Connecticut Passes Bill Giving College Aid To Illegal Immigrants

[ClairvoyantCat]

But what about those people who wanted the slaves to be sent back to Africa after they were freed? Those ex-Slaves weren't citizens, after all.

I don't think this is a very fair comparison, really.  I'd say the contentions are entirely different, because we didn't forcibly take the immigrants and put them here. 

[Tick]

In my personal opinion, it certainly a little credulous to dismiss everything that is illegal as being wrong. 

For an obvious reference, helping slaves escape was against the law back in the day but it certainly wasn't the wrong thing to do. 

That's a bad analogy in my opinion. Slaves were exactly that...slaves. Illegal immigrants illegally enter a country. Good or bad, they have a homeland. They are not slaves. They also are not owed any rights for breaking the law. Like it or don't, that statement is reality.
We could go back and forth about this. You can be sympathetic to them as much as you wish. That sentiment is your own, as my thoughts which by now should be pretty clear, are mine.

One thing that pissed me off in this thread is the suggestion I am racist. That is just wrong and unjustified. I have said absolutley nothing to suggest that.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

In my personal opinion, it certainly a little credulous to dismiss everything that is illegal as being wrong. 

For an obvious reference, helping slaves escape was against the law back in the day but it certainly wasn't the wrong thing to do. 

That's a bad analogy in my opinion. Slaves were exactly that...slaves. Illegal immigrants illegally enter a country. Good or bad, they have a homeland. They are not slaves. They also are not owed any rights for breaking the law. Like it or don't, that statement is reality.

He wasn't talking about the slaves themselves. He was talking about the people who helped them.

[ClairvoyantCat]

In my personal opinion, it certainly a little credulous to dismiss everything that is illegal as being wrong. 

For an obvious reference, helping slaves escape was against the law back in the day but it certainly wasn't the wrong thing to do. 

That's a bad analogy in my opinion. Slaves were exactly that...slaves. Illegal immigrants illegally enter a country. Good or bad, they have a homeland. They are not slaves. They also are not owed any rights for breaking the law. Like it or don't, that statement is reality.

I sort of meant to take it to an extreme to show why I disagreed with the whole "ILLEGAL!  END OF STORY" argument that tick made.  I wasn't trying to draw a point of comparison between immigration and slavery or anything.  I just think it's silly to brand their side of things as wrong simply because it's against the law, that's all.

[Tick]

In my personal opinion, it certainly a little credulous to dismiss everything that is illegal as being wrong. 

For an obvious reference, helping slaves escape was against the law back in the day but it certainly wasn't the wrong thing to do. 

That's a bad analogy in my opinion. Slaves were exactly that...slaves. Illegal immigrants illegally enter a country. Good or bad, they have a homeland. They are not slaves. They also are not owed any rights for breaking the law. Like it or don't, that statement is reality.

He wasn't talking about the slaves themselves. He was talking about the people who helped them.

Ok then, should a person see there neighbors house being robbed and walk up and say...

"Hi there, need any help? Would you like me to show you where they keep the good silver wear?"

[skydivingninja]

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?   

[Adami]

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?   

Actually in this case I think he is comparing the illegal immigrants to the robbers and the money we're giving them to the silver wear.

[lateralus88]

What if they were stealing from Hitler's house?

[Adami]

What if they were stealing from Hitler's house?

I'd just like to point out that you just accidentally compared Obama to Hitler.

[skydivingninja]

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?  

Actually in this case I think he is comparing the illegal immigrants to the robbers and the money we're giving them to the silver wear.

I thought he was referring to the robbers as those who helped slaves escape, since that bit of CC's original post was clarified by Will and he gave an analogy in response to that clarification.

[ClairvoyantCat]

This whole thing is based off of a misinterpreted analogy.  

As I said, I wasn't drawing a comparison between illegal immigrants and slavery.  I was using it in a reductio ad absurdum kind of way for the issue of whether something against the law was wrong or not.  

I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of doubt that Tick was referring to immigrants as silverware and not slaves

[Adami]

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?  

Actually in this case I think he is comparing the illegal immigrants to the robbers and the money we're giving them to the silver wear.

