"what did GWB promise that he didnt deliver?" EV

[eric42434224]

he had em he used them..

That's such an overstatement it's almost immoral and, either way, what we found there was nothing close to the WMDs and miles and miles of Anthrax in underground labs that W promised.

and yoru numbers are wrong on civis..

It depends who you ask. My numbers are middle of the road.

the UN voted it,

Yeah, they said no?

we had the biggest coalition ever, far bigger then the coalition under Obama.

Because most nations backed out when they realized that we weren't doing anything there but blasting Iraq back to a pre-Sumerian existence?

we freed millions

Funny how "free" works here. I guess people are "free" to try and do whatever they want when they have absolutely no security and their previous lives have been taken away from them.

..Clinton was bombing also

That makes it okay?



Honestly, Epicview, for someone who claims to specialize in the Middle East, you have a fascinating disregard for the quality of people's lives over there. I don't expect normal, suburban America to question why the Land of the Free is busy carpet bombing civilian populations, or why foreigners whose names we can't pronounce are willing to strap bombs to their chests and blow themselves up to keep us out of their borders, or even why we have robots killing people over there now, but I'd expect a bit more from someone claiming to be an "expert". How can you study our policy towards the middle east over the past quarter of a century and then turn around and pretend that the lack of accountability actually begins with Obama?  

Here is the new thread per EV request.

[EPICVIEW]

again.. when someone says "the Iraq war was Illegal" ,,, thats a non starter for me. it was legal.

again, El Beradia was complicit with Saddam and allowed the baathist regime to take months to bring convoys of "contraband" into Syria. Israel has the ariel surveilance of the convoys going for months, evne shared them with the UN and of course the USA

UN Voted that the war was legal, even tho they were being paid off.. El Baredia is complicit

our troops do not target civilians.. I highly doubt those figures.. sorry... no way.

unless one wants to get deep into Oil for Food ( which nobody here ever does) there is no point to talk about this subject.

post 9/11 the world changed..I thank GWB for all he did to keep us safe, we all should.

Clinton was already bombing away for nonsense, nobody seamed to care. He used it to keep our eyes off the Blue Dress.


and yes, we brought freedom to Iraq..



again GWB did NOT Promise "WMDS" he promised us safety.


why are we talking about this.? to take our eyes off Obama's Cloward Piven Scam

[tjanuranus]

again.. when someone says "the Iraq war was Illegal" ,,, thats a non starter for me. it was legal.

again, El Beradia was complicit with Saddam and allowed the baathist regime to take months to bring convoys of "contraband" into Syria.

our troops do not taregt civilians.. I highly doubt those figures.. sorry... no way.

unless one wnats to get deep into Oil for Food ( which nobody here ever does) there is no point to talk about this subject.

post 9/11 the oworld changed..I thank GWB for all he did to keep us safe, we all should.

Clinton was already bombing away for nonsense, nobody seamed to care. He used it to keep our eyes off the Blue Dress.


and yes, we brought freedom  to Iraq..

Well it was unconstitutional. Illegal or not.

[rumborak]

I think it's facetious to say Iraq has freedom. The real test will come when the country is left on its own. At least in my book, "freedom" through occupation is not freedom.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

again.. when someone says "the Iraq war was Illegal" ,,, thats a non starter for me. it was legal.

again, El Beradia was complicit with Saddam and allowed the baathist regime to take months to bring convoys of "contraband" into Syria.

our troops do not taregt civilians.. I highly doubt those figures.. sorry... no way.

unless one wnats to get deep into Oil for Food ( which nobody here ever does) there is no point to talk about this subject.

post 9/11 the oworld changed..I thank GWB for all he did to keep us safe, we all should.

Clinton was already bombing away for nonsense, nobody seamed to care. He used it to keep our eyes off the Blue Dress.


and yes, we brought freedom  to Iraq..

Well it was unconstitutional. Illegal or not.

huh?

[EPICVIEW]

I think it's facetious to say Iraq has freedom. The real test will come when the country is left on its own. At least in my book, "freedom" through occupation is not freedom.

rumborak

certainly more then they ever had.. women are freer, and the rape rooms are closed. the Kurds no longer live in fear

[rumborak]

All enforced through heavy military presence, and barely so I might add. If Iraq was free, the troops would have been home a long time ago.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

All enforced through heavy military presence, and barely so I might add. If Iraq was free, the troops would have been home a long time ago.

rumborak

Yada...yea.. living in the real world here.. we still have bases post WWII... maybe Japans not free too.

us adults know it takes time.. we ok with that..part of being the USA.

