Author Topic: If you could eliminate five Dream Theater songs, and never hear them again...  (Read 28840 times)

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Offline robwebster

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I'm not sure how Forsaken can wind people up that badly. It's a fairly middle-of-the-road rock song
You just answered yourself.  I mean, I don't have the hate for it that some others do, but I certainly don't have much love for it.  There just isn't much there to love (but I like JP's solo).
Oh, totally, and that's just grand. Don't blame anyone for not falling head-over-heels in love with it. But I don't get how it could provoke this...

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...amount of ire.

^ Nothing but the truth.

Nor this amount.

Offline yorost

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I believe others have made comments in the past that it got an extra bit of negative kick back because it was about Vampires.  At the time Vampires were the 'in' teen girls fad I guess.  It may not have been too popular released ten years earlier, but it might not have received the level of hate it does now.

Personally, Forsaken is one of the few songs on Systematic Chaos I really love.

Offline lateralus88

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First off, the chorus is just plain annoying to me. Secondly, meh.
I felt its length in quite a few places.

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Offline Lowdz

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I believe others have made comments in the past that it got an extra bit of negative kick back because it was about Vampires.  At the time Vampires were the 'in' teen girls fad I guess.  It may not have been too popular released ten years earlier, but it might not have received the level of hate it does now.

Personally, Forsaken is one of the few songs on Systematic Chaos I really love.

This. One of my favourite DT songs. I really couldn't care less what the lyrics are about. I love 80s hair metal FFS.

Offline Vajra

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I didn't say opinions get me angry, I said the idea that people aren't able to enjoy some songs gets me angry. When you really appreciate something, there's always the tendency to wish other people can appreciate as much as you. That's all I meant.
Yeah, but all I'm saying is, I guess the fact that you aren't able to enjoy Another Day and Hollow Years upset some people. So all's fair, right?
Yup, fair indeed.

Also, I'm suprised the two songs I mentioned are liked around here (not because they are bad in any way), I was under the assumption that they were amongst the less favorable DT songs for fans. I guess it's just because I've never heard anyone really discuss them before, so I've never heard anything positive from fans till this thread.

Offline taboune

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Straight up : These Walls  :loser:

I think that the band hate it too!

Offline The Silent Cody

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Straight up : These Walls  :loser:

I think that the band hate it too!
Oh, no way for me. It has perfect outro  :metal :metal but yes, DT does not like it so much anyway...

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Straight up : These Walls  :loser:

I think that the band hate it too!
Oh, no way for me. It has perfect outro  :metal :metal but yes, DT does not like it so much anyway...
I guess they got over their "Coldplay," and other douchy bands phase.  :lol
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Offline The Silent Cody

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Straight up : These Walls  :loser:

I think that the band hate it too!
Oh, no way for me. It has perfect outro  :metal :metal but yes, DT does not like it so much anyway...
I guess they got over their "Coldplay," and other douchy bands phase.  :lol
I hope so...  ;)

Offline Captainchaos204

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Pull me under
As I am
A Rite of Passage
Caught In a Web
The not piano and vocals version of Wither

Offline TheGreatPretender

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I hope so...  ;)
I mean, I actually like the song. There isn't a DT song I don't at least enjoy on some level. And even if it's inspired by Coldplay, or Muse, or another one of those blandness rock bands, it's still "Dream Theaterified" so in effect, made much better. I'd only be upset if that's what DT ended up turning into completely. But we've already seen that they haven't. So I'm at peace with These Walls and Never Enough.

