of place though. I mean, come on, he's the kid's fucking father. But, it does ruin some of the moment. I'm just saying it isn't like so awful it's out of the realm of possibility and Lucas should be crucified, stoned, sodomized and otherwise tortured to death.

edit: Jedi wasn't that great of a movie anyway. Better than the new 3, but meh.

That scene is so powerful and the NOOOO just makes it comedic. As does Bens orgasm yell that has been retouched. If something isn't necessary, then don't add it in 30 years later.

[snapple]

The Nooooooo!!! didn't really feel too far out of place though. I mean, come on, he's the kid's fucking father. But, it does ruin some of the moment. I'm just saying it isn't like so awful it's out of the realm of possibility and Lucas should be crucified, stoned, sodomized and otherwise tortured to death.

edit: Jedi wasn't that great of a movie anyway. Better than the new 3, but meh.

That scene is so powerful and the NOOOO just makes it comedic. As does Bens orgasm yell that has been retouched. If something isn't necessary, then don't add it in 30 years later.

Only part with this post I disagree with is "comedic". Just because you're disgusted at the change doesn't make it comedic. I went into watching the clip fully expecting to laugh and thought "well, that really isn't bad".

[orcus116]

Star Wars is a story written by George Lucas and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you write a story, you can change it whenever and however you see fit.

He might've come up with the basic concepts but all that writing help he got in the 70s helped develop the legacy you see. Those are the people that turned his protagonists and antagonists into real god damn characters. If you think Lucas was the sole genius behind all or most of Star Wars you'd be dead wrong.

Only part with this post I disagree with is "comedic". Just because you're disgusted at the change doesn't make it comedic. I went into watching the clip fully expecting to laugh and thought "well, that really isn't bad".

You seriously don't see what's so wrong about turning the scene from shockingly triumphant to blatantly pointing out to the audience Vader's change? It's the first moment you ever see Vader show any sign of sympathy towards a person and it turns it from being emotionally powerful to him saying something Vader would have never said. What has the OT Vader ever done that would make you think he'd suddenly utter "NOOOOOOOO!" at a moment like that? It's completely 100% out of character, which is what made it so hilarious when it was done in Episode 3.

[snapple]

I'm not disagreeing with your point at all. I'm just saying, It's not like Vader starts crying says "I love you Luke". He just is like "NO FUCK THIS SHIT". It really is just Vader's emotion being audible, as you have pointed out. I don't know how old you are, but the people buying this stuff now really need a sign like this. My generation and those younger are for the most part incredibly stupid and need a hint whenever they can.

[snapple]

I'm not disagreeing with your point at all. I'm just saying, It's not like Vader starts crying says "I love you Luke". He just is like "NO FUCK THIS SHIT". It really is just Vader's emotion being audible, as you have pointed out. I don't know how old you are, but the people buying this stuff now really need a sign like this. My generation and those younger are for the most part incredibly stupid and need a hint whenever they can.

I apologize for my lack of proper punctuation. I'm several beers and a glass of scotch in.

[orcus116]

Heh, no worries. Regarding your second point I don't think that a director should ever dumb down an already universally praised series of movies just so others can "understand" it. Stuff like that usually backfires since it might insult the original audience.

[snapple]

Heh, no worries. Regarding your second point I don't think that a director should ever dumb down an already universally praised series of movies just so others can "understand" it. Stuff like that usually backfires since it might insult the original audience.

Yeah. I understand that. I guess I was just never really that attached to ROTJ. If they fuck with ESB, I'll be mad. I love you, I know (Insert GL Lucas edit) I love you too. I could see him doing that.

[orcus116]

Well that was the original line and Harrison Ford hated it (rightfully so). After a few dozen takes Kershner just went to Ford and said "What would Han Solo say?". What you see in the movie was the very next take.

[snapple]

Well that was the original line and Harrison Ford hated it (rightfully so). After a few dozen takes Kershner just went to Ford and said "What would Han Solo say?". What you see in the movie was the very next take.

I do remember reading that now. Thank you. Seems like that might be on the short list of things Lucas is going to fuck up.

The beautiful thing about ESB is that it could be a standalone movie, if you read the opening text. It is one of the best movies ever made, in my opinion. I think the problem with Lucas is, that because he didn't direct it, and it's generally the most liked of Star Wars movies, he feels he needs to prove himself better.

[Adami]

As far as I know, (from what little I remember) isn't ESB the least altered of all the retouched movies? I can't think of a whole lot of bad changes that have been done, those seem to be mostly reserved for A New Hope and Jedi.

