Is the media liberal?

[j]

Why doesn't Ron Paul get attacked like Rev. Wright? Because Ron Paul is white, and Rev. Wright is black. (Btw, I use the "race card" a lot, but I'm a white man who grew up in Montana, so that should say something about my predisposition to spotting this sort of thing).

This is completely ridiculous.  And your "pulling the race card" in the name of a minority to which you don't belong doesn't say anything.  There are plenty of white people who do the same thing for all manner of reasons, political and personal.  And quite frankly, it tends to do more harm than good.  You answered your own question right here:

More colorful and fitting language perhaps, but the message is the same.

It was Wright's inflammatory language, along with conservatives' lame-ass attempts to discredit Obama by association, that brought it to the forefront.  Ron Paul is outspoken and already considered a fringe candidate by most.  There is little incentive for anyone to harp on his views on foreign policy which in particular, by the way, are shared by many mainstream politicians.

For the record, I agree that the Wright "controversy" was complete bullshit.

Actually, fox news does create stuff that doesn't exist, they do it on a daily basis. The most recent event I can think of is the faux outrage over Common going to the white house. A bunch of white people on Fox News got riled up over a rapper going to the white house, completely misunderstood and distorted his lyrics, his motives, etc, all to make it sound as if Obama was a gangster or something. It was suspiciously racist - especially when the same outrage wasn't incited over white singers singing just as bad of stuff and visiting the white house.

Let me start by saying that I fully agree that Fox has frequently engaged in some reprehensible, vile, dishonest distortions of the facts, and is as untrustworthy as a news source as any other major outlet, probably moreso.  But the thing with Common was because he had spoken out in defense of Assata Shakur and Mumia Abu-Jamal, two activists who were convicted of killing police officers.  IMO, still not a legit reason to be so upset about his invitation to the WH, but you went all Fox News on this controversy in your synopsis above: it bears almost no resemblance to the reality of it.

Being so quick to jump on the "RACIST!" bandwagon does no one any favors.  Racism will always exist; it's a sad fact of human nature.  But trust me, this country has come a very, very long way, just in my lifetime alone.  At this point, I'd hope we would be above invoking institutionalized racism and the slavery era at every turn.

-J

[Scheavo]

I bring up my race and upbringing becuase I don't have the up bringing to be aware of this kind of racism. It's clear to me that the outrage over Obama, is associated, questioning of his birth, etc, is largely motivated becuase he's a black man. He's one of the most moderate Presidents in decades, and yet he's labeled a radical. There is no justificatn, and the exact same rhetoric and questions raised by white people gets a complete pass. You ignore the fact that Ron Paul has never gotten attacked for being un American and hating America, even though he's saying the same fucking thing as Rev. Wright. Its the same message, done by someone else, in a different community, and it scared the fuck out of a lot of white people in the south.

Also, Common said he thinks the charges were bogus, which is not something completely inconceivable. Black people have an unfair shake in our legal system in many area's of teh country, and at no point did Common ever endorse cop killing. Even if he did, just look at Mike Huckabee and Ted Nugent, or Reagan and Johnny Cash. Google Jon Stewart on O'Reilly talking about Common if you want to see how ridiculous Fox News was being.

You can call a lot of the outrage over Obama as racist, and not be claiming everything is racist. You have to be able to make that distinction, I do.

I don't get why pointing out institutionalized racism is wrong, it exists and ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Too many people took the election of a black Presidnet as the "end of racism" in America, but it's a ludicrous claim.

[EPICVIEW]

I bring up my race and upbringing becuase I don't have the up bringing to be aware of this kind of racism. It's clear to me that the outrage over Obama, is associated, questioning of his birth, etc, is largely motivated becuase he's a black man. He's one of the most moderate Presidents in decades, and yet he's labeled a radical. There is no justificatn, and the exact same rhetoric and questions raised by white people gets a complete pass. You ignore the fact that Ron Paul has never gotten attacked for being un American and hating America, even though he's saying the same fucking thing as Rev. Wright. Its the same message, done by someone else, in a different community, and it scared the fuck out of a lot of white people in the south.

Also, Common said he thinks the charges were bogus, which is not something completely inconceivable. Black people have an unfair shake in our legal system in many area's of teh country, and at no point did Common ever endorse cop killing. Even if he did, just look at Mike Huckabee and Ted Nugent, or Reagan and Johnny Cash. Google Jon Stewart on O'Reilly talking about Common if you want to see how ridiculous Fox News was being.

You can call a lot of the outrage over Obama as racist, and not be claiming everything is racist. You have to be able to make that distinction, I do.

I don't get why pointing out institutionalized racism is wrong, it exists and ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Too many people took the election of a black Presidnet as the "end of racism" in America, but it's a ludicrous claim.