[rumborak]

I think you know yourself that calling Iraq free is a white lie at best. Having post-WWII bases in certain countries != 46,000 people engaged in street fiights.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

I think you know yourself that calling Iraq free is a white lie at best. Having post-WWII bases in certain countries != 46,000 people engaged in street fiights.

rumborak

your words not mine.. your views are from another galaxy to mine.. My buds are proud of the work they do there..they want to stay and make sure the sacrifice was not wasted.

some polly anna Liberals  would say we aint free in the USA... that GWB took our freedoms.. but its really Obama who is to be feared on freedoms. Inaction is more dangerous then action

[rumborak]

You're moving the goalpost. The determination of the soldiers down there has nothing to do with whether Iraq is free or not.
With your argument, the American colonies were free too, after all the British soldiers kept the peace!

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

You're moving the goalpost. The determination of the soldiers down there has nothing to do with whether Iraq is free or not.

rumborak

I thnk GWB has already adressed the question. The process is under way and moving well in the right direction, even if we dont agree with who they elect.
 also unless you use some sort of factual links do not agree with your 46,000 engaged in street fights today.

[PowerSlave]

some polly anna Liberals  would say we aint free in the USA... that GWB took our freedoms.. but its really Obama who is to be feared on freedoms. Inaction is more dangerous then action

And most libertarians, many republicans that seem to be changing their tune on the patriot act and other related "legislation"...

Ahh, dismissive labels...the weapon of the tragically clueless. Next you'll jump onto the "moocher" bandwagon from a month or so ago.

[EPICVIEW]

some polly anna Liberals  would say we aint free in the USA... that GWB took our freedoms.. but its really Obama who is to be feared on freedoms. Inaction is more dangerous then action

And most libertarians, many republicans that seem to be changing their tune on the patriot act and other related "legislation"...

Ahh, dismissive labels...the weapon of the tragically clueless. Next you'll jump onto the "moocher" bandwagon from a month or so ago.

Im all for the partiot act...who isnt? I know Obama was against it and is trying to water it down with Holder....but I dont undesrstand your post

[GuineaPig]

LOL

[PowerSlave]

some polly anna Liberals  would say we aint free in the USA... that GWB took our freedoms.. but its really Obama who is to be feared on freedoms. Inaction is more dangerous then action

And most libertarians, many republicans that seem to be changing their tune on the patriot act and other related "legislation"...

Ahh, dismissive labels...the weapon of the tragically clueless. Next you'll jump onto the "moocher" bandwagon from a month or so ago.

Im all for the partiot act...who isnt? I know Obama was against it and is trying to water it down with Holder....but I dont undesrstand your post

I'm against any legislation that allows the federal government to stick it's collective dick into the constitution.

I'm heading out the door to work as we speak but, I'll be happy to go into why anyone that claims to be for freedom and supports the patriot act is either clueless or completely full of shit when I get home tonight.

[EPICVIEW]

Nobody who knows what it is claims its for "freedom" its a counter terrorism tool that allows for tracking of overseas calls to and from dangerous areas overseas. it has not taken any freedoms from us, but has assisted in out safety, as we cant get a wire tap warrant as we dont know what it is or what number till we overhear it, decode and compare it for patterns, and the use of disposable cell phones etc, so its more of a collection umbrella that is filtered. I can care less, its for the protection of the citizens of the USA and I dont worry about it as an stepping on my freedoms..The job of the President is to protect us within our country, I thank GWB for doing it. If Clinton did, maybe 3,000 would be alive in NYC today, Clinton is a jackass

I know all about it.. ive read all about it.. but if others here want to lament how horrible it is, as they thmesleves have never been effected by it go right ahead..

Im more worried about the tracking device Obama is putting in the new cell phones personally..


and looky..it may have saved my life.
https://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/20/114526.shtml

[El Barto]

Iraq is only safer if you're comparing 100 people blown to bits each week now, rather than each day like a few years ago.  Either way, it's a far more dangerous place to buy groceries now than it was under Sadam.  Sadam was an asshole, but save for his two degenerate kids, he ran a pretty tight ship. The smart move would have been to buddy up to him, like we did 30 years ago.  He would have been a much better ally than your pals in Saudi Arabia that Daddy Dumbass climbed into bed with.

