Oil Prices, Gas prices, Why does no one care?

[tjanuranus]

Ok i hear a lot of talk from politicians and even the president about Gas prices when really no one is doing shit about what's actually causing the problem. Sen. Sanders is the only current politician i can listen to and genuinely think that he is telling the truth and cares about people. He's at it again speaking the truth and trying to do something about it. Will anyone listen? Watch this...

https://youtu.be/BHFR-szy-MA

[rumborak]

What is there "to do" about it? This is plain market forces. The American consumer has maneuvered him/herself into a complete dependence on an item that is increasingly limited, increasingly demanded for globally, and produced for the most part outside its borders. The result is a people-over-land distribution that relied on an artificially low gas price, which is no longer true and never will be again.

rumborak

[tjanuranus]

gas prices are based on Oil Futures not supply and demand. There is something that can be done about that as he is talking about in the video.

[El Barto]

I think you're both wrong.  It is about futures speculating, it's no longer about supply and demand,  and there's nothing to be done about it.  He can talk all he wants about regulating the futures market, but who'll listen to him?  The people pulling the strings are the people making all the money. 

[Ħ]

because I ride my bike

[rumborak]

Why is futures speculation bracketed out in terms of market forces? Purchase and Sales are always based on an estimate of the future. You can't blame an over-simplification (markets are based on supply and demand) to not comply too well with reality. Markets are comprised of people, not monotonically increasing or decreasing functions.

rumborak

[tjanuranus]

Gas prices and the dollar are literally based on thin air. Peoples predictions which mean absolutely nothing. That's what's WRONG with the system and someone needs to do something about it or else things could get way worse than they already are. At least he's trying.

[XJDenton]

Gas prices are about 100 times too small. Its the earths most precious resource and you're selling it for less than diet coke.

[tjanuranus]

So screw everybody?

[JustJen]

Which is why the politicians in NY state need to get their heads out of their asses and lift the moratorium on horizontal drilling and hydrofracking of the Marcellus shale already.

It contains perhaps two hundred billion dollars worth of recoverable natural gas (or two years worth of US consumption*) and a great portion of it is recoverable right near a brand new pipeline that was just laid for this very purpose here in rural upstate NY  (based on other live, producing wells nearby) which would mean much smaller gas prices here where currently prices are hovering right under/over $4.00 per gallon!!

State University of New York at Fredonia geology professor Gary Lash has calculated that more than 14,000 km3 (4.9×1014 cu ft) (490 TCF) of natural gas may be contained in the Marcellus black shale beds that lie between New York state and West Virginia.[121] At the present level of technology, he believes approximately 10% of this – 1,400 km3 (4.9×1013 cu ft) (49 TCF) – could be recovered.[121]

This is enough to satisfy approximately two years' of total U.S. consumption,[119] or a total value of two hundred billion dollars at winter 2010 – spring 2011 wellhead prices.

That figure is part of an increase of as much as approximately one trillion United States dollars in the value of all recoverable reserves in the US attributable to improved recovery through vertical drilling and fracking.[21]

(I never post in this forum but I'm a proud longtime member of the local Landowners' Coalition for the purpose of supporting natural gas drilling here, and this is something that is driving me insane. I realize the shale has a possibility of a high radon content, and I realize disposing of the frackwater is an issue, but there must be a way to make this all work here, like it is in Texas and other areas. Yeah, horizontal drilling is relatively new technology, but again -- everything innovative and life changing starts as new technology, right?)


*And perhaps a GREAT deal more, depending on recoverability:

In 2008, Terry Engelder, a Pennsylvania State University geosciences professor called his estimate of 4,800 km3 (1.7×1014 cu ft) (170 TCF) conservative.[119]

In November 2008, based on drilling results, Engelder increased his estimate of the amount of natural gas in the Marcellus to 363 TCF of recoverable resource, which would be enough to supply U.S. consumption for at least fourteen years.[122]

That estimate assumed some acreage in the Marcellus would not be gas bearing. If the entire formation did contain gas, Engelder said the formation could contain 4,359 TCF. Assuming a 30% recovery rate, this would lead to a 1,307 TCF.[123]

[King Postwhore]

My beef is that the cost has had such a sharp increase.  My oil was $1.09 in 2004 and got as high as $4.74 in 2008.  Now in 2010, I locked in at $2.77  It's still almost 200% higher in 6 years.  The cost of living had gone through the roof in that time.

