On the Backs of Angels Thread

[Bacong]

The whole argument that "it sounds like DT" is an insult to the band hinges on the idea that he was faking his like of DT in the past. Yeah, this isn't reaching at all.

No, it hinges on the idea that a lot of the criticism DT gets from people is in the form of "well, that sure is a Dream Theater song."

The only way you can infer that it is positive is because he supposedly likes DT. I'm just saying; if I liked a song, and am aware of the fanbase and how they are perceived and what their criticisms are (which MP assuredly is), I wouldn't come out and say "and it sounds exactly.....like DT" and then go on to praise Mike Portnoy.

[TheGreatPretender]

You know what though. Who really cares? He thinks it sounds like DT... Now, let's say that's not a good thing in his eyes. Let's say he thinks, "Oh, it just sounds like the same ol' DT. They should do a thrash album, cause that's more metulz!"
Do we really care about what people like that think? If people don't feel DT's music, then screw em. The simple fact is, if DT had done something extremely new with this album, then all of us here would be saying, "Well, it's new, and it's different, and I like it... But it's just not DT."
And THAT would be a bad thing. I don't want NOT DT. There are thousands of bands out there I could listen to if I want to listen to not DT. But you know, I need a fix of new DT in my life, every two years. That's all it comes down to.

So if he says, "Same ol DT, not doing anything new," and he thinks it's a bad thing, then screw him. He should go listen to some new Metalcore crap. Or HIM.

Besides, "Sounds like DT" is arguably a contradictory statement. Yes, there might be a certain way JP plays his guitar, or a certain signature way JR plays the keyboards, or LaBrie's unique vocal quality, but in terms of music itself, is there really a DT sound? Because I recall hearing every DT album and saying, "Man, this sounds really different from their others stuff."

[Bacong]

We wouldn't be here arguing about this had he said that, because I&W is one of their most popular albums.

Also, the song has a definite Pull Me Under vibe.

I&W being popular doesn't mean he would still think it's their best album; and OTBOA having the Pull Me Under vibe is once again subjective (I think it does, you think it does, some other people think it does but at the same time other people don't).

Yeah but like I said my point is there wouldn't be much left for interpretation had he said that. I would assume it was positive; at the very least non-negative. He had a very blase reaction to the song. I've never seen "Sounds like ___" used in a positive way, have you? Anytime I see it, it's a negative, and towards a band that has a similar output most of the time. I also see it amended with a "but that's not a bad thing" from time to time.

[GasparXR]

Has anyone taken into consideration that MP may have misunderstood ET's tweet, which is why he later removed it? Besides which, if we can't figure out what he meant, why are we still trying?

We wouldn't be here arguing about this had he said that, because I&W is one of their most popular albums.

Also, the song has a definite Pull Me Under vibe.

I&W being popular doesn't mean he would still think it's their best album; and OTBOA having the Pull Me Under vibe is once again subjective (I think it does, you think it does, some other people think it does but at the same time other people don't).

Yeah but like I said my point is there wouldn't be much left for interpretation had he said that. I would assume it was positive; at the very least non-negative. He had a very blase reaction to the song. I've never seen "Sounds like ___" used in a positive way, have you? Anytime I see it, it's a negative, and towards a band that has a similar output most of the time. I also see it amended with a "but that's not a bad thing" from time to time.

I'm not sure if it's positive or negative because we can't very well damn tell, and I'm not trying to form an answer based on little information besides my experiences. It would be much easier to tell if there was tone of voice involved rather than letters.

[ehra]

We wouldn't be here arguing about this had he said that, because I&W is one of their most popular albums.

The only reason we're arguing about this is because people are going out of their way to look for things to get upset over. Like I said, the only way what he said could be an insult is if you assume he secretly never liked DT to begin with. And if that were the case saying it sounds like I&W would still have been an insult coming from him.

As for the MM comment, regardless of if it were intended a slight or not I get the feeling that MM himself would agree with the sentiment.


And I'm still not buying any of this "it sounds like I&W/PMU." If anything I'd say it sounds like something off of SDOIT.

No, it hinges on the idea that a lot of the criticism DT gets from people is in the form of "well, that sure is a Dream Theater song."

Then how would saying it sounds like I&W be any different? It's still the exact same "criticism" if you're going to take it negatively. The only reason to take it as an insult is if you already feel there's something inherently negative about saying the song sounds like DT in general (or modern DT, I'm getting the feeling).

[Bacong]

I've already explained why that could be perceived as a negative, and the fact that it has, dozens and dozens of times in my own experience. Saying it sounds like I&W is probably a bad example, whatever -- at least it's more descriptive.

