On the Backs of Angels Thread

[Jaffa]

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

If Eddie Trunk wanted to be complimentary, wouldn't he have said something complimentary that wasn't ambiguous and open to interpretation?

"Spinning the new DT single right now, they still have the DT touch.  MM's no MP, but he's definitely a monster!"

Under 140 characters, definitely positive.

But do you admit that what he did say could be interpreted as having that exact same meaning? 

[j]

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

[ariich]

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

If Eddie Trunk wanted to be complimentary, wouldn't he have said something complimentary that wasn't ambiguous and open to interpretation?

"Spinning the new DT single right now, they still have the DT touch.  MM's no MP, but he's definitely a monster!"

Under 140 characters, definitely positive.

If he wanted to take a dig, wouldn't he leave out the obviously positive stuff? I agree your wording is slightly better, if only because it might have avoided all this pretty bizarre speculation, but I'm not actually sure it would have helped. And really I don't see anything wrong with Trunk's wording as it is.

The only thing that is slightly ambiguous is MP's apparent retweeting of it, but I would have thought it was because of the compliment to him (we know how much MP likes to big himself up) rather than any dig at DT.

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

And as I've explained, I fail to see how someone WHO LIKES DT saying that THE SONG SOUNDS LIKE DT could possibly be an insult.

[Jaffa]

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

Your post sounds... like j.

Is that offensive to you?  :S

[ariich]

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

Your post sounds... like j.

Is that offensive to you?  :S

That depends on whether you like J's posts usually or not. I for one think he's an excellent poster, so if I said that then yeah obviously it would be a compliment.

But yeah that's not bad analogy actually, I think everyone knows how much I love robwebster's posts here. If he posted something and I said "typical Rob", I would HOPE that people didn't think I was insulting it.

[j]

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

And as I've explained, I fail to see how someone WHO LIKES DT saying that THE SONG SOUNDS LIKE DT could possibly be an insult.

Regardless of your general like or dislike of band X, when they release new material, would you really say "well, this sure sounds like...band X" and intend it to be "clearly a compliment to the song"?  I never said it was an outright insult, but a "clear compliment" is just as absurd.

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

Your post sounds... like j.

Is that offensive to you?  :S

ARGH YES!  

-J

EDIT:

I for one think he's an excellent poster, so if I said that then yeah obviously it would be a compliment.

Likewise.    Which is why I'm shocked and appalled that you have this ridiculous opinion!

[ReaPsTA]

But do you admit that what he did say could be interpreted as having that exact same meaning? 

No.  Every time I've seen every person I've ever interacted with in even the most superficial way "that band's song sounds like... that band," it's been negative.  Even when they like a band.  It's like when someone asks you how one of your friends is doing and you say "Eh... Jimmy's Jimmy."  He's your friend, but he was being annoying and/or unsatisfactory that day.

I mean, question to Jaffa, are you American?  Because I know ariich is British, and maybe in Britain the language is different.  Because I cannot stress enough that in America saying "It sounded like... DT" is universal code for having a negative opinion of it.  I showed one of my friends who doesn't really like Dream Theater the single, you know what he said?  You do know where this is going right?

"It sounds like Dream Theater dude."

Ah well, Jerry's gonna be Jerry sometimes.

If he wanted to take a dig, wouldn't he leave out the obviously positive stuff?

Well, it's not obviously positive.

And also, there's no way he'd ever openly insult the song unless he truly hated it.  RR might cut him off from playing future DT material/singles, and he doesn't need to have a bunch of headlines saying "NYC Metal DJ Eddie Trunk Blasts Dream Theater, Defends ex-Drummer Mike Portnoy."

[Zook]

Trunk tweeted that the song sounded like DT and that "Mangini is a monster but there is only one MP of course". Which is clearly a compliment to the song and Mangini's playing while sticking up for his friend MP, but obviously people have somehow interpreted it as a dig at DT, which I still don't understand.

Ariich, dude.  I agree that the comment about Mangini and Portnoy was probably not an insult or anything as some have made it out to be.  But like Bacong explained 251235 pages ago, the comment about the song sounding "...like DT" is absolutely NOT "clearly a compliment to the song".  That's ridiculous!

-J

Your post sounds... like j.

