Connecticut Passes Bill Giving College Aid To Illegal Immigrants

[ricky]

i have to be honest, what bothers me the most is that while there is legislation being enacted giving illegals tuition benefits, about 90% of us students that are living here legally (such as myself) still have difficulties paying for college. i don't get it.

...because, most likely, they haven't been offered the opportunity to make anything else of themselves. Just think of the possibilities a college education would offer!

why can't they make something of themselves in their own country?




edit + second part

[Tick]

i have to be honest, what bothers me the most is that while there is legislation being enacted giving illegals tuition benefits, about 90% of us students that are living here legally (such as myself) still have difficulties paying for college. i don't get it.

...because, most likely, they haven't been offered the opportunity to make anything else of themselves. Just think of the possibilities a college education would offer!

why can't they make something of themselves in their own country?




edit + second part

Right on, Ricky!

Being an illegal immigrant basically says, don't become a citizen the right way, its to much work. Just enter the country illegally and you can skip all that nonsense and still get rewarded for it!

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I dunno ricky, but I think it has something to do with limited opportunities in second and third world countries whose economy/job market are even worse than ours.

Maybe you can try living in a second/third world country and tell me how things go for you

[ricky]

I dunno ricky, but I think it has something to do with limited opportunities in second and third world countries whose economy/job market are even worse than ours.

Maybe you can try living in a second/third world country and tell me how things go for you

i realize that, but that doesn't mean i have the responsibility to pay for them, especially when i have no money.

[King Postwhore]

PLM, I agree that some countries don't have the opportunities that we do here but I'd like them to get a green card.  But in all honesty it's not the end of the world but I would hope people would take the legal road.

[El Barto]

I dunno ricky, but I think it has something to do with limited opportunities in second and third world countries whose economy/job market are even worse than ours. living in a fucking war zone because of silly and ill-conceived US policy.

[PraXis]

They will self deport if you strictly enforce E-Verify.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

PLM, I agree that some countries don't have the opportunities that we do here but I'd like them to get a green card.  But in all honesty it's not the end of the world but I would hope people would take the legal road.

As do I. Obviously I'd prefer if they were here legally too. But I still don't have a problem with it.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Being an illegal immigrant basically says, don't become a citizen the right way, its to much work. Just enter the country illegally and you can skip all that nonsense and still get rewarded for it!

Or an unfortunate lack of business/family connections.  You know, immigrant visa numbers are limited.  Quite obviously it's not just immigrants being too lazy to go through the legal immigration process, because it's not a very kind one.  It's often simply a matter of having the right connections, which many don't have. 

But this is all besides the point, because you're still using the word "reward."   Connecticut is not rewarding illegal immigrants as much as it is giving them the opportunity to get an education and become contributory citizens.  It's not like you're seeing them get exclusive aid for being illegal. 

[Quadrochosis]

America was founded on illegal immigration, just ask the Native Americans!

[zxlkho]

America was founded on illegal immigration, just ask the Native Americans!

tr00f

[Zook]

Even if the parents are here illegally, aren't their kids that are born here, legal, because they are born here?

Sorry I couldn't word that any better...

[Quadrochosis]

Even if the parents are here illegally, aren't their kids that are born here, legal, because they are born here?

Sorry I couldn't word that any better...

Yes. So they aren't even illegal. But I think the article is talking about children that have been brought here after they were born.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Being an illegal immigrant basically says, don't become a citizen the right way, its to much work. Just enter the country illegally and you can skip all that nonsense and still get rewarded for it!

Wow, I sense a lot of ignorance in this statement. And I'm sure it's not your fault. But I know a bunch of illegal families and they're not lazy. Do you want to know why most of them don't strive for citizenship actively? Because the way our system stands, it's almost impossible anymore. You need a green card, or work visa, or student visa. You can't get a work visa unless you can find work and you can't get a student visa unless you can afford school. Green cards are just as hard to get. https://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

It's easier to work here under the table than it is to go through a bunch of bureaucratic bullcrap. But at least most of them work. And they use the money, for the most part, on items here in the US, which helps our economy, if only slightly.

[Quadrochosis]

Good point, as many poster's before have stated, they buy into the US Economy, as well as pay taxes on their income (unless that's off the books) and they pay rent which includes property tax.

Sure, a lot send money home, but hey, wouldn't you do the same?

If you have a family to feed, you're not going to sit on your ass and be sorry for yourself and say "oh, it's too hard to get a job in America legally, so I'll just let my family starve." I'm sure most people do what it takes, and if the law says otherwise, then so be it.

We're all humans first and Americans second.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

We're all humans first and Americans second.

I love you

[Quadrochosis]

We're all humans first and Americans second.

I love you

I love you too

[El Barto]

We're all humans first and Americans second.

Why do you hate America?

Being an illegal immigrant basically says, don't become a citizen the right way, its to much work. Just enter the country illegally and you can skip all that nonsense and still get rewarded for it!

