Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions

[orcus116]

See my "review" post.  I think anyone who makes this criticism is WAY off base.  The lyrics range from good to great throughout the album.  The band deserves no criticism whatsoever in the lyrics department on this album.

I strongly disagree. Not only do the lyrics sound lazier than most on Systematic Chaos (which is hard to do) but most come out more disappointing than usual due to how personal they were supposed to be. Granted some poor vocal melody choices lead some otherwise normal lines to be presented badly but it's hard to sing most of A Nightmare To Remember, The Count of Tuscany and The Best of Times and have it come out sounding fresh and sincere. On the flipside there isn't anything particularly wrong with something like Wither but it's so basic and cliche it's almost throwaway, lyrically. In my review I think I compared it to Hollow Years in terms of that. The good moments do shine, though, such as the "Peaceful sedation" and "I am responsible!" parts but they are few and far between.

[orcus116]

How can you not like TDS?!

It's pretty average. Definitely the least good 12-step song.

Nah, that award goes to TGP

[j]

Train of Thought is my top album, and WDaDU is very underrated. I've discussed it elsewhere a billion times, so I'm not going to weight this thread down with it, but those are my opinions.

Dead wrong about Train of Thought, but right on the money with WDADU.  I'll give you one of these:  .

[/quote]

I don't think it is better than anything before SC.

You mean other than ToT and Octavarium, right?  'Cause this album is at LEAST better than those three.   

Since I am not an Admin I can criticize... or I thought I could express my opinion. Admins can follow the preacher blindly.

He wasn't trying to suppress you from giving your opinion, he was just expressing his own.  I didn't think either was done unreasonably, although I disagree with bosk1 about one thing: the lyrics of TBOT.  Maybe it's just personal preference, but there are just several lines that don't seem up to par.  *shrug*  Sure, the band doesn't "deserve" any criticism for their lyrics; it's their music after all.  But when I hear some of the TBOT lyrics (this does not apply to the whole song, mind you), I can't help but think that they can do better than that.

-J

[tri.ad]

Something I noticed: JP's clean guitar tone is a bit similar to Steve Rothery's on this album, imo (especially on ANTR). It's just the lack of the strongly present highs and reverb that make the difference. I could be wrong, though.

[emindead]

How can you not like TDS?!

It's pretty average. Definitely the least good 12-step song.

Nah, that award goes to TGP

[Fuzzboy]

Something I noticed: JP's clean guitar tone is a bit similar to Steve Rothery's on this album, imo (especially on ANTR). It's just the lack of the strongly present highs and reverb that make the difference. I could be wrong, though.

I prefer his clean tone for this album than for SC. I thought it sounded to twangy on SC. Clean tone on Score was his best IMO.

[Dimitrius]

How can you not like TDS?!

It's pretty average. Definitely the least good 12-step song.

Nah, that award goes to TGP

Are you on fucking drugs?!?!?!

[robwebster]

There's a really... dreamlike quality to it.

It's like it's not quite there. But in a good way. Each song other than AROP seems to be kind of laced with a slightly surreal quality, the album's really dreamy compared to DT's usual stuff. The Shattered Fortress included, it's like a warped version of what came before, just unfamiliar enough to catch you right off guard.



Er quick recap, not song-by-song because I can't be arsed, but just things that strike me and I feel like mentioning.

The outro to the Best of Times really sticks out to me. The music carries on, and just gets more intense if anything, but it's like the listener is fading away. I had a bit of a moment.

I don't get why "The Count of Tuscany" is a funny title and probably never will, but musically it's nigh-on perfect, as loads of people have already said. I'm going to veer from the crowd though and say it's really cool lyrically too, though. It's eccentric, it just... fits. It's halfway between whimsy and deadpan, and it's written in an upper-class accent - but subtly. Loads of people think it's shit so maybe I'm just thinking too hard, but even before I heard the song I read through 'em and kinda felt like I could tell exactly what the Count was like. It's a very strange topic and written with eccentric undertones, I think that's perfect.