And as an aside, I suspect the Kurds are a helluva lot more worried about what happens when we leave and they have pissed off Muslims to the South and there bestest buddies in the whole world, the Turks to their North. 

Setting aside the decimation of several amendments for a second, consider that the USAPATRIOT Act wasn't necessary to prevent 911.  It was merely a power grab after the fact.  They didn't need wiretaps.  They didn't need faster access to warrants.  All they needed was somebody to look at the fucking clues staring them in the face.  It might have been Dumbass if he hadn't been so pre-occupied looking for an excuse to go into Iraq.  People were firing off reports left and right about these guys, and nobody was interested in putting them together.  They had all the tools they needed to prevent that and they didn't need to shit on the Bill or Rights to do it.  The USAPATRIOT Act was just a convenient way to grab some power and deflect criticism from those who so greatly deserve it (and yes, that includes Clinton to a small extent). 

As for cellphone tracking, there's no device needed.  The only thing required is the right to sift through tower logs without a warrant, which people like you think is a swell idea.  Honestly, things like that really make you look quite delusional. 

I could write a treatise on why the USAPATRIOT Act is evil, why it's entirely counterproductive, and why it was completely unnecessary, but I really don't see the point.  You'll merely defend the Bush provisions, attack the Obama continuances of them, and generally disregard the entire thing as it's incompatible with your preconceptions. 

[eric42434224]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

[EPICVIEW]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I dont know how you can say that, but thats your opinion.. again the Patriot act works.. but its the same ole song and dance around here.

[eric42434224]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I dont know how you can say that, but thats your opinion.. again the Patriot act works.. but its the same ole song and dance around here.

I said it because his post made sense.  Why else would I say it?

[EPICVIEW]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I dont know how you can say that, but thats your opinion.. again the Patriot act works.. but its the same ole song and dance around here.

I said it because his post made sense.  Why else would I say it?

becasue you knew how safe it was under Saddam? or what the Kurds think.?... wowza.  adn your sure we aerre more safe without the partiot act, even tho it saved the Brooklyn Bridge plot from happening,
EB is worng on cell phones tracking..and what he is saying is irrelevent to the Patriot Act or the new chip Obama is puttinng in that cant be taken out or turned off

[eric42434224]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I dont know how you can say that, but thats your opinion.. again the Patriot act works.. but its the same ole song and dance around here.

I said it because his post made sense.  Why else would I say it?

becasue you knew how safe it was under Saddam? or what the Kurds think.?... wowza.  adn your sure we aerre more safe without the partiot act, even tho it saved the Brooklyn Bridge plot from happening

I know a hell of a lot more red blooded American soldiers have died in Iraq since we invaded.  How many Americans were killed when Saddam was in power?  I would say it was safer under Saddam thanks

If you can show me that the Brooklyn Bridge plot was prevented only because of the Patriot Act, and the prevention was not possible through other established means, then you might have a point.  Post the source so I can concede 

[EPICVIEW]

adn No EB, I am for the Patriot Act, and against Obama and Holder attacking it and watering it down.

its been 8 years, I lost No freedoms.. and it may have saved me.

sorry on the double post, but the screen is jumpping when I use quotes and I cant see what Im typing.

[EPICVIEW]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I dont know how you can say that, but thats your opinion.. again the Patriot act works.. but its the same ole song and dance around here.

I said it because his post made sense.  Why else would I say it?

becasue you knew how safe it was under Saddam? or what the Kurds think.?... wowza.  adn your sure we aerre more safe without the partiot act, even tho it saved the Brooklyn Bridge plot from happening

I know a hell of a lot more red blooded American soldiers have died in Iraq since we invaded.  How many Americans were killed when Saddam was in power?  I would say it was safer under Saddam thanks

If you can show me that the Brooklyn Bridge plot was prevented only because of the Patriot Act, and the prevention was not possible through other established means, then you might have a point.  Post the source so I can concede 

I already posted it.. look for the link in my prior posts.. and I know that Clinton did nothign and 3,000 red blooded americans died in my city..

[El Barto]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I read that as EV and was quite puzzled.  Then followed several posts where he attacked you, ostensibly for suggesting that he was making sense, was was all the more confusing.   