Wow, I sense a lot of ignorance in this statement. And I'm sure it's not your fault. But I know a bunch of illegal families and they're not lazy. Do you want to know why most of them don't strive for citizenship actively? Because the way our system stands, it's almost impossible anymore. You need a green card, or work visa, or student visa. You can't get a work visa unless you can find work and you can't get a student visa unless you can afford school. Green cards are just as hard to get. https://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

It's easier to work here under the table than it is to go through a bunch of bureaucratic bullcrap. But at least most of them work. And they use the money, for the most part, on items here in the US, which helps our economy, if only slightly.

On top of that, I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise that living here illegally isn't exactly a cakewalk.  I'm not saying that it's right, but you make it sound like they're just taking the lazy shortcut.  Trying to work and raise a kid who might want to go to college while constantly dodging The Man is probably a pretty stressful way to live.  Personally, I'd rather try to go the bureaucratic route and not have to worry all the time, but it would appear that's even a worse choice.

[Tick]

Being an illegal immigrant basically says, don't become a citizen the right way, its to much work. Just enter the country illegally and you can skip all that nonsense and still get rewarded for it!

Wow, I sense a lot of ignorance in this statement. And I'm sure it's not your fault. But I know a bunch of illegal families and they're not lazy. Do you want to know why most of them don't strive for citizenship actively? Because the way our system stands, it's almost impossible anymore. You need a green card, or work visa, or student visa. You can't get a work visa unless you can find work and you can't get a student visa unless you can afford school. Green cards are just as hard to get. https://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

It's easier to work here under the table than it is to go through a bunch of bureaucratic bullcrap. But at least most of them work. And they use the money, for the most part, on items here in the US, which helps our economy, if only slightly.

Hey, not to be ignorant, but perhaps they can just stay where they are at rather then break the law and enter the country illegally. There's a thought.
You can all sympathize with these people all you want. You can bring up the point they live in oppressed country's with little hope or opportunity. It doesn't matter because at the end of the day, they are criminals and that's the fact, Jack.

[hefdaddy42]

If there are provisos in the bill to ensure that by certain points in time they must have made certain amounts of progress towards attaining citizenship in order to maintain their in-state tuition rate, then I'd be OK with it. 

[Perpetual Change]

If there are provisos in the bill to ensure that by certain points in time they must have made certain amounts of progress towards attaining citizenship in order to maintain their in-state tuition rate, then I'd be OK with it.  

I'd imagine the root of the problem lies more in the fact that citizenship is already so hard to obtain its pretty much one of the most unAmerican things about America.

We really should be more hospitable to our Southern neighbors than we are. If someone's lived here most of their life, successfully applied to college and asking for government aid, why not just assume their citizenship?

[hefdaddy42]

If there are provisos in the bill to ensure that by certain points in time they must have made certain amounts of progress towards attaining citizenship in order to maintain their in-state tuition rate, then I'd be OK with it.  

I'd imagine the root of the problem lies more in the fact that citizenship is already so hard to obtain its pretty much one of the most unAmerican things about America.

We really should be more hospitable to our Southern neighbors than we are. If someone's lived here most of their life, successfully applied to college and asking for government aid, why not just assume their citizenship?

Why should it be that easy?  Why can't they just apply to be citizens?  I don't see what is un-American about immigrants attaining citizenship.  It happens every day.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Why should it be that easy?  Why can't they just apply to be citizens?  I don't see what is un-American about immigrants attaining citizenship.  It happens every day.

Because you don't just apply to be a citizen and become a citizen.  For many, you're looking at years and years of trying to get through the immigration system, and it only might work out for you in the end based on your connections inside the U.S.  The immigration system is fucked, and the least that we can do is aid those who are already over here to get their opportunity to do well just like anyone else. 

[hefdaddy42]

Why should it be that easy?  Why can't they just apply to be citizens?  I don't see what is un-American about immigrants attaining citizenship.  It happens every day.

Because you don't just apply to be a citizen and become a citizen.  For many, you're looking at years and years of trying to get through the immigration system, and it only might work out for you in the end based on your connections inside the U.S.  The immigration system is fucked, and the least that we can do is aid those who are already over here to get their opportunity to do well just like anyone else. 

I know that it's not easy.  I know it should be improved.  But I don't see why we should reward people who are, by definition, breaking the law by just waving a wand and saying "You're a citizen" without making them do anything.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Waving a citizen wand is a separate issue, but I think that four years spent in high school, the conditions for receiving the tuition, is certainly time enough for an immigrant, illegal or not, to deserve aid with education, if not other things.  Also, supporting immigrants with a good work ethic isn't sending any sort of bad message whatever.  It's not like a conditional benefit like this is going to be a major driving factor for illegal immigrants to come over. 

You can all sympathize with these people all you want. You can bring up the point they live in oppressed country's with little hope or opportunity. It doesn't matter because at the end of the day, they are criminals and that's the fact, Jack.

That's an absurdly black-and-white way to see it.  So the people who ended up with the short straw should just stay put and be happy about it, because otherwise they'd be intruding with their silly goals of steady support for their children and a shot at education.  Ok.

