Do atheists face discrimination?

[El JoNNo]

Right... Hmm Heaven eternal life at the side of god; hell eternal torture for finite crimes; Jesus supposedly gave his life for every ones sins. Something which if god wanted to forgive someone for he could instead he creates a convoluted mess to somehow fix the mess he created. As for the Richard Dawkins comment; I haven't read The God Delusion in it's entirety. I think I made it to chapter 2ish and put it down. Reading something that I am already aware of seemed a bit redundant, I stick to his scientific works.

[tjanuranus]

I hear you, TOX.  And although I am not saying your post was aimed at me, I feel the need to state one more time for the record, even though I have already clarified this:  I did not say or imply that atheists are amoral (or immoral).  

But you did imply that Atheists' belief system pre-disposes them to immoral behavoir due to lack of afterlife consequenses.

what atheists need is an elaborate book of some sort that uses the threat of eternal torment to scare them into doing good deeds

Yeah i second this. Maybe we should write. Like if you believe in Global warming or social programs you're going to go to a fiery fantasy land forever. The problem is i don't hear voices talking to me so i wouldn't know what to write.

And you guys only reject God because you enjoy porn and binge drinking, right? Perhaps you could learn about Christianity before speaking about it.

I probably know just as much or more about Christianity than anyone on this forum. I can speak about it.

[Quadrochosis]

Ideas which you know little about, other than the pop versions you've learned about from misinformed Christians and Richard Dawkins.

Pretty sure tja grew up in a very Christian household, so unless you're calling his entire family "misinformed Christians" you might want to rethink that.

[tjanuranus]

Well i had religion class 5 days a week. Church 4 days a week plus bible studies with my parents every night. Plus i had to memorize multiple bible versus per day that were attached to the bathroom mirror and recite them at night. Plus religious retreats, conferences, revivals, plays, etc. I've read the bible way more than any other book.

[El JoNNo]

Well i had religion class 5 days a week. Church 4 days a week plus bible studies with my parents every night. Plus i had to memorize multiple bible versus per day that were attached to the bathroom mirror and recite them at night. Plus religious retreats, conferences, revivals, plays, etc. I've read the bible way more than any other book.

I don't mean this in a humorous or sarcastic way when I say; I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[ClairvoyantCat]

This thread is being completely derailed into silly Christianity-bashing based on a sarcastic drive-by that probably shouldn't have been taken this seriously. 

[slycordinator]

- I live in the bible belt and I don't think anyone would care that much if I told them I was an atheist. I'm not saying I am, just a hypothetical. I think there would be a lot of girls who would eliminate me from marriage contention, but they would also do so if I told them I was a muslim, jew, etc.

While I'm a Christian, you gotta consider that your perspective on things not being all that bad for atheists doesn't mean a lot to atheists when they know you're not one of them. Like if I went to my black friends and told them that I didn't think they got discriminated much around here, I'm certain I would hear stories showcasing why I was wrong.

[sonatafanica]

I hear you, TOX.  And although I am not saying your post was aimed at me, I feel the need to state one more time for the record, even though I have already clarified this:  I did not say or imply that atheists are amoral (or immoral).  

But you did imply that Atheists' belief system pre-disposes them to immoral behavoir due to lack of afterlife consequenses.

what atheists need is an elaborate book of some sort that uses the threat of eternal torment to scare them into doing good deeds

Yeah i second this. Maybe we should write. Like if you believe in Global warming or social programs you're going to go to a fiery fantasy land forever. The problem is i don't hear voices talking to me so i wouldn't know what to write.

And you guys only reject God because you enjoy porn and binge drinking, right? Perhaps you could learn about Christianity before speaking about it.

my love of both porn and binge drinking has nothing to do with it

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Everybody needs to chill and get back on topic. please and thank you

[D_Halco]

Shouldn't being a decent, kind, worldly human being supercede anything based on a particular belief system? I am a Christian and this is how I feel.

Also I'm positive Atheists face discrimination in many parts of the world just as members of any religion are discriminated against. I think it usually comes down to a stubbornness and an "I'm right, you're wrong!" line of thinking, which may or may not mask an outright hatred or something similar.

[slycordinator]

4.  Yes they absolutely are!  I can run for public office if I'm Christian.  I can't run for public office if I'm an atheist.  Obviously one person has more rights than the other.

You still have the right to run for office. It's just that there's no right to you being elected.

No one is saying people have a right to get elected.  Have you read the discussion, because this post seems to me like you haven't read all the posts.

btw, I had obviously only skimmed through things and missed out on that part.

In any case, just because a law says that only people who believe in a creator can be eligible doesn't mean that this is, will be, or even can be enforced. There are plenty of laws on the books that no longer are applicable and no longer enforced. Also, just because only people who believe in a religion get on the ballot doesn't mean that atheists are being disallowed; it could just mean that atheists aren't running.