[Portrucci]

My beef is that the cost has had such a sharp increase.  My oil was $1.09 in 2004 and got as high as $4.74 in 2008.  Now in 2010, I locked in at $2.77  It's still almost 200% higher in 6 years.  The cost of living had gone through the roof in that time.

Is that per Gallon? I pay the equivalent of $5.25 US per gallon here in Australia. And I think it should be higher! More people needs to use public transport & bikes. There are still plenty of people who commute by-themselves in a car to the city. It's just not sustainable with the growing population..the roads aren't getting any wider.

[King Postwhore]

My beef is that the cost has had such a sharp increase.  My oil was $1.09 in 2004 and got as high as $4.74 in 2008.  Now in 2010, I locked in at $2.77  It's still almost 200% higher in 6 years.  The cost of living had gone through the roof in that time.

Is that per Gallon? I pay the equivalent of $5.25 US per gallon here in Australia. And I think it should be higher! More people needs to use public transport & bikes. There are still plenty of people who commute by-themselves in a car to the city. It's just not sustainable with the growing population..the roads aren't getting any wider.

Oil for heating my house.  I'd love to have Solar panels on my house but I looked at the cost and I was blown away.  Out of my price range.  That's why here in USA we are still reliant on oil.

[William Wallace]

gas prices are based on Oil Futures not supply and demand. There is something that can be done about that as he is talking about in the video.

He's wrong. It's best to get your information from experts, not politicians. If there was an abundant supply of oil you couldn't blame speculators for high gas prices. Speculators respond to what's happening in oil markets. That's all there is to it.

[El Barto]

There is currently an abundant supply of oil, and there will be for a few years yet.  Oil prices have gone up tremendously over the last 10 years, but there hasn't been any significant shift in global oil production.  Considering that the bulk of our oil comes from us, Canada, Mexico, and those fine upstanding Saudis, disruptions in places like Libya mean dick.  Yet our prices skyrocketed, ostensibly because of Moammar's silly ass, even though they're at the bottom of our import list.  It's an artificial market, and one which obviously benefits the oil companies; hence why there'll be no change. 

[skydivingninja]

Honestly, hydrogen fuel cells seem like a great way to move forward, especially with cars.  In California, it costs as much as gas does, but unlike gas, we're not going to run out of it.  I mean, gas isn't going to be phazed out completely until we run out of oil, but for day-to-day use it would be a significant change.

[carl320]

My beef is that the cost has had such a sharp increase.  My oil was $1.09 in 2004 and got as high as $4.74 in 2008.  Now in 2010, I locked in at $2.77  It's still almost 200% higher in 6 years.  The cost of living had gone through the roof in that time.

Is that per Gallon? I pay the equivalent of $5.25 US per gallon here in Australia. And I think it should be higher! More people needs to use public transport & bikes. There are still plenty of people who commute by-themselves in a car to the city. It's just not sustainable with the growing population..the roads aren't getting any wider.

In the US public transit has this stigma (except the largest cities) of being for those who can't afford a car.  And biking here?  If it wasn't so dangerous where I live I would do it.

[orcus116]

My beef is that the cost has had such a sharp increase.  My oil was $1.09 in 2004 and got as high as $4.74 in 2008.  Now in 2010, I locked in at $2.77  It's still almost 200% higher in 6 years.  The cost of living had gone through the roof in that time.

Is that per Gallon? I pay the equivalent of $5.25 US per gallon here in Australia. And I think it should be higher! More people needs to use public transport & bikes. There are still plenty of people who commute by-themselves in a car to the city. It's just not sustainable with the growing population..the roads aren't getting any wider.

