Symphony X - Iconoclast (June 17th)

[Perpetual Change]

I don't know if I want to get the album or not.  I've sort of "moved on" from Symphony X.  They're great, for sure....but maybe just a little too cheesy for me nowadays.

Cheese is delicious.

This.

But Iconoclast is too much. Great stuff on both discs, but really just too much music to take in at once. The title track is really, really good though.

[Zook]

Madness. Reign in MADNESS.

[Ravenheart]

I listened to several tracks. Feels like a watered-down version of Paradise Lost. Nothing special, just more typical power metal that's been done many times before.

[Lynxo]

I find it funny how The Oddysey was always considered their "heavy" and one-dimensional album (with the exception of the title track off course) but not so much anymore.

I'm kinda disappointed by the reactions in this thread - I was also hoping for less mëtül and more prog. I mean, the "sympony" part of their name gotta stand for something, right?

[RazielSR]

Wow, incredible album!! It is maybe their heaviest album. I like it a lot!
How I love this band!!!
This album is following the pattern created in Paradise Lost, heavier and darker sound. anyway, there's an amazing "ballad": When all is lost. There are some power metal choruses too. I like a lot the album, sounds really mechanic in some parts, as Romeo said, like the album's concept. There are some incredible solos, it's always a pleasure to hear Romeo playing. There are a lot of keys too, at least a lot more than in Paradise Lost. There are some ass kicking key solos.
And again, I'm sold with Allen's voice!
Some people loves the album, some other hate it because it is too heavy and Allen sounds angry as hell, but well, it is one of the spectrums of his voice, as you know, this man can sing whatever he wants without problems.
But hey, it's normal, they had their classical and neoclassical thing in many albums, now they are in a more heavy path...I like the album a lot and I enjoy it, and of course I can see that if the new album had been somekind of neoclassical stuff like the past ones, many people would say..."aaaah, they are copying the old albums!"

[PixelDream]

I was already cooled down on Symphony X before Paradise Lost came out, and when that came out it kind of reassured me that I really wasn't into them anymore. Relistening of their back catalogue then made me realize I definately prefer their classical/prog stuff with lots of keys more than the straight ahead metal of PL.

From what I've heard of this album, yes it's heavy, but I can hear the prog and classical influences once again. Just a pleasure to listen to, and Allen is great. Still with the rough voice, but more melodic than on PL.

[NecessaryPain]

I would go as far to say, if you don't like listening to metal, you won't like this album. There's only one light song, and thankfully it's one of their best.

It's the same type of fans who complain about about the 'heaviness' of Train of Thought. They think a band should do A - What they tell them to do, or B -  The same album. Again. And again. And again.

It's a double-edged sword for Symphony X because they truly cannot win. This album will raise awareness to other metal fans. Not just prog-heads who want the soft shit all the time. Personally, I like a bit of both. But i'm not going to complain when they decide to change their music and do - what they want to do.

I thought PL was great as well. So if some of you hate their last two albums, then simply put, Symphony X might not be for you. Not anymore.

[Heretic]

I would go as far to say, if you don't like listening to metal, you won't like this album. There's only one light song, and thankfully it's one of their best.

It's the same type of fans who complain about about the 'heaviness' of Train of Thought. They think a band should do A - What they tell them to do, or B -  The same album. Again. And again. And again.

It's a double-edged sword for Symphony X because they truly cannot win. This album will raise awareness to other metal fans. Not just prog-heads who want the soft shit all the time. Personally, I like a bit of both. But i'm not going to complain when they decide to change their music and do - what they want to do.

I thought PL was great as well. So if some of you hate their last two albums, then simply put, Symphony X might not be for you. Not anymore.

At first I didn't enjoy Paradise Lost, but after listening to it for a while I really enjoyed it, and it's really the only thing by Symphony X I ever put on, really.

From the few songs I've heard, I'll be in the minority of fans on this board who will enjoy this album for what it is.

