Why do you like Dream Theater? (And Progessive Rock/Metal in general)

[TheGreatPretender]

Doesn’t this kind of invalidate the whole rest of your argument? 

You’re basically saying that Ulver may be more diverse than Dream Theater but Dream Theater is still better.  If Ulver is more diverse, then by comparison with Ulver, Dream Theater is less diverse.  Which means that Dream Theater is not the pinnacle of diversity.

Maybe I’ve missed something, but your whole argument seems to have been that Dream Theater is the pinnacle of diversity.

By the way, I do think DT is diverse, and I've never heard of Ulver.  So it's not that I disagree with you, I'm just really confused about what your point is.

Well, I haven't listened to too much Ulver, so I can't say whether it is actually MORE diverse. The thing is, I don't really like their sound, so I'm not GONNA listen to them just to validate an argument, so I just kinda gave that one away.

It's more along the lines of, Dream Theater is the most diverse while still having an enjoyable sound. And that second part is definitely a matter of opinion. But I'm not gonna say that something is better just because it has more diversity, if I don't think the music itself is that good.

[Jaffa]

It's more along the lines of, Dream Theater is the most diverse while still having an enjoyable sound. And that second part is definitely a matter of opinion. But I'm not gonna say that something is better just because it has more diversity, if I don't think the music itself is that good.

Fair enough.  But the fact that the second part is based on opinion kinda ruins the first part.  To someone who only likes rap, maybe Eminem is 'the most diverse while still having an enjoyable sound.'  If you're limiting your scope of diversity to what you like, then you're really discussing what you like, not diversity.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, but everyone's got their own tastes. That can't be helped. I'm not saying I like DT because they are diverse because I like any and all bands who are diverse.
And they're still one of the most diverse bands out there. Relatively speaking, you can give me 50 bands that are more diverse than DT, but there's still 50,000 bands out there who are less diverse.

[Jaffa]

Right.  I really don't disagree with you.  I just wanted to point out the you've been debating for three pages to defend your stance that you like Dream Theater because they are the most diverse of all the bands that you like.   

[Heaven Outcry Angel]

Ulver are about a hundred times more musically diverse and eclectic than Dream Theater, and more talented and revolutionary composers

but their less technically good and only have a few songs over ten minuets so fuck them go DT

[Elaitch]

Ravenheart, you're right when you say anyone can write a 20-minute song. However, very few bands are talented enough to write a 20-minute song that you'll actually remember afterwards; that you will think was an interesting song to listen to and that you'd like to listen to again. I mean, I can write a 20-minute song consisting of a concise song structure but with a 13 minute instrumental section over one chord in the middle without much diversity. That song would probably have been better without the lenghty instrumental section, since no one wants to listen to the same riff or chord for 13 minutes, no matter what's going on over it.

Also, like you, I don't care much for "extravagant musicianship" in the sense of bands who show off their technical skills just because they can. Which is why I love Dream Theater, and most of their recent catalogue. Because saying that their recent music is all about extravagant musicianship is not correct. The reason why is that Dream Theater is not all about technical proficiency, but they actually manage to balance the extravaganza with strong riffs and concise song writing. They do not play extravagantly not only because they can, but mostly because it adds a flavour to their otherwise strong music. In contrast to for example technical death metal and the like. That's mostly just techincal to the point of awfulness, and for show.

[KevShmev]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Tool is somehow more than diverse than Dream Theater?  I mean, really? 

[TheGreatPretender]

Right.  I really don't disagree with you.  I just wanted to point out the you've been debating for three pages to defend your stance that you like Dream Theater because they are the most diverse of all the bands that you like.   

Well, the debate wasn't just about that. My debates tend to kind of grow and develop new topics as they go. That's why my debates are so awesome, you'll find like, 20 hour debates that are very progressive constantly changing into something different. They're much better than those 4 hour debates that dwell on the same thing.

[setrataeso]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Tool is somehow more than diverse than Dream Theater?  I mean, really? 

Well I think so.
I'm very much in a Tool-loving mood these days, and I keep discovering new things in their songs. The DT well has run dry for me as of late, so I will definitely say I love Tool more than DT and I think they are more diverse.

[Vajra]

Tool
Opeth
Mastodon
[/b]Lady Gaga
The Mars Volta
Shadow Gallery
Pure Reason Revolution

You claimed that even though DT does have a diverse range of songs, they all sound like typical Dream Theater. The same argument can be applied to the bands you listed above. To say they are far more innovative then DT is just extremely silly imo. They are diverse, I agree, but on a level equal to DT.

[KevShmev]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Tool is somehow more than diverse than Dream Theater?  I mean, really? 

Well I think so.
I'm very much in a Tool-loving mood these days, and I keep discovering new things in their songs. The DT well has run dry for me as of late, so I will definitely say I love Tool more than DT and I think they are more diverse.

What if you were in a DT-loving mood these days and still discovering new things in their songs, while the Tool well had run dry?  Would you still be saying right now that Tool is more diverse?  I doubt it.  In other words, I think the fact that you seem to be burned out on DT combined with the big Tool phase you are going is greatly influencing your current opinion.