While there are a sizable number of commuters taking their own vehicles into work in an American city most people I've worked with when I was in Boston utilized the public transportation system as well as some that were bike users. At my current job now because it is over a mountain it'd be impossible to ask people to use either of those options because, well, they're just not available or feasible. In an ideal world, yes, people would live very close to their jobs so using a vehicle might be a bit outlandish or unnecessary but that's just not the case for almost everyone. Hell, asking an American who drives to work to ride a bike there might increase their commute time by two or three times.

[tjanuranus]

gas prices are based on Oil Futures not supply and demand. There is something that can be done about that as he is talking about in the video.

He's wrong. It's best to get your information from experts, not politicians. If there was an abundant supply of oil you couldn't blame speculators for high gas prices. Speculators respond to what's happening in oil markets. That's all there is to it.

No sir you are wrong. 

[Portrucci]

My beef is that the cost has had such a sharp increase.  My oil was $1.09 in 2004 and got as high as $4.74 in 2008.  Now in 2010, I locked in at $2.77  It's still almost 200% higher in 6 years.  The cost of living had gone through the roof in that time.

Is that per Gallon? I pay the equivalent of $5.25 US per gallon here in Australia. And I think it should be higher! More people needs to use public transport & bikes. There are still plenty of people who commute by-themselves in a car to the city. It's just not sustainable with the growing population..the roads aren't getting any wider.

While there are a sizable number of commuters taking their own vehicles into work in an American city most people I've worked with when I was in Boston utilized the public transportation system as well as some that were bike users. At my current job now because it is over a mountain it'd be impossible to ask people to use either of those options because, well, they're just not available or feasible. In an ideal world, yes, people would live very close to their jobs so using a vehicle might be a bit outlandish or unnecessary but that's just not the case for almost everyone. Hell, asking an American who drives to work to ride a bike there might increase their commute time by two or three times.

Well, I'm not from the US so I'm not sure of how the public transport is structured there, so I'll just expand on my observations in my own country. Our trains are notoriously unreliable...only 75% run 'on time'  (within 5 minutes of their scheduled arrival time) and are mostly outdated. However they still manage cover a pretty wide area, and for the gaps in between there are plenty of buses as well. You'll never get 100% coverage and some businesses will be located in low-density areas which public transport can't reach. In those cases a car/carpooling is probably the only option. But that's not what I'm arguing against....I'd say 90% of the outer suburbs of my city can get into the CBD via public transport within 30-35 minutes. Due to rush-hour traffic I doubt the car is even any quicker...the only advantage of using the car is the privacy.  People seem adamant to hold on to this privilege for one reason or another and it seems the only way the 'paradigm shift' will come is if petrol increases in price a few-fold.

The investment in public transport infrastructure needs to happen now and commuters also need to increasingly switch to public transport (giving them more customers and more incentive to expand). The USA kind of stands out as one of the places that will be the last to let go of this attachment to the automobile, no matter it's inefficiency. It's a generalization sure, but from my visit to the US, there were still millions of big thirsty trucks on the roads so I don't think I'm making top much of a stretch there...

[Scheavo]

Which is why the politicians in NY state need to get their heads out of their asses and lift the moratorium on horizontal drilling and hydrofracking of the Marcellus shale already.

Yikes, hydrofracking is a disaster. Unless you like tap water being flammable?

[William Wallace]

gas prices are based on Oil Futures not supply and demand. There is something that can be done about that as he is talking about in the video.

He's wrong. It's best to get your information from experts, not politicians. If there was an abundant supply of oil you couldn't blame speculators for high gas prices. Speculators respond to what's happening in oil markets. That's all there is to it.

No sir you are wrong. 

Good answer.  
A lot of variables affect oil markets - uprisings in the Middle East being just one of the more significant examples. It's easy to blame speculators, but that argument doesn't reflect reality.  Again, information provided by oil economists is credible, that provided by vote-hustling politicians, not so much.  