Same with Black Clouds and Silver Linings. I enjoyed the album for what it was worth, but I didn't really like the overall direction DT was going. Systematic Chaos was a little more metal than their previous albums (ToT aside) and I liked it, but then Black Clouds got even grittier, and MP was trying to so screamy backup vocals on half the songs, and it was tolerable, but if it was a trend, and if it had kept going in that direction, then it would've turned DT into a band with a completely different style. And it sucks that MP thought it was the right direction to go. But alas, there was a dramatic turn of events and MP ended up leaving the band, and instead, we got On The Backs of Angels, so I guess all is well.
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Offline The Silent Cody

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I hope so...  ;)
I mean, I actually like the song. There isn't a DT song I don't at least enjoy on some level. And even if it's inspired by Coldplay, or Muse, or another one of those blandness rock bands, it's still "Dream Theaterified" so in effect, made much better. I'd only be upset if that's what DT ended up turning into completely. But we've already seen that they haven't. So I'm at peace with These Walls and Never Enough.

Same with Black Clouds and Silver Linings. I enjoyed the album for what it was worth, but I didn't really like the overall direction DT was going. Systematic Chaos was a little more metal than their previous albums (ToT aside) and I liked it, but then Black Clouds got even grittier, and MP was trying to so screamy backup vocals on half the songs, and it was tolerable, but if it was a trend, and if it had kept going in that direction, then it would've turned DT into a band with a completely different style. And it sucks that MP thought it was the right direction to go. But alas, there was a dramatic turn of events and MP ended up leaving the band, and instead, we got On The Backs of Angels, so I guess all is well.
I like the direction that DT take on BC&SL. A Nightmare To Remember is for me the best heavy Dream Theater song, A Rite Of Passage has great instrumental part, Wither is nice rock ballad, The Best Of Times has one of the best JP's solo, The Shattered Fortress is crushing, The Count Of Tuscany is genius, pure ;)

Offline TheGreatPretender

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I like the direction that DT take on BC&SL. A Nightmare To Remember is for me the best heavy Dream Theater song, A Rite Of Passage has great instrumental part, Wither is nice rock ballad, The Best Of Times has one of the best JP's solo, The Shattered Fortress is crushing, The Count Of Tuscany is genius, pure ;)

Well, the overall tone was okay. I like Metal, so I have no problem with "Heavy" but at the same time, I wouldn't want it to go further than that. I wouldn't want DT to become a Thrash band, or god forbid, a Metalcore band, that would be horrible.

But I dunno, BCSL was kind of contradictory, because yeah, on the one hand, you have this total balls heavy song like Nightmare to Remember, but on the other hand, The Best of Times, apart from the amazing intro, and the awesome solo, the riffs themselves sounded almost a little Punk Rockish, in that Green Day sort of way, and I hated that. The only thing that ended up redeeming that was the subject matter of the song, seeing as how it came out right around the time my own father died. So it meant a lot to me. But the overall sound of the music on the verse parts, and even the vocals on the verses weren't that good. It was kinda stale.

The Count of Tuscany is a classic and will remain one for me. But I'm really glad that DT is back on track in terms of having their true Progressive Metal sound that they became famous for in the first place. And I'm REALLY glad that I won't be hearing MP on backup vocals anymore.
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Offline Metabog

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I don't think I hate any songs enough to wish they never existed, but if I HAD to choose 5 songs to not exist...

Raw Dog
Prophets of War
Take The Time (I just never find myself listening to it, I know most Mangini instantly when they hear the intro)
Wait For Sleep (tough choice because I like the piano melody but it's just not much of an actual song)
Through My Words

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Wait For Sleep (tough choice because I like the piano melody but it's just not much of an actual song)
Neither is Vacant though. I'd take Wait for Sleep over Vacant.
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Offline Elaitch

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I'm just gonna go with the five least played DT tracks in my iTunes library, excluding live tracks and bonus CDs. Apparently I can do without those since I barely listen to them.

With no joint order:
1. Only A Matter of Time
2. The Ones Who Help Set the Sun
3. Afterlife
4. Light Fuse and Get Away
5. The Killing Hand

DISCLAIMER: I listened through When Dream and Day Unite once, and it was better than I had imagined. It changed my view of early DT, making me understand they were actually more refined from the beginning than I'd thought. However, I'd take that experience with me and happily scrap most of the debut album.

Also, apparently it's a thing to hate on Constant Motion. I don't get it. It's grossly underrated in my opinion.