I thought he was referring to the robbers as those who helped slaves escape, since that bit of CC's original post was clarified by Will and he gave an analogy in response to that clarification.

Maybe, but I think the person helping the robber (the you in his analogy) would be the person helping the slaves.


Or something. Tick, maybe I'm getting this wrong, am I?

[lateralus88]

What if they were stealing from Hitler's house?

I'd just like to point out that you just accidentally compared Obama to Hitler.

Not the point I was making, but sure why not.

[skydivingninja]

I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of doubt that Tick was referring to immigrants as silverware and not slaves

Well if that's the case (not sure if it is till Tick comes in and clarifies something ) here's my response:

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?   

[TL]

I don't need to dignify an answer to your question because it isn't relevant to the discussion, because it...NEVER HAPPENS!!!!

Yes it does. It happens all the time in capitalism. There's even a term for it; predatory pricing.
It's extremely common for people to try to be more competitive by offering lower prices than the competition. Many legal citizens do so.

[Quadrochosis]

I don't need to dignify an answer to your question because it isn't relevant to the discussion, because it...NEVER HAPPENS!!!!

I am not saying that tick applies to this, but I'd be willing to bet a fairly large portion of the really vocal camp that is so dead set against illegal immigration are probably in that camp for racist reasons, at least in part. At least where I live (Long Island) there is a ton of racism that is apparent in the immigration rhetoric.

[TL]

Ok then, should a person see there neighbors house being robbed and walk up and say...

"Hi there, need any help? Would you like me to show you where they keep the good silver wear?"

But see, with robbery, there's automatically a victim. The very act itself causes someone harm.
With illegal immigration, there isn't automatically harm done. Many illegal immigrants get jobs, pay taxes, and become law abiding, productive members of society. The act of immigrating illegally doesn't automatically harm anyone.

[ricky]

this whole argument is ridiculous. if illegal immigrants aren't allowed to protect the country they are getting benefits from, something is deeply screwed up with this government.

in case you didn't know, illegal immigrants are not allowed to serve in the armed forces. legal, non-citizens are, however, which is much different than being illegal. the day they are allowed to serve is the day i will admit they deserve benefits. until then, i am 100% against it.

[Tick]

I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of doubt that Tick was referring to immigrants as silverware and not slaves

Well if that's the case (not sure if it is till Tick comes in and clarifies something ) here's my response:

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?   

Do I really need to clarify what I meant there?

[Tick]

For me one of the biggest problem is jobs. Illegal immigrants take jobs away from people in an already jobless economy. The cliche is, "they do the jobs nobody wants" I don't buy into that. Its not as simplistic as that. Nothing ever is.
Many small business owners(building, flooring, roofing, etc) love to hire illegal aliens because it greatly increases there profit margins in multiple ways. They can pay them poorly and they will work there asses off for hours. There are many ways they save, including health insurance.
I know plenty of builders who have them working for them.
I'm sure there are a couple homeless people that wouldn't mind a few of these jobs?
Of course the thread is about college aid, but it all boils down to helping people out who are doing things the wrong way.
 

[Tick]

Ok then, should a person see there neighbors house being robbed and walk up and say...

"Hi there, need any help? Would you like me to show you where they keep the good silver wear?"

But see, with robbery, there's automatically a victim. The very act itself causes someone harm.
With illegal immigration, there isn't automatically harm done. Many illegal immigrants get jobs, pay taxes, and become law abiding, productive members of society. The act of immigrating illegally doesn't automatically harm anyone.

Yes it does. It 100% does. Jobs my friend...jobs.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Ok then, should a person see there neighbors house being robbed and walk up and say...

"Hi there, need any help? Would you like me to show you where they keep the good silver wear?"

But see, with robbery, there's automatically a victim. The very act itself causes someone harm.
With illegal immigration, there isn't automatically harm done. Many illegal immigrants get jobs, pay taxes, and become law abiding, productive members of society. The act of immigrating illegally doesn't automatically harm anyone.

Yes it does. It 100% does. Jobs my friend...jobs.

If we didn't already have data for it, would you automatically assume that illegal immigrants are taking jobs?

[Tick]

Ok then, should a person see there neighbors house being robbed and walk up and say...