Is that offensive to you?  :S

That depends on whether you like J's posts usually or not. I for one think he's an excellent poster, so if I said that then yeah obviously it would be a compliment.

But yeah that's not bad analogy actually, I think everyone knows how much I love robwebster's posts here. If he posted something and I said "typical Rob", I would HOPE that people didn't think I was insulting it.

Me: What did you think of Rob's post?

Ariich: It was....... Rob.

I'm on the fence now. Over analyzing is a bitch.

[ariich]

I showed one of my friends who doesn't really like Dream Theater the single, you know what he said?  You do know where this is going right?

"It sounds like Dream Theater dude."

Indeed, but Trunk DOES like DT. So that example is meaningless.

And the friend analogy doesn't really work as often you stay friends with people simply because of a history. Especially If they were really that annoying. With music, if something puts you off then you can stop listening to it.

[Jaffa]

But do you admit that what he did say could be interpreted as having that exact same meaning? 

No.  Every time I've seen every person I've ever interacted with in even the most superficial way "that band's song sounds like... that band," it's been negative.  Even when they like a band.  It's like when someone asks you how one of your friends is doing and you say "Eh... Jimmy's Jimmy."  He's your friend, but he was being annoying and/or unsatisfactory that day.

I mean, question to Jaffa, are you American?  Because I know ariich is British, and maybe in Britain the language is different.  Because I cannot stress enough that in America saying "It sounded like... DT" is universal code for having a negative opinion of it.  I showed one of my friends who doesn't really like Dream Theater the single, you know what he said?  You do know where this is going right?

"It sounds like Dream Theater dude."

Ah well, Jerry's gonna be Jerry sometimes.

I'm American.  And as an American, I didn't even understand how the message could be construed as offensive until Zook translated it for me.

I'm also a Metallica fan, and when Death Magnetic was released, I heard a lot of people say, "Sounds like Metallica."  I can't say for certain that anyone said, "Sounds... like Metallica."  But a lot of people said it sounded like Metallica, and what they meant was, it finally sounded like Metallica again, as opposed to St. Anger which they felt was bad. 

So yes, I have had experience with people saying that a band sounds like itself and meaning it in a positive way.

[Matt7]

OT

Does Death Magnetic really sound like Metallica??...

OT

[ariich]

Reap, another problem with your analogy is that when someone says "Eh, Tim is Tim", it's in reference to a specific character flaw, which everyone in the dialogue presumably knows about. If Tim was some great philanthropist who spent his time saving lives and volunteering for charities, that exact same comment would inherently be complimentary.

I would agree with you if it was known that there was something about DT that Trunk disliked, but as far as I know he likes the band and their music. A comment like that simply means that nothing has changed. The comment in itself can only mean that it is as standard and therefore his feelings towards it are also as standard, i.e. he likes it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

OT

Does Death Magnetic really sound like Metallica??...

OT

I'M MADLY IN ANGER WITH YOU.

[ReaPsTA]

Indeed, but Trunk DOES like DT. So that example is meaningless.

And the friend analogy doesn't really work as often you stay friends with people simply because of a history. Especially If they were really that annoying. With music, if something puts you off then you can stop listening to it.

...

You don't think Eddie Trunk listened to OTBOA moreso because of his history with the band than anything else?  It's always seemed to me that he's been more of a fan/friend of MP over anything else.

I'm American.  

I'm also a Metallica fan, and when Death Magnetic was released, I heard a lot of people say, "Sounds like Metallica."  I can't say for certain that anyone said, "Sounds... like Metallica."  But a lot of people said it sounded like Metallica, and what they meant was, it finally sounded like Metallica again, as opposed to St. Anger which they felt was bad.  

So yes, I have had experience with people saying that a band sounds like itself and meaning it in a positive way.

That's a super specific example.  And even in that case, the people who liked it were saying "Holy crap it sounds like I'm listening to Metallica again!"  The people who didn't like it basically said "It sounds like... Old Metallica."

Just because you CAN interpret Trunk's comment as positive doesn't mean there's a realistic chance people use it that way.  No one ever does.  Why is this the exception, especially with both Trunk and MP's behavior (digs at DT, negativity over the whole thing) backing up the more negative one?  It makes no sense.