Offline Dellers

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Straight up : These Walls  :loser:

I think that the band hate it too!
Oh, no way for me. It has perfect outro  :metal :metal but yes, DT does not like it so much anyway...
I guess they got over their "Coldplay," and other douchy bands phase.  :lol
And thanks for that. Coldplay is honestly my absolute least favorite musical act of all time. That band has nothing that I'm looking for in music, they're not grooving on any level.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Also, apparently it's a thing to hate on Constant Motion. I don't get it. It's grossly underrated in my opinion.
I agree. It's not exactly classic DT, but it's a fast and intense song, and I dunno, I really like something about it. It's just got great energy.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline Vajra

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Also, apparently it's a thing to hate on Constant Motion. I don't get it. It's grossly underrated in my opinion.
I agree. It's not exactly classic DT, but it's a fast and intense song, and I dunno, I really like something about it. It's just got great energy.
I'm not much of a fan for the song, but holy crap it was one of the best songs I've ever experienced live. At home it's just a fun song to listen to imo, nothing more, but at a live showing, it's a fucking powerhouse. The only song I heard live that matches Constant Motion was the heavy section of Endless Sacrifice, and Master of Puppets.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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I'm not much of a fan for the song, but holy crap it was one of the best songs I've ever experienced live. At home it's just a fun song to listen to imo, nothing more, but at a live showing, it's a fucking powerhouse. The only song I heard live that matches Constant Motion was the heavy section of Endless Sacrifice, and Master of Puppets.
It's great to listen to on the road as well. In the car... "My wheels in constant motion" indeed.
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Offline toro

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Straight up : These Walls  :loser:

I think that the band hate it too!
Oh, no way for me. It has perfect outro  :metal :metal but yes, DT does not like it so much anyway...
I guess they got over their "Coldplay," and other douchy bands phase.  :lol
These Walls = Coldplay? Since when or what am i missing?
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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These Walls = Coldplay? Since when or what am i missing?

MP said in an interview that a lot of the sound for Octavarium was inspired by softer bands like Coldplay and U2.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline Jamesman42

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These Walls = Coldplay? Since when or what am i missing?

MP said in an interview that a lot of the sound for Octavarium was inspired by softer bands like Coldplay and U2.

yeah, but These Walls sounding like Coldplay? Hahahaha

Offline TheGreatPretender

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yeah, but These Walls sounding like Coldplay? Hahahaha
Well, I did say "other douchy bands" I can't really pinpoint what These Walls was inspired by.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline Nekov

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Blind Faith (I like to pretend this song doesnt exist)


Why? What don't you like about it?
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Offline Matt7

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1) Burning my soul
2) Constant motion
3) You not me
4) prophets of war
5) never enough


Offline DJay32

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I'm going strictly by the idea that I have to choose five songs, because I really end up loving each and every Dream Theater song I listen to.

"Lifting Shadows off a Dream." I mean, I love Myung, and I really want to hear more from him, but I found this to just.. ah. It's not a very... ear-grabbing song. To me. It's just a ballad that hasn't aged well in terms of the mix. I do love how, for a lot of the song, John Petrucci is pretty much just playing his own thing. :3

"Lie." If this song didn't exist, "The Mirror" would have a proper ending and my playlist of the Twelve-Step Suite wouldn't start off with a prelude that abruptly cuts to static instead of ending.

"The Spirit Carries On," so Metropolis would have gotten a satisfying climax. So Nicholas spends days investigating a murder from a past life in what was basically Inception ten years early, and he's finally gonna get some answers, but then this song shows up. This song, which is almost literally just "Oh hey, don't worry about the murder. Just go home." "Oh. Okay." Then they gave Nicholas that sour grapes justification of giving up, "Oh, I guess it's okay, I mean.. her spirit's carried on, hasn't it?" Instead of this song, I would have loved Nicholas actually.. doing something. A climax. Or, hell, if they had to keep this, make the spirit-carries-on motif a bit more.. y'know, prominent? Maybe change up the ending so we get an epilogue of a next-generation Nicholas, whose spirit has carried on? But I'm nitpicky.

