Connecticut Passes Bill Giving College Aid To Illegal Immigrants

[Tick]

Its nice to know my taxes are going sky high thanks to out new governor, Dannel Malloy, but his priorities are clearly in order.
Perhaps we should drop the word "illegal" from illegal immigrants?


Highlights of the article...

n May, the legislature passed a bill that will allow illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition rates at Connecticut’s public colleges and universities. In order to qualify for the in-state tuition rate, illegal immigrants must attend a Connecticut high school for four years, graduate, and then sign documents – an affidavit – promising to seek proper legal status.

Since the bill’s passage, Connecticut’s legal state residents have expressed their lack of trust for state government. People feel that this measure allows for their hard-earned tax dollars to be allocated to those who pay no taxes to live in Connecticut or the United States. Folks want assurance from our state government that their children and families will not have to fight for spots at state schools. They would also like assurances that their educational system, which is heavily funded through their tax dollars, is both structured fairly and affordable for future generations of Connecticut residents and citizens.

It is important to note that there are thousands of immigrants across the state who have worked tirelessly to become legal residents. But by passing this in-state tuition rate for illegal immigrants, the state is sending out the wrong message. The state of Connecticut is now rewarding illegal behavior.

https://ctsenaterepublicans.com/2011/06/an-underserved-hand-out/

[Sigz]

Are there really that many illegal immigrants in Connecticut?

[Chino]

Are there really that many illegal immigrants in Connecticut?

Suprisingly yes. Waterbury and Danbury have thousands. Danbury especially.

[skydivingninja]

Well, considering they have to graduate high school first after 4 years, and then actually get into a college, and then PAY for it, it doesn't seem as catastrophic as you and the article make it.  I'm sure the affidavit they have to sign has some kind of deadline as well, so its not just paying lip service.  Obviously, if it just says "do you promise to try and become a citizen?  All right, cool," then its a bit of a problem on the enforcing end.

Besides, there was actually a good point brought up in a film I saw once in school.  Basically, there was this family of illegal immigrants.  One daughter came here when she was two or something.  In high school, she was actively involved with SGA, and had a 4.0 GPA, but couldn't go to college because she was an illegal immigrant.  Another daughter was born here, glided through high school with C's, and got into college.  I'd rather people who deserved it get into college, and if some illegal immigrant students are smart enough, I'd rather they be let into colleges to maximize their potential as future citizens.  

[Sigz]

Are there really that many illegal immigrants in Connecticut?

Suprisingly yes. Waterbury and Danbury have thousands. Danbury especially.

Interesting, I had no idea.

I'd rather people who deserved it get into college, and if some illegal immigrant students are smart enough, I'd rather they be let into colleges to maximize their potential as future citizens. 

But yeah, this was pretty much my thought either way.

[Tick]

Does illegal not mean your in the country illegally to begin with?

I can only speak for myself when I say I was effected personally by illegal immigrants.
I spent 18 years installing flooring. A trade I made pretty good money doing. I started my trade in 1987 making a pretty good wage. By the end of the 90's my trade was being over run by illegal immigrants who under cut the installation rates. I was facing less money 10 years into my trade while inflation continued to rise.
You can say what you will about that but when you work as hard as I did you don't want to see your job becoming a trade you can't make ends meet in anymore because people who don't even pay taxes are doing it for next to nothing.
I'm sorry if anyone can't sympathize with me on this, but its a sore topic when I read illegal immigrants are now getting aid for college when they have already hurt so many hard working family tradesmen.

[Tick]

Also think of how many hard working middle class family's work so hard to try and put there kids through college, who were born and raised in this country. Its a sad state when the mindset becomes, lets help out illegal immigrants if they are willing to work hard. There are plenty of hard working American kids more deserving of that aid, that will have to take a backseat to people who shouldn't even be in the country. That makes sense? Not to me it doesn't.

[Sigz]

I'm sorry tick, but I really don't see how the illegal immigrants affected by this bill are related to that. The ones who would be able to take advantage of this are by definition reasonably intelligent high school kids who have had nothing to do with taking other people's jobs.

There are plenty of hard working American kids more deserving of that aid, that will have to take a backseat to people who shouldn't even be in the country. That makes sense? Not to me it doesn't.

They're not getting aid. They're getting the in-state tuition rate like all the other 'hard working american kids', which, if they went through all four years of high school in the state and are smart enough to get accepted into a university, they deserve.

[Tick]

I'm sorry tick, but I really don't see how the illegal immigrants affected by this bill are related to that. The ones who would be able to take advantage of this are by definition reasonably intelligent high school kids who have had nothing to do with taking other people's jobs.

