Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions

[zmazar]

"A Nightmare to Remember," "The Best of Times" and "The Count of Tuscany" are some of their best songs of the 00s.

"A Nightmare to Remember" is a fantastic song, with a great mellow middle section, some cool vocal melodies, and some seriously badass playing by John Petrucci throughout.

"The Best of Times" manages to be beautiful, melancholy and wistful all at the same time, and without being cheesy at all.  JP's solo at the end is ridiculously great.

"The Count of Tuscany" is marvelous, despite the corny lyrics.  Great intro, and when it picks up right before the first vocals, that is one of the best riffs they have written in a long time.  Love, love, love the acoustic-driven vocal section near the end, and JLB's "woah"'s during the outro are just magnificent.

"Wither" is a wonderfully catchy song.

"A Rite of Passage" is good; good bridge and chorus.  I sometimes lose interest once the second chorus is over, as I think the extended instrumental section isn't overly memorable, but still, good song overall.

"The Shattered Fortress" is easily my least favorite.  I feel like too much of the song is taken from riffs and melodies from the previous AA songs (instead of it being a song with a few of them dotted here and there), and the new stuff isn't that great.  Not a bad song by any means.

Overall, 4/5 stars.  Not as great as the Big 3 (I&W, Awake, SFAM) or 6DOIT, but a massive upgrade over the previous three.  If it ages well, I could see it being my 5th favorite DT record (although comparing it to FII will be tough, as FII's highs are higher, but its lows are also lower).

I think this is a great, accurate summary.  I couldn't agree more about TSF.  It just is not as well done, or flow as good as the other songs on the album.  I felt like this is one of Jordan's best albums.  I also kind of get a SFAM kind of feel from a lot of the riffs.  It's so balanced, and I agree it's probably not AS good as their best albums..... but it's damn effing close. 

[emindead]

The Best of Time - Awful. Can't stand this song. Lyrics make me want to punch the CD.

Correction: that title goes to "The Count of Tuscany". Those are ridiculous. SUCKING ON HIS PIPE! DISTINGUISHED ACCENT!!!

[TioJorge]

An interesting thing I've noted: While the album was obviously produced by MP and JP, Paul Northfield has been credited, in addition to recording and mixing, as co-producing the vocal tracks. After all the discussion about getting an outside producer to help utilise JLB well, I found this pretty interesting.

I don't have my copy of SC on me, but is Northfield credited the same way on SC?

He is indeed credited with co-producing the vocals on SC. I didn't think they'd continue this trend on this album, however. Either way, he's done more than a decent job thus far, more so on this album.

[ariich]

Thanks for checking that for me TJ!

Yeah I find it interesting that people point to the vocals as an example of where DT could do with an outsider producer, which is what they have been doing for the last two albums now

Either way, I thought they did a good job with SC but a GREAT job with BC&SL. It might well help, as Kev has said, that JLB has had better melodies to work with, but whatever the reason, he sounds great throughout this album.

[zmazar]

I think the cheesy lyrics of TCoT is what makes it that much more awesome.

[emindead]

I think the cheesy lyrics of TCoT is what makes it that much more awesome.

SIG'D!

[bmc]

One of the best and tied with SFAM for my favorite (we will see if that changes in the future, might just be because its new)

[Progmetty]

I find it funny and ironic that TCOT was constantly ridiculed since the title was revealed, but is now getting such almost unanimous high praise now that people have actually heard it.

I honestly never saw the funny in the title, it was ridiculed as a cheap brand of internet comedy imo heh

[zmazar]

I think the cheesy lyrics of TCoT is what makes it that much more awesome.

SIG'D!

:O    Awesomeness!

[faemir]

I sure hope MP or JR (preferably MP with his whole input on the band) read the reactions to the album so far.

[skydivingninja]

I'm surprised ANTR is getting such high praises from most of the members.  It starts off as an awesome opener going into the mellow part (IMO one of DT's greatest moments) but then just sort of goes into ITPOE mode, meaning boring instrumental section after an amazing section that could've made the song an all-time classic.  Mike's growls don't fit at all with what the lyrics actually say, so its incredibly lolworthy (my roomate knows ANTR only because of Mike's growls).  Now I really just listen to the beginning until the mellow part ends.  What does everyone see in calling it one of the best tracks on the album?

[perfectchaos180]

I love the part where instead of an option of "I really didnt like it" you said "Never Enough" trying to make the people sound like unappreciative jerks for not liking it...