NO its not motivated by that..its motivated by his history, his own books, his associations...stop it already ,

[Scheavo]

To be clear EV, I'm not calling you a racist. I'm calling the attention brought to it racist.

[EPICVIEW]

sorry for the double post but 'My typos are motivated by my tech issue witht he screen being under the screen and it jumping" LOL

Im part minority. I have dealt with bigotry, trust me, nobody cares about his skin color. if anything he he was given more leeway becasue of it. we are upset by his associations, lack of love for this country, his not wanting to wear lapel pin, put his hand over his heart for the pledge, his apology tour to our enemies, his ignorance on what we face as Jihad is on the move against the west..He was a MISTAKE. His stimulus plan was TRILLION to UNIONS.. we know it cant work.
His treatment of our allies has been a disgrace..

[Scheavo]

People do care about his skin color. I could find you a poll from the time of hte election that showed ~20% of America saying they wouldn't vote for Obama because he was black - and thats the amount willing to admit it to someone over the phone.

Lack of love for this country? Show me where that has happened; the lapel pin? Do I need to show you McCain not wearing one? I put my hand over my heart for the pledge, when I did it, it's what I was taught, the apology tour was needed becuase we are fucking up the entire region and blaming it on them, and the Jihad movement is not a serious threat - just look at the Arab Spring.

[skydivingninja]

we are upset by his associations,

Many of which aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.

lack of love for this country,

...what?  Really?  You think he became President without some kind of love for this country?  This doesn't make sense.  To go through all the stress of being President isn't worth it if you don't have some love for the country you're meant to lead.

his not wanting to wear lapel pin, put his hand over his heart for the pledge,

What does this matter about anything?

his ignorance on what we face as Jihad is on the move against the west..

Call me naive but I think the Commander in Chief is pretty well aware of any potential military movements against us.

His treatment of our allies has been a disgrace..

How?  And what instances are you talking about?  Links?

[EPICVIEW]

Scheavo...I know your not calling me a racist ( we cool  ).. but I still dont agree with you. yes, I know aholes exist, and racism exists.. but its NOT a card that should be played here.. its not the real issue with Obama..

to SDN, many are far worse then you may think..

[eric42434224]

Scheavo...I know your not calling me a racist ( we cool  ).. but I still dont agree with you. yes, I know aholes exist, and racism exists.. but its NOT a card that should be played here.. its not the real issue with Obama..

to SDN, many are far worse then you may think..

Agreed that racism is not a card to be played in regards to Obama.  The other cards not to be played are:

-His lapel pin choice
-He doesnt love his country
-He isnt a US citizen
-He had a bad man for a preacher
-and about 20 others discussed in PR

[sonatafanica]

heck, maybe it would be better to have a president who actually hated america. at least then they would try to change something.

[Scheavo]

Scheavo...I know your not calling me a racist ( we cool  ).. but I still dont agree with you. yes, I know aholes exist, and racism exists.. but its NOT a card that should be played here.. its not the real issue with Obama..

It's the issue behind Rev. Wright and all his sketchy associates. It's not the issue behind him continuing Bush era surveillance, creating more wars, not standing up for health care, whimpering out to wall street, etc. Why don't you talk bout those things? Why bring up Rev. Wright at all, when it's ridiculous to do so, and as I think is fairly obvious, the only reason it got the media attention and furor it did was because of the color of their skin?

There's plenty of actual things to get upset with Obama about. Let's talk about those.       

[j]

You can call a lot of the outrage over Obama as racist, and not be claiming everything is racist. You have to be able to make that distinction, I do.

Fair enough, and I agree that there is definitely racism at work in some peoples' distaste for Obama.  But I don't buy for a second that it's a very significant part of it, and I don't see how it could be "clear" to you or to anybody that the opposite is true.  All that does is kill discussion of the man's actual accomplishments and/or failings.

On another note, I'm not sure what US news outlet you were tuning into during the presidential campaigns, but Obama was treated VERY favorably by every major network except Fox.  In fact, Fox was the only place I can recall hearing anything about the Reverend Wright bullshit or the William Ayers thing, or other similar stuff.  MSNBC straddled him all the way into office, and while I think CNN tends to be easily the most neutral major network, I seem to remember them leaning Obama's way a bit too.

While I don't have a conflicting partisan allegiance motivating me to see it one way or the other, I could be remembering incorrectly.  Did other people here REALLY feel like Obama was treated unfairly by any network other than Fox?  If anything, I'd say the opposite is closer to the truth.

-J

[Scheavo]

Fox is the major network though, they get way more traffic than CNN and MSNBC - I think combined. To ignore when talking about this ignores the elephant in the room. Ya, MSNBC is obviously rather liberal, but it doesn't compete in the slightest with Fox News; and I have also never seen anything like the distortions Fox News constantly goes at.

