Do atheists face discrimination?

[William Wallace]

This guy writing in the Washington Post thinks so. But I think his reasoning is lousy. What are your thoughts?

[Gadough]

In the south, yes, they most certainly do. I can't provide you with any concrete reasoning other than my own personal experiences. None of which I feel like going into right now. In small southern towns, being an atheist causes people to look down at you as if you're a murderer. Being an atheist here carries with it a stigma that can turn you into a social pariah if you're not careful. That's why whenever someone asks me what church I go to (note: the question isn't whether I go at all, but which one I attend, because there's no way my beliefs shift from the norm), I usually say "I don't feel comfortable talking about this, sorry." I don't tell them I don't attend church and that I'm not a Christian. I'd rather avoid making waves. It's just easier to stay in the closet.

[Tick]

It depends where you live. In the bible belt, sure.
In the northeast, no.

[AcidLameLTE]

In UK, no. At least, not as far as I know.

[GuineaPig]

I personally do not.  I know my sister has in South Africa.

But I think people running for public office in the U.S. can't afford to reveal their atheism.  I think there's 1(?) elected federal representative who's openly atheist in the U.S., even though roughly 10% of the overall population doesn't believe in gods. 

[alirocker08]

Where I live in the UK (North-East Midlands) it's more normal to be atheist than religious. The church near me has a terrible turn out, the only people who attend are old people.

[rumborak]

In the US, yeah. You can not run for office if you are one.

rumborak

[Chino]

In the US, yeah. You can not run for office if you are one.

rumborak

Which I really think needs to change. I'll quote that lady from the end of Religulous. "I don't know much about politics, but I'll vote for George Bush because of his faith".

[Nick]

In the US, yeah. You can not run for office if you are one.

rumborak

You can if you play the church game correctly. All you have to do is show that you attend church or have at some point. You don't have to actually believe a word of it and can have policies that fly in the face of church policy, but as long as you come across as a church going citizen you can be elected.

And in any case it's not discrimination. They aren't being excluded due to something they're born with. They have a difference of opinion and belief that voters don't like. It's as simple as a difference on a policy matter or anything else.

Speaking for Eastern PA I've never really seen any everyday type of discrimination.

[GuineaPig]

Well, technically people are born atheists.

But I don't think religious affiliation is analogous to an opinion on public policy.  Not voting for someone because they're Muslim is a lot different than not voting for them because of their policy on gun control.

[rumborak]

I agree. Also, the whole spiel of "oh, it's easy, all you need to do is to go to church and pretend you're listening" is very disturbing. It's like gays; all they need to do is to pretend to be straight publicly, and then they can be as gay as they want!

rumborak

[ddtonfire]

Well, technically people are born atheists.

I disagree; I feel it is a conscious choice.

[rumborak]

I think he's saying that babies are born without religion and knowledge of a diving being.

rumborak

[ddtonfire]

Which isn't necessarily atheism, but now we're just getting into semantics.

[GuineaPig]

It is atheism, but that's not really here nor there.  The point was that religious affiliation (or lack thereof) is not really viewed the same as political stances.

[millahh]

Polls repeated show that an avowed satan-worshipper stands a better change of being elected to public office than an (admitted) atheist.

That's pretty fucked up.

[Nick]

If anything babies would be born agnostic, not atheist. There is no 3 year old that is going to deny the existence of god, they simply have no opinion one way or the other. Through life people choose what to believe regarding god, I don't think they are born with a natural opinion one way or another.

[GuineaPig]

Babies are born without belief in gods.  That makes them atheists.

Several polls have shown that atheists are the least trusted group in America.  I think there's discrimination there.

[El JoNNo]

Seriously are people arguing again that atheism by default is a claim of the non-existence of a god or gods? No, it is the lack of a belief in a god(s), it is not a claim. I'll break it down again...

Gnosticism is knowing
Agnosticism is not knowing
Theism is belief in a god
Atheism is lack of a belief in a god

Agnostic atheist = lack of belief and does not "know"
Gnostic atheist = lack of a belief and "knows"
Agnostic theist = has belief but does not "know"
Gnostic theist = has belief and "knows"

I put "know" in quotes because we cannot know empirically anything about the supernatural, that's why it's super-nature.
Yes we are all born atheists because we do not know of a concept of a god at the time of birth. Why people have such a problem with this concept is beyond me.

As for your question Mr. Wallace, yes atheist do get discriminated against. Have I experienced this no, I have heard of people whom have. My experience is more a disgust or a shocked look on there face as if I just punched there kid. Seriously it's fucked up how people automatically think everyone is of a religion.