"Hi there, need any help? Would you like me to show you where they keep the good silver wear?"

But see, with robbery, there's automatically a victim. The very act itself causes someone harm.
With illegal immigration, there isn't automatically harm done. Many illegal immigrants get jobs, pay taxes, and become law abiding, productive members of society. The act of immigrating illegally doesn't automatically harm anyone.

Yes it does. It 100% does. Jobs my friend...jobs.

If we didn't already have data for it, would you automatically assume that illegal immigrants are taking jobs?

No offense, but your a kid to me. I was a tradesmen for nearly 20 years and I saw first hand what happens. I'm not blind. I don't need statistics to prove to me what I already know.

[orcus116]

[skydivingninja]

I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of doubt that Tick was referring to immigrants as silverware and not slaves

Well if that's the case (not sure if it is till Tick comes in and clarifies something ) here's my response:

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?   

Do I really need to clarify what I meant there?

Please?  I'm sure I'm just misinterpreting you but I don't think I can decipher what you're trying to get at.

There's no way Tick looks that badass.

[King Postwhore]

You'd shit your pants if he did Matt.

[Quadrochosis]

Many small business owners(building, flooring, roofing, etc) love to hire illegal aliens because it greatly increases there profit margins in multiple ways. They can pay them poorly and they will work there asses off for hours. There are many ways they save, including health insurance.

Sounds to me like the problem is also at least partially the fault of American business owners then. Why are we pinning all the blame on the immigrants that are just looking for some money to survive?

[AcidLameLTE]

tick is like one of these old men in the small town I used to live in.

My mother runs a factory and had to hire immigrants (legal ones) to do the jobs there because no one else wanted them but as soon as they turned up all the old folk were claiming that the immigrants were taking their jobs away from them.

Also, nice job of playing the "I'm older than you, therefore you know nothing" card. It's been a while.

[Tick]

I'm going to go ahead and give the benefit of doubt that Tick was referring to immigrants as silverware and not slaves

Well if that's the case (not sure if it is till Tick comes in and clarifies something ) here's my response:

...are you actually comparing people to fucking silverware?   

Do I really need to clarify what I meant there?

Please?  I'm sure I'm just misinterpreting you but I don't think I can decipher what you're trying to get at.

There's no way Tick looks that badass.

I'm bad ass enough.

[ClairvoyantCat]

No offense, but your a kid to me. I was a tradesmen for nearly 20 years and I saw first hand what happens. I'm not blind. I don't need statistics to prove to me what I already know.

Sorry, but you do need statistics.  One person's personally experiences are far from enough to make a generalization about immigrants taking jobs. 

And you can stop playing the age card now, it's really obnoxious.

[skydivingninja]

You'd shit your pants if he did Matt.

I dunno.  I think a well-placed poke to his brittle old man hip would take him out.

[King Postwhore]

You'd shit your pants if he did Matt.

I dunno.  I think a well-placed poke to his brittle old man hip would take him out.

You'd have a hard time with me then. I've got a lot of protection.

[Tick]

tick is like one of these old men in the small town I used to live in.

My mother runs a factory and had to hire immigrants (legal ones) to do the jobs there because no one else wanted them but as soon as they turned up all the old folk were claiming that the immigrants were taking their jobs away from them.

Also, nice job of playing the "I'm older than you, therefore you know nothing" card. It's been a while.

No problem. Little boy.
and I never said he knew nothing.

[Tick]

No offense, but your a kid to me. I was a tradesmen for nearly 20 years and I saw first hand what happens. I'm not blind. I don't need statistics to prove to me what I already know.

Sorry, but you do need statistics.  One person's personally experiences are far from enough to make a generalization about immigrants taking jobs.  

And you can stop playing the age card now, it's really obnoxious.

I'll play whatever card suits me. Maybe I think your obnoxious?

[Tick]

Why is it ok for all you youngsters to fuck with me calling me old,(and man if that isn't old) but god forbid if I mention that I have lived longer and seen a lot more then you have and I'm a dick? Its just a fact.
Its just the way it is kids. The longer you live the more you will experience. Do you think that's untrue or something?
It doesn't make me playing any age card.
You guys do it out of disrespect and its funny?