Gay Marriage Legal in New York!

[GuineaPig]

I think people would be surprised by the amount of people born with ambiguous genitalia.

[Durg]

This is such great news!

EDIT: After reading a few articles about it, it appears that it only passed because they added a stipulation that said that churches didn't have to marry gays. So it becomes increasingly apparent that religion continues to be the largest obstacle to justice, equality and freedom.

Honestly, I don't see why that should even have to be a stipulation, I'd think it would be implicit in any bill like this. Churches are a private institution and have the right to deny their services to whomever they want.

True but without that stipulation gays have the right to sue churches on the grounds discrimination.

[the Catfishman]

ugh. I agree with the orientation and sex parts but the "gender" thing is BULLSHIT!! a man is a man and a woman is a woman if you dont like the deck you were handed in life thats understandable but that doesnt mean you arent what you are, the world isnt fair yes I know. some people are really really silly with this.

It's not bullshit and nowadays it can easily be measured in the brain.

[Sigz]

ugh. I agree with the orientation and sex parts but the "gender" thing is BULLSHIT!! a man is a man and a woman is a woman if you dont like the deck you were handed in life thats understandable but that doesnt mean you arent what you are, the world isnt fair yes I know. some people are really really silly with this.

You are aware that it is entirely possible to be "born in the wrong body" right? Some girls are just born in male bodies, and vice versa. It really sucks, I have a friend who is in this situation and she has a lot of obstacles she is getting through.

Well yes, but they are still male. Would call a tall person being born in a midgets body tall?

Hence the distinction between gender and sex.

[chknptpie]

This is such great news!

EDIT: After reading a few articles about it, it appears that it only passed because they added a stipulation that said that churches didn't have to marry gays. So it becomes increasingly apparent that religion continues to be the largest obstacle to justice, equality and freedom.

Honestly, I don't see why that should even have to be a stipulation, I'd think it would be implicit in any bill like this. Churches are a private institution and have the right to deny their services to whomever they want.

True but without that stipulation gays have the right to sue churches on the grounds discrimination.

I'm not sure that can ever happen since churches are private institutions in the first place.

[Super Dude]

I thought this was refreshing:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/new-york-gay-marriage_n_878358.html

You get to the point where you evolve in your life where everything isn't black and white, good and bad, and you try to do the right thing," McDonald, 64, told reporters.
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, fuck it, I don't care what you think. I'm trying to do the right thing.
"I'm tired of Republican-Democrat politics. They can take the job and shove it. I come from a blue-collar background. I'm trying to do the right thing, and that's where I'm going with this.

Refreshing indeed.  There used to be a time when bipartisanship was the rule, not the exception, and it's about time we got back to that.

Also I seem to remember on the day of that the statistic was six states with gay marriage legislation, so I think that number is actually 44, unless I'm forgetting some crucial detail.

[Durg]

Next stop, Arkansas!!!

Why Arkansas?  As someone that grew up there I know that many other states would be more successful at passing something like this before Arkansas does.

[ScioPath]

then they are pyschological issues brought on by them desiring to be/indentifying more with the opposite gender, NOT "being born in the wrong body". That isnt how reality works, sorry.

First of all, in this case there is no "desiring to be". There is being, one way or the other. Who a person is on the inside takes precedence over his/her physiology in determining who he/she. You are who you are, yes. That doesn't mean you are what biology labeled you. C'mon guys, didn't we learn anything from Beauty And The Beast?

[El Barto]

then they are pyschological issues brought on by them desiring to be/indentifying more with the opposite gender, NOT "being born in the wrong body". That isnt how reality works, sorry.

Nope.  Gender has plenty of aspects other than what you're packing, including a psychological component.  And remember, we all start off with the same equipment.  

[bosk1]

Wow.  Too bad, New York.  The slide into immorality unfortunately continues.  Oh well.  Not unexpected.

[GuineaPig]

Yeah, I really wish we could go back in time and deny equal rights to all minorities.  

[ehra]

Gays shouldn't be allowed to hold public office.

[antigoon]

Shitstorm in 3...2...

[Chino]

Gays shouldn't be allowed to hold public office.

Are you being for real.

[ehra]

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=24124.105

[Durg]

Yeah, I really wish we could go back in time and deny equal rights to all minorities.  