[MetalMike06]

Ive said it in other threads  on  similar subjects but ever since the 1950s American cities have been built to accomodate car commute above all else. Trains and buses are fine ideas but people aren't going to feel comfortable using them as long as they have a giant parking lot available to them wherever they go.
I guess this is why other parts of the world pay multiple times more for gas but you don't hear them whining about it - their towns are still set up the traditional way, friendlier to pedetrian travel. I imagine in most European cities owning a car isn't a necessity for daily life.

[William Wallace]

Which is why the politicians in NY state need to get their heads out of their asses and lift the moratorium on horizontal drilling and hydrofracking of the Marcellus shale already.

Yikes, hydrofracking is a disaster. Unless you like tap water being flammable?

That's a myth.

But then what's the explanation for the most dramatic part of the movie: tap water so laden with gas that people can set it on fire?

It turns out that has little to do with fracking. In many parts of America, there is enough methane in the ground to leak into people's well water. The best fire scene in the movie was shot in Colorado, where the filmmaker is in the kitchen of a man who lights his faucet. But Colorado investigators went to that man's house, checked out his well, and found that fracking had nothing to do with his water catching fire. His well-digger had drilled into a naturally occurring methane pocket.

[rumborak]

I think whatever techniques you use, they will always massively impact the environment. Their is no silver bullet for getting this out of the ground.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

Which is why the politicians in NY state need to get their heads out of their asses and lift the moratorium on horizontal drilling and hydrofracking of the Marcellus shale already.

Yikes, hydrofracking is a disaster. Unless you like tap water being flammable?

That's a myth.

But then what's the explanation for the most dramatic part of the movie: tap water so laden with gas that people can set it on fire?

It turns out that has little to do with fracking. In many parts of America, there is enough methane in the ground to leak into people's well water. The best fire scene in the movie was shot in Colorado, where the filmmaker is in the kitchen of a man who lights his faucet. But Colorado investigators went to that man's house, checked out his well, and found that fracking had nothing to do with his water catching fire. His well-digger had drilled into a naturally occurring methane pocket.

Thanks for the clarification.

However, hydrofraucking is still a fucking stupid thing. Pumping harmful / poisonous chemicals into the ground will be problematic, now or in the future. Those chemicals just dont' go away.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html?_r=1

Other documents and interviews show that many E.P.A. scientists are alarmed, warning that the drilling waste is a threat to drinking water in Pennsylvania. Their concern is based partly on a 2009 study, never made public, written by an E.P.A. consultant who concluded that some sewage treatment plants were incapable of removing certain drilling waste contaminants and were probably violating the law.

The Times also found never-reported studies by the E.P.A. and a confidential study by the drilling industry that all concluded that radioactivity in drilling waste cannot be fully diluted in rivers and other waterways.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/natural_gas_drilling/12_23_2009_final_assessment_report.pdf

It's simply not worth the trouble, considering we want to be getting rid of fossil fuels. Further oil production only continues our addiction to the product. It's like telling a meth addict to gradually reduce their meth intake to get off of meth.

As you point out, there are pockets of methane gas around, and hydrofracking causes fractures (thus the name...) in the Earth, a process we can't accurately predict.

[ReaPsTA]

I can't hear about fracking the ground for water without thinking of Battlestar Galactica.

[EPICVIEW]

2008 gas was 1.65 and 55 bucks a barrel

soon we will see 5 bucks a gallon if not more

this sheds some light on how Obama's policies of devaluing the dollar have added 56 cents per gallon amd 17 dollars per barrel today which is over 100 bucks due to his and the democrat policies

https://jec.senate.gov/republicans/public/index.cfm?p=PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=b0772383-bdb9-4ee8-af50-26c68f10aa8d&ContentType_id=6ef5e4f8-e031-47b7-876c-607548c5dceb&Group_id=5f0df72f-2378-489f-99d2-2ad0754b74ed

[PlaysLikeMyung]

that's not a biased source at all

[orcus116]

A program that started 3 months before Obama was sworn in is suddenly his policy?