Reap, another problem with your analogy is that when someone says "Eh, Tim is Tim", it's in reference to a specific character flaw, which everyone in the dialogue presumably knows about. If Tim was some great philanthropist who spent his time saving lives and volunteering for charities, that exact same comment would inherently be complimentary. 

Yeah, but nobody would ever say that.

[Jaffa]

I'm American. 

I'm also a Metallica fan, and when Death Magnetic was released, I heard a lot of people say, "Sounds like Metallica."  I can't say for certain that anyone said, "Sounds... like Metallica."  But a lot of people said it sounded like Metallica, and what they meant was, it finally sounded like Metallica again, as opposed to St. Anger which they felt was bad. 

So yes, I have had experience with people saying that a band sounds like itself and meaning it in a positive way.

That's a super specific example.  And even in that case, the people who liked it were saying "Holy crap it sounds like I'm listening to Metallica again!"  The people who didn't like it basically said "It sounds like... Old Metallica."

Just because you CAN interpret Trunk's comment as positive doesn't mean there's a realistic chance people use it that way.  No one ever does.  Why is this the exception, especially with both Trunk and MP's behavior (digs at DT, negativity over the whole thing) backing up the more negative one?  It makes no sense.

The thing is, I think it's much more open to interpretation than you're letting on.  Consider this:

"The new DT track sounds... like DT.   "
"The new DT track sounds... like DT.   "

Same message, different emoticon.  In one it's obviously positive, in the other it is definitely negative.  Which means that the comment by itself does have the potential to be EITHER negative OR positive. 

The message is at worst ambiguous.

[Ben_Jamin]

Can't believe people actually are arguing over a MP tweet...in the wrong thread.

[ReaPsTA]

Can't believe people actually are arguing over a MP tweet...in the wrong thread.

It's either this or watch porn, and my penis is feeling very noodley.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Can't believe people actually are arguing over a MP tweet...in the wrong thread.

It's either this or watch porn, and my penis is feeling very noodley.

I can help


 

[ReaPsTA]

I can help


 

...

[Jaffa]

...

Well, that derailed things.  Nice job Darklord!

[hefdaddy42]

Can't believe people actually are arguing over a MP tweet...in the wrong thread.

It's not the wrong thread, it's about a tweet about the song.

[Jaffa]

DTF: Discussing Tangents Forever.

[ReaPsTA]

DTF: Discussing Tangents Forever.

 

You win an internet.

[j]

I'm also a Metallica fan, and when Death Magnetic was released, I heard a lot of people say, "Sounds like Metallica."  I can't say for certain that anyone said, "Sounds... like Metallica."  But a lot of people said it sounded like Metallica, and what they meant was, it finally sounded like Metallica again, as opposed to St. Anger which they felt was bad. 

The difference in this case would be that a recent criticism (valid or not) of DT has been that their music has sounded less inspired and more like just the "same old DT" for the past few albums.  To say their new song "sounds...like DT" carries a negative connotation in that context IMO, although it could be neutral.  Hard to interpret it as complimentary.

Whereas if I recall, people felt Metallica had really gone astray with St. Anger: that is, they tried something radically different and it failed.  In that case, I agree with you.  People saying Death Magnetic sounds like Metallica would probably be construed as a positive thing, since the implication is that they DIDN'T sound like Metallica on St. Anger, and that that was a bad thing.  There's no such parallel with DT at this point in their history.

-J

[Zydar]

Damn I haven't listened to this song yet today. I must remedy it post haste!

[bss4life15]

It seems like everything MP does will be criticized no matter what he does. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

...

Well, that derailed things.  Nice job Darklord!

In here, every thread is a potential homo-erotic thread

[Ben_Jamin]

Yup, its great he's doing this for all his fans, but that's why most don't interact with fans as often for this reason alone. What I'm worried about is MP just outright having enough of it and deleting his twitter, facebook, and forum.

[Bacong]

Reap, another problem with your analogy is that when someone says "Eh, Tim is Tim", it's in reference to a specific character flaw, which everyone in the dialogue presumably knows about. If Tim was some great philanthropist who spent his time saving lives and volunteering for charities, that exact same comment would inherently be complimentary.

I would agree with you if it was known that there was something about DT that Trunk disliked, but as far as I know he likes the band and their music. A comment like that simply means that nothing has changed. The comment in itself can only mean that it is as standard and therefore his feelings towards it are also as standard, i.e. he likes it.