Reasonably intelligent kids raised by the parents who shouldn't be here in the first place but raised those smart kids by taking the jobs of guys like me. Nice.
Wait and see how much your view changes as the years pass by.

Define "illegal" for me please, in case I'm misinterpreting the word?

[Sigz]

I'm sorry tick, but I really don't see how the illegal immigrants affected by this bill are related to that. The ones who would be able to take advantage of this are by definition reasonably intelligent high school kids who have had nothing to do with taking other people's jobs.

Reasonably intelligent kids raised by the parents who shouldn't be here in the first place but raised those smart kids by taking the jobs of guys like me. Nice.
Wait and see how much your view changes as the years pass by.

So the kids should be punished because of their parent's decisions?

[skydivingninja]

There are plenty of hard working American kids more deserving of that aid, that will have to take a backseat to people who shouldn't even be in the country. That makes sense? Not to me it doesn't.

They're not getting aid. They're getting the in-state tuition rate like all the other 'hard working american kids', which, if they went through all four years of high school in the state and are smart enough to get accepted into a university, they deserve.

FFS, this.

I'm sorry tick, but I really don't see how the illegal immigrants affected by this bill are related to that. The ones who would be able to take advantage of this are by definition reasonably intelligent high school kids who have had nothing to do with taking other people's jobs.

Reasonably intelligent kids raised by the parents who shouldn't be here in the first place but raised those smart kids by taking the jobs of guys like me. Nice.
Wait and see how much your view changes as the years pass by.

So the kids should be punished because of their parent's decisions?

And this.  A child has no say on what country he or she was born in. 

[Tick]

I'm sorry tick, but I really don't see how the illegal immigrants affected by this bill are related to that. The ones who would be able to take advantage of this are by definition reasonably intelligent high school kids who have had nothing to do with taking other people's jobs.

Reasonably intelligent kids raised by the parents who shouldn't be here in the first place but raised those smart kids by taking the jobs of guys like me. Nice.
Wait and see how much your view changes as the years pass by.

So the kids should be punished because of their parent's decisions?

Yes, they should. There parents are here illegally. Not the best moral message to raise your kids with. Break the rules, and you can be rewarded for it.

[Tick]

There are plenty of hard working American kids more deserving of that aid, that will have to take a backseat to people who shouldn't even be in the country. That makes sense? Not to me it doesn't.

They're not getting aid. They're getting the in-state tuition rate like all the other 'hard working american kids', which, if they went through all four years of high school in the state and are smart enough to get accepted into a university, they deserve.

FFS, this.

I'm sorry tick, but I really don't see how the illegal immigrants affected by this bill are related to that. The ones who would be able to take advantage of this are by definition reasonably intelligent high school kids who have had nothing to do with taking other people's jobs.

Reasonably intelligent kids raised by the parents who shouldn't be here in the first place but raised those smart kids by taking the jobs of guys like me. Nice.
Wait and see how much your view changes as the years pass by.

So the kids should be punished because of their parent's decisions?

And this.  A child has no say on what country he or she was born in. 

So? They shouldn't be here. What part of illegal is confusing to you?

[Sigz]

How are they being rewarded? They're only getting the tuition fee that every other resident gets. And in fact there are stricter condition than any other citizen (four years as opposed to three and the affadavit).

[Tick]

How are they being rewarded? They're only getting the tuition fee that every other resident gets. And in fact there are stricter condition than any other citizen (four years as opposed to three and the affadavit).

If your not a member Of a price club like, Costco, should you still be able to shop there and get the same benefits as the members who pay a yearly fee?

[skydivingninja]

No part of the word "illegal" is confusing to me, Tick.  I understand that they shouldn't be here.  But I find it very hard to be so cold to someone who was basically forced by their parents to come here at a young age, especially when, if they can graduate high school and get into a school and somehow pay for it, they could end up doing a lot of good here.  Besides, those kids won't be taking your kind of jobs unless they major in something like Philosopy .  But as Sigz and the provisions of this bill say, they're not being rewarded.  They still have to pay college tuition!  That shit's expensive!  Plus they have to promise to become citizens.  This is giving children an opportunity to really contribute something and become a part of the US.  There are just a few difficult caveats to pass first. 