[EPICVIEW]

A program that started 3 months before Obama was sworn in is suddenly his policy?

I said democrat policy.. Pelosi, Reed, did Obama even vote? maybe he voted present..

that's not a biased source at all

Pretty well known as Oil is bought in dollars.

the facts are in 2008 a barrel was 54 bucks and gas was 1.61

PLM.. so why has it ? gas will be 5 bucks and inflation will run rampant, you tell me why.. my source is not biased, its what it is, its not hiding as the AP or CNN...its a real study, is what it is

[orcus116]

I said democrat policy..

this sheds some light on how Obama's policies of devaluing the dollar have added 56 cents per gallon amd 17 dollars per barrel today

I know you said democrat policies later but you seriously blame Obama first and foremost for every. God. Damn. Thing. Also quantitative easing is a policy enacted by a clown Bush appointed. You can blame Obama for not stopping these policies but who put the guy in charge of the Fed?

[EPICVIEW]

I said democrat policy..

this sheds some light on how Obama's policies of devaluing the dollar have added 56 cents per gallon amd 17 dollars per barrel today

this sheds some light on how Obama's policies of devaluing the dollar have added 56 cents per gallon amd 17 dollars per barrel today which is over 100 bucks due to his and the democrat policies

[King Postwhore]

Sorry guys, this isn't a Dems vs. Reps fight.  It's all their fault.  They dropped the ball.  All of them.

[EPICVIEW]

Sorry guys, this isn't a Dems vs. Reps fight.  It's all their fault.  They dropped the ball.  All of them.

Palins ( and many )wanting to open anwar would have been a very good thing to control dependency and to curb specualtion, certainly the democrats are vested in "green agenda" which plays directly into Opecs hands, also Obamas devaluing of the dollar is hurting us badly..very. if we lose it being traded in dollars it would be catastrophic. Obamas policies and regulations are having a direct effect


https://blog.heritage.org/2011/02/23/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-high-gas-prices-and-obama%e2%80%99s-oil-policy/


This week the media's attention is finally focused on oil prices. After two years of continually rising consumer gas prices in America, the oil futures market has captivated the Mideast storyline. And attention is much needed. December 2010 saw the highest gas prices for the month of December in our nation's history. This month, we're setting similar records with the national average of $3.14/gallon–fifty cents higher than it was a year ago. If this trend continues, the summer of 2011 will hit consumers much harder than in the summer of 2008 when prices soared above $4/gallon.