I mean, what has Obama done that is so radical, so completely different than anyone else? I think someone did a great story the other week about how Obama is basically a 90's republican. He's not very liberal, not in office at least. He's very pragmatic, very neutral. Yet, you hear constantly about how radical he is, how he's transforming America into something un-American. This kind of talk and rhetoric has no justification in the facts; pile on top of this the conspiracy related to his birth certificate, was born in Kenya, or is somehow a secret Muslim, or his college records, the claim made by some regarding his speaking ability, and I think you start to see what I'm saying. A lot of these are traditional racist talking points about black people, and a lot of these talking points are made by the Republicans running for President.  

https://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mccalla/top-5-fake-fox-news-racist-scandals/

And J, to be clear, I'm talking about the media here. The average joe who dislike Obama is more often than not, not racist (though ~15-20% are); a lot more people, though, are gonna be swayed by the media and the narrative created theirin, which has often had visible racism underlying the charges and the narrative.

[orcus116]

In fact, Fox was the only place I can recall hearing anything about the Reverend Wright bullshit or the William Ayers thing, or other similar stuff. 

Because FOX is pretty much a tabloid when it comes to things like that. In reality none of those types of stories really matter but FOX will try its damnedest to build up a stigma behind it them.

[j]

Fox is the major network though, they get way more traffic than CNN and MSNBC - I think combined. To ignore when talking about this ignores the elephant in the room. Ya, MSNBC is obviously rather liberal, but it doesn't compete in the slightest with Fox News; and I have also never seen anything like the distortions Fox News constantly goes at.

Yeah, point taken.  I agree Fox is the worst offender.  I didn't know they got THAT much more traffic than the other networks though, that seems strange to me.

I mean, what has Obama done that is so radical, so completely different than anyone else? I think someone did a great story the other week about how Obama is basically a 90's republican. He's not very liberal, not in office at least. He's very pragmatic, very neutral. Yet, you hear constantly about how radical he is, how he's transforming America into something un-American. This kind of talk and rhetoric has no justification in the facts; pile on top of this the conspiracy related to his birth certificate, was born in Kenya, or is somehow a secret Muslim, or his college records, the claim made by some regarding his speaking ability, and I think you start to see what I'm saying. A lot of these are traditional racist talking points about black people, and a lot of these talking points are made by the Republicans running for President.  

It's all intertwined though.  Republicans want to discredit Obama because he's the opposing party's candidate.  That's par for the course: each party digs up all kinds of shit on the opposition, anything that could be twisted to seem controversial.  Like I said, I'm sure there is some racism at work in some situations, I just don't see anything outside the realm of what would be done to a candidate of ANY race.

And J, to be clear, I'm talking about the media here. The average joe who dislike Obama is more often than not, not racist (though ~15-20% are); a lot more people, though, are gonna be swayed by the media and the narrative created theirin, which has often had visible racism underlying the charges and the narrative.

This is possibly true.  Cynic though I am, I can't really take that 15-20% number at face value though, particularly applied to the general population.  I'd be skeptical of that unless I could somehow verify its legitimacy.

Because FOX is pretty much a tabloid when it comes to things like that. In reality none of those types of stories really matter but FOX will try its damnedest to build up a stigma behind it them.

Trust me, I know.  I live in Texas, I've watched more Fox News than any reasonable person should. 

-J

[Scheavo]

https://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/09/20/aps-racist-poll-if-obama-loses-its-because-hes-black

Well, on Saturday, the Associated Press and Yahoo News released results of a new poll, and the major take by AP writers Ron Fournier and Trevor Thompson was that if Obama loses, it's because of "[d]eep-seated racial misgivings" held by "one-third of white Democrats."

Read more: https://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/09/20/aps-racist-poll-if-obama-loses-its-because-hes-black#ixzz1PW6ytHR5

This isn't the poll I remember reading about during the election, but damn, 33% of Democrats have racial misgivings... Unless I can find this poll at some point (leaving town for 4 days), I'll take back the numbers I'm using about the number that wouldn't vote for him. I remember it being somewhere ~15% of the total populace, but maybe that was people's best guess after accounting for people not telling a surveyor the truth, and perhaps this was only for a certain sector of the population. Seeing as how I can't find what I remember, I'm becoming suspicious of my memory.

I'd be happy to find out I'm wrong on this. It would be a good day if there were less racists in America than I thought (though I still think it's a problem in the media's narrative).

[Scheavo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksZQyk8-md4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xkRgXEb73M

Interesting interview for anyone who cares. Also interesting is that Fox News apparently edited the video to makes him look more emotional, and less rational; and that they edited out Chris Wallace saying that Fox News is a "counter balance" to the liberal media (I posted the non-edited versions). Making them not fair and balanced, but heavily conservative and purposefully countering what they perceive as a liberal media.

[antigoon]

I watched that earlier today. I always enjoy when Stewart goes on Fox.

[chknptpie]

I love Stewart.