On the Backs of Angels Thread

[Psy]

You are tearing me apart, DTF!

[Hayden]

You are tearing me apart, DTF!

I was just waiting for this .

[Edan the Man]

Has that OtBoA artwork actually been confirmed anywhere besides Amazon? I couldn't find any other news related to it, and I don't see why Amazon should be taken 100% at their word when there's random stuff like this floating around: https://www.amazon.ca/Welcome-Reality-Dream-Theater/dp/B005974CDU/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1312160537&sr=8-14

If it is the real deal though, I am disappoint 

[TL]

Hey, Welcome Reality is down to $17.99. At this rate, I may get that instead of OTBoA.

[darkshade]

You are tearing me apart, DTF!

[The Silent Cody]

Hey, Welcome Reality is down to $17.99. At this rate, I may get that instead of OTBoA.

Do it, now! 

[duncan3dc]

Just received an email about my pre-order for the box set, it included a link to an mp3 download of On the Backs of Angels. Still has the audible click during the 'american dream' line   

[BlackInk]

Does any of those crazy numbers on the big screen during OtBoA live have anything to do with the lyrical content or is it just a cool thing? Or is the song about the Matrix?

[emtee]

After a couple weeks to settle in and many repeated listens, I think this is one of DT's best songs in many years.
Absolutely fantastic. If the rest of the album is this strong it could end up being a top 3 album for me.

[ReaPsTA]

Does any of those crazy numbers on the big screen during OtBoA live have anything to do with the lyrical content or is it just a cool thing? Or is the song about the Matrix?

It's about the stock market crash.  There's even one image of the Wall Street road sign.

[BlackInk]

It's about the stock market crash.  There's even one image of the Wall Street road sign.

Aw... I was rooting for Matrix. But okey, stock market crash sounds good and I guess it does qualify as a dramatic turn of events so it makes sense. Reap, you pass my test of logics.

[metropofreak]

Just got the OTBOA single emailed to me from the DT store, and the mix is soooooo good!

[ReaPsTA]

Just got the OTBOA single emailed to me from the DT store, and the mix is soooooo good!

Wait, what?  How did this work?

[GasparXR]

Do you mean an actual mp3 single? If so, link please.

[metropofreak]

I pre-ordered the deluxe edition and so they emailed me a code to redeem it off the net before the release of the single  

EDIT: The code only works once

[GasparXR]

I pre-ordered the deluxe edition and so they emailed me a code to redeem it off the net before the release of the single   

EDIT: The code only works once

>.> Well, they announced it would be released IIRC on August 14th... Not that big of a deal, it's just a proper version of the song.

[metropofreak]

I pre-ordered the deluxe edition and so they emailed me a code to redeem it off the net before the release of the single   

EDIT: The code only works once

>.> Well, they announced it would be released IIRC on August 14th... Not that big of a deal, it's just a proper version of the song.

Maybe not a big deal, but still worth mentioning how good the mix is when not on youtube.

[Groundhog]

I have to disagree on the sound. The mp3 sounds a bit better than the youtube version. There's more clarity and weight to it. The downside is that is just as squashed dynamically as the youtube version. The drums get buried once the heavy riff comes and stays buried, there's no difference in volume between the verses and choruses, it lacks low end and punch, soundstage is small, there's hissing sound on vocals.... etc.

If you liked the sound of SC and BC&SL you'll probably like this as the mix IS better, but if you expect a dynamic sound you'll be disappointed.

[RazielSR]

If you liked the sound of SC and BC&SL you'll probably like this as the mix IS better, but if you expect a dynamic sound you'll be disappointed.

And how do you know that?

[Liberation]

I remember I was disappointed when they released the A Rite of Passage video since it was quite... unimpressive for me (the song grew on me over time though, now I like it), but On the Back of Angels is really good. It feels like DT to the core but... clearly something new. And it was really amazing live, especially the chorus feels like intended just for playing live. I've no worries about the album now.

[Groundhog]

If you liked the sound of SC and BC&SL you'll probably like this as the mix IS better, but if you expect a dynamic sound you'll be disappointed.

And how do you know that?