Edit: Also agnostics, buddhist and any other religion without gods are in fact atheists. Atheism is also not a religion.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Here in the boonies of Southeaster PA there is some discrimination, but not a whole lot. But there are a ton of bible thumpers out here who look down on anyone who is not a good Christian

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Not in Canada. Hell where I am most of us are atheists, haha.

[73109]

Polls repeated show that an avowed satan-worshipper stands a better change of being elected to public office than an (admitted) atheist.

That's pretty fucked up.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but how in the blue hell does that make any sense??

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Polls repeated show that an avowed satan-worshipper stands a better change of being elected to public office than an (admitted) atheist.

That's pretty fucked up.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but how in the blue hell does that make any sense??

I think the idea is that they at least believe in something

[73109]

That is so fucked up. Because if you ever notice, those bible thumpers that see atheists usually think it is the devil controling them. So, if you put two and two together, that makes no sense.

[robwebster]

Not discrimination. Atheists encounter some people who think their beliefs are ridiculous and will dismiss them offhand on that basis, but everyone's going to encounter an infinity of people who, between them, will think their everything is ridiculous. Hairstyle, shoes, moral code, facial features, accent...

I think people who are offended by swear words are bell-ends. So do many other people. Everyone's got pet peeves, and for some that'll be a belief system that they think is impossibly silly. Discrimination goes beyond dislike, though. It's not like there's a major movement against it. Heck, there are people who really don't like the British. I don't feel discriminated against. Occasionally someone will call me a "tea-drinking pansy" or what-ever. I, in turn, think of them as a "bigoted twat," but it'd be very churlish of me to pretend that that in any way counts as a real problem on anything like the same level as real discrimination.

The president thing's a little scary, and the one thing I've heard of that closest resembles actual discrimination (although of course there are more things in heaven and earth, etc.) - but on the other hand, has that recently been a problem? Has there been a viable presidential candidate who's been turned away, lately, because of their beliefs?

[GuineaPig]

More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.

Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.

When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.

The study contains other results, but these are sufficient to underline its gist: Atheists are seen by many Americans (especially conservative Christians) as alien and are, in the words of sociologist Penny Edgell, the study's lead researcher, "a glaring exception to the rule of increasing tolerance over the last 30 years."

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1

From a study conducted by the University of Minnesota in 2006.

[73109]

snip

[73109]

The fact that one fourth of that poll believe that Muslims do not contribute to their version of a perfect American society is too saddening to even talk about...same goes for homosexuals. I never understood the hate. I went out to eat a couple of days ago with my mom's friend and husband, and this dude is a fuck nugget. Racist, against other religions, and I told him that one day, I hoped his son and daughters married black muslims and went on about how everyone was anti-semetic, all Muslims should be dead, and all Jews should be anti-Muslim...

See, now, I don't get these people.

[ReaPsTA]

Seriously are people arguing again that atheism by default is a claim of the non-existence of a god or gods? No, it is the lack of a belief in a god(s), it is not a claim. I'll break it down again...

You're acting like the kind of atheist that makes people annoyed by atheists.

Theism is belief in a god
Atheism is lack of a belief in a god

Neither of these things makes sense.  First off, it doesn't help your credibility when you say theism is belief in "a" god, even though a theist can be Hindu or Shinto and believe in multiple gods (although in fairness this isn't the common definition).

Then we get to your definition of atheism.  To at least 90% of people, atheism is believing there is no god/supernatural presence.  Why do you get to tell the rest of the world they're wrong?  Why are you anointed with superior knowledge over the rest of us?

Now, you might say "just because a lot of people believe something, doesn't mean the belief is true."  Fair point.  But I think in this case the rest of the world has it figured out.  Here's the dictionary definition for theism (from dictionary.com):

"belief in the existence of a god or gods"

Dictionary definition for "a" used as a prefix:

prefix meaning "not," from Gk. a-, an-  "not," from PIE base *ne  "not"

Put them together, and you get "not having a belief in the existence of a god or gods." If you don't believe in the existence of a god or gods, it must logically follow you believe they don't exist.  There is no third option.  Atheism is different from "lack of a belief in a god," which doesn't necessarily mean you have a belief in god's non-existence.  That's called being agnostic.  The dictionary skips everything I just wrote and gets to the point, defining atheism as "the doctrine or belief that there is no god" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

Yes we are all born atheists because we do not know of a concept of a god at the time of birth. Why people have such a problem with this concept is beyond me.

People have a problem with this concept because of the assumption atheists usually inject into it: 'If we are born atheists, then being atheist is natural."  Which isn't correct.  Humans sometimes turn to theism because as they grow up and observe their natural surroundings they believe, rightly or wrongly, that a greater force is at work.  Theism is in fact perfectly natural for some people.