Since when was marriage a "right"?  What "rights" are they being denied by not having a state recognize them as being a married couple?  Also, when did we decide that being gay makes you a minority?  I All this time I thought African Americans or Latin Americans were minorities.  Are gays going to start getting minority status when it comes to business and education?  Maybe if I start a business I can say I'm gay to get minority benefits.  Because here in Pennsylvania it's really hard to be a white male business owner and get government contracts.

[bosk1]

Already happening, Durg.  Already happening.  In today's society, it's only okay to "discriminate" against white Christian males.  Every other status or personal characteristic under the sun is protected.

[GuineaPig]

Already happening, Durg.  Already happening.  In today's society, it's only okay to "discriminate" against white Christian males.  Every other status or personal characteristic under the sun is protected.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

As for marriage, yes it's a right.  It's a legal status that carries a set of benefits/considerations, and not extending it to a group of people based on their sexuality is moronic. 

And yes, homosexuals are sexual minorities, just like Latin Americans are racial minorities, Sikhs are religious minorities, etc.

[Durg]

Already happening, Durg.  Already happening.  In today's society, it's only okay to "discriminate" against white Christian males.  Every other status or personal characteristic under the sun is protected.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

As for marriage, yes it's a right.  It's a legal status that carries a set of benefits/considerations, and not extending it to a group of people based on their sexuality is moronic. 

And yes, homosexuals are sexual minorities, just like Latin Americans are racial minorities, Sikhs are religious minorities, etc.

What benefits/considerations are associated with that legal status of "married"  I've been married for 14 years and didn't know I had special benefits/considerations?  The only thing I can think of is taxes but I can't see that that amounts to a hill of beans.  It sure doesn't help with healthcare.  The family plans are always more expensive. 

Since I'm such a moron fill me in.  I've always wondered what was so great about being considered "married" if you don't believe in God or don't consider it a matter of two becoming one flesh in a Biblical sense.

[ehra]

https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf

Consequently, as of December 31, 2003, our research identified a
total of 1,138 federal statutory provisions classified to the United States Code in which
marital status is a factor in determining or receiving benefits, rights, and privileges.

APPENDIX 4
CATEGORIES OF STATUTORY PROVISIONS
CATEGORY 1—SOCIAL SECURITY AND RELATED PROGRAMS, HOUSING,
AND
FOOD STAMPS

This category includes the major federal health and welfare programs, particularly those
considered entitlements, such as Social Security retirement and disability benefits, food
stamps, welfare, and Medicare and Medicaid. Most of these provisions are found in Title 42
of the United States Code, Public Health and Welfare; food stamp legislation is in Title 7,
Agriculture.

CATEGORY 2—VETERANS' BENEFITS
Veterans' benefits, which are codified in Title 38 of the United States Code, include pensions,
indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, nursing home care, right
to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing. Husbands or wives of
veterans have many rights and privileges by virtue of the marital relationship.

CATEGORY 3—TAXATION
While the distinction between married and unmarried status is pervasive in federal tax law,
terms such as "husband," "wife," or "married" are not defined. However, marital status
figures in federal tax law in provisions as basic as those giving married taxpayers the option
to file joint or separate income tax returns. It is also seen in the related provisions prescribing
different tax consequences, depending on whether a taxpayer is married filing jointly,
married filing separately, unmarried but the head of a household, or unmarried and not the
head of a household.

CATEGORY 4—FEDERAL CIVILIAN AND MILITARY SERVICE BENEFITS
This category includes statutory provisions dealing with current and retired federal officers
and employees, members of the Armed Forces, elected officials, and judges, in which marital
status is a factor. Typically these provisions address the various health, leave, retirement,
survivor, and insurance benefits provided by the United States to those in federal service and
their families.

CATEGORY 5—EMPLOYMENT BENEFITS AND RELATED PROVISIONS
Marital status comes into play in many different ways in federal laws relating to employment
in the private sector. Most provisions appear in Title 29 of the United States Code, Labor.However, others are in Title 30, Mineral Lands and Mining; Title 33, Navigation and
Navigable Waters; and Title 45, Railroads. This category includes laws that address the
rights of employees under employer-sponsored employee benefit plans; that provide for
continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits after events like the death or divorce of
the employee; and that give employees the right to unpaid leave in order to care for a
seriously ill spouse. In addition, Congress has extended special benefits in connection with
certain occupations, like mining and public safety.