[InTheNameOfGod]

I'm surprised ANTR is getting such high praises from most of the members.  It starts off as an awesome opener going into the mellow part (IMO one of DT's greatest moments) but then just sort of goes into ITPOE mode, meaning boring instrumental section after an amazing section that could've made the song an all-time classic.  Mike's growls don't fit at all with what the lyrics actually say, so its incredibly lolworthy (my roomate knows ANTR only because of Mike's growls).  Now I really just listen to the beginning until the mellow part ends.  What does everyone see in calling it one of the best tracks on the album?

The drumming makes this song. There isn't a memorable solo from JP or JR, but it's proggy as hell.

I must admit, the clean section is some of the best DT have ever done, and I make the song as 2 minutes too long, but it's a great ride from start to finish. I've had BC&SL for a couple of months (yeah, I know) and trust me, this song grows on you.

4.5/5 for me.

[TL]

I've been listening to the album for a while now, but I must say it didn't age well. The lyrics still stick out terribly at times ("thank you for ... MY LIFE!", or "DID THEY EVER SEE THE RED LIGHT?! HWAAAAA!!"), and the music (which overall is better than on SC) can't make uo for it. A good effort, but a bit "DT paint by numbers".

rumborak

I don't think the growling part in ANTR is an issue of "not aging well". It was criticized pretty much as soon as people heard it.

What does everyone see in calling it one of the best tracks on the album?

As you yourself pointed out, the first 2/3 of the song is fucking awesome. Growls aside, the final third isn't bad either.
Also, there are only six songs on the album, and since they're at least pretty strong, all of them are going to get labeled as "one of the best tracks on the album" at some point.

[OsMosis2259]

Im lovin this album so far and i think it is their best since six degrees


SFAM
SDOIT
I&W
Awake
BC&SL
ToT
FII
SC
OCT
WDADU

[volwrath]

So far Ima liking it BUT I dont think there needs to be hating of SC to enjoy this album.  This is how I see it:

CoT = ITPOE1&2
ANtR < TMOLS
AROP < Forsaken (unlike others I really love forsaken)
Wither >> Repentance
Shattered Fortress = CM
BoT > the rest but barely as it hasnt grown on me yet. So yea this release is perhaps better than SC

I love all the covers too

[HarlequinForest]

I think it's about equal to Systematic Chaos, if not a little better, which would put it at #7, for me.  The only song I would consider one of their greats is TCoT.  Also, I feel this is their worst album with respect to Petrucci solos.

[ReaPsTA]

I think it's about equal to Systematic Chaos, if not a little better, which would put it at #7, for me.  The only song I would consider one of their greats is TCoT.  Also, I feel this is their worst album with respect to Petrucci solos.

Not Train of Thought or Six Degrees?

[hefdaddy42]

I feel this is their worst album with respect to Petrucci solos.

Are you serious?

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Oddly enough, Petrucci's solos are one of the album's highlights. Not a weak solo to be found.

[El Barto]

John Petrucci might be a helluva guitarist, but his judgment regarding who to get into a car with really sucks ass. 

[hefdaddy42]

I would just like to say that the use of piano and acoustic guitar in prodigious amounts on this album is a fantastic thing.

[Scurvy!Dreams]

It's a good Dream Theater album. As far as the JR albums go, I'd rank it 2nd behind SFAM right now, but we'll see how it ages. ANTR is the only song I'd bill as "too long" but the rest of the usual DT problems persist. I'd give it a B-.

I don't think so. While some of the lyrics are bad, the vocal melodies are mostly strong throughout. These songs weren't written to be instrumentals; I don't see how anyone could prefer them as such.

They're strong, but James still isn't being utilized that well. He sounds way better on Stargazer and the Queen medley than he does on anything here.

I know Mike didn't mean it but words like 'kindness' and 'courtesy' should never, ever be growled/toughened up vocally.

"Inventory" and "Analysis" definitely need that extra punch though.

[Perpetual Change]

I know Mike didn't mean it but words like 'kindness' and 'courtesy' should never, ever be growled/toughened up vocally.

"Inventory" and "Analysis" definitely need that extra punch though.

Instead of Mike growling, they should have just used Forever of the Stars to perform those parts.

[HarlequinForest]

I think it's about equal to Systematic Chaos, if not a little better, which would put it at #7, for me.  The only song I would consider one of their greats is TCoT.  Also, I feel this is their worst album with respect to Petrucci solos.