[KevShmev]

You know what though. Who really cares? He thinks it sounds like DT... Now, let's say that's not a good thing in his eyes. Let's say he thinks, "Oh, it just sounds like the same ol' DT. They should do a thrash album, cause that's more metulz!"
Do we really care about what people like that think?

I suspect that most wouldn't have given a crap had Portnoy not retweeted it.

Besides, "Sounds like DT" is arguably a contradictory statement. Yes, there might be a certain way JP plays his guitar, or a certain signature way JR plays the keyboards, or LaBrie's unique vocal quality, but in terms of music itself, is there really a DT sound?  

Yes.

[Bacong]

Has anyone taken into consideration that MP may have misunderstood ET's tweet, which is why he later removed it? Besides which, if we can't figure out what he meant, why are we still trying?

Yes. It's entirely possible. I mentioned that he may have misread it a few pages back.

[ehra]

I've already explained why that could be perceived as a negative, and the fact that it has, dozens and dozens of times in my own experience. Saying it sounds like I&W is probably a bad example, whatever -- at least it's more descriptive.

It wouldn't matter, because you guys have already decided that either:

1) He secretly dislikes DT.

2) DT sounding like DT is in of itself a criticism.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that a lot of the people who think his comment was an insult are also people who have been less than satisfied with DT's recent albums. The reason saying it sounds like I&W would immediately be thought of as positive and "it sounds like DT" negative is because "it sounds like DT" brings to mind their more recent albums, and someone who doesn't think too highly of them and would prefer a return to the "I&W days" would think of the comment as negative.

[GasparXR]

Has anyone taken into consideration that MP may have misunderstood ET's tweet, which is why he later removed it? Besides which, if we can't figure out what he meant, why are we still trying?

Yes. It's entirely possible. I mentioned that he may have misread it a few pages back.

I guess I missed it then, with the 3 posts per second and whatnot

I've already explained why that could be perceived as a negative, and the fact that it has, dozens and dozens of times in my own experience. Saying it sounds like I&W is probably a bad example, whatever -- at least it's more descriptive.

It wouldn't matter, because you guys have already decided that either:

1) He secretly dislikes DT.

2) DT sounding like DT is in of itself a criticism.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that a lot of the people who think his comment was an insult are also people who have been less than satisfied with DT's recent albums. The reason saying it sounds like I&W would immediately be thought of as positive and "it sounds like DT" negative is because "it sounds like DT" brings to mind their more recent albums, and someone who doesn't think too highly of them would initially think of the comment as negative.

Well this is the Dream Theater fanbase, we're all opinionated dickbags here.

[Bacong]

[KevShmev]

I interpret Trunk's tweet as meaning, "It sounds like just another run-of-the-mill DT song," which is his way of agreeing with Portnoy's assessment that the band needed to take a break, but without actually coming out and saying it.

[Bacong]

I've already explained why that could be perceived as a negative, and the fact that it has, dozens and dozens of times in my own experience. Saying it sounds like I&W is probably a bad example, whatever -- at least it's more descriptive.

It wouldn't matter, because you guys have already decided that either:

1) He secretly dislikes DT.

2) DT sounding like DT is in of itself a criticism.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that a lot of the people who think his comment was an insult are also people who have been less than satisfied with DT's recent albums. The reason saying it sounds like I&W would immediately be thought of as positive and "it sounds like DT" negative is because "it sounds like DT" brings to mind their more recent albums, and someone who doesn't think too highly of them and would prefer a return to the "I&W days" would think of the comment as negative.

Yes, you have a legitimate point. I agree. But like I said, I can imagine someone saying "sounds like DT" to be a non-negative thing, but not positive. I've just never seen it used in that context without some sort of further comment.

[GasparXR]

I interpret Trunk's tweet as meaning, "It sounds like just another run-of-the-mill DT song," which is his way of agreeing with Portnoy's assessment that the band needed to take a break, but without actually coming out and saying it.

I'm pretty sure MP said he thought the relationships between the members, not the music, was getting stale.

[ehra]

I've already explained why that could be perceived as a negative, and the fact that it has, dozens and dozens of times in my own experience. Saying it sounds like I&W is probably a bad example, whatever -- at least it's more descriptive.

It wouldn't matter, because you guys have already decided that either:

1) He secretly dislikes DT.

2) DT sounding like DT is in of itself a criticism.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that a lot of the people who think his comment was an insult are also people who have been less than satisfied with DT's recent albums. The reason saying it sounds like I&W would immediately be thought of as positive and "it sounds like DT" negative is because "it sounds like DT" brings to mind their more recent albums, and someone who doesn't think too highly of them and would prefer a return to the "I&W days" would think of the comment as negative.