A Nightmare to Remember is the best song, and is the ideal combo of melody and heaviness. By which I mean all the heaviness has melody, and the melodies are always brilliant. The "without warning, out of nowhere, like a bullet from the night" is magical - although it's inevitably eclipsed by "peaceful sedation," which is one of the band's all time highlights. But I'm not going to repeat what everyone's already said.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I just put my review up. Check it out.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

So far (one full listen) I love most of the album. But I have a feeling it's going to end up in my bottom 3 or 4.

[Volk9]

How can you not like TDS?!

It's pretty average. Definitely the least good 12-step song.

Nah, that award goes to TGP

Are you on fucking drugs?!?!?!

Nope Its just that after the intro riff and the arpeggios, the song loses a TON of steam and staying power.

In my opinion of course.

[dedSurroun]

First thoughts are mixed. Most songs have moments of musical bliss and it's some of their best stuff, ever.

When I first saw the title A Nightmare To Remember, I figured Dream Theater had gone Alice Cooper on us. Well, partially. Much of the song sounds recycled and a horror show in boredom. One the plus side, DT is copying themselves. On the other hand, you've heard it before and it leaves you with an empty feeling. But the song has its merits, musically.

But A Rite Of Passage bores me to tears. It's marginally better than Constant Motion and that song is on par with You Not Me (translation: horrible).

Petrucci wrote all of Wither. You can tell. Essentially a guitar-only song, it belongs on a solo album. I skipped it halfway through, went back to give it another chance, got a full listen, ultimately decided it's a song the album could've left behind. It adds nothing.

The Shattered Fortress is barely listenable. Drives me to drink. What an anti-climax to an otherwise pretty good previous output. I understand the point of the song and all other intellectual justifications you can come up with but, seriously, I'll pay money to the person who can enjoy listening to it more than a few times.

Things get a little better with The Best Of Times, but the lyrics weigh the song down and, musically, on another album it would be a great song but in the context of some other moments of musical splendor on this album, it's reduced to being bland.

Whether the lyrics are serious or a joke, they simply do not if the music of The Count Of Tuscany. I can't even find words to describe this abomination. What a waste of such amazing music. This song could've placed itself as a Top 5 DT song. Imagine this music with lyrics from the days of I&W and Awake? Knock-out. Every Dream Theater fan would've entered into shock. Instead, we have.....this? What a waste.

Basically, most, if not all, lyrics on this album is some of the worst ever written by Petrucci and Portnoy. A huge disappointment and enough of such to disqualify this album from placing itself in the top 5 of DT albums, probably.

Musically, it's a huge step in the right direction since SC. Most of it sounds fresh and creative. There are a few sections I wish I'd never heard but some of it is simply sublime.

 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

When I first saw the title A Nightmare To Remember, I figured Dream Theater had gone Alice Cooper on us. Well, partially. Much of the song sounds recycled and a horror show in boredom. One the plus side, DT is copying themselves. On the other hand, you've heard it before and it leaves you with an empty feeling. But the song has its merits, musically.

Whoa. I, for one, think that DT aren't copying themselves in any sort of way with this song. Sure, it has the typical JP/JR trade off section, but I've yet to hear a DT song that is similar to ANTR. One of this song's greatest merits is that DT was meddling into some new territory, and they successfully did so (with the exception of some parts, of course, day after day.)

[orcus116]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks nearly all the lyrics are garbage.

[dedSurroun]

When I first saw the title A Nightmare To Remember, I figured Dream Theater had gone Alice Cooper on us. Well, partially. Much of the song sounds recycled and a horror show in boredom. One the plus side, DT is copying themselves. On the other hand, you've heard it before and it leaves you with an empty feeling. But the song has its merits, musically.

Whoa. I, for one, think that DT aren't copying themselves in any sort of way with this song. Sure, it has the typical JP/JR trade off section, but I've yet to hear a DT song that is similar to ANTR. One of this song's greatest merits is that DT was meddling into some new territory, and they successfully did so (with the exception of some parts, of course, day after day.)

Listen to the first section. You'll hear music found on SFAM, for example. Re-used and altered, but the same, nonetheless. I'll try to identify specific songs but my first thought upon listening was "wait, where have I heard this before?"

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I can't recall anything that is near as heavy in SFAM as Nightmare's beginning.