That probably sounded like I've heard the album. I haven't. That's just my opinion about the mix I got from the better quality mp3 of OTBOA. So I conclude that the rest of the album will be on the same level considering the mix and dynamics. It is now clear that the lack of dynamic range wasn't caused by youtube. The CD of course will have better resolution, but the mp3 is most likely from the same master and MP3 compression doesn't affect dynamic range. Thus it will sound squashed even on the CD. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong when the album comes out.

If you didn't have problem with the lack of dynamic range with SC and BC&SL you'll probably like the sound of the new album as the mix IMO based on OTBOA is better.

If you had a problem with the lack of dynamics on SC and BC&SL you'll probably be disappointed in the sound of the new album even if the mix is better.

That's my reasoning behind it.

[BlackInk]

But the music will still be good despite the sound... right? *huggin my teddy bear in hope*

[Groundhog]

I really like OTBOA and BITS teaser. The music will still be good, but it just won't have the impact that it could have. And it is harder to listen to. Killing of the dynamic range not only affects the sound quality but more importantly it kills the feel, nuances and liveliness of the music. It makes it stale. All that takes the music and my enjoyment of the music a notch down no matter how good the music is.

[minstrel]

I really like OTBOA and BITS teaser. The music will still be good, but it just won't have the impact that it could have. And it is harder to listen to. Killing of the dynamic range not only affects the sound quality but more importantly it kills the feel, nuances and liveliness of the music. It makes it stale. All that takes the music and my enjoyment of the music a notch down no matter how good the music is.

Thanks for giving us your impressions on the sound of the OTBOA mp3!

I wonder where exactly does this leave us with all of the comments of band members on recent interviews that keep stating how great the dynamics on the new album sound. I guess they did indeed use certain levels of compression on this album, which I perceive is a standard in modern music production. But I don't believe this automatically means we will get a 'wall of sound' on this CD, and highly doubt all this talk about "great dynamics" was just a big lie; in fact, even from what I can here from the streaming version of OTBOA sounds quite dynamic to me (first time I raised the volume quite a bit at the silent beginning, just to be blown away when the song really kicked in).

While I certainly agree that the loudness war has grown to very bad proportions recently (which also made SC sound quite flat to me), I feel it is also wrong to throw every perceived instance of compression into the same bag and label it as "killing the dynamics". I believe there are more factors involved of how dynamic the music sounds than just the fact whether compression has been used to certain degrees or not. I believe the band's decision in going back to a more melodic approach in writing music in contrast to the recent "it got BALLS!" one, JLB having his vocals recorded with a dedicated vocal producer and Andy Wallace having brought in for the mix will all have a big influence of how this album sounds compared to SC and BCASL. In any case, I will wait for the final product with my verdict.

[BlobVanDam]

It sounds dynamic to me. But I'm basing that on listening to it, and not opening it up in Adobe Audition and looking at a line.

[ariich]

It sounds dynamic to me. But I'm basing that on listening to it, and not opening it up in Adobe Audition and looking at a line.

Yeah seriously, the dynamics are fine, I think Groundhog probably just dislikes modern production in general.

[tri.ad]

They're definitely better than on the last two albums, imo. And BCASL's could have been worse, I'd like to say.

[Groundhog]

I really like OTBOA and BITS teaser. The music will still be good, but it just won't have the impact that it could have. And it is harder to listen to. Killing of the dynamic range not only affects the sound quality but more importantly it kills the feel, nuances and liveliness of the music. It makes it stale. All that takes the music and my enjoyment of the music a notch down no matter how good the music is.

Thanks for giving us your impressions on the sound of the OTBOA mp3!

I wonder where exactly does this leave us with all of the comments of band members on recent interviews that keep stating how great the dynamics on the new album sound. I guess they did indeed use certain levels of compression on this album, which I perceive is a standard in modern music production. But I don't believe this automatically means we will get a 'wall of sound' on this CD, and highly doubt all this talk about "great dynamics" was just a big lie; in fact, even from what I can here from the streaming version of OTBOA sounds quite dynamic to me (first time I raised the volume quite a bit at the silent beginning, just to be blown away when the song really kicked in).

I don't think they have exactly been talking about the sound of the album. All I've heard they say is that the mix is dynamic or that the compositions are extremely dynamic. Not once I've heard they refer to the mastering or to the actual sound of the album directly. Maybe they forgot to inform the mastering engineer. 

