Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[Implode]

Yeah it just has to be better than the prequels. It's already a winner !

The bar is so low for me, it's a guarantee that I won't be disappointed. That's what I'm most excited about.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah it just has to be better than the prequels. It's already a winner !

The bar is so low for me, it's a guarantee that I won't be disappointed. That's what I'm most excited about.

In a way, yeah.

One thing that is a complete turn on for me (coming from growing up with the OT) is to catch up with the characters I loved from those films. 

No matter how good the prequels could have been, they wouldn't have given me what I wanted, which was what happened next to my beloved characters.  Some of the characters were present, sure, but not much suspense, because I already knew what happened later.

This will be completely new territory, with Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewbacca.

[Zantera]

Yeah it just has to be better than the prequels. It's already a winner !

The bar is so low for me, it's a guarantee that I won't be disappointed. That's what I'm most excited about.

In a way, yeah.

One thing that is a complete turn on for me (coming from growing up with the OT) is to catch up with the characters I loved from those films. 

No matter how good the prequels could have been, they wouldn't have given me what I wanted, which was what happened next to my beloved characters.  Some of the characters were present, sure, but not much suspense, because I already knew what happened later.

This will be completely new territory, with Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewbacca.

I think this is a big reason why the hype is so massive now and even bigger than it was for Phantom Menace. As much as people were excited about a new Star Wars movie then, now we have gone through 3 disappointing movies and we're finally getting to see what happened to our favorite characters. It's like Christmas!

[Orbert]

Will it be better than the original trilogy?  Well, nothing's impossible, but realistically No.  Nostalgia factor.
Will it be better than the prequel trilogy?  Again, nothing's impossible, but here it's almost certainly Yes.

That would seem to make it an almost guaranteed win.  But we're still talking about an established universe that everyone knows and no one will tolerate them fucking up.  And established characters.  With so many eyes on this and so many checks and balances in place, I don't think that will happen, either.  Just give me a good movie, one that shows respect for the established universe and characters, and the next chapter of the story, and because it's Star Wars, I'll probably like it.

Also, and this might sound stupid, but I trust Harrison Ford's judgement.  He didn't have to do this movie, and I'm sure he would not have if he read the script and he didn't like what they'd done with Han Solo.  After all the joking around, he seemed sincere when he said this was a great movie and we won't be disappointed.  That sounds good enough for me.

[hefdaddy42]

Me too.

[kaos2900]

So to get ready for Episode VII I'm watching one movie per week and will post a mini-review of each.

Started with Episode I on Friday and this movie has not aged well with me at all. I'm a defender of the prequels but this is easily the worst of the 6 films. I have no problem with the political story as it's pivotal to explain how Palapatine takes power but the first hour up until the pod race is BORING. And Jar Jar really is such a terrible character. I get what Lucas was going for with the funny character for little kids, I'm sure my 3 year old would love him, but the fact that he is really the focal point of the first hour really hurts the movie. I could have lived with him if he was a back ground character and not shoved down our throats. Also, Jake Lloyd is was a terrible kid actor. Most of them are but he is really bad. The climax of the film is good with the Jedi/Darth Maul fight but the gungan battle and lack of space fighting makes the movie end on a meh note. If this was the first Star Wars film there would not have been a second, that being said it is a Star Wars film and it really lays the foundation of the story. Weak acting, weak script, and weak directing really hurt the film. 2/5 stars.

[Zantera]

As terrible as The Phantom Menace is, I'd put Attack of the Clones lower. That one felt almost insulting sitting through.

[Implode]

I agree. At least TPM had had some exciting scenes among its nonsense. AOTC was just a miserably boring experience.

[BlobVanDam]

I disagree. While they're both awful, AOTC was entertainingly awful, at least enjoyable for all the wrong reasons. I find TPM to be literally unwatchable. It's a truly painful experience with no entertainment value to be had.

[Zantera]

I wonder how much it matters, the situation you experienced the prequels in. For example, I didn't see them in cinemas and being young, I wasn't born early enough to have experienced the old trilogy when it came out. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I didn't go into The Phantom Menace with 20 years of hopes and dreams and expectations for another awesome Star Wars movie, so my disappointment was more on the mild side. IMO I found teenage Anakin hitting on Padme and their forced love story much more frustrating to sit through than young Anakin doing goofy things. TPM also has a decent lightsaber battle at the end, whereas the fight between Anakin/Obi-Wan and Count Dooku is mostly nauseating.

