The Journey Thread

[Peter Mc]

I would counter with 3 from Revelation.

https://youtu.be/-tD0BOA3KFM?list=OLAK5uy_k5a39FTlBs4t9NjFO02YKVWg-Q8UiShkk

https://youtu.be/iF0bpakv2so?list=OLAK5uy_k5a39FTlBs4t9NjFO02YKVWg-Q8UiShkk

https://youtu.be/OZr_1Lcqul8?list=OLAK5uy_k5a39FTlBs4t9NjFO02YKVWg-Q8UiShkk

[TAC]

[Peter Mc]

Have you heard his stuff since leaving Journey?

[Stadler]

King, that first song, "City Of Hope", is excellent; I haven't gotten to the second one yet.  The third is okay; it's clearly one of those songs that take a few listens.   That part when the band comes in, Arnold REALLY sounds like Steve. 

[bosk1]

I’m sure some day I’ll try out the post-Perry albums.

Post Perry, I’d say that first album with Augeri (Arrival) is excellent...

Agreed on Arrival.  Really, if you are inclined at all to check out post-Perry Journey, I highly recommend the Journey 2001 DVD.  I thought Agueri was really, really good in that show, and it's a great set where you get to hear a lot of the classic material, a few songs from Arrival (and, I think Red 13, but I may be misremembering), and a couple of rare deep cuts.  Really good show.

Man, I was kind of hoping some people wanted to talk about early Journey. 😛

I know for me, I can definitely appreciate the new stuff.  But I also don't listen to it often at all, so it's hard to comment.  But I will say that I was fortunate to see some of that early, rare material performed live.  I believe it was the Generations tour that they did a 30th anniversary "evening with" format with two sets.  The first set was dedicated to a lot of the early, rare material, with only a few hits thrown in, and it was REALLY cool.  On the instrumental, Augeri played a strat to add a second guitar part.  I don't recall the exact set, but it was either this or something close to it:  https://www.setlist.fm/stats/average-setlist/journey-3d6b507.html?tour=2bd6f406 (Any Way You Want It closed out the first set).  It was, without a doubt, my favorite Journey show.

If you got your feet wet with this band with the Time 3 box set, you've probably read through that big booklet that came with it, and you know all about the early years of the band, where it talked about Herbie Herbert taking them all over the place and just having the play constantly, whether it was clubs, parties, state fairs, or whatever.  Some interesting history to tie into that that is alluded to, but I don't recall being mentioned outright:  Herbert not only managed Journey in the early '70s, but he also signed Y&T in 1974.  For the next two years or so, Y&T and Journey were frequently paired up on those epics tours around the state, and then around the U.S.  Wherever Herbert could get them a gig, they would play.  In fact, if you flip through the Time 3 booklet, there is a photo of the promo poster for the legendary Winterland gig the two bands played together (with Y&T of course being then referred to as "Yesterday & Today").  Here's a short snippet from Dave Meniketti on that time period:

Gregg & I have known each other since 1974. We met as Y&T was being signed to Journey's management company "Spreadeagle Productions".
Since that signing, Journey & Y&T played almost exclusively together for the next few years, until the 2 managers in the firm parted their ways & took 1 band each, as they split. Journey went with Herbie Herbert & we were left with Lou Bramy (the 2 partners of Spreadeagle Prods).

Though we never really played together within a band, we certainly played plenty of gigs together & respected each other's talents.

Fast forward 27 years (whew!) & again, Greg & I are both managed by the same manager, Scott Boorey. Kinda spooky, eh?
Greg just happened to come over my house a few months ago & we re-aquainted ourselves. I like the guy quite a bit & can relate to him on a level that's almost like looking in a mirror.
We briefly discussed the idea of him playing organ on a few tracks for my next record & other possibilities. He's given me the big thumbs up on that & I suspect that we may do even more in the future.

Because we live 350+ miles away, it's not quite as easy as when he was living in the bay area, but that's not going to have any real effect on my next CD, or anything else.

Greg has a new CD ready to be released called "Roots" that is brilliant. When it becomes available, I encourage you to pick it up.
--Dave

There's actually a much longer version out there somewhere from Y&T's perspective, but I couldn't find it.

[King Postwhore]

I agree with bosk1 that the live DVD from 2001 is fantastic.

[HOF]

Bosk, I spent a ton of time with that Time 3 booklet back in the day, but don’t recall it mentioning the Y&T connection (I didn’t even realize Y&T dated that far back as a band!).

The thing that always struck me when reading about those early Journey records was just how young Neal Schon was. He was already a pro having worked with Santana at age 17 but was still just 19 when Journey was first assembled and 21 when the debut came out. You get a better sense for how young and somewhat raw (in a good way) he was on those first three albums, but also how much he grew by the time Infinity hit in ‘78 (still only 24!).

I know there is a criticism that Journey were a closely managed/manufactured band, and that definitely played a role in the development of the music, especially once Perry came on board. Still, I give Schon a ton of credit for his body of work as a guitarist even from such a young age.