[Quadrochosis]

perhaps they can just stay where they are

Hey man, no need to get so upset over this. They're just humans like you and me, looking for the best possible way to provide for their families. Wouldn't you do the same?

Besides, what does a little piece of paper that says "I'm an American!" have that's so special that it gets people so up in arms? From my perspective, the person who travels to this country from elsewhere and breaks their back doing hard work to support their families is more of an American than the people that sit on the other side of the fence and keep them away because they're brown. (NOTE: Not calling tick that at all, simply using two [semi] extremes to make a point. Again, NOT implying tick is a racist or anything.)

[Sigz]

Why should it be that easy?  Why can't they just apply to be citizens?  I don't see what is un-American about immigrants attaining citizenship.  It happens every day.

Because you don't just apply to be a citizen and become a citizen.  For many, you're looking at years and years of trying to get through the immigration system, and it only might work out for you in the end based on your connections inside the U.S.  The immigration system is fucked, and the least that we can do is aid those who are already over here to get their opportunity to do well just like anyone else. 

I know that it's not easy.  I know it should be improved.  But I don't see why we should reward people who are, by definition, breaking the law by just waving a wand and saying "You're a citizen" without making them do anything.

I don't think anyone here was advocating simply granting citizenship.

[King Postwhore]

Me personally, I'm not upset but I'd wish there would be a way to have them become legalized to accept the aid.  That would be a great way to promote taking the test.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Me personally, I'm not upset but I'd wish there would be a way to have them become legalized to accept the aid.  That would be a great way to promote taking the test.

It would be a great way in theory, but not with the current difficulties for legally immigrating nowadays.  As I mentioned before, it can take years to finally get approved and given a Visa number, and for some it never happens.  It's mostly luck and connections, certainly not just a test. 

And 4 years of high school isn't exactly a walk-in.  I'd say it's highly likely that anyone working towards a college education has plans to become a legal citizen somewhere down the line, but if it simply doesn't happen in time for them it'd be a shame for them to miss out on a good education just because of that.

[Quadrochosis]

And 4 years of high school isn't exactly a walk-in.  I'd say it's highly likely that anyone working towards a college education has plans to become a legal citizen somewhere down the line, but if it simply doesn't happen in time for them it'd be a shame for them to miss out on a good education just because of that.

This. While I'd favor the legal way when possible, it just makes more sense and benefits every side more when we do it this way.

[ricky]

If there are provisos in the bill to ensure that by certain points in time they must have made certain amounts of progress towards attaining citizenship in order to maintain their in-state tuition rate, then I'd be OK with it.  

I'd imagine the root of the problem lies more in the fact that citizenship is already so hard to obtain its pretty much one of the most unAmerican things about America.

We really should be more hospitable to our Southern neighbors than we are. If someone's lived here most of their life, successfully applied to college and asking for government aid, why not just assume their citizenship?

you don't have to be a citizen to live here legally.

[Perpetual Change]

Why should it be that easy?  Why can't they just apply to be citizens?  I don't see what is un-American about immigrants attaining citizenship.  It happens every day.

Because you don't just apply to be a citizen and become a citizen.  For many, you're looking at years and years of trying to get through the immigration system, and it only might work out for you in the end based on your connections inside the U.S.  The immigration system is fucked, and the least that we can do is aid those who are already over here to get their opportunity to do well just like anyone else.  

I know that it's not easy.  I know it should be improved.  But I don't see why we should reward people who are, by definition, breaking the law by just waving a wand and saying "You're a citizen" without making them do anything.

I don't think anyone here was advocating simply granting citizenship.

Maybe I'm being a bit idealistic and/or ridiculous, but I honestly don't see why not.

But, yeah, reform is what I was talking about. And reform that makes it easier, specifically.

And, to make another point, I don't really get this idea that illegal immigrants are people who just crossed the boarder last month and now are expecting government aid to attend colleges. I think they're most likely people who've been here since childhood or their teens, and haven't actively broken the law. But I could be completely wrong about that.

[Orbert]

Yeah it's hard, yeah it takes a long time to become a citizen.  Better get started on it, then.

I don't have a problem with people who are at least trying to do the right thing.  It's the ones who've been skating for a while, long enough to raise kids to college age, and still haven't even started the process.  I have no numbers and honestly don't give enough of a shit to look it up, but I wonder how many illegals are even in the process of applying, and how many just bought some IDs from Juan two blocks over and haven't done jack since then to improve their position.

[Perpetual Change]

I was under the impression we were talking about college students, not their parents.

[Orbert]

The discussion has encompassed many subtopics.  People are saying that the children of illegals shouldn't be punished because they're innocents.  This is true, but it's also true that no one is punishing them.  And it's also true that if they weren't born here, then they too are illegals.

So it still goes back to their parents.  Their parents came here for reasons known only to them, but if the idea was to give their children a better future or any of that wonderful idealistic crap, then how hard were they trying to give them a better future if they never did anything to legitimize them?