SC, BC&SL and OTBOA all have similar dynamic range. SC just a tad less. So if we are going by the range of OTBOA the macrodynamics will not be better. It does sound better because of the more balanced mix so every instrument is more easily heard. The only dynamic shifts are between the intro and the start of the song and the piano break. Beside those moments the instruments are fighting for space. There is a reason why some people think that the drums are too low in the mix. IMO it has nothing to do with the mix. With that kind of dynamic range it is impossible for the drums to properly shine trough. That's why they get buried once the distorted guitars kick in.

This kind of dynamic range is just damage control. Just a couple of dBs less and we'd be closer to that of Death Magnetic. When DT is being squeezed in to a smaller space than Pantera's Fucking hostile then that's definately going for the loudness, not quality. Just think about it. The epic Count of Tuscany has smaller dynamic range than Fucking hostile which is balls to the wall throughout. That just doesn't make sense and certainly it doesn't do justice to the dynamic nature of DT's music. Actually Fucking hostile has better dynamic range than almost anything DT has put out after Awake.

It sounds dynamic to me. But I'm basing that on listening to it, and not opening it up in Adobe Audition and looking at a line.

Yeah seriously, the dynamics are fine, I think Groundhog probably just dislikes modern production in general.

Blob are you implying that I don't form my opinion based on what I hear? 

I do have my issues with modern production, but most of them are minor things and I can live with them. The only thing I really dislike is the lack of dynamics. Whether you hear the problem with that or not is subjective as all these comments show. But no one can deny that the dynamic range has shrunk to almost nothing during the last 20 years. That is measurable. We are at a point that we can't really go any louder. The digital format's limit 0dB can't be crossed. Death Magnetic range was 3 or 4 db. The latest DT albums 6dB and by the looks of it we can put ADTOE in to that range too.

After all this critique I thought I'd give an example about modern album that sounds great. Listen to the latest Blackfield - Welcome to my dna. Steven Wilson usually gets praise about sound quality and most of the albums he's associated with has better dynamic range than what is the norm nowadays. Coincidence? I don't think so. Oh and that Blackfield has twice the dynamic range than OTBOA. It's like they went back in time and mastered it in the early nineties.

[BlobVanDam]

Stop quoting out numbers for a minute and compare it side by side to other DT albums.
From actually listening, it's more compressed than SFAM, about level with SDOIT (although it breathes a bit more imo thanks to the drier mix), it's less compressed than ToT by a lot, comparable to Octavarium (I'm comparing one song to an entire album here, so it varies), less compressed by SC by a fair bit, and less compressed than BCASL by a fair bit.
So this puts it better or at least equal to any other DT album of the past decade, to my ears.

Dynamic compression is not constantly getting worse. It's all over the board, but it's remained about level for a decade overall. And I'm sick of people mentioning Death Magnetic, as it's a false example. DM's problems go well beyond mere compression, but now it's the martyr doomsday scenario mascot for dynamic compression. I'm not saying that means modern music isn't more compressed than it really needs to be, but it's dynamic compression ffs, not global warming.

[Heretic]

BVD, I'm pretty sure you're my favorite poster at this forum.

And yeah, I agree, the sound is about on par with SDOIT imo, dynamic enough for me.

[Psy]

It could be worse. It could be like Redemption's Snowfall on Judgement Day.

*shudders*

[Groundhog]

I did remember that you hate quoting numbers. Sorry.

Ok, Blob here goes.

A fair bit less compressed than BC&SL and a fair bit less compressed than SC
Less compressed than Octavarium
Slightly less compressed than TOT
Slightly more compressed than 6DOIT
A fair bit more compressed than SFAM

Hey were practically agreeing on this. For me it's right behind 6DOIT. Looking at it this way makes me feel better for the sound for sure.

It could be worse. It could be like Redemption's Snowfall on Judgement Day.

*shudders*

That's very much true. Even SC is better than some of the stuff that's out there.

[ReaPsTA]

You guys keep talking about how things are more or less compressed, even though it's a more complicated process than that.  SC for example isn't that highly compressed, but it is intensely limited.  BCSL on the other hand has barely any limiting, but tons and tons of compression (on the main disc at least).

[Kotowboy]

It's 7.8.2011 in the UK and I am downloading OTBoA

[Kotowboy]

It could be worse. It could be like Redemption's Snowfall on Judgement Day.

*shudders*

Death Magnetic