[reneranucci]

Tool
Opeth
Mastodon
[/b]Lady Gaga
The Mars Volta
Shadow Gallery
Pure Reason Revolution

You claimed that even though DT does have a diverse range of songs, they all sound like typical Dream Theater. The same argument can be applied to the bands you listed above. To say they are far more innovative then DT is just extremely silly imo.

This. I mean, Opeth? Really? Shadow Gallery? Mastodon?

[setrataeso]

Yeah that's fine to you guys.
I can't really argue why, I just get a more diverse feel from those bands.
I suppose it might have something to do with liking them more, but even when Dream Theater was among my favourite bands, I never believed they had much variety.

But that's me. I'm not here to argue my tastes. I've done plenty of that.

[TheGreatPretender]

Wow... It's like, if I die tomorrow, I'll be alright because I believe that after I'm gone, the debate will carry on. Hahah.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Wow... It's like, if I die tomorrow, I'll be alright because I believe that after I'm gone, the debate will carry on. Hahah.

 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Tool is somehow more than diverse than Dream Theater?  I mean, really? 

You know, I love Tool. However, their sound isn't as diverse as Dream Theater (and this doesn't always mean a good thing). Tool has a very strong core sound they stray to, and it works wonders for them...but I wouldn't really call them more diverse than Dream Theater.

Just my two cents. Proceed, gentlemen.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Tool is somehow more than diverse than Dream Theater?  I mean, really? 

You know, I love Tool. However, their sound isn't as diverse as Dream Theater (and this doesn't always mean a good thing). Tool has a very strong core sound they stray to, and it works wonders for them...but I wouldn't really call them more diverse than Dream Theater.

Just my two cents. Proceed, gentlemen.

[Heaven Outcry Angel]

tool are nowhere near as diverse as Dream theater

however there are hundreds of other bands that are

[KevShmev]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Tool is somehow more than diverse than Dream Theater?  I mean, really? 

You know, I love Tool. However, their sound isn't as diverse as Dream Theater (and this doesn't always mean a good thing). Tool has a very strong core sound they stray to, and it works wonders for them...but I wouldn't really call them more diverse than Dream Theater.

And along those lines, if a band isn't diverse, but does one thing extremely well, is that really a bad thing?  I think not.  A band doesn't have to reinvent the wheel on every album to be good.  AC/DC (regardless of how much you might not like them) have had a long and very popular career by doing the same thing over and over and over...

[setrataeso]

Yep I agree.
I just personally find Tool more sonically diverse. Just my two cents.

[energythief]

I thought about posting here for a while, but was never motivated to. However, having just explained some of why I like "Home" in the Home Appreciate Thread, I started to realize what I like about bands like Dream Theater (and why I am not that interested in most other prog/metal):

1. Vocals: This is really a deal-breaker for me. I love unique voices, and I'm often hooked on just the vocals for the first dozen listens of a new album. Because it's such an immediate, visceral, personal reaction for me, I can't get past them - meaning bands like Opeth, Rush (and by extension Dream Theater's first album), or any of those heavily-accented european power metal singers don't stand a chance with me. This (and lyrics, below) accounts for some of my very diverse musical tastes.

2. Lyrics: I really respect well-written, clever lyrics by bands who know the power of words. (It's a prerequisite that I need to be able to understand the words, mostly. ) This is why I love They Might Be Giants and Electric Light Orchestra, as examples.

3. Music: I am not a musician. I don't play any instrument (though I've been starting and stopping beginner acoustic guitar "lessons" online for years). Having said that, I get bored with bands that seem to have one "schtick" or style. It's why bands like AC/DC, Nickleback or The Eagles just don't do it for me. I don't dislike them (in fact I really like individual tracks), but they will never be favorites. I like songs that I keep going back to and finding different things to listen to, or music that helps expand my horizons. This is one of my favorite things about bands like The Tea Party or The Dear Hunter - creative fearlessness.

4. Emotion & Drama: This to me is Lyrics + Music + a little something more - a sensibility that bands like Dream Theater, Queensryche and Pink Floyd usually seem to possess. I don't know if there is a more technical term for what I'm talking about, but it's that little bit of magic that turns a good song great. Again, as this is so personal, I'm sure everyone's definitions differ. As an example, it's why Shadow Gallery will never mean as much to me as Dream Theater, or why Incubus will never be as special as Faith No More. Cold, clinical music will never hold my attention.

5. The Extras: Finally, I love learning about the band as people. I love storytelling. I love concept albums. I love album art. I love all the little things peripheral to the music itself, and most of my favorite artists do something that resonates with me in a way that set them apart from the pack.

[tristl]

 
for me DT is just what i was always looking for(almost 40 years).
its komplex, but still heavy, very melodic but not cheesy.
The drums, bass guitar keys all perfect.
Very special for me the voice of JLB.
I read a lot of bad comments of DT fans about JLB,
i think he had problems with his voice for some time(especially live) but since live at budokan he is also live unbelievable.
i was in rome this monday(4th of juli), it was the best JLB i ever heard, it felt that he is almost relieved that MP is gone.
I was always a Portnoy fan but i always disliked his constant negativity about JLB.
I'm very excited to hear the new album.

[Perpetual Change]

Yep I agree.
I just personally find Tool more sonically diverse. Just my two cents.

Tool aren't diverse in the slightest! Have they written a song that isn't in D Minor yet?