[bosk1]

I hear you, TOX.  And although I am not saying your post was aimed at me, I feel the need to state one more time for the record, even though I have already clarified this:  I did not say or imply that atheists are amoral (or immoral). 

But you did imply that Atheists' belief system pre-disposes them to immoral behavoir due to lack of afterlife consequenses.

No, Eric, I didn't say that.  And since I'm now having to repeat myself, I would prefer you go back and read what I in fact did say, because you putting words in my mouth is frankly quite annoying.

[slycordinator]

You did say that belief in God, by definition, doesn't allow for immorality whereas atheism allows for a whole range of moral stances.

I think he's arguing that you're saying that atheists are therefore more likely to be immoral than people who believe in God simply because you're saying the latter can't be immoral while the former could.

On the other hand, you had previously said that there are plenty of immoral people who claim to believe in God so I doubt you were exactly meaning things the way he seems to be taking it.

[Scheavo]

Yes, people can lie about that or act in a way that is completely inconsistent with that (examples were given above of people who perhaps professed a belief in a god, but acted very poorly), but that is the case with any job qualification (or political qualification), and the fact that someone can misprepresent themselves or act inconsistently does not in and of itself negate the validity of the qualification.

Bosk, I think this is what people are taking issue with. Just because someone who believes in a God, perhaps even your God, and doesn't act according to your understanding of God's morality does not mean that they are lying, being inconsistent, or misrepresenting their morality. This implies that there is one morality,  and that other's who don't follow that same morality are either wrong, immoral, inconsistent, liars, or misrepresenting the religion. Saying that you don't mean to be saying this doesn't mean that you aren't implying this in your posts, and I think the fact that so many people have taken what you said as such is a good indication that you are implying that "true" belief in God has a stronger claim to morality. It's a complete dodge to just say that everyone who has ever believes in God and done atrocious things are simply being false to their belief. I'm sure that you are right in some instances, that people have used God simply to benefit their own goals and ambitions, and weren't true believers - but there are many others who have self-scarified themselves in the name of their God and done horrible atrocious things, and I find it hard to conceive how these people didn't truly believe what they claimed to believe. There is no "perhaps profession" here. They acted very poorly in what they honestly and dearly believed was God will, and to say that they misrepresent something, again, implies that there is some objective understanding of religion and morality to be had.

Can we agree that atheism and theism have no bearing on how moral or immoral someone may or may not be? Buddhism is technically atheistic, there is no God of Buddhism, yet Buddhists have a very strict moral and ethical code which directs their actions, and there are eternal consequences.

[ehra]

I hear you, TOX.  And although I am not saying your post was aimed at me, I feel the need to state one more time for the record, even though I have already clarified this:  I did not say or imply that atheists are amoral (or immoral). 

But you did imply that Atheists' belief system pre-disposes them to immoral behavoir due to lack of afterlife consequenses.

No, Eric, I didn't say that.  And since I'm now having to repeat myself, I would prefer you go back and read what I in fact did say, because you putting words in my mouth is frankly quite annoying.

What's also annoying is people pointing out obvious flaws in your arguments and you ignoring them to reply just to posts claiming you said things you feel you didn't.

[eric42434224]

I hear you, TOX.  And although I am not saying your post was aimed at me, I feel the need to state one more time for the record, even though I have already clarified this:  I did not say or imply that atheists are amoral (or immoral).  

But you did imply that Atheists' belief system pre-disposes them to immoral behavoir due to lack of afterlife consequenses.

No, Eric, I didn't say that.  And since I'm now having to repeat myself, I would prefer you go back and read what I in fact did say, because you putting words in my mouth is frankly quite annoying.

I did read your posts, and I am not trying to put words in your mouth.  It seems to me that you want to imply that if you are a believer, you have afterlife consequenses that will exert pressure to act morally, and that Atheists do not have those consequenses and/or pressure.  That alone to me implies that you feel the Atheists are more likely to act immorally.  But I also know you said that many Atheists act morally, and many Believers act immorally as if to counter the initial implication.  If that is to say that believers and atheists are equally inclined to act immorally, then you really should just flat out say that.  But I have to tell you, continued support for the laws mentioned in this thread go directly against that.  I hope I am explaining myself here...no intent to insult or argue.

EDIT:  I guess what I am trying to say is this:
Bosk...do you truly believe that an Atheist and a Believer have the same propensity for moral/immoral behavoir and/or choices?
Your statement that they face different pressure/consequenses can lead one to believe that they dont.
If in fact you do, then it is difficult to see your rationale for supporting a law that takes away the opportuntiy for an Atheist to run for office.