[Ravenheart]

I would go as far to say, if you don't like listening to metal, you won't like this album. There's only one light song, and thankfully it's one of their best.

It's the same type of fans who complain about about the 'heaviness' of Train of Thought. They think a band should do A - What they tell them to do, or B -  The same album. Again. And again. And again.

It's a double-edged sword for Symphony X because they truly cannot win. This album will raise awareness to other metal fans. Not just prog-heads who want the soft shit all the time. Personally, I like a bit of both. But i'm not going to complain when they decide to change their music and do - what they want to do.

I thought PL was great as well. So if some of you hate their last two albums, then simply put, Symphony X might not be for you. Not anymore.

I'd rather just see them do something good and fresh. I actually liked some songs on Paradise Lost. This is just a rehash of PL in a much safer and generic format.

[EpicCookie]

Actually the word is that it leaked today, I haven't downloaded it but I've seen stuff online that looks like it could be the real thing, so maybe it has leaked.

Either way even if it leaks today or in the coming days it's only a week to go, can't wait to hear this album.

It's the real deal alright...  A friend of mine got it, and it's real

[PlaysLikeMyung]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

[NecessaryPain]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

The fans on Symphony X's official forum are allowed to talk about it. Either that, or the band don't care.

The album has already been released in some areas, and given out to others.

Quite frankly, no one really gives a shit about the inevitable arrival of leaked content anymore. It's part and parcel of the industry now, and has been for many years. Banning people over it is a step too far, IMO. People should be free to listen and give their thoughts. It's not like people are listing the websites, etc.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Take it up with bosky then

[chrisbDTM]

leave the policing to him as well

[Global Laziness]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

Actually, I didn't realize the official release date was just a couple of days from now.  So, yeah, entirely possible people have gotten their copies by now.  Okay, fine, you can discuss it.  But no mention of leaks whatsoever.  If you got it through an illegal source, don't even think about dropping any hints that that's how you got it. 


Oh, and

[Nick]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

The fans on Symphony X's official forum are allowed to talk about it. Either that, or the band don't care.

The album has already been released in some areas, and given out to others.

Quite frankly, no one really gives a shit about the inevitable arrival of leaked content anymore. It's part and parcel of the industry now, and has been for many years. Banning people over it is a step too far, IMO. People should be free to listen and give their thoughts. It's not like people are listing the websites, etc.

People do give a shit and you're being way too naive to simply say people have to accept the way things are and deal with it.

Rules and such aside I just find it incredibly inconsiderate. Many fans have payed for the music and are waiting for it but might have to avoid forums or threads on the band because of people who are illegally obtaining the music.

[jsem]

How about putting the talk about it in really small font? Like the Deconstruction thread was.

When All Is Lost is the best SX track since Odyssey title track

[NecessaryPain]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

The fans on Symphony X's official forum are allowed to talk about it. Either that, or the band don't care.

The album has already been released in some areas, and given out to others.

Quite frankly, no one really gives a shit about the inevitable arrival of leaked content anymore. It's part and parcel of the industry now, and has been for many years. Banning people over it is a step too far, IMO. People should be free to listen and give their thoughts. It's not like people are listing the websites, etc.

People do give a shit and you're being way too naive to simply say people have to accept the way things are and deal with it.

Rules and such aside I just find it incredibly inconsiderate. Many fans have payed for the music and are waiting for it but might have to avoid forums or threads on the band because of people who are illegally obtaining the music.

Well let's avoid getting into a mass-debate on illegal file sharing.

I agree that there has to be limits, but on music forums people are dying to talk about what they've heard. Restricting people from doing that is quite unfair, IMO. But I guess that's up to the admin and his thoughts and feelings on the subject. Either way, I don't think it would put the forum in a bad light at all, when it's just so common. As I said earlier, the official SX forums have its own topic on leaked content, and no one seems bothered about it, that goes for lots of other forums, too.

I agree that drawing the line on providing links etc, should not be tolerated.