CATEGORY 6—IMMIGRATION, NATURALIZATION, AND ALIENS
This category includes federal statutory provisions governing the conditions under which
noncitizens may enter and remain in the United States, be deported, or become citizens. Most
are found in Title 8, Aliens and Nationality. The law gives special consideration to spouses
of immigrant and nonimmigrant aliens in a wide variety of circumstances. Under
immigration law, aliens may receive special status by virtue of their employment, and that
treatment may extend to their spouses. Also, spouses of aliens granted asylum can be given
the same status if they accompany or join their spouses.
.
CATEGORY 7—INDIANS
The indigenous peoples of the United States have long had a special legal relationship with
the federal government through treaties and laws that are classified to Title 25, Indians.
Various laws set out the rights to tribal property of “white” men marrying “Indian” women,
or of “Indian” women marrying “white” men. The law also outlines the descent and
distribution rights for Indians’ property. In addition, there are laws pertaining to health care
eligibility for Indians and spouses and reimbursement of travel expenses of spouses and
candidates seeking positions in the Indian Health Service.

CATEGORY 8—TRADE, COMMERCE, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
This category includes provisions concerning foreign or domestic business and commerce, in
the following titles of the United States Code: Bankruptcy, Title 11; Banks and Banking,
Title
12; Commerce and Trade, Title 15; Copyrights, Title 17; and Customs Duties, Title 19. This
category also includes the National Housing Act (rights of mortgage borrowers); the
Consumer Credit Protection Act (governs wage garnishment); and the Copyright Act
(spousal copyright renewal and termination rights).

CATEGORY 9—FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST
Federal law imposes obligations on members of Congress, employees or officers of the
federal government, and members of the boards of directors of some government-related or
government chartered entities, to prevent actual or apparent conflicts of interest. These
individuals are required to disclose publicly certain gifts, interests, and transactions. Many ofthese requirements, which are found in 16 different titles of the United States Code, apply
also to the individual's spouse.

CATEGORY 10—CRIMES AND FAMILY VIOLENCE
This category includes laws that implicate marriage in connection with criminal justice or
family violence. The nature of these provisions varies greatly. Some deal with spouses as
victims of crimes, others with spouses as perpetrators. These laws are found primarily in
Title 18, Crimes and Criminal Procedure, but some statutory provisions, dealing with crime
prevention and family violence, are in Title 42, Public Health and Welfare.

CATEGORY 11—LOANS, GUARANTEES, AND PAYMENTS IN AGRICULTURE
Under many federal loan programs, a spouse's income, business interests, or assets are taken
into account for purposes of determining a person's eligibility to participate in the program.
In other instances, marital status is a factor in determining the amount of federal assistance to
which a person is entitled or the repayment schedule. This category includes education loan
programs, housing loan programs for veterans, and provisions governing agricultural price
supports and loan programs that are affected by the spousal relationship.

CATEGORY 12—FEDERAL NATURAL RESOURCES AND RELATED
PROVISIONS
Federal law gives special rights to spouses in connection with a variety of transactions
involving federal lands and other federal property. These transactions include purchase and
sale of land by the federal government and lease by the government of water and mineral
rights.

CATEGORY 13—MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS
This category comprises federal statutory provisions that do not fit readily in any of the other
12 categories. Federal provisions that prohibit discrimination on the basis of marital status
are included in this category. This category also includes various patriotic societies chartered
in federal law, such as the Veterans of Foreign Wars or the Gold Star Wives of America.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Wow.  Too bad, New York.  The slide into immorality unfortunately continues.  Oh well.  Not unexpected.

Who are you to decide what is moral and immoral? I can't make that decision and neither can you. But this isn't about morality

It's about legality.

And as one representative said (who happens to be another Conservative Republican), he could find no reason for gay marriage to be illegal, though he's against it. He voted for the bill.


Politicians should not be deciding morality. That's stupid.

[Dr. DTVT]

Thank you for posting a more official version of what I was about to post ehra.