[bosk1]

Bosk, I spent a ton of time with that Time 3 booklet back in the day, but don’t recall it mentioning the Y&T connection (I didn’t even realize Y&T dated that far back as a band!).

Yeah, like I said, I don't think the connection itself is expressly mentioned--only alluded to.  But for those that know the history of the two bands, what is told about Journey's early history sheds a lot of light on the history of both bands.  I was only 4-6 years old during that stretch in 1974-1976, so I obviously don't have first hand knowledge.  But having grown up in the backyard the two bands shared, I have heard a lot of things through the years.  And I've heard a lot of people through the years talk about how, during that time period, it felt like you could find a Y&T/Journey show on any given weekend, just depending on how far you wanted to drive. 

By the way, here's a link to the image of that Winterland gig poster from 11/22/75:  https://www.limitedruns.com/original/music-posters/rock/journey-concert-poster/

You will probably recognize it now from the booklet.

The thing that always struck me when reading about those early Journey records was just how young Neal Schon was. He was already a pro having worked with Santana at age 17 but was still just 19 when Journey was first assembled and 21 when the debut came out. You get a better sense for how young and somewhat raw (in a good way) he was on those first three albums, but also how much he grew by the time Infinity hit in ‘78 (still only 24!).

Oh, for sure.  All of that.  I think that, because of the music Journey was putting out in the '80s, it seemed odd for Schon to appear on Stars with all those hard rock guitar players, like Smith/Murray, Vivian Campbell, Yngwie, and such.  But those in the industry have always respected what a beast he is, even if there was a period where some fans forgot and thought he was just a pop guitar player.  Until Metallica eventually showed up on the scene, Schon, Meniketti, and Hagar were THE Bay Area rock guitar icons.

I know there is a criticism that Journey were a closely managed/manufactured band

Well, they kinda were.  And that's perfectly fine, actually.  I mean, both the songwriting and the musical ability were always there, so I think the band never lacked for musical integrity, as can often happen in that type of scenario.

[TAC]

By the way, here's a link to the image of that Winterland gig poster from 11/22/75:  https://www.limitedruns.com/original/music-posters/rock/journey-concert-poster/

Wow! That's fantastic. I love that kind of thing.

[bosk1]

By the way, here's a link to the image of that Winterland gig poster from 11/22/75:  https://www.limitedruns.com/original/music-posters/rock/journey-concert-poster/

Wow! That's fantastic. I love that kind of thing.

Well, then here's some trivia on the Winterland Ballroom:  https://rockandrollroadmap.com/places/where-they-played/san-francisco-area-venues/the-winterland-ballroom-the-last-waltz/  (surprising that Journey isn't mentioned in that article, since they were somewhat regulars)

[TAC]

Cool.

I love music history, especially in the Boston area in the 70's. I've spent a lot of time looking at old tour dates and such.

Cool!

[HOF]

Oh, for sure.  All of that.  I think that, because of the music Journey was putting out in the '80s, it seemed odd for Schon to appear on Stars with all those hard rock guitar players, like Smith/Murray, Vivian Campbell, Yngwie, and such.  But those in the industry have always respected what a beast he is, even if there was a period where some fans forgot and thought he was just a pop guitar player.  Until Metallica eventually showed up on the scene, Schon, Meniketti, and Hagar were THE Bay Area rock guitar icons.

I know there is a criticism that Journey were a closely managed/manufactured band

Well, they kinda were.  And that's perfectly fine, actually.  I mean, both the songwriting and the musical ability were always there, so I think the band never lacked for musical integrity, as can often happen in that type of scenario.

As far as Schon hanging with heavy hitters, a lot of Frontiers is really heavy. Edge of the Blade is a great example of Schon just shredding away.

I also don’t have any problem with Journey being somewhat manufactured. They played/sang the crap out of the music, and just because the label/producer/manager guided the style and production doesn’t make it any less great. And it’s not as if Perry, Schon, Rolie, and Cain weren’t still the primary writers.

[Kwyjibo]

Schon was never a heavy metal guitarist but through all phases of Journey you could hear that he was a veritable rocker.

[Stadler]

I look at that Winterland picture (and I'm thinking of the cover of one of the Japanese Quiet Riot records) and I cannot fathom having a waist that thin.  Even when I was in peak physical condition - probably my senior year of high school/freshman in college - I never looked like that.

[Zook]

I bought Eclipse based off the recommendations here. City of Hope was a good song, and if I don't like the rest, it's ok because I only paid a dollar at Walmart lol

[HOF]

I bought Eclipse based off the recommendations here. City of Hope was a good song, and if I don't like the rest, it's ok because I only paid a dollar at Walmart lol

Heh, the only reason I own it is because I saw it at Walmart for super cheap and bought it on a whim.

[Stadler]

Schon was never a heavy metal guitarist but through all phases of Journey you could hear that he was a veritable rocker.

The Hagar/Schon record has it's heavy moments.

[Kwyjibo]

You mean HSAS or Soul SirkUS that started with Hagar and ended with Jeff Scott Soto?