"I Walk Beside You." I mean, I loved Octavarium, especially the actual album (if the title track wasn't the conceptual centerpiece, I'd have put it in this spot), and this song's quite fantastic, but where does it fit into the Octavarium? The song's saying "Hey, don't worry, I'm here for you." ..where's the cycle, the thing the character is trapped in? Hey, y'know what would have been great? If "I Walk Beside You" was replaced with "The Spirit Carries On." That way, Metropolis would have gotten a good climax, and we'd have a proper cycle-based song here. If "The Spirit Carries On" isn't in the right key, I'm sure the band could, like.. write a random interlude halfway through that is. Y'know, make the song progress for once.

"The Ministry of Lost Souls." Like "Lifting Shadows off a Dream," I just.. can't get into this. I mean, the extended instrumental section's nice, but it reminds me of that of "Endless Sacrifice," which.. well, I just preferred it!

..in case you can't tell, I'm not the biggest fan of "The Spirit Carries On." But still. Think about my suggestion. Metropolis ending with Nicholas finding out about the Miracle's secret, then we'd have a third act which would consist of his search for the Miracle. There'd be all these nuggets throughout the act about "Open your eyes" and connections between the Miracle and the Hypnotist, but Nicholas wouldn't pick up on them, so around the end, he'd just go home, defeated. He'd put some music on, pour a drink, sit in a rocking chair, then you'd hear footsteps and "Open your eyes, Nicholas." Whether this would end as normal or with an epic lightsaber duel is entirely up to the band. AND "The Spirit Carries On" would be in Octavarium, while "I Walk Beside You" would probably just be a B-side.

Think about it. >_>

Offline i am fabio

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Hey i agree man you make some nice points. TSCO wouldnt really be in my top 50 either, the only good part is the guitar solo.

Offline KevShmev

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Also, apparently it's a thing to hate on Constant Motion. 

It deserves any and all hate it gets.

I guess they got over their "Coldplay," and other douchy bands phase.  :lol

LOL indeed, but at your silly douchy band comment more than anything else.  I am not a big Coldplay fan at all (loved their last album, but am meh on all of their other stuff), but calling them a douchy band just makes you sound like you are 10.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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LOL indeed, but at your silly douchy band comment more than anything else.  I am not a big Coldplay fan at all (loved their last album, but am meh on all of their other stuff), but calling them a douchy band just makes you sound like you are 10.

Yeah, I guess... Let's just call it Whiny Bullcrap. And that's not me, that's family guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDvrYstFtE
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Offline KevShmev

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Oh, well if Family Guy said it, it must be true. :rollin :rollin

Offline j

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The Best of Times
You Not Me
Prophets of War
Raw Dog
Burning My Soul

Runners up: Panic Attack and Never Enough

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Offline bucksanchez51

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Wait for Sleep
Burning My soul
Space Dye Vest
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
Through Her Eyes

Offline manticore999

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How about the last 5 albums, instead of 5 songs?  Actually, just the last 4.  6DOIT was brilliant, but after that it was all down hill, culminating in the disaster that was BCSL. The new album sounds promising, though, based on the song that was realeased.  Looking forward to it.

Offline smerfak

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How about the last 5 albums, instead of 5 songs?  Actually, just the last 4.  6DOIT was brilliant, but after that it was all down hill, culminating in the disaster that was BCSL. The new album sounds promising, though, based on the song that was realeased.  Looking forward to it.
Can we please try to avoid such statements? I mean ok, You don't like these albums but claiming that "after that [6doit] it was all down hill, culminating in the disaster that was BCSL" is a little to much. I love ToT and Octavarium, I really like SC and I think that many people do. I don't like BCSL but I'd never call it disaster ;| I know it's only Your opinion but You wrote it as it was a commonly known fact or something..
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