[BlobVanDam]

No idea. I've only ever "liked" Star Wars, and didn't bother watching any of the prequels until someone lent then to me on DVD long after the fact. I didn't have any expectations or care going into any of them, but TPM is just a godawful movie no matter how you slice it. AOTC isn't much better. Nor is ROTS imo.

I genuinely believe the only way anyone can really like TPM is those who watched it as little kids and have some kind of unfortunate nostalgia for it.

[Zantera]

The few people I know who like the prequels are either people who grew up with them, or people who saw them first. OR people who don't care about screen writing, character depth, character motivation, plot etc and just enjoy CGI. (No offense if you like the prequels, this is just the experience I've had with the people I know)

As for TPM/AotC it really is a toss up. I don't think Revenge of the Sith is GREAT, but it's definitely better than the previous two, and it actually has a few redeemable parts. I'd say seeing Anakin turn to the dark side was quite enjoyable even if it felt a bit forced, and seeing him murder innocent children was satisfying in a weird way. The end lightsaber fight is probably the worst in the whole series and the movie goes overboard on the CGI, but it does a few things right to tie into the original trilogy. If TPM and AotC are around the 2/10 or 3/10 mark for me, I'd rate RotS as maybe a 5/10 or 6/10. It's still not a great movie by any stretch, but it has some decent parts.

[ariich]

While I do think TPM is pretty terrible, I still think your first paragraph there was horribly elitist Jimmy.

I like Attack of the Clones though. Still ranked 5th out of 6 for me, but waaaaaay ahead of Episode I and not all that far off episodes III, IV and VI, all of which I think are very good. For me, Empire Strikes Back is the only great film among them, but I do like it a lot as a series.

[Lucien]

and seeing him murder innocent children was satisfying in a weird way

what

[Zantera]

Hey now I don't judge. Personally I care about all the pieces of the puzzle, but I have friends who might only care about the visuals for example, and they don't pay attention to certain other things that I might notice. As long as you enjoy the movie it's nice I guess.

[hefdaddy42]

[Theory] Jar Jar Binks was a trained Force user, knowing Sith collaborator, and will play a central role in The Force Awakens

[Kotowboy]

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.

[TioJorge]

What in the fuck? That is awesome.  Read some of it whilst waiting for a download, and the crazy conspiracies aside, the comparisons to actual martial arts and the mind tricks 'hand waving' is neat. That's pretty creative right there. I like it! 

[Cool Chris]

I like Attack of the Clones though. Still ranked 5th out of 6 for me, but waaaaaay ahead of Episode I and not all that far off episodes III, IV and VI, all of which I think are very good. For me, Empire Strikes Back is the only great film among them, but I do like it a lot as a series.

I would say this about myself too, but edit it to say Ep5 is the only masterful film,, Ep4 being a great one. I enjoyed Ep2 in the theater, and I can enjoy it again as well. Ep1 feels like a backstory that could have been presented in the opening crawl of Ep2, and an uninteresting backstory at that.

[Phoenix87x]

I can sit all the way through Ep I and III.

Can't make it through II

Love Ep V beyond words, always found IV a little dry (but I still highly respect it) and VI is decent.

[orcus116]

I wonder how much it matters, the situation you experienced the prequels in. For example, I didn't see them in cinemas and being young, I wasn't born early enough to have experienced the old trilogy when it came out. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I didn't go into The Phantom Menace with 20 years of hopes and dreams and expectations for another awesome Star Wars movie, so my disappointment was more on the mild side. IMO I found teenage Anakin hitting on Padme and their forced love story much more frustrating to sit through than young Anakin doing goofy things. TPM also has a decent lightsaber battle at the end, whereas the fight between Anakin/Obi-Wan and Count Dooku is mostly nauseating.

Absolutely this. There is nothing in Episode 1 that you can point out and say it was worse than the atrocious love story from Episode 2. One other thing it has against it is that there is literally nothing memorable about the movie. At least Episode 1 had stuff like the pod-racing scene that makes it kind of unique. Episode 2 was just one boring unmemorable scene after another. It's not just a bad SW movie, it's a bad movie.

[kaos2900]

Interesting on the all of the dislike for Episode II. I can understand why the love story gets some flack, but at the same time it is Anakin's relationship with Padme that solidifies his path to the dark side. Could have been better, yes. George Lucas is just not a great director which is why the best Star Wars film is the one he didn't direct. I'll be watching AotC on Saturday and will post an updated opinion.

[Cool Chris]

George Lucas is just not a great director which is why the best Star Wars film is the one he didn't direct.

His not being a great screenwriter is more of the issue here. David Lean couldn't have done much with that script in terms of dialogue. The fact that he has admitted it freely makes it a shame he didn't bring in William Huyck and Gloria Katz, Kasdan, or someone more capable to strengthen the dialogue

...it is Anakin's relationship with Padme that solidifies his path to the dark side.