I think you're ignoring the that a large amount of the criticism DT has received over the years is them recycling their sound, having a "DT" instrumental section, just in general throwing together the first 80 minutes of music they can without any sort of coherent sound.

I would think anyone, anywhere, who is familiar with the band and has listened for awhile, and upon having heard the new song remarks that "sounds like another DT song" would NOT be a positive. Even if you loved DT, honestly, would the first thing that came into your head be "Yay! They still sound like DT!" how much is their sound going to change?

I don't care that he only had 140 characters. If you like something, there's more than enough room to express that in that limit, even while loving on MP.

As for Trunk liking DT? He liked DT with Portnoy in it. He's Portnoy's friend. This is his first indication how he feels about the band minus MP. Not very expressive eh?

[Bacong]

I'm also a Metallica fan, and when Death Magnetic was released, I heard a lot of people say, "Sounds like Metallica."  I can't say for certain that anyone said, "Sounds... like Metallica."  But a lot of people said it sounded like Metallica, and what they meant was, it finally sounded like Metallica again, as opposed to St. Anger which they felt was bad.  

The difference in this case would be that a recent criticism (valid or not) of DT has been that their music has sounded less inspired and more like just the "same old DT" for the past few albums.  To say their new song "sounds...like DT" carries a negative connotation in that context IMO, although it could be neutral.  Hard to interpret it as complimentary.

Whereas if I recall, people felt Metallica had really gone astray with St. Anger: that is, they tried something radically different and it failed.  In that case, I agree with you.  People saying Death Magnetic sounds like Metallica would probably be construed as a positive thing, since the implication is that they DIDN'T sound like Metallica on St. Anger, and that that was a bad thing.  There's no such parallel with DT at this point in their history.

-J

Yup. There's better ways to say it while still essentially saying the same thing. He could have said "sounds like something off Images and Words!" Which is saying it sounds like DT, but on arguably their best album.

[ehra]

The whole argument that "it sounds like DT" is an insult to the band hinges on the idea that he was faking his like of DT in the past. Yeah, this isn't reaching at all.

Yup. There's better ways to say it while still essentially saying the same thing. He could have said "sounds like something off Images and Words!" Which is saying it sounds like DT, but on arguably their best album.

It would also be wrong; it doesn't sound anything like something off I&W.

[GasparXR]

The whole argument that "it sounds like DT" is an insult to the band hinges on the idea that he was faking his like of DT in the past. Yeah, this isn't reaching at all.

Yup. There's better ways to say it while still essentially saying the same thing. He could have said "sounds like something off Images and Words!" Which is saying it sounds like DT, but on arguably their best album.

It would also be wrong; it doesn't sound anything like something off I&W.

The matter of whether it sounds like I&W is subjective to begin with(along with whether he though it was arguably their best album), so the statement could neither be right OR wrong. If he had said that, it would either be negative or positive depending on if he liked I&W.

[ehra]

The whole argument that "it sounds like DT" is an insult to the band hinges on the idea that he was faking his like of DT in the past. Yeah, this isn't reaching at all.

Yup. There's better ways to say it while still essentially saying the same thing. He could have said "sounds like something off Images and Words!" Which is saying it sounds like DT, but on arguably their best album.

It would also be wrong; it doesn't sound anything like something off I&W.

The matter of whether it sounds like I&W is subjective to begin with(along with whether he though it was arguably their best album), so the statement could neither be right OR wrong. If he had said that, it would either be negative or positive depending on if he liked I&W.

Not to mention that, if people are already assuming that his previous enjoyment of DT was just a ploy so he could keep MP happy (making his comment that the song sounds like DT an insult), then I don't see why him saying "it sounds like I&W" would make any difference. If he actually disliked DT all along then that would still be the exact same insult as what he did post.

[Bacong]

We wouldn't be here arguing about this had he said that, because I&W is one of their most popular albums.

Also, the song has a definite Pull Me Under vibe.

[GasparXR]

We wouldn't be here arguing about this had he said that, because I&W is one of their most popular albums.

Also, the song has a definite Pull Me Under vibe.

I&W being popular doesn't mean he would still think it's their best album; and OTBOA having the Pull Me Under vibe is once again subjective (I think it does, you think it does, some other people think it does but at the same time other people don't).