Blaming The President For The State Of The Economy

[Tick]

So many want to say the mess were in was caused by Bush. Others say, were past that, its on Obama now.
I think people give way to much credence to how an economy does due to the current president in office.
 He really is such a minuscule factor overall.
The economy has failed under Democrats and Republicans. It has also succeeded under both. It really makes little difference.
The current economy is in far worse shape then either party can fix anytime soon, but when and if it does turn around, the credit will be given to the party in charge.
The economy turns when its ready to turn.
The economy was week under Bush. Its still struggling on Obama's watch, and guess what, It will still be in the tank regardless of who wins the election next year.

Do you believe the president gets too much credit or blame, or do you think its pretty fair overall?

[skydivingninja]

Its just how we look at things in the past, I think, that lead us to "assign blame/give praise" to presidents who break or fix the economy.  I agree that in many cases, its not a president's fault that the economy goes in the toilet.  The Great Depression and the Housing Crisis wasn't exactly caused by presidential action, though conditions didn't get any better (or got much worse, IMO, in Bush's case) under some of those presidents.  However, there is a reason that the party in charge will get the credit when the economy turns around, because they have to make some kind of policy to get us back on track.  FDR's praise is well-deserved, for instance, because he actually did stuff to help us out (and having a world war didn't hurt either), while the three presidents before him just couldn't get out of their little funk, so to speak.  So we put blame on Bush Jr. and Obama because they haven't gotten us out.  We praise Clinton because he helped get us out of the last one.  

[j]

I agree with the OP, for the most part.  Significant economic changes tend to often be slowly developing and long-term, and I think the current president rarely has much to do with the state of the economy while he is in office.

That doesn't mean his policies can't have an effect on the economy, just that by and large, we may not feel it until several years down the road.

-J

[gmillerdrake]

I'd agree with the OP. Finger pointing and passing the blame is way easier than bucking up and trying to solve the problem at hand.

[yeshaberto]

my limited understanding of the economy is that there are hundreds of outside variables that play a role.
so, while it is natural to look to the leader for praise/blame, it really isn't accurate

[PlaysLikeMyung]

my limited understanding of the economy is that there are hundreds of outside variables that play a role.
so, while it is natural to look to the leader for praise/blame, it really isn't accurate

This

[ReaPsTA]

Here's my thing.  Either the president's responsible or he's not.  Don't say the current state of the economy is Bush's fault, but its continued stagnation is outside Obama's control.  It doesn't work both ways.

[El Barto]

Here's my thing.  Either the president's responsible or he's not.  Don't say the current state of the economy is Bush's fault, but its continued stagnation is outside Obama's control.  It doesn't work both ways.

Sure it can.  I agree with the OP that lumping all the blame on one person is simplistic,  but it's easily possible for the blame to be on the instigator and not the follower.  It's a simple matter of inheriting an unwinnable situation. 

[rumborak]

I don't know whether Bush could have averted the financial crash or not, what he is to fault for however is that he wasted his energy in instigating wars and passing laws about stem cells that only served to outsource the knowledge to other countries.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

over taxing us like Obama.. Cap and Trade, and Amnesty , Obamacare..experiration of the Bush tax cuts ...

Thats the ticket..


Nah...this is all Obama... Im tired of " he inherited such a mess" he DID NOT.. thats a liberal falasy that the economy was soo bad under GWB. it was NOT. and GWB did a great job post 9/11.

Socialism is failure.. Obama is failure. it never has worked, it cant work, its not working.

Stem Cells? this is a joke, all GWB said was " keep govement out of these ethical issues".. Obama is pro late term abortion..that costs money and never should be allowed...

[PlaysLikeMyung]

over taxing us like Obama.. Cap and Trade, and Amnesty , Obamacare..experiration of the Bush tax cuts ...

I don't mean to nitpick, but none of these things actually happened. And actually he continued the tax cuts.