[Ravenheart]

Wow.  Too bad, New York.  The slide into immorality unfortunately continues.  Oh well.  Not unexpected.

Wow.

[ScioPath]

Wow.  Too bad, New York.  The slide into immorality unfortunately continues.  Oh well.  Not unexpected.

So, Marrying someone you love is immoral? Oh, I get it now.

[Durg]

Thank you for posting a more official version of what I was about to post ehra.

Yep.  Thanks.  Although very few of those things stated affects me personally, I can't really make an argument that marriage does not have benefits.

[Dr. DTVT]

Most of those don't apply to most people I would assume, but while things like health insurance are tangible, the intangible benefits, such as the ability to see your loved one when they are in the hospital, are just as or more important to them.

As for the whole morality arguement - not allowing them to marry isn't exactly keeping them apart.  If you think its immoral that's your judgement, but extending equal rights to them isn't going to make the world a worse place.  It just means gays can enjoy the excitement of a wedding day and have it be recognized, can list their partner on their health insurance, and do many other little things that married people take for granted or don't have to deal with.  I'd just like to hear one arguement why its ok to discriminate against law-abiding citizens just because they are different than you or me.

[tjanuranus]

Already happening, Durg.  Already happening.  In today's society, it's only okay to "discriminate" against white Christian males.  Every other status or personal characteristic under the sun is protected.

Atheists face way more discrimination than Christians in this country. Are you kidding me? If you say you are an atheist people look at you like you are a satanists or a child molester. If you say you are a Christian nobody cares or they invite you over for dinner.

[tjanuranus]

Yeah my personal beliefs say gays are evil so the government must do exactly what i believe! - Sarcasm obviously...

Why is there no emoticon for blowing brains out?

[Durg]

Wow.  Too bad, New York.  The slide into immorality unfortunately continues.  Oh well.  Not unexpected.

So, Marrying someone you love is immoral? Oh, I get it now.

We all have different ideas about what is moral and what is immoral.  Love has nothing to do with it.  

I could love my dog so much that I decide that I want to marry it.  

What if enough people who love their dogs and want to marry them can rally together and demand that they are being discriminated against.  Then all kinds of influential people like Lady Ga Ga and Stephen Speilberg can insist that there's an injustice going on in our country.  So for years, even decades, we get bombarded with messages from all forms of media (TV, Movies, Music) that the people who want to marry dogs are just as normal as you and me they just were born attracted to dogs rather than humans.  Endless arguments never cease with people claiming that human dog love has been going on since the beginning of time.  Finally, after many years of discrimination, New York passes a law that makes marrying dogs legal.  Everyone declares that it's about time and when people that were not in agreement with the human dog lifestyle say it's another slide to immorality, everyone will say things like, "so marrying the dog you love is immoral?  Hmmmft!

Like it or not many people still believe the homosexual lifestyle is immoral.  Like it or not laws are based off of people's idea of what is right and what is wrong.....morality.  It's an argument that is not going to end.

[Adami]

Animals can't consent to marriage.

[Durg]

Animals can't consent to marriage.

You totally missed my point.   

[Adami]

Animals can't consent to marriage.

You totally missed my point.   

You used the old "Gay marriage can lead to interspecies marriage" argument based on the logic that if the line isn't drawn somewhere, it's drawn no where.


I proved where the line is logically.

[Durg]

Already happening, Durg.  Already happening.  In today's society, it's only okay to "discriminate" against white Christian males.  Every other status or personal characteristic under the sun is protected.

Atheists face way more discrimination than Christians in this country. Are you kidding me? If you say you are an atheist people look at you like you are a satanists or a child molester. If you say you are a Christian nobody cares or they invite you over for dinner.

I'd give about 20 more years and I'd say it will be the other way around.

[Durg]

Animals can't consent to marriage.

You totally missed my point.   

You used the old "Gay marriage can lead to interspecies marriage" argument based on the logic that if the line isn't drawn somewhere, it's drawn no where.

Nope.  Not my point at all.

[Adami]

Animals can't consent to marriage.

You totally missed my point.   

You used the old "Gay marriage can lead to interspecies marriage" argument based on the logic that if the line isn't drawn somewhere, it's drawn no where.

Nope.  Not my point at all.

Oh I apologize, what was the point then?