And the reason that relationship seems so silly and viewers can't buy in to it that makes his turn so weak.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oifhpT0HZ7Q

Rich Evans & Mike Stoklasa talk about The Force Awakens.

[Implode]

Came here to actually talk about that. Many of their predictions seem extremely likely, so I'm excited to see what the actual movie is about. Also, I agree with Rich in that they'd never resort to having an evil Luke. That just doesn't make sense nor would it be popular with the fanbase.

[Kotowboy]

Also I wouldn't be surprised if they did in fact copy the structure from A New Hope.



Speaking of " it's like poetry " - what was the " I Am Your Father " moment from Attack Of The Clones ?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I grew up with, like and respect the original trilogy...... but I love the prequels about a million times more. I think they've got the OT beat in every category except for the prequels having no answer to Han Solo's wit/charisma. To me, the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker is way more interesting than the story that the OT told.

[Kotowboy]

The acting is flat and wooden and emotionless.

The visuals are awful and over the top.

The plot is incomprehensible.

The directing is boring and extremely basic. Almost like a tv soap opera.

Meh. You're entitled to your opinion but the PT are just bad. Bad movies full stop.

[Zantera]

I think one of the biggest problems with the prequels is the failure with Anakin. They really screwed up a potentially good story.

Ever since A New Hope we heard about how Anakin was a good friend of Obi-Wan and a great Jedi. But the Anakin of the prequels was written like a bad apple from the start. When did he really show any of the qualities we heard about in the OT? He came off as whiny, hot headed, immature, and had almost zero character development. It's fascinating how they screwed up so bad in the first two that they had to remind us in the third movie that "this guy is good, this guy is a good pilot" and shove in good moments when all we had before were 2 movies of the opposite.

From what I've heard they did a better job of portraying him in Clone Wars, but that's an animated show that stands on its own. It has nothing to do with the failures of the prequels.

[Kotowboy]

It's fascinating how they screwed up so bad in the first two that they had to remind us in the third movie that "this guy is good, this guy is a good pilot" and shove in good moments when all we had before were 2 movies of the opposite.

I like the quote from the Plinkett review of Sith where he says " it's too late to disregard an entire backstory "   when Anakin randomly goes to help out a clone trooper.

[Zantera]

It's fascinating how they screwed up so bad in the first two that they had to remind us in the third movie that "this guy is good, this guy is a good pilot" and shove in good moments when all we had before were 2 movies of the opposite.

I like the quote from the Plinkett review of Sith where he says " it's too late to disregard an entire backstory "   when Anakin randomly goes to help out a clone trooper.

Definitely. He doesn't seem to show any concern for others in AotC and then all of a sudden he wants to save ONE clone trooper.

[hefdaddy42]

I grew up with, like and respect the original trilogy...... but I love the prequels about a million times more. I think they've got the OT beat in every category except for the prequels having no answer to Han Solo's wit/charisma. To me, the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker is way more interesting than the story that the OT told.

Hey, man, it takes all kinds.

[Orbert]

The tragedy of Anakin Skywalker is a good story.  The story itself was not the problem; it was the execution, the telling of the story, which sucked.  The dialogue, the pacing, the details.

[Kotowboy]

The tragedy of Anakin Skywalker is a good story.  The story itself was not the problem; it was the execution, the telling of the story, which sucked.  The dialogue, the pacing, the details.

And that the entire PT could have been summed up in 1 film. Phantom Menace & Attack Of The Clones are largely just filler.

[ariich]

I think one of the biggest problems with the prequels is the failure with Anakin. They really screwed up a potentially good story.

Ever since A New Hope we heard about how Anakin was a good friend of Obi-Wan and a great Jedi. But the Anakin of the prequels was written like a bad apple from the start. When did he really show any of the qualities we heard about in the OT? He came off as whiny, hot headed, immature, and had almost zero character development. It's fascinating how they screwed up so bad in the first two that they had to remind us in the third movie that "this guy is good, this guy is a good pilot" and shove in good moments when all we had before were 2 movies of the opposite.

From what I've heard they did a better job of portraying him in Clone Wars, but that's an animated show that stands on its own. It has nothing to do with the failures of the prequels.

While I agree that he was a bit too whiny and hot-headed, I don't think it's fair to say that he was just a bad apple. There were definite flaws in those 2 films, not least of which is the actors playing Anakin, but I think it's pretty clear that his heart was in the right place and that his actions were born of good intentions.