Yes, you have a legitimate point. I agree. But like I said, I can imagine someone saying "sounds like DT" to be a non-negative thing, but not positive. I've just never seen it used in that context without some sort of further comment.

He definitely wasn't being overtly positive about it, or else he'd just call the song great or something. I took it as meaning pretty much what Kev said; a mid road or run of the mill DT song which is pretty close to how I see it.

[Bacong]

Which is precisely why I found it silly that MP retweeted it. Sort of a "see? I was right!"

[KevShmev]

I interpret Trunk's tweet as meaning, "It sounds like just another run-of-the-mill DT song," which is his way of agreeing with Portnoy's assessment that the band needed to take a break, but without actually coming out and saying it.

I'm pretty sure MP said he thought the relationships between the members, not the music, was getting stale.

Doesn't it go without saying that, if the relationship between the band members gets stale, so will the music?

[ClairvoyantCat]

Not necessarily.  I can think of some bands who've done their best work while the members weren't really getting along/becoming detached. 

[Bertielee]

Which is precisely why I found it silly that MP retweeted it. Sort of a "see? I was right!"

Has MP learned nothing over the past few months?

B.Lee

[GasparXR]

I interpret Trunk's tweet as meaning, "It sounds like just another run-of-the-mill DT song," which is his way of agreeing with Portnoy's assessment that the band needed to take a break, but without actually coming out and saying it.

I'm pretty sure MP said he thought the relationships between the members, not the music, was getting stale.

Doesn't it go without saying that, if the relationship between the band members gets stale, so will the music?

No, it doesn't. They are two very different things. He even said it himself at one point during an interview that all of their musical inspiration was there when they wrote the last two albums, when he was questioned about the staleness of the albums. While others may think they got stale, he obviously didn't think so.

[Bacong]

Not necessarily.  I can think of some bands who've done their best work while the members weren't really getting along/becoming detached. 

Yup. Abbey Road was recorded while the band was hardly a band anymore.

[jonny108]

Fleetwood Mac - Rumours too

[Darth Mitchell]

So am I a bad fan if I say I like the song? I can hear the work of JP, JM, JR and JLB but I'm not saying it sounds like the old DT. DT always try to do something new with their new albums and this sounds new. So I hope it won't dissapoint...

[Jaffa]

You know what though. Who really cares? He thinks it sounds like DT...

Yes, but arguing is like a vortex: no matter how little you care in the first place, once you start, it's easy to get sucked further and further in.

This conversation in a nutshell:

"That Tweet was negative."
"No it wasn't."
"Meh.  Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't."

Back and forth for a few pages, stretched out because of overreaction and overexplanation.

And yes, I absolutely am guilty of this.  Because it's fun.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, but the Beatles were one of those bands who were always going at it and trying to outdo the other (Lennon and McCartney were always trying to outdo the other in terms of songwriting).  Queen was the same way.  To my knowledge, Dream Theater has never been like that, so this is it not a black and white thing here.

[Bacong]

No it's not but you just insinuated it was with

Doesn't it go without saying that, if the relationship between the band members gets stale, so will the music?

[KevShmev]

No it's not but you just insinuated it was with

Doesn't it go without saying that, if the relationship between the band members gets stale, so will the music?

Perhaps, but that was more in reference to Dream Theater than it being a general statement.  I probably should have worded it better.  It is hard to imagine a band like DT sustaining their musical excellence if the core writing team isn't getting along as well.  That was pretty much what I meant (but didn't convey well).  

[Bacong]

Yeah that's what I figured.

[Öxölklöfför]

This is, in a nutshell, the reason why it's a bad idea to say and discuss things using text. If everyone in this thread would sit down and discuss this face to face, we would understand each other much better. Basically because of that text is too "simple" to discuss things involving emotions. (I think that the invention of smileys is a way to compensate for this)

[GasparXR]

Yet I only see emoticons here OUTSIDE of intense debate.

[j]

There's been a lot of misunderstanding, but the debate has been pretty civil and relatively un-emotional as far as I can tell.

-J

[Bacong]

This is, in a nutshell, the reason why it's a bad idea to say and discuss things using text. If everyone in this thread would sit down and discuss this face to face, we would understand each other much better. Basically because of that text is too "simple" to discuss things involving emotions. (I think that the invention of smileys is a way to compensate for this)

ban the internet!

[TheGreatPretender]

There's been a lot of misunderstanding, but the debate has been pretty civil and relatively un-emotional as far as I can tell.

-J

I'm just surprised it's STILL going on. Holy geez.

[Bacong]

Why does it matter that it's still going on?

[TheGreatPretender]

Why does it matter that it's still going on?

Because it was just such a small comment, and a small action to retweet it. And it's just surprising that people are still going on about it.