[Tick]

I don't know whether Bush could have averted the financial crash or not, what he is to fault for however is that he wasted his energy in instigating wars and passing laws about stem cells that only served to outsource the knowledge to other countries.

rumborak

Way to immediately go off topic for your own agenda.
and obviously Bush couldn't have averted the financial crash. Was he handing out bad loans and I didn't hear about it?
How about you give your feelings about the subject of the thread?

[EPICVIEW]

over taxing us like Obama.. Cap and Trade, and Amnesty , Obamacare..experiration of the Bush tax cuts ...

I don't mean to nitpick, but none of these things actually happened. And actually he continued the tax cuts.

 Obama is going to allow them to expire...all this looms, and will happen if he is re-elected ( God Forbid).  Cap and Trade is happening as we speak, I was just in a meeting about this all morning.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

over taxing us like Obama.. Cap and Trade, and Amnesty , Obamacare..experiration of the Bush tax cuts ...

I don't mean to nitpick, but none of these things actually happened. And actually he continued the tax cuts.

 Obama is going to allow them to expire...all this looms, and will happen if he is re-elected ( God Forbid).  Cap and Trade is happening as we speak, I was just in a meeting about this all morning.

He already had the opportunity to allow them to expire and opted to continue them. Are you just totally ignoring that?

[skydivingninja]

Nah...this is all Obama... Im tired of " he inherited such a mess" he DID NOT.. thats a liberal falasy that the economy was soo bad under GWB. it was NOT. and GWB did a great job post 9/11.

You know the housing bubble burst and we had the huge fall in the stock market around August/September 2008, right?  Bush was still in office.  Then they starting throwing around the phrase "too big to fail," again under Bush.  So yes, technically, the economy was pretty damn bad under Bush.  He didn't initially cause it, but his immediate reactions sure didn't help, and its something I can't defend him for at all.  

Tick: I think Rumbo's point was that there are things you actually CAN blame presidents for, but economic crises usually aren't one of them.

[PraXis]

He extended the tax cuts, so thankfully, I keep more money that I earned. Unfortunately, the EPA is running around trying to screw us up even more (which will make energy prices skyrocket for the poor/middle class).... there's a spending problem, and neither Obama or Bush addressed that issue.

[7StringedBeast]

Yes.  There is a spending problem.  America has been living beyond its means.  We need to make cuts.  We need to accept that we can't have everything until we can afford it.  We can't afford it.  First thing that needs to happen is serious cuts across the board, and then rebuild to get back to where we were.

America needs to start making something again.  We need new ideas, innovations, and inventions.  Then we need to produce and support them in the United States.  This is the best way and only real way (non superficial or band-aid type fix) that can help.

[EPICVIEW]

He extended the tax cuts, so thankfully, I keep more money that I earned. Unfortunately, the EPA is running around trying to screw us up even more (which will make energy prices skyrocket for the poor/middle class).... there's a spending problem, and neither Obama or Bush addressed that issue.

rumor is Obama is not going to extend them ..

[PraXis]

He extended the tax cuts, so thankfully, I keep more money that I earned. Unfortunately, the EPA is running around trying to screw us up even more (which will make energy prices skyrocket for the poor/middle class).... there's a spending problem, and neither Obama or Bush addressed that issue.

rumor is Obama is not going to extend them ..

He won't be re-elected so no worries.

[Scheavo]

He extended the tax cuts, so thankfully, I keep more money that I earned. Unfortunately, the EPA is running around trying to screw us up even more (which will make energy prices skyrocket for the poor/middle class).... there's a spending problem, and neither Obama or Bush addressed that issue.

As for Obama, it would have been horribly wrong for Obama to not spend money when he came into office. In times of a recession / depression, the government needs to step up expenditures. This is the accepted economic theory, and it has sound logic behind it (funding infrastructure gives temporary employment to poor people, who then spend that money to create demand, which then creates jobs, which can start the economy rolling again, and employ those temporary worker when the infrastructure jobs end). Obama couldn't cut expenditures when he came into office, not without wrecking the economy.

