How to Kill a Human Being

[73109]

This is a great documentary on capital punishment and it raises a few great discussion topics other than "should we have capital punishment?"

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kill-human-being/

It is rather long for someone who just is sitting at their computer, but I found it very interesting.

The entire thing seems to raise the question of the morality of, not the act as a whole, but the commiting of the act. Should the punishment for the criminals be as painful as the way they killed their victims, or should the murder be as humane as possible. I personally agree with the second option, being against the death penalty in the first place. Anyways, interesting documentary.

[rumborak]

I also heard the other day that the company that produced the main component for the lethal injection (a Dutch company IIRC) stopped producing it, and executioners have started using a component that has been banned for use in animals because it was considered too cruel to use ethically.
They had this guy call in (I think some governor from the South) who was suggesting to have firing squads, with the first shot being shot by a relative of a victim. I was speechless listening to it.

rumborak

[Adami]

I also heard the other day that the company that produced the main component for the lethal injection (a Dutch company IIRC) stopped producing it, and executioners have started using a component that has been banned for use in animals because it was considered too cruel to use ethically.
They had this guy call in (I think some governor from the South) who was suggesting to have firing squads, with the first shot being shot by a relative of a victim. I was speechless listening to it.

rumborak

Yea, aside from the craziness of that idea, I don't think the victim or their loved ones should have any say in punishment at all.

[El Barto]

I also heard the other day that the company that produced the main component for the lethal injection (a Dutch company IIRC) stopped producing it, and executioners have started using a component that has been banned for use in animals because it was considered too cruel to use ethically.
They had this guy call in (I think some governor from the South) who was suggesting to have firing squads, with the first shot being shot by a relative of a victim. I was speechless listening to it.

rumborak

They started using a substitute for sodium thiapentol recently, possibly phenobarbitol, but I believe it's supposed to be an improvement.  It's actually what vets actually use to put down animals.  The controversy is in the method of using it as the first of three drugs.  It's really only used to sedate the prisoner so he doesn't flip-flop all over the place because of the next two and upset the audience.  I know that at least one state has started using one massive dose of the tranquilizer without the next two drugs, which should be a much more humane way of going about it.

While I'm not a fan of capital punishment, I'm not sure that having relatives of the victims being involved is such a bad idea.  They certainly have more of a claim than the state does.   

[Rathma]

Yea, aside from the craziness of that idea, I don't think the victim or their loved ones should have any say in punishment at all.

Agreed. They shouldn't even be allowed to watch imo.

[Adami]

I also heard the other day that the company that produced the main component for the lethal injection (a Dutch company IIRC) stopped producing it, and executioners have started using a component that has been banned for use in animals because it was considered too cruel to use ethically.
They had this guy call in (I think some governor from the South) who was suggesting to have firing squads, with the first shot being shot by a relative of a victim. I was speechless listening to it.

rumborak

They started using a substitute for sodium thiapentol recently, possibly phenobarbitol, but I believe it's supposed to be an improvement.  It's actually what vets actually use to put down animals.  The controversy is in the method of using it as the first of three drugs.  It's really only used to sedate the prisoner so he doesn't flip-flop all over the place because of the next two and upset the audience.  I know that at least one state has started using one massive dose of the tranquilizer without the next two drugs, which should be a much more humane way of going about it.

While I'm not a fan of capital punishment, I'm not sure that having relatives of the victims being involved is such a bad idea.  They certainly have more of a claim than the state does.   

They have an emotional claim. And justice is reason free from passion.

[73109]

^^^^

I agree completely. No matter what the person, everyone deserves a minimal amount of respect, and having a relatives go apeshit all over a dude is most certainly not giving that dude his respect, murderer or not.

If you watched the documentary, they were talking about how lethal injection is 3 different injections. One to knock you out, one to relax the muscles, and one to stop the heart. The problem that is coming up is that a woman was going to the doctor for a routine eye surgery and she needed the 2nd injection for it. Apparently, the doctors screwed up with the anesthetic and she was awake and paralyzed when they injected it into her, and it was insanely painful. She believes that anybody going through the lethal injection process goes through this because the anesthetic is meant to only last 5 minutes, while the average lethal injection takes about 12. So, she feels that most if not all of the criminals had to go through what she did, and she doesn't feel it is right, nor do I.

[zerogravityfat]

i think an old fashioned hanging is the best way to go, we have the materials to ensure a clean death with that.

[73109]

Thing is, we don't. All in the documentary, my friend.

[El Barto]

Yeah, I believe that even in a successful long drop, the prisoner still dies of asphyxiation.  Breaking the neck renders him unconscious, but there's no telling just how unconscious he is. 

Honestly, the single drug protocol seems like the best method.  Junkies will tell you that OD'ing is a pretty damned pleasant way to go.  Barring that, the Chinese probably have the best method (although they're switching to lethal injection, as well). 

[TheVoxyn]

the company that produced the main component for the lethal injection (a Dutch company IIRC)

The Dutch, earning money at the cost of other peoples lives since spreading slavery  .