Sure, Schon can play heavy, but I think in his heart he's a rocker, that can play in many different styles.

Somewhere above Smith/Murray, Yngwie and other hard rock/metal players are mentioned and that's not what Schon is about imo. Those comparisons just don't make sense to me.

[Stadler]

You mean HSAS or Soul SirkUS that started with Hagar and ended with Jeff Scott Soto?

Sure, Schon can play heavy, but I think in his heart he's a rocker, that can play in many different styles.

Somewhere above Smith/Murray, Yngwie and other hard rock/metal players are mentioned and that's not what Schon is about imo. Those comparisons just don't make sense to me.

I was referring to the HSAS, but there is Soul SirkUS, and the precursor Planet US (Hagar, Schon, I think Mike Anthony and Deen Castronovo).  I think a couple Planet US tunes ended up on Sammy solo records (Cosmic whatever it is, and the "and Friends" disks).

[bosk1]

Somewhere above Smith/Murray, Yngwie and other hard rock/metal players are mentioned and that's not what Schon is about imo.

I wasn't just pulling a comparison out of my hat.  I was referring to a specific session where he DID play with those players, and I pointed out that it may have seemed out of place, but that he actually was able to fit right in and hold his own, and is featured pretty prominently in the song. 

(actual song here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5H94GHb-10)

[Kwyjibo]

Okay, I misunderstood that and confess I haven't heard of that project. Now it makes more sense.

What baffles me is that some people (not here) could think less of Schon as a guitar player just because he's in a mainstream rock band.

[bosk1]

No worries.  I still love that documentary.  It's such a fun watch, even if the song itself is incredibly dated.

[KevShmev]

I don't have it in me to listen to an entire post-Steve Perry Journey album, but give me 2-3 songs from Eclipse to check out and I will do so.

https://youtu.be/IN8FB5YXUfk

https://youtu.be/pJG3wQtdkpg

https://youtu.be/G6fNN27Fx4g

Thanks!

City of Hope was okay.

Tantra and Edge of the Moment were both good tunes. Might be worth getting for a buck each at iTunes.

[devieira73]

https://www.loudersound.com/news/journey-sack-steve-smith-and-ross-valory
It’s sad. Unfortunately Journey doesn’t seem a true band anymore, just business.

[HOF]

That’s sad, but in the long winding history of Journey feuds and lineup changes, I suppose it’s not all that surprising. I was under the impression that Schon and Cain weren’t on good terms anymore anyway due to the stuff with Trump and Neal touring the Journey Through Time thing.

[T-ski]

what a mess.  at some point you have to say we've done enough, lets just end this.

[Architeuthis]

I wonder if they are cancelling their scheduled tour this year with The Pretenders?  I'm sure they can find a new bass player and drummer. Makes me wonder if Neal will get Dean Castronovo back on drums.  I'm sure there's plenty of options.

[HOF]

They should call up Randy Jackson to play bass.

[Architeuthis]

They should call up Randy Jackson to play bass.

That's actually not a bad idea.

[T-ski]

Maybe give Perry a call too.

[Samsara]

This is all about the end coming close, and Schon and Cain looking to fire guys they pay a lot of money to, and replacing them with cheaper guys, who actually will make the band better. And by that I mean - welcome back Deen Castronovo on drums, and Marco Mendoza on bass.

Deen is the best Journey singer outside of Steve Perry, and anyone who has seen him, knows that. But he doesn't want to be a frontman. So he'll spell Arnel on a few of the tougher songs, singing them from behind the drum kit. Both Deen and Marco will come cheaper, and Schon and Cain will make more money, and the band will sound better (and no disrespect at all on my end toward Steve Smith and Ross Valory -- I love those guys and they are getting the shaft, but Deen and Marco are better players, and Deen is a phenomenal tenor singer).

[Architeuthis]

Steve Smith is a phenomenal drummer in his own right.  Even Neil Peart was a big fan and spoke highly of him.
Deen Castronovo is a beast on drums, but he's not any better than Steve Smith except what he can bring to the table vocally.

[emtee]

Yes, Steve is an elite level drummer. Highly capable in many genres, including jazz.

I'm surprised Schon and Cain can agree on anything including a lawsuit. They
don't like each other at all.

[Setlist Scotty]

Three sides to every story, and this is only the first one. While I know we'll never hear the third (the truth), it will be interesting to hear the other side of the story. As some of you have implied, I cannot imagine that Ross and especially Steve would be so stupid to try to perform some sort of "corporate coup d'état".

If it is, as suggest, that Neal and Jon are just kicking them to the curb to hire cheaper replacements, shame on them. They did it once back in the mid-80s and how did that go over? The band folded after the following album and tour. Granted, that was primarily due to Perry, but I still think something was missing when those guys were replaced.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out legally and otherwise...

[bosk1]

I'm surprised Schon and Cain can agree on anything including a lawsuit. They
don't like each other at all.

While that may be true, but are both smart enough to recognize that they make a LOT more money together than apart.