[Sigz]

No part of the word "illegal" is confusing to me, Tick.  I understand that they shouldn't be here.  But I find it very hard to be so cold to someone who was basically forced by their parents to come here at a young age, especially when, if they can graduate high school and get into a school and somehow pay for it, they could end up doing a lot of good here.  Besides, those kids won't be taking your kind of jobs unless they major in something like Philosopy .  But as Sigz and the provisions of this bill say, they're not being rewarded.  They still have to pay college tuition!  That shit's expensive!  Plus they have to promise to become citizens.  This is giving children an opportunity to really contribute something and become a part of the US.  There are just a few difficult caveats to pass first. 

Exactly. If you don't give them this you're only putting them in a position where they're more likely to have to work illegally, not pay taxes, etc, just as their parents did.

[Tick]

No part of the word "illegal" is confusing to me, Tick.  I understand that they shouldn't be here.  But I find it very hard to be so cold to someone who was basically forced by their parents to come here at a young age, especially when, if they can graduate high school and get into a school and somehow pay for it, they could end up doing a lot of good here.  Besides, those kids won't be taking your kind of jobs unless they major in something like Philosopy .  But as Sigz and the provisions of this bill say, they're not being rewarded.  They still have to pay college tuition!  That shit's expensive!  Plus they have to promise to become citizens.  This is giving children an opportunity to really contribute something and become a part of the US.  There are just a few difficult caveats to pass first. 

I understand your view and it is a shame they are screwed because of there parents, but that's life. There parents set a bad example and there kids don't deserve to be rewarded for it. It that's heartless, then it is, but as a philosopher, that's how I feel about it. I care about the well being of my 10 year old daughter and her future. She gets straights A's in school by the way.
If a parent commits a crime, no matter what it is, the kids always suffer. Illegal immigrants break the law, plain and simple.

[skydivingninja]

Once again, you sound like you think CT is just handing college to illegal kids.  So they're not being rewarded by their parents' bad example.  I agree they do break the law, but again, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't give their children, who likely had no choice in the matter, the opportunity to succeed as US citizens if they're willing to work just as hard, maybe even harder, as you or me. 

I care about the well being of my 10 year old daughter and her future. She gets straights A's in school by the way.

I'm sure illegal immigrants who are also parents care about the well being of their children as well.  This part of your argument is not special or unique.  I also fail to see how its relevant. 

[Tick]

Once again, you sound like you think CT is just handing college to illegal kids.  So they're not being rewarded by their parents' bad example.  I agree they do break the law, but again, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't give their children, who likely had no choice in the matter, the opportunity to succeed as US citizens if they're willing to work just as hard, maybe even harder, as you or me. 

I care about the well being of my 10 year old daughter and her future. She gets straights A's in school by the way.

I'm sure illegal immigrants who are also parents care about the well being of their children as well.  This part of your argument is not special or unique.  I also fail to see how its relevant. 

Its relevant because I belong in this country and they are here illegally.
Look, I understand many of these kids are 10 times the student I ever was, and are probably quality kids. I get that, but it does not change my feeling that since they are not here legally, they should have no rights. There parents broke the law, and we all pay for it in so many ways. My taxes are going up big time. Got to help pay theirs, ya know?
In the end, respectfully, we don't see eye to eye on the issue so there is not much more we can say since neither one of us will change the others mind.

[skydivingninja]

Once again, you sound like you think CT is just handing college to illegal kids.  So they're not being rewarded by their parents' bad example.  I agree they do break the law, but again, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't give their children, who likely had no choice in the matter, the opportunity to succeed as US citizens if they're willing to work just as hard, maybe even harder, as you or me. 

I care about the well being of my 10 year old daughter and her future. She gets straights A's in school by the way.

I'm sure illegal immigrants who are also parents care about the well being of their children as well.  This part of your argument is not special or unique.  I also fail to see how its relevant. 

Its relevant because I belong in this country and they are here illegally.

Still not seeing how that was relevant to your argument, sorry.

[Tick]

Once again, you sound like you think CT is just handing college to illegal kids.  So they're not being rewarded by their parents' bad example.  I agree they do break the law, but again, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't give their children, who likely had no choice in the matter, the opportunity to succeed as US citizens if they're willing to work just as hard, maybe even harder, as you or me. 

I care about the well being of my 10 year old daughter and her future. She gets straights A's in school by the way.

I'm sure illegal immigrants who are also parents care about the well being of their children as well.  This part of your argument is not special or unique.  I also fail to see how its relevant. 

Its relevant because I belong in this country and they are here illegally.

Still not seeing how that was relevant to your argument, sorry.

I don't want any aid going to illegal aliens in any way, shape, or form.

[El Barto]

How are they being rewarded? They're only getting the tuition fee that every other resident gets. And in fact there are stricter condition than any other citizen (four years as opposed to three and the affadavit).