[Adami]

the company that produced the main component for the lethal injection (a Dutch company IIRC)

The Dutch, earning money at the cost of other peoples lives since spreading slavery  .

Sharon Den Adel, Anekke Van Giersburgen, Floor Jansen, Simone Simmons. Those names along exonerate any wrong doings your people may have done.

[j]

 

-J

[millahh]

It was very interesting how the reactions went when Hospira stopped manufacturing the drug.  The right-wingers got all upset about it, but what they didn't realize is that the free market was actually rendering it's verdict on the death penalty...

[Chino]

Can I ask why we make the actual process of killing the person so complex? I don't understand why a bullet to the head does not suffice. It's quick, painless, and cheap.

[73109]

Serious blue?

But anyway, we don't do that for a 2 reasons that I can see.

1) Lack of respect for the dude.
2) Not 100% effective

[Chino]

Serious blue?

But anyway, we don't do that for a 2 reasons that I can see.

1) Lack of respect for the dude.
2) Not 100% effective

It's less disrespectful than getting strapped to a table and forced to think under paralysis for ten minutes, and a desert eagle from 5 feet will always be 100% effective.

[Genowyn]

The reason is that the execution process is designed to go easy on the witnesses and the executioner, not the criminal and the taxpayers.

[73109]

The reason is that the execution process is designed to go easy on the witnesses and the executioner, not the criminal and the taxpayers.

Pretty much. Not to mention the fact that blowing someone's brain out still sucks. I say they go with what is in the documentary. 15 seconds of gas, all the while you feel happy and euphoric, you pass out, then nothing.

[millahh]

Lethal injection lets us avoid confronting the brutality/reality of killing someone by dressing it up as a medical procedure.

[73109]

Not even done by doctors...

[El Barto]

The reason is that the execution process is designed to go easy on the witnesses and the executioner, not the criminal and the taxpayers.

Pretty much. Not to mention the fact that blowing someone's brain out still sucks. I say they go with what is in the documentary. 15 seconds of gas, all the while you feel happy and euphoric, you pass out, then nothing.

Which gas?  I've got the doc on a hard drive somewhere, but haven't been in the mindset to watch it. 

I seem to recall that our foray into gassing people was fairly barbaric.

[73109]

Yes it was, but this is different. In all honestly, I don't remember the name of the gas, but what it does is cuts off oxygen in the blood flow. What this does is, while still cycling blood to the brain, it deprives the brain of oxygen, thus giving off a euphoric feeling. The person's last moments are happy and without pain or suffering. In the documentary, this dude went into a chamber where it felt like the altitudes were like they were in space. He got giddy for a while and then kinda just say there chilling. They told him to put on his mask but he didn't give a shit. Another 30 seconds and he would've died. Then, some doctor in India started using a gas that gave off this same feeling to painlessly kill livestock. 

I'll go try to find the chunk of the documentary that shows this, just so you don't have to watch the whole thing.

edit: Watch from minute 37 to the end. Only 12 minutes then. BTW, just you get what your watching, when oxygen does not get to the brain, the process is called hypoxia. The only time we used hypoxia in capital punishment is when we used cyanide pellets to kill people, and yes, it was barbaric.

[Zook]

So why do murderers, child molesters and the like deserve our respect when being put to death?

[73109]

Because everyone know matter what their actions deserves respect. If they are being put to death for their crimes against humanity, the least we can do as a "civilized" society is to make sure they don't feel anything when we "rid the world" of their "kind."

[Adami]

So why do murderers, child molesters and the like deserve our respect when being put to death?

Because we are not beneath them.

[73109]

You just took what I said and made it 10x better, in like 30 fewer words.

[Zook]

I don't think respect is the right word, and I don't think we're beneath the sick twisted individual who kills for fun by ridding such a monster from this world.

[Adami]

I don't think respect is the right word, and I don't think we're beneath the sick twisted individual who kills for fun by ridding such a monster from this world.

I believe that history has shown that human beings lack the ability to actually do what you want without overwhelming consequences.

[Zook]

You lost me.

[Adami]

You lost me.

You're creating standards by which we deem someone to be less than human and thus open to any form of treatment we wish on them. Lots of people have done that in history, it never works. You believe your standards are ideal and absolute, as did everyone else who did the same thing.

[73109]

I don't think respect is the right word, and I don't think we're beneath the sick twisted individual who kills for fun by ridding such a monster from this world.

Well, let's pretend that ridding the world of this monster is the best thing to do in the first place, do you think that that monster should suffer for what he did or is not being around enough?

[Adami]

By the way, my idea of justice is removal of harm. I'm not above killing certain people, but if they're kept away from people already (in jail) then killing them serves no purpose in the slightest.

[Zook]

Ok, say I just slaughtered a bunch of children and laughed the whole time while doing it. I even filmed the whole thing and tortured some of them. Are you seriously going to give two shits whether I feel pain while receiving a lethal injection?

[Adami]

Ok, say I just slaughtered a bunch of children and laughed the whole time while doing it. I even filmed the whole thing and tortured some of them. Are you seriously going to give two shits whether I feel pain while receiving a lethal injection?

Yes. Passion obstructs justice.