Ironically, I still trust him to cut costs more than any republican. Health care reform was done to try and curb horribly rising costs, so one reason we need actual heal care reform (i.e. medicare for all) is to cut down on government expenditures. He needs to end the wars as well though, not create two more.

And tick, just so ya know, we agree.

[EPICVIEW]

He extended the tax cuts, so thankfully, I keep more money that I earned. Unfortunately, the EPA is running around trying to screw us up even more (which will make energy prices skyrocket for the poor/middle class).... there's a spending problem, and neither Obama or Bush addressed that issue.

rumor is Obama is not going to extend them ..

He won't be re-elected so no worries.

I worry about him using Amnesty to back fill the lost votes of the educated of who he is

[eric42434224]

Blaming any President for the state of the economy shows a serious lack of understanding of the immensity and complexity of the US Economy, and its unbelievable entanglements globally.  It also shows a lack of understanding of what type of influence a President really has.  Does he and his policies have some influence?  Sure.  But to blame the state of the economy on one person is more likely due to a willing ignorance of the facts of the matter in order to direct blame to a President they just emotionally dont like.

[El Barto]

I worry about him using Amnesty to back fill the lost votes of the educated of who he is

Traditionally, Mexicans vote Republican.  That's a longstanding thing.  Furthermore, legal Mexicans quite often oppose amnesty or increased immigration.  Once they're already here, they turn to the Tick school of thinking that says we don't need any more showing up.

[7StringedBeast]

I worry about him using Amnesty to back fill the lost votes of the educated of who he is

Traditionally, Mexicans vote Republican.  That's a longstanding thing.  Furthermore, legal Mexicans quite often oppose amnesty or increased immigration.  Once they're already here, they turn to the Tick school of thinking that says we don't need any more showing up.

Really?  First let me ask, do Mexicans count as the "Latin Vote"?  Because if they are, I always thought the Latin vote went democrat.

[eric42434224]

Down here in South Florida, the Latino vote is definitely segmented.  For instance, the Cuban vote is very Republican.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I worry about him using Amnesty to back fill the lost votes of the educated of who he is

Traditionally, Mexicans vote Republican.  That's a longstanding thing.  Furthermore, legal Mexicans quite often oppose amnesty or increased immigration.  Once they're already here, they turn to the Tick school of thinking that says we don't need any more showing up.

Really?  First let me ask, do Mexicans count as the "Latin Vote"?  Because if they are, I always thought the Latin vote went democrat.

Yep, and traditionally they vote republican. I attribute it to their religiosity, but I'm not 100% sure of that

[7StringedBeast]

This is all news to me because I always thought the latin vote went democrat.

[PraXis]

Legal Latins tend to vote GOP because they absolutely HATE the illegals that make them look bad.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Legal Latins tend to vote GOP because they absolutely HATE the illegals that make them look bad.

I'm not sure that's the reason

[El Barto]

I always assumed it was that whole Catholic thing, but there's probably some merit to Praxis's notion as well.  Like I said, my take on it has been that the legal ones don't want any more coming over, legal or otherwise.  All tho Hispanics I've worked with have been staunchly anti-alien. 

Truth be told, since this is Texas, Latins mean Mexicans to me, so I'm really not sure about Cubans or Peurto Ricans.  However, the Catholic part would still apply.  

[PraXis]

Legal Latins tend to vote GOP because they absolutely HATE the illegals that make them look bad.

I'm not sure that's the reason

It's like that with Polish (my heritage), Russian, and other legal Euro residents.. most of us cannot stand the illegals that come from our countries, but they're no where near as many as the Mexican illegals.

[AcidLameLTE]

Stem Cells? this is a joke, all GWB said was " keep govement out of these ethical issues"..

Didn't he ban stem cell research?

[7StringedBeast]

Stem Cells? this is a joke, all GWB said was " keep govement out of these ethical issues"..

Didn't he ban stem cell research?

No just federal funding for it.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

And so government WAS involved in those ethical issues under GWB

[Tick]

Get back on topic before your all banned!