As for your question Mr. Wallace, yes atheist do get discriminated against. Have I experienced this no, I have heard of people whom have. My experience is more a disgust or a shocked look on there face as if I just punched there kid.

What?

Seriously it's fucked up how people automatically think everyone is of a religion.

Why is it fucked up?  Religion is:

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. "

Let's think about that definition. Religion is not always "the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies... involving devotional and ritual observances, and... containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

But religion is always "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe."  Atheists generally say the cause of the universe isn't fully knowable, and that we only have what science tells us to go on.  Atheists generally say the nature of the universe is not to act based on a design because there was no creator to come up with a design.  And atheists generally believe no intelligence exists to give purpose to the universe.  How is this not a a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe - which is exactly the same thing as a religion?

Edit: Also agnostics, buddhist and any other religion without gods are in fact atheists.

That's an ignorant mis-characterization of agnosticism and Buddhism.  Agnostics are open to the possibility of a god, and Buddhism is a variety of beliefs - including some that believe in the supernatural.

Maybe you're actually agnostic, but in that case call it what it is.

[ReaPsTA]

Not discrimination. Atheists encounter some people who think their beliefs are ridiculous and will dismiss them offhand on that basis, but everyone's going to encounter an infinity of people who, between them, will think their everything is ridiculous. Hairstyle, shoes, moral code, facial features, accent...

I think people who are offended by swear words are bell-ends. So do many other people. Everyone's got pet peeves, and for some that'll be a belief system that they think is impossibly silly. Discrimination goes beyond dislike, though. It's not like there's a major movement against it. Heck, there are people who really don't like the British. I don't feel discriminated against. Occasionally someone will call me a "tea-drinking pansy" or what-ever. I, in turn, think of them as a "bigoted twat," but it'd be very churlish of me to pretend that that in any way counts as a real problem on anything like the same level as real discrimination.

The president thing's a little scary, and the one thing I've heard of that closest resembles actual discrimination (although of course there are more things in heaven and earth, etc.) - but on the other hand, has that recently been a problem? Has there been a viable presidential candidate who's been turned away, lately, because of their beliefs?

This sounds like one of those things where Britain and America are different.  Virtually every politician in America says they're Christian because they know they'll be screwed if they don't.  Part of me wonders how many people didn't vote for Mitt Romney because he's Mormon.  I think to some degree complaints of religious discrimination are overblown and not put into context, but it does exist.

[slycordinator]

Dictionary definition for "a" used as a prefix:

prefix meaning "not," from Gk. a-, an-  "not," from PIE base *ne  "not"

Put them together, and you get "not having a belief in the existence of a god or gods." If you don't believe in the existence of a god or gods, it must logically follow you believe they don't exist.  There is no third option.  Atheism is different from "lack of a belief in a god," which doesn't necessarily mean you have a belief in god's non-existence.  That's called being agnostic.  The dictionary skips everything I just wrote and gets to the point, defining atheism as "the doctrine or belief that there is no god" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

Not having belief in something doesn't mean believing it to be untrue.

Person A makes a controversial claim.
Person B is unsure if the claim is true.

The person does not have a belief in the claim in question and yet they also do not believe the claim to be false.

Also, I've seen multiple dictionaries that define a- and an- as meaning not, without, and lacking.

[Sigz]

Polls repeated show that an avowed satan-worshipper stands a better change of being elected to public office than an (admitted) atheist.

That's pretty fucked up.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but how in the blue hell does that make any sense??

I think the idea is that they at least believe in something

Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism dude, at least it's an ethos.

[tjanuranus]

Being an Atheist i think i can speak on this one...

An atheist cannot win an election. That alone is more discrimination than racism and sexism because people off all colors and sexes win American elections. The only people i think face similar discrimination are muslims.

I know personally that i cannot share my views with my family. Here is what i mean. My family talks about their beliefs ALL THE TIME. They are christian. I never say anything because they have a right to believe that but as soon as i say ANYTHING about my belief it turns into an argument. The double standard is so ridiculous and that is discrimination. It's the same as how a politician cannot claim to be atheist, they have to pretend not to be. It's fucking ridiculous. Meanwhile atheist are the largest minority group in the united states but can't really say anything. It's such bullshit. Christians run this country and then act like they are persecuted. They have a good scam going to milk people into giving money.

[El JoNNo]

Seriously are people arguing again that atheism by default is a claim of the non-existence of a god or gods? No, it is the lack of a belief in a god(s), it is not a claim. I'll break it down again...

You're acting like the kind of atheist that makes people annoyed by atheists.