[dedSurroun]

I'm not talking about "heaviness" - I'm talking about the music, as in melodies, etc.

[Fuzzboy]

Nope, I don't hear it. I can understand a comparison to some parts of fatal tragedy (vibe-wise), but they still sound nothing alike to me.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yeah, you can blame ANTR for a lot of things (which isn't such a precise thing, because the song is very good as it is), but DT ripping themselves isn't one of them.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, you can blame ANTR for a lot of things (which isn't such a precise thing, because the song is very good as it is), but DT ripping themselves isn't one of them.

Agreed.

[squishyboots]

Just listened through.

Don't want to say dissapointed, but, it's in the middle for me.

It had its moments, and it surely had it's lows.

However, I feel that it was enjoyable.

[Slain]

Loved the CD. Not sure where I'd rank it yet, but it's definitley very high. I get the criticisms on the lyrics, but I like most of the lyrics for some reason, the simplistic lyrics of CoT made it interesting.

Or maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy. I don't care... 4.5/5

[7StringedBeast]

Well I'm finally posting for the first time since getting the record!!  Ok so here are my reactions:

HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY.  I see that gothic thing right off the bat with the first few chords and synth pads, very cool stuff. 

The first track is a complete trip!!  The only thing that really threw me off was the parts where it was trying to be power metal/opeth. 

Lots of good moments, but I think my overall reaction to this album is i am just baffled.  I really don't know what to make of it yet.  I really think this album is going to be a grower.  The more I listen the more I'm sure I will start to fall in love with it.  All my fav DT albums have been very hard to get into at first so I expect this one will get better over time.

Also, I'm listening to a right of passage right now, and the intro bass guitar sound before the distorted metal riff are sooooo fucking cool, I want more of that!!!!

It's way too early to have full opinions right now, but so far I am happy with it even though I'm still confused by the musical direction.

[j]

I dunno, I don't think the lyrics are all "garbage", they're just very average.  A few parts probably qualify as garbage, but for example, the lyrics of AROP, Wither, TSF, and ANTR (for the most part) don't bother me at all because they aren't *glaringly* bad.  They don't stick out and distract you like parts of TBOT and TCOT, with the exception of the way Portnoy delivers the last part of his vocal section on ANTR.

That said, I can't help but expect a little more from them, mostly because they've written plenty of good to great lyrics in the past.

-J

[trial-of-tears]

Here is my review in one word.....AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

[Ultimetalhead]

Here is my review in one word.....AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you. 

[Nuance]

This is the fifth new release DT has put out since I've been a fan, and none have been bad to my ears.  However, this album is the best since 6DOIT, in my opinion.  9/10

Edit:  I should mention something...I'm of a different breed of metalhead.  I usually don't pay much attention to lyrics at all (unless they are truly THAT good), perhaps due to all the melodic death metal I listen to (Children of Bodom, older In Flames, etc) and the fact that that style's lyrics are hard to make out.  For me, it's ALL about the music, so the "bad lyrics" on BC&SL don't bother me at all.  If they were telling us to worship Satan or rape women, sure, I'd stop listening.  But they aren't signing about that psychotic stuff, so I don't care that the lyrics are cheesy.  Again, it's all about the music for me, and in that department Dream Theater once again delivers.

Finally, this is just my opinion, and your mileage may vary.    

[zxc]

I don't get why "The Count of Tuscany" is a funny title and probably never will, but musically it's nigh-on perfect, as loads of people have already said. I'm going to veer from the crowd though and say it's really cool lyrically too, though. It's eccentric, it just... fits. It's halfway between whimsy and deadpan, and it's written in an upper-class accent - but subtly. Loads of people think it's shit so maybe I'm just thinking too hard, but even before I heard the song I read through 'em and kinda felt like I could tell exactly what the Count was like. It's a very strange topic and written with eccentric undertones, I think that's perfect.

I strongly agree with this.

The Shattered Fortress is barely listenable. Drives me to drink. What an anti-climax to an otherwise pretty good previous output. I understand the point of the song and all other intellectual justifications you can come up with but, seriously, I'll pay money to the person who can enjoy listening to it more than a few times.

I want my money.