[snapple]

As far as I know, (from what little I remember) isn't ESB the least altered of all the retouched movies? I can't think of a whole lot of bad changes that have been done, those seem to be mostly reserved for A New Hope and Jedi.

You know, I haven't watched any of the originals on anything other than the VHS.

[Adami]

I just looked it up. Yea it's the least changed, and most of the changes I have 0 problem with. Most of them are visual and are in accordance with his motto of making it just look more up to date or doing things he couldn't have done visually back then, none of which really detract in any way from what's going on. Of course he changes Bobba fetts voice to that Kiwi guy, but that's fine too since he only has one line and the original voice wasn't exactly memorable. So from what I understand, he isn't changing anything else in a negative way for this movie on the Blu Rays.

[orcus116]

Probably since Lucas likes it the least and, like snapple mentioned, it's most likely because he had the least to do with it.

[Super Dude]

Probably since Lucas likes it the least and, like snapple mentioned, it's most likely because he had the least to do with it.

I don't know if this is what they call irony, but it turned out the best film he ever did, and he didn't even do it.  He should go back to making '60s throwback movies and pseudo-experimental sci-fi shit.

[blackngold29]

So like I said in the other post, he released the originals on DVD. If he were to release them on Blu-ray people would just complain that he's "cashing in again."

Yes, just like when people bitch about other movies that have been released on DVD and then they get released on Blu-Ray.  WTF, no they wouldn't.

We'll revisit this if he releases them on Blu-ray.

My fundamental difference with pretty much everyone here is that I don't care if he updates them. He was smart enough from the beginning to gain control over them so he could update them over time. Star Wars is a story written by George Lucas and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you write a story, you can change it whenever and however you see fit.

Yes, because authors and directors do this all the time.  Oh wait, no they fucking don't.

Just because it's not common doesn't make it wrong.

To me the latest updated version of the film is the film. I don't buy every version, (if this Blu-ray box set didn't have a shitload of bonus features I would not have bought it) and I understand that when the Blu-ray box set shows up at my house on Friday it won't be the "final" versions and I have no issues with that.

And you don't see that YOUR viewpoint is the anomaly?

Yes, that's why I said, "My fundamental difference with pretty much everyone here is..." I can also go to forums where I am in the majority.

[orcus116]

My fundamental difference with pretty much everyone here is that I don't care if he updates them. He was smart enough from the beginning to gain control over them so he could update them over time. Star Wars is a story written by George Lucas and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it. If you write a story, you can change it whenever and however you see fit.

Yes, because authors and directors do this all the time.  Oh wait, no they fucking don't.

Just because it's not common doesn't make it wrong.

It's very difficult for a mind, especially a creative mind, to look back on a work and still see it in the same light even after as little as a few years let alone the 30+ Lucas is at at this point. But even if you like that work less at this point in time any attempt to change it with your current mindset will disturb the atmosphere the original work holds. It's the downside to being a perfectionist, though I hardly consider what Lucas is doing something that a perfectionist would do since they tend to actually make their work better. For example my friend had been working on an issue for a comic that he was doing. He started on page 1 then went on all the way to page 30. By the time he got there he noticed inconsistencies in the painting style for the first pages. He redid those and found a different way to paint and decided to update the other pages. He still hasn't finished because he's stuck in this perpetual cycle of "I need to improve" even when the stuff he has done is absolutely 100% fine as is. Unlike my friend Lucas has actually finished a work and done the more assholish thing of getting stuck in that same improvement cycle 20-30 years after the fact as if he's stuck in a similar cycle of changing things that are fine to begin with. And you wanna know why that is and other directors don't do it? Because think of all that Lucas done in the last 10-15 years. Fuck with Star Wars and that's it. He has no other project or creative ideas to devote his time to.

So yes there is a problem if a director does it, uncommon or not. It's called insecurity.

[zepp-head]

So like I said in the other post, he released the originals on DVD. If he were to release them on Blu-ray people would just complain that he's "cashing in again."

Dude, you post on an internet message board, how can you not understand how internet fandom works?  If Lucas released a legitimate transfer of the original trilogy, one of two things would happen:

 - People would forget years of hating Lucas and praise him for the respect shown to Star Wars fans.

 - People would be markedly less interested in talking about the crappiness of the Special Editions because the originals are out there.

   Nice.

[MetalJunkie]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Did you like my edit? Yeah, didn't think so.

[blackngold29]

Haha, I'm interested to hear how the Episode VI NOO fits in. That one I can see the argument for being dumb.


Ewoks blinking, not so much.

[ZBomber]

The amazon rating for this is 1.9 stars. Must really be hurting their sales. I also noticed there was a 10 dollar price drop last week.

Still passing.