Not Train of Thought or Six Degrees?

Not Train of Thought, and certainly not Six Degrees.  Six degrees has three of my favorite solos on the first disc alone (The Glass Prison, Blind Faith, and The Great Debate).

Are you serious?

Quite.

Not a weak solo to be found.

I agree; however, I don't feel any of them are quite special, either, compared to his work on any previous album.  My favorites are The Shattered Fortress solo and the solo near the end of The Count of Tuscany, and even then, I feel there are at least three solos from SC alone that are better than either of those two.

[brakkum]

I feel this is their worst album with respect to Petrucci solos.

Are you serious?

wow.

[Blind_FaithX]

Yeah, talking about guitar solos of that album, I really feel like they put more emphasis on vocals this time and less on guitar. Such as bands as Pain of Salvation, they use the guitar solos as a complement to the vocals while they used to do the opposite.

That said, James LaBrie is top shape, so this little change was greatly done. Also, JP's solos, while less important, are indeed all flawless and great. Considering that, I think they got the change pretty well; I'm impressed.

[zmazar]

John Petrucci might be a helluva guitarist, but his judgment regarding who to get into a car with really sucks ass.  

That's sig worthy.

I think JP does an amazing job on this album.  I think this album is more about being diverse and adding subtle things to make a song more complete.  Not sure if that's a good way to describe it.

[BlobVanDam]

I know Mike didn't mean it but words like 'kindness' and 'courtesy' should never, ever be growled/toughened up vocally.

So true. I don't mind MP's vocals like that (similar style to TGP, so I'm ok with it), but hearing tough vocals saying KINDNESS makes me chuckle a bit.

[Jamariquay]

So, now that we've heard the album, how apt does MP's earlier comparison of the songs to TGP, PMU, ACOS, 8VM and LTL now seem? (Assuming, of course, he meant it literally, which may not be the case. But it's less fun to talk about that way )

A Rite Of Passage - Clearly the Pull Me Under song, albeit differently structured
The Shattered Fortress - Well, any song that reprises as much of The Glass Prison as this one does.... Really aren't too many other choices
The Best Of Times - Same kind of vibe as Learning To Live. A 4/4 Learning To Live, but has the same upbeat-ness to it. Which is awesome.
The Count Of Tuscany - I guess Octavarium
Wither - No idea, and probably a good defense for the argument that MP didn't mean to be taken literally. But nevermind that.
A Nightmare To Remember - If this song is meant to be A Change Of Seasons.... I dunno. It definitely explores quite a bit of sonic territory, but not nearly to the extent that ACOS does obviously. ANTR also repeats itself quite a bit, to the point where you can literally pinpoint where the recycling begins. I mean, I like the song, but I'd compare it to like, Lines In The Sand meets The Dark Eternal Night, if anything.

[SnakeEyes]

I'll start with this: I did not download the album or do anything illegal to hear it, but I have heard it.  Unfortunately, this will be the first DT album that I will be be purchasing.  I've listened to the songs multiple times just to be fair and I just can't get into them enough to justify spending money on it.  I'm sure I'm going to get "flamed" for saying this, but it's my opinion and that's the point of this thread.

As for the album, I think it's better than SC, but that wasn't difficult.  They couldn't have gotten any worse than that.  I really like that the music isn't ALL Metal, chugga-chugga cookie monster stuff.  I like the homages to their old style (Wither and The Best of Times, especially).  I like that JP is toning down the shred and playing more melodically again.  What I can't stand is the lyrics.  I've listened to the songs a bunch of times and I just can't relate to any of these songs.  They don't make me FEEL anything.  The lyrics feel cold and contrived and not very genuine.

Anyway, I applaud DT for paying tribute to their old sound a bit, but I just can't bring myself to buy this album.  It's just not good enough for me to listen to multiple times.  

[Jamariquay]

Unfortunately, this will be the first DT album that I will be be purchasing.

Oh good

[SnakeEyes]

I meant to say NOT purcashing and you know it, silly. 

[TL]

SnakeEyes, it's $9.99 on Amazon if you only want the standard edition. Is ten dollars really more than you're willing to pay for it?

Also, on another note, as I type this, BC&SL is the 4th best selling album on Amazon.com
Edit: Up to #3!

[chrisbDTM]

best album in a loooooong time. so freaking good. i was taken back at how awesome it was on the first listen. SC has nothing on it