If your not a member Of a price club like, Costco, should you still be able to shop there and get the same benefits as the members who pay a yearly fee?

I disagree with your position, Tick, but that was a nice analogy.


One of the things you need to take into account is that illegal aliens pay their share of taxes; in many cases more.  These guys aren't getting a free ride.  They've kicked in the same as you.

Also, educating these people is in your best interest.  Frankly, I'd rather live in a world of intelligent and educated illegals than the current nation of idiot Americans. 

[7StringedBeast]

How are they being rewarded? They're only getting the tuition fee that every other resident gets. And in fact there are stricter condition than any other citizen (four years as opposed to three and the affadavit).

If your not a member Of a price club like, Costco, should you still be able to shop there and get the same benefits as the members who pay a yearly fee?

Also, educating these people is in your best interest.  Frankly, I'd rather live in a world of intelligent and educated illegals than the current nation of idiot Americans. 

Barto, why are you so anti-american?  That statement is so bitter and generalized that its bizzarre  I mean, I have to assume it was an over exaggeration for dramatic effect.  If not, why are you so anti-American?  This country has just as many dumb people as any other country.  You make it sound like every illegal immigrant is hard working and a genius, while all americans are idiots and out nation is full of them.  This just isn't true.

[El Barto]

I mean, I have to assume it was an over exaggeration for dramatic effect.

A little from column A, a little from column B.  Yes, there was some dramatic effect, but I also have a pretty low opinion of my fellow citizens.  We've become intellectually lazy and we're putting less and less emphasis on education.  Frankly, I find it hard to read the news any given day and not find numerous things to be disgusted about when it comes to the populace.  While it might well be the case that we're really no different than any other nationality, I live here and these are the people that I see every day.  My experience with Europeans did leave me with the notion that they were overall considerably brighter, but 3 weeks is hardly a good indicator.

As it pertains to this topic, I will point out that the argument was already thrown out there comparing smart immigrants to unworthy Americans, so I didn't just bust that out to be a dick. 

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I agree with everything Matt and Ian said.

It's not a free ride. It's extremely conditional. I would also like to see illegals to have incentive to actually do something with their lives

for example: I went to high school with a group of illegal mexican immigrants. Hardly any of them did any schoolwork (except in spanish class, ironically ) because they didn't think they would be able to do anything with their lives that we would. Now, it looks like they will be given incentive to work harder, get a degree, then get their citizenship and enter the workforce in a position that's not necessarily blue collar.

What's wrong with that? you keep saying that 'they're illegal, so they shouldn't get anything'. Well tick, my great grandparents were illegal immigrants and they managed to make a life for themselves and their children without education. Would you have wished them to have nothing? Or for them to be deported? Before you answer, think about something; I am a by-product of their life decisions. What would have happened to me?

[El Barto]

I gather that Ian is Sigz, but who's Matt?  SDN?

[skydivingninja]

Yes.

[orcus116]

The article clearly states that it's just giving immigrants the same opportunities as regular citizens, granted they get their citizenship shortly after. I don't see what the big problem is. Plus knowing kids that have gone to state school and the story Sigz gave you're already paying tax dollars to make "educate" dumbass regular American citizens anyways. We're talking about state school, not giving these kids a free ride to Georgetown or Yale.

[Adami]

Sounds good.

[Tick]

All I can say is the view of this small bubble of people here is certainly a minority opinion. I find it absolutely ridiculous that no one shares my view. Its sad actually.
Its almost as if you guys purposely try to have the most ridiculous view possible.

[El Barto]

Actually, people here have made very reasonable arguments.  I understand you're personally bent out of shape about it, and I don't necessarily blame you for that, but it doesn't invalidate the logical positions of others. 

[Orbert]

I just saw this topic, and I gotta say I agree with tick.  So I guess there's two of us.

Their parents came here illegally.  Fine, this country was built by immigrants.  But by the time their kids are in college, don't you think they've had enough time to go through the process and get themselves documented?  Their kids go to our public schools, schools paid for by our taxes, taxes that they don't pay, and everybody (except me and tick) is okay with that?

Then they go to college and get the in-state tuition rate.  The rate which is reduced because residents pay taxes and those taxes subsidize the tuition.  Except once again, they don't pay any taxes.  So yes, they are indeed getting something for free.  And once again, everybody is okay with that?

[Adami]

I'm not sure some of you realize how insanely hard it is to get documented, you don't just show up and sign a piece of paper.

[orcus116]

I'm getting confused. tick and Orbert are saying they don't pay taxes. El Barto is saying they do. What's the answer?