[OsMosis2259]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

The fans on Symphony X's official forum are allowed to talk about it. Either that, or the band don't care.

The album has already been released in some areas, and given out to others.

Quite frankly, no one really gives a shit about the inevitable arrival of leaked content anymore. It's part and parcel of the industry now, and has been for many years. Banning people over it is a step too far, IMO. People should be free to listen and give their thoughts. It's not like people are listing the websites, etc.

People do give a shit and you're being way too naive to simply say people have to accept the way things are and deal with it.

Rules and such aside I just find it incredibly inconsiderate. Many fans have payed for the music and are waiting for it but might have to avoid forums or threads on the band because of people who are illegally obtaining the music.

Well let's avoid getting into a mass-debate on illegal file sharing.

I agree that there has to be limits, but on music forums people are dying to talk about what they've heard. Restricting people from doing that is quite unfair, IMO. But I guess that's up to the admin and his thoughts and feelings on the subject. Either way, I don't think it would put the forum in a bad light at all, when it's just so common. As I said earlier, the official SX forums have its own topic on leaked content, and no one seems bothered about it, that goes for lots of other forums, too.

I agree that drawing the line on providing links etc, should not be tolerated.

How bout we just talk about it on june 17th(on the actual release date)?
Also you are saying "this is unfair"... but it's not really fair to the artists to steal their music. I'm not pointing a finger at you or anything but I feel that the rules on this forum make perfect sense to not talk about something that isn't legally released yet.

Other than that I'm excited for this release! My pre-order should arrive on Friday or Saturday the latest.

[Perpetual Change]

jesus guys bosk said to leave discussion of leaked material off the boards. let's not have anybody banned over it

Actually, I didn't realize the official release date was just a couple of days from now.  So, yeah, entirely possible people have gotten their copies by now.  Okay, fine, you can discuss it.  But no mention of leaks whatsoever.  If you got it through an illegal source, don't even think about dropping any hints that that's how you got it. 


Oh, and

lol, modfail

[Perpetual Change]

Joking aside, I did start to realize how Iconoclast is an evolution on Paradise Lost, rather than just Paradise Lost pt II. As I'm listening through the record (still haven't finished it because it's just so much) I'm noticing that while the songs on Iconoclast sure open up heaving like the stuff on Paradise Lost, the evolve into something really symphonic by the end. So, I think I'm going to really like this album once I get through it a couple more times. Most the songs are growers that start slow but pay-off with some awesome melodies by the end.

[Volk9]

I love metal and everything, so its not a fact that I dont like the album because I dont like metal. And I very much enjoyed PL when it came out, as it still sounded like a fresh take for SymX.

But this just sounds like watered-down and generic metal with a few nice spots here and there.

[Zook]

I love metal and everything, so its not a fact that I dont like the album because I dont like metal. And I very much enjoyed PL when it came out, as it still sounded like a fresh take for SymX.

But this just sounds like watered-down and generic metal with a few nice spots here and there.

What exactly is watered down metal?

[NecessaryPain]

I love metal and everything, so its not a fact that I dont like the album because I dont like metal. And I very much enjoyed PL when it came out, as it still sounded like a fresh take for SymX.

But this just sounds like watered-down and generic metal with a few nice spots here and there.

What exactly is watered down metal?

Opeth - Watershed. 

[bosk1]

I don't get this sentence.  I hate splitting hairs over subgenres.  HOWEVER, to me, there is a pretty distinct difference between "prog metal" and "power metal" that most bands do not cross.  And I have NEVER considered SX to be prog metal.  At all.  Ever.

I think you're missing some of SX's key songs.

-The Accolade
-The Edge of Forever
-A Winter's Dream
-The Divine Wings of Tragedy
-Through The Looking Glass
-The Church of the Machine
-The Lady of the Snow
-Egypt
-Communion and the Oracle
-Rediscovery
-The Odyssey
-Awakenings
-The Accolade II
-Iconoclast (new)
-When All Is Lost (new)
-Reign In Teror (new)


These songs are about as Progressive as they get. A wide range of different sections, lots of diversity, varying atmospheres, complex song structures, 9-25 minute song lengths, complex techniques, Emphasis on synths and other non-metal instruments, variation between soft and heavy sections, unqiue sounding, and musical journey-type songs. These are songs just as progressive, if not more, than any Dream Theater song.