Perhaps I am.

Neither of these things makes sense.  First off, it doesn't help your credibility when you say theism is belief in "a" god, even though a theist can be Hindu or Shinto and believe in multiple gods (although in fairness this isn't the common definition).

I agree with you definition, I neglected to make it singular and plural.

Then we get to your definition of atheism.  To at least 90% of people, atheism is believing there is no god/supernatural presence.  Why do you get to tell the rest of the world they're wrong?  Why are you anointed with superior knowledge over the rest of us?

Now, you might say "just because a lot of people believe something, doesn't mean the belief is true."  Fair point.  But I think in this case the rest of the world has it figured out.  Here's the dictionary definition for theism (from dictionary.com):

"belief in the existence of a god or gods"

Dictionary definition for "a" used as a prefix:

prefix meaning "not," from Gk. a-, an-  "not," from PIE base *ne  "not"

Put them together, and you get "not having a belief in the existence of a god or gods." If you don't believe in the existence of a god or gods, it must logically follow you believe they don't exist.  There is no third option.  Atheism is different from "lack of a belief in a god," which doesn't necessarily mean you have a belief in god's non-existence.  That's called being agnostic.  The dictionary skips everything I just wrote and gets to the point, defining atheism as "the doctrine or belief that there is no god" and "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

First 2 lines sum it up

And you are partially right about the prefix "a". It means no/not/without.

Atheism is a response to a claim; someone claims there is a god, atheist reject it. Gnostic and agnostic are merely subcategories.

People have a problem with this concept because of the assumption atheists usually inject into it: 'If we are born atheists, then being atheist is natural."  Which isn't correct.  Humans sometimes turn to theism because as they grow up and observe their natural surroundings they believe, rightly or wrongly, that a greater force is at work.  Theism is in fact perfectly natural for some people.

Being atheist is natural; it is the default, theism is not the default. That the way it is regardless. Being convinced one way or another is also natural.  Guess the problem is others insecurities.

What?

Not sure what you don't understand here? I stated the negative remarks from people as my experience. I would necessarily/fully catagorize it as discrimitation.

Seriously it's fucked up how people automatically think everyone is of a religion.

Why is it fucked up?  Religion is:

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. "

Let's think about that definition. Religion is not always "the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies... involving devotional and ritual observances, and... containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

But religion is always "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe."  Atheists generally say the cause of the universe isn't fully knowable, and that we only have what science tells us to go on.  Atheists generally say the nature of the universe is not to act based on a design because there was no creator to come up with a design.  And atheists generally believe no intelligence exists to give purpose to the universe.  How is this not a a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe - which is exactly the same thing as a religion?

Saying one is an atheist says nothing about their beliefs, ideas, opinion etc... About existence, sorry it doesn't. I've met atheists whom are for and against the big bang theory, for and against evolution, homosexual rights. I've met atheists that believe in karma and luck. There are atheists who believe in life after death, reincarnation (*cough* buddhists *cough*).

My point is atheism is not a world view of any kind not a belief about how the universe came to be it is a response to a claim a lack of belief. Whether an atheist has about it through science, is pissed off about a certain religion, their logic/reason or merely has never crossed there mind that there might be a god. Not a religion...

That's an ignorant mis-characterization of agnosticism and Buddhism.  Agnostics are open to the possibility of a god, and Buddhism is a variety of beliefs - including some that believe in the supernatural.

Maybe you're actually agnostic, but in that case call it what it is.

I am open to there being a god, if that is what the evidence leads to. I call it atheism and that is what it is. As I said above agnostism is a subcatagory of atheism.

Being an Atheist i think i can speak on this one...

An atheist cannot win an election. That alone is more discrimination than racism and sexism because people off all colors and sexes win American elections. The only people i think face similar discrimination are muslims.

I know personally that i cannot share my views with my family. Here is what i mean. My family talks about their beliefs ALL THE TIME. They are christian. I never say anything because they have a right to believe that but as soon as i say ANYTHING about my belief it turns into an argument. The double standard is so ridiculous and that is discrimination. It's the same as how a politician cannot claim to be atheist, they have to pretend not to be. It's fucking ridiculous. Meanwhile atheist are the largest minority group in the united states but can't really say anything. It's such bullshit. Christians run this country and then act like they are persecuted. They have a good scam going to milk people into giving money.

From what I have seen of the states, I would agree.

[slycordinator]

As I said above agnostism is a subcatagory of atheism.

That's not true. Atheism deal with belief and agnosticism deals with knowledge. A person can be a theist (believing in a god or gods) while being agnostic (not having direct proof/knowledge of their existence).