The only bit of the album that truly does annoy me is the soloing/growls in ANtR.  One or two lyrical moments seemed awkward in TSF and TBoT, but other than that, I have few problems with the lyrics on the album (I admit that they're not at level of I&W/Awake but they're good enough).

Best moments in the album for me were the intro to ANtR, the soft middle of ANtR, second half of guitar solo and 'I am responsible' part of TSF, and the whole of TCoT.

This is the fifth new release DT has put out since I've been a fan, and none have been bad to my ears.  However, this album is the best since 6DOIT, in my opinion.  9/10

I agree here.  Only, the mainstream-ish songs in 8VM and SC were for the most part unlistenable to me.

[BlobVanDam]

a) Can anybody stop MP from singing please?!  Seriously..., seriously. He can actually start a side project with him on lead vocals if he wants.

No way.  He sounds fantastic.

b) Some songs needed serious editing (Producer, anybody?).

Nah, not much.  Yeah, the edit of AROP does sound better than the album version.  But there is little if anything I would cut from anything else.  They pretty much nailed it with the rest of these tracks.

c) Some lyrics need a lot of extra work. The only one I really don't complain about is TBOT cuz I understand where MP was coming from.. even though they are pretty generic and straight forward. 

See my "review" post.  I think anyone who makes this criticism is WAY off base.  The lyrics range from good to great throughout the album.  The band deserves no criticism whatsoever in the lyrics department on this album.

d) TSF is one big Potpourri. Not going anywhere....

Potpourri is probably the best word I've seen to describe this song.  Yes.  Yes, it is.  And that's why it works.  Very good closer to the suite.

e) I really miss some of the crazy wankery... I do. But I also aknowledge the fact that it has amazing melodic solos.

I actually have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Since I am not an Admin I can criticize... or I thought I could express my opinion. Admins can follow the preacher blindly.

I think MP kills ANTR.

Holy crapping fail! You are the complete embodiment of all generic criticism against DT. It would be amusing if I didn't think you were being completely serious

[Nuance]

No solos in the instrumental version of the CD included in the 3-disc collection?     What the...?  That was a mistake...

[zxc]

No solos in the instrumental version of the CD included in the 3-disc collection?     What the...?  That was a mistake...

I was surprised too.  Maybe someone can make a good instrumental mix with the best solos in

[BlobVanDam]

I know a few people are complaining about the instrumental mixes not featuring solos, but there were two ways they could have approached the instrumentals. They could have left in the solos and tried to make them instrumental tracks in the traditional sense of being intended that way, but instead they went for the approach of being a backing track for all lead instruments, whether it be vocals, guitar or keyboard. Personally I prefer the latter approach, being more of a musician, but from a purely listening angle, I can understand why many would have preferred solos.
Thankfully with the stems, people can mix it exactly how they want it anyway.

[Basekick]

No solos in the instrumental version of the CD included in the 3-disc collection?    What the...?  That was a mistake...

I was shocked to hear this as well.  Moreso with the fact that I think this album has Petrucci's best solos overall on any DT album:

TSF solo over the TROAE riff
TBoT outro solo
Main RoP solo
Wither Brian May solo
TCoT outro solo
ANTR solos midway through are just face-meltingly awesome (especially the early wah solo...my gawd  ).

Petrucci is an absolute BEAST on this album.  More than any other album he's put out.  

[Dellers]

How can you not like TDS?!

It's pretty average. Definitely the least good 12-step song.

Nah, that award goes to TGP

Are you on fucking drugs?!?!?!

Nope Its just that after the intro riff and the arpeggios, the song loses a TON of steam and staying power.

In my opinion of course.

I have to agree with you, TGP is by far the most boring song in the 12-step-saga. The beginning is pretty cool, but then it's like 12 minutes left of not-that-interesting riffs. The vocal melodies are just totally uninteresting. One of very few DT-songs I don't manage to get in a good mood when hearing. The rest of the AA-saga is more to my taste, and TDS was the song that dragged me into Dream Theater in the first place.

[Nihil-Morari]

No solos in the instrumental version of the CD included in the 3-disc collection?     What the...?  That was a mistake...

I haven't listened to the instrumental disc, but I guess I never will. I never understood why they included it...