Yes, the elements you mention are common elements in prog.  But another important element, IMO, is the musical influence.  Progressive rock/progressive metal typically incorporates strong jazz influences, either in sound and style, or in song structure.  Power metal/symphonic metal incorporates strong classical influences (again, either in sound and style, or in song structure).  Although wikipedia isn't necessarily authoritative, it can often be helpful, so I submit this quote from the article on "progressive rock":

Additionally, the arrangements often incorporated elements drawn from classical, jazz, and world music.

So, yes, there can be a commonality between the two subgenres.  Again, I'm not trying to split hairs.  But to me, in the songs you mention, yes, I hear the complex song structures, the odd time signatures, the long arrangements with different movements and parts.  But what I also hear, and what seems clear to my ear, is that in every SX song, those things are influenced primarily by classical music.  With DT, those same elements in their songs more often sound like they are influenced primarily by jazz.  I don't hear that in any of the songs you've listed above.

[Volk9]

I love metal and everything, so its not a fact that I dont like the album because I dont like metal. And I very much enjoyed PL when it came out, as it still sounded like a fresh take for SymX.

But this just sounds like watered-down and generic metal with a few nice spots here and there.

What exactly is watered down metal?

Generic, run of the mill, sounds the same, etc.

When PL came out, I was immediately hooked from Set the World on Fire. The riff was amazing and the whole song is just badass, as is most of the rest of the album. But Iconoclast sounds really boring with no shining moments except one or two, and I swear that I've heard some of those riffs in earlier albums.

[Perpetual Change]

Yes, the elements you mention are common elements in prog.  But another important element, IMO, is the musical influence.  Progressive rock/progressive metal typically incorporates strong jazz influences, either in sound and style, or in song structure.  Power metal/symphonic metal incorporates strong classical influences (again, either in sound and style, or in song structure). 

I don't think that was the case at all for the first wave of prog metal bands, like Fates Warning and so-on. Then again, prog and power kinda grew up alongside each other, and if anything, it's bands like Queensyrche and Dream Theater who finally drew the line (DT being a bit more definitive in that regard) later on. I don't really get the jazz-classical thing, but I do agree that Symphony X rarely progress outside of the classic-tinged metal thing, which isn't that progressive at all, and if it weren't for a few really long songs in their back catalog I doubt anyone would think of them as progressive anymore at all. Another thing is influence from the classic prog bands like Yes Floyd and Genesis. Symphony X don't really have that. Dream Theater does and QR did. But did Fates Warning? I'm not really sure tbh.

I just sort of consider Symphony X to be a power metal band with really good instrumentalists. Though I would consider Divine Wings---V or The Odyssey to sort of be a "prog" era for them.

[RuRoRul]

I don't really care that much about the genre, especially when it's stuff like "progressive" where you get people saying DT aren't progressive metal, even though they are perhaps the defining example of that genre. Symphony X are whatever they are, and it just so happens what they are is called "progressive metal" by a lot of people, and that if you check their genre anywhere you'll probably find "progressive metal" tinged with power metal with neoclassical influences. So I'm happy enough to just call them that since it's the most agreed upon label, which is really all the genre is.

[Vajra]

Anyone else notice how Thrash-oriented this album is? I'd say the majority of the riffs in this album are Thrash, which is great because I'm a huge Metallica fan. (My first favorite band that got me into music)

Yes, the elements you mention are common elements in prog.  But another important element, IMO, is the musical influence.  Progressive rock/progressive metal typically incorporates strong jazz influences, either in sound and style, or in song structure.  Power metal/symphonic metal incorporates strong classical influences (again, either in sound and style, or in song structure).  Although wikipedia isn't necessarily authoritative, it can often be helpful, so I submit this quote from the article on "progressive rock":


QuoteAdditionally, the arrangements often incorporated elements drawn from classical, jazz, and world music.