[EPICVIEW]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I read that as EV and was quite puzzled.  Then followed several posts where he attacked you, ostensibly for suggesting that he was making sense, was was all the more confusing.   

say huh? really?... Im confused

[El Barto]

adn No EB, I am for the Patriot Act, and against Obama and Holder attacking it and watering it down.

Obama and Holder's silly asses have taken the USAPATRIOT Act and run with it.  They've fought to prevent parts of it from sunsetting, and they've pushed for strengthening it and defended it from lawsuits (many of which had great merit).  The fact that you can't see when somebody is working for what you want because you don't like them is exactly why people can't take your opinions seriously.  You're completely devoid of any sense of objectivity. 

[eric42434224]

EB, please stop making sense....it is off topic.
Start a new thread if you insist on making sense.
Thank you.

I dont know how you can say that, but thats your opinion.. again the Patriot act works.. but its the same ole song and dance around here.

I said it because his post made sense.  Why else would I say it?

becasue you knew how safe it was under Saddam? or what the Kurds think.?... wowza.  adn your sure we aerre more safe without the partiot act, even tho it saved the Brooklyn Bridge plot from happening

I know a hell of a lot more red blooded American soldiers have died in Iraq since we invaded.  How many Americans were killed when Saddam was in power?  I would say it was safer under Saddam thanks

If you can show me that the Brooklyn Bridge plot was prevented only because of the Patriot Act, and the prevention was not possible through other established means, then you might have a point.  Post the source so I can concede 

I already posted it.. look for the link in my prior posts.. and I know that Clinton did nothign and 3,000 red blooded americans died in my city..

I do not see any link showing that the Brooklyn Bridge plot was thwarted only because of the patriot act, and that the same results COULDNT have been achieved by other existing means.  Try again.

So if Clinton has the blood of 3000 on his hands, Bush has what...4500 US military deaths in Iraq?  Maybe 100k plus other deaths in Iraq?
I guess Bush wins.

[Ryzee]

I have a serious question for Mr. Epicview:

Was there a U.S. President (in your lifetime) that was a Democrat that you thought was ok?  Not a total piece of shit, just ok?  And on the flip side, was there a Republican president that you thought was ok?  Not completely awesome, just ok?


It's clear that Mr. View has political options (epicviews you might say  ) that pretty much nobody on this board agrees with.  So I have to wonder, Epicview, why do you keep posting in P & R?  Do you think one day the lightbulb is going to go off for everyone and they'll thank you for hipping them to the liberal/muslim/whoever plot to destroy America?  And to everyone else- as has been pointed out I think a few times now, Mr. View is pretty set in his ways and is not about to budge from his positions or give anyone else's the time of day anytime soon.  So why keep responding to his posts?  Keep in mind, I'm not trying to tell EV not to post or tell anyone else not to respond to him, I just notice a pretty consistent cycle here and am wondering what the goals/benefits are of constantly repeating it.

[El Barto]

There are plenty of discussions that go on here which will never see resolution.  Nobody's going to convince Bosk that there is no God.  Nobody's going to convince William Wallace that the government isn't completely useless.  Health care and global warming come up here quite a bit as well and the lines are pretty clearly drawn there.  That said, there's still something to be gained from the exercise.  I seriously doubt that anybody could convince Mr. View ( ) that Obama might have a good quality or that Bush might have made a mistake or two during his presidency, but the discussion itself isn't always pointless.  Tangents arise, as do learning opportunities.

And to be fair, there are nooks and crannies in EV's ideology that contain some more mainstream bits that others might agree with.  I haven't seen anybody willing to back him up on the whole Manchurian Candidate thing, but his more general opinions regarding Bush do have a couple of supporters. 

[tjanuranus]

I got Clinton was the one who ignored the 911 warnings. Oh wait those were given to bush and he did nothing about it. But yeah Clinton is to blame alright. And at least he tried to kill osama unlike bush who said he wasn't concerned with Osama anymore.

[rumborak]

I can't really fault either Clinton or Bush for not doing anything before 9/11. How do you get support to counteract an event that simply doesn't exist in the American psyche? Sadly, 9/11 needed to happen for the public to support any action on the topic.

rumborak

[orcus116]

Im all for the partiot act...who isnt?

I dunno, maybe rational thinking people.

[El Barto]

Im all for the partiot act...who isnt?

I dunno, maybe rational thinking people.

Ya know, wouldn't you think that something which was vehemently supported by both Bush and Obama would be universally hated?