But if you only read, hear or see this week's news reports, you would think that oil and gas prices were doing just fine until the historic events in Egypt, Libya and across the Middle East unfolded this past month and caused spikes in the futures market. Unfortunately, that is not the case. President Obama has been unilaterally taking steps to increase the cost of gasoline for two years. Here are ten things you need to know about gas prices that you may not hear reported elsewhere:
1.Gas Prices Are Skyrocketing Under President Obama: The oil futures market is just that, a futures market. The price-per-barrel spikes in oil this week have not affected the domestic market yet. In fact, former Shell Oil President John Hofmeister made the prediction in December 2010 that America would face $5/gallon gasoline by 2012, a full month before the revolution in Egypt began. At the end of President George W. Bush's two terms in office, prices were 9% lower than when he took office (adjusted for inflation). The day before President Obama was inaugurated; the average price of a gallon of gas was $1.83. Today, that average is $3.14.
2.President Obama Has Crippled Domestic Oil Exploration: Putting aside calls from some who want to increase domestic exploration to areas in Alaska and elsewhere, President Obama has completely shut down the existing oil drilling infrastructure in the U.S. At least 103 permits are awaiting review by the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement. The federal government has not approved a single new exploratory drilling plan in the Gulf of Mexico since Obama "lifted" his deepwater drilling moratorium in October 2010. Obama also reversed an earlier decision by his administration to open access to coastal waters for exploration, instead placing a seven-year ban on drilling in the Atlantic and Pacific Coasts and Eastern Gulf of Mexico as part of the government's 2012-2017 Outer Continental Shelf Program.
3.The Obama Permitorium is Costing the Government Much-Needed Revenue: The Gulf accounts for more than 25 percent of domestic oil production. With production in the Gulf expected to drop in 2011 by 220,000 barrels per day, the Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates the U.S. will suffer $3.7 million in lost revenue per day as a result of lost royalties. If that holds, the federal government would lose more than $1.35 billion from royalty payments, just this year.
4.The Obama Administration Has Been Held in Contempt of Court: Federal District Court Judge Martin Feldman held the Obama Interior Department in contempt of court on February 2, 2011, for dismissively ignoring his ruling to cease the drilling moratorium which the judge had previously struck down as "arbitrary and capricious." Judge Feldman has since given the Administration 30 days to act on permits it has needlessly and purposefully delayed saying inaction was "not a lawful option."
5.Jobs Are Being Killed by Obama's Oil Policies: As a direct result of Obama's oil policies, companies that help supply our domestic energy needs are going out of business. Most recently, Houston-based Seahawk Drilling filed for bankruptcy. The Chief Operating Officer of the offshore drilling company, Randy Stilley, stated: "The decision by regulators to arbitrarily construct unnecessary barriers to obtaining permits they had traditionally authorized has had an adverse impact not only on Seahawk, but on the sector as a whole."
6.And More Jobs Are Being Killed: Vendors, suppliers, even restaurants and retailers are losing ground or going out of business as a result of the economically crippling policies Obama has unilaterally imposed. According to Reuters, many of the thirty-plus deepwater rigs in the Gulf have moved to other markets. Each rig directly employs approximately 200 people, but that doesn't even count the ripple effect across the nation. One industry official told CNBC that the industry was on "life support." But President Obama is spending billions to finance offshore jobs...in Brazil. The Obama Administration committed at least $2 billion in 2009 towards Petrobras, one of the largest offshore oil drilling companies in the world.
7.Decreasing Our Domestic Supply Increases Foreign Dependence: Even Energy Secretary Steven Chu admits that "any disruption in the Middle East means a partial disruption in the oil we import. It's a world market and [a disruption] could actually have real harm of the price." If this is the case, then cutting our domestic supply hardly seems like an appropriate response. Rather than face this reality, Secretary Chu ridiculously called for an increase in renewable energy investments, which is a complete non-sequitur.
8.Renewable Energy Is Not the Answer to Mideast Turmoil: According to the EIA, petroleum accounts for less than one percent of electricity production. So wind and solar, which do not produce transportation fuel even if Obama's $40,000 Chevy Volt quadruples production, can only replace coal and natural gas, of which America has an abundant supply. As for biomass, over 40 percent of domestic corn consumption goes to ethanol, which provides less than 10 percent of our transportation fuel and causes food prices to increase. Three large production platforms in the Gulf could provide an amount equivalent to all of the biofuels produced in the U.S.
9.Regulations and Delays: The Obama EPA has added costly new regulations to refineries in the name of global warming, while the Obama Interior Department issues new rules that make it much harder to develop natural resources on government land. The EPA is also denying approval of the Keystone pipeline which would increase the amount of oil the U.S. receives from our friendly neighbor Canada by over a million barrels per day.
10.The Middle East Is Not the Sole Cause of Rising Oil Prices: Global oil prices have been rising steadily for months based on variety of factors including those listed above and as the world economy pulls out of a recession. In fact, Egypt is not a major producer of petroleum, and only 2-3 percent of the world's supply moves through the Suez Canal. Certain spikes are not abnormal and can be more easily weathered with a smarter domestic energy strategy.
This week, Deputy Energy Secretary Daniel Poneman told Bloomberg Television: "We're hoping capacity will be brought to bear so it will continue to support our economic recovery." Mr. Poneman needs to head down his hallway to meet with his boss Secretary Chu and explain how energy prices affect an economic recovery. Because it was Chu who, in the name of environmental radicalism, stated in 2008: "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." It would seem President Obama and Secretary Chu are getting their wish and you are paying for it every day.