So, yes, there can be a commonality between the two subgenres.  Again, I'm not trying to split hairs.  But to me, in the songs you mention, yes, I hear the complex song structures, the odd time signatures, the long arrangements with different movements and parts.  But what I also hear, and what seems clear to my ear, is that in every SX song, those things are influenced primarily by classical music.  With DT, those same elements in their songs more often sound like they are influenced primarily by jazz.  I don't hear that in any of the songs you've listed above.

Well even though SX doesn't get too diverse or jazz oriented like other Prog bands. they're still progessive none the less.

[jsem]

Communion and the Oracle is their version of Tubular Bells basically.

It IS prog.

[Zook]

I'm pretty sure When All is Lost is about illegal downloading.

[LCArenas]

THE HUMAN EYES

[Zook]

THE HUMAN EYES

YOU KNOW IT'S SAND PATROOOOOOL!

My review. Mobile users beware:





Iconoclast - Besides the reused Wicked riff (which just so happens to be the main riff), this song is excellent.
The End Of Innocence - Love the keys on this song. Verses are great and the chorus is OK, but kinda lacking.
Dehumanized - The chorus drags a bit, but this song is still bad ass. As I've said before, "hit the switch you son of a bitch" as corny as it is, is my favorite part of the whole song.
Bastards Of The Machine - Here's another bad ass song only let down by an extremely mediocre chorus, although that same chorus is catchy as hell. The solo section is kick ass.
Heretic - Besides ripping off the melody to Shortest Straw's Chorus, this song is also awesome.
Children Of A Faceless God - Still kinda boring...
When All Is Lost - A great ballady song in the same vein as Paradise Lost, but it gets heavier. At 4:40 we're treated to some Innocence Faded, and toward the end there's some more awesome shredding.

Electric Messiah - This song opens with signature Iconoclast riffing, and then a reprise of sorts to the End Of Innocence keys, but way faster. An OK chorus here. Oh, and FIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
Prometheus (I Am Alive) - Cool little instrumental at the beginning and into the first verse which reminds me of Pantera. Good chorus.Typical song.
Light Up The Night - Whoa crazy drums, whoa I've heard that riff before. This song has my favorite chorus on the album. The unison from Fallen makes an appearance here, but just slightly different. Still great instrumental section.
The Lord Of Chaos - All I can say is after such an amazing set up with the pre-chorus, this song totally fails with the chorus. So boring. This song sits nicely with CoaFG as my least favorites. Shame.
Reign in Madness - The intro is something SX has never done before, unfortunately it lasts only 17 seconds. But it goes into some cool riffage. The verses are really good. There's some Jon Schaffer type vocals here "or so it's said". We have a good chorus, into Pantera's Walk, with remnants of Serpent's Kiss. Still sounds cool. Slow section time. Some repeated lines from..... well, from Serpent's Kiss lol. Some eerie music which sounds cool. OH SHIT  into the last chorus. End.

The problem with this album is that none of the songs have their own identity, like say, The Odyssey, or any of their other albums. I couldn't disagree more with everyone saying that Paradise Lost sounded samey, but with this album, I agree. Iconoclast is Symphony X's Crucible of Man, but way better. Sorry Jon. Please don't fuck up again. Overall, I give this album a 6/10. I'm still gonna buy it.

This would be my single disc version of Iconoclast:
Iconoclast
The End of Innocence
Dehumanized
Bastards of the Machine
Heretic
When All Is Lost
Electric Messiah
Prometheus (I Am Alive)
Light Up the Night
Reign In Madness

[NecessaryPain]

I actually really dig The Lords of Chaos.

[OsMosis2259]

My album is here! Damn that was earlier than I expected. I was expecting either tomorrow or Saturday.

I will listen tonight