Author Topic: Atheism Saved My Life  (Read 23044 times)

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Offline ClairvoyantCat

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #140 on: May 18, 2011, 05:21:30 AM »
The part of Pascal's wager where he unintentionally gets it right is the fact their are Kingdom principals which one can tap into unknowingly and yet still reap the rewards.
Its like the law of gravity. Whether or not you believe in it is irrelevant because if you walk off a talk building you will plummet downward. Unbelief in this law makes zero difference.

What?

Yeah, when you can, I'd love to see this explained..

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #141 on: May 18, 2011, 05:57:32 AM »
The part of Pascal's wager where he unintentionally gets it right is the fact their are Kingdom principals which one can tap into unknowingly and yet still reap the rewards.
Its like the law of gravity. Whether or not you believe in it is irrelevant because if you walk off a talk building you will plummet downward. Unbelief in this law makes zero difference.

What?

Yeah, when you can, I'd love to see this explained..
The short answer is , their are spiritual laws just as their are physical laws which produce results as absolute as any physical law. Even if you are unknowingly following these laws. An example would be having the integrity to do the right thing for your customers as a business owner, you can reap the rewards of these laws whether your a believer or not. It basically means Gods precepts being tapped into by anyone will produce the same results. Much as going in the opposite direction and living a life of sin will produce sickness, and your eventual demise. Hence the wages of sin are death(probably before the intended time)
If you consider what I'm saying bunk, that's fine, but their on studies on Gods Kingdom Principles that explain its precepts. I don't want to bring this thread down an entirely different path.
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Offline millahh

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #142 on: May 18, 2011, 06:09:36 AM »
The part of Pascal's wager where he unintentionally gets it right is the fact their are Kingdom principals which one can tap into unknowingly and yet still reap the rewards.
Its like the law of gravity. Whether or not you believe in it is irrelevant because if you walk off a talk building you will plummet downward. Unbelief in this law makes zero difference.

What?

Yeah, when you can, I'd love to see this explained..
The short answer is , their are spiritual laws just as their are physical laws which produce results as absolute as any physical law. Even if you are unknowingly following these laws. An example would be having the integrity to do the right thing for your customers as a business owner, you can reap the rewards of these laws whether your a believer or not. It basically means Gods precepts being tapped into by anyone will produce the same results. Much as going in the opposite direction and living a life of sin will produce sickness, and your eventual demise. Hence the wages of sin are death(probably before the intended time)
If you consider what I'm saying bunk, that's fine, but their on studies on Gods Kingdom Principles that explain its precepts. I don't want to bring this thread down an entirely different path.

So you're saying that God will reward those who lead a good virtuous life, even if they didn't believe for whatever reason?  Not agreeing or disagreeing, just clarifying.

Now regarding the "life of sin" bit....sin is in the eye of the beholder in many cases.  Violations of natural law are pretty clear (murder, rape, child abuse, habitual theft etc.).  But other things that are considered sinful by many Christians (premarital or homosexual sex, for example) are not an issue for others, and certainly aren't violations of natural law.  How do things like that fall into this view?
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Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #143 on: May 18, 2011, 06:33:57 AM »
The part of Pascal's wager where he unintentionally gets it right is the fact their are Kingdom principals which one can tap into unknowingly and yet still reap the rewards.
Its like the law of gravity. Whether or not you believe in it is irrelevant because if you walk off a talk building you will plummet downward. Unbelief in this law makes zero difference.

What?

Yeah, when you can, I'd love to see this explained..
The short answer is , their are spiritual laws just as their are physical laws which produce results as absolute as any physical law. Even if you are unknowingly following these laws. An example would be having the integrity to do the right thing for your customers as a business owner, you can reap the rewards of these laws whether your a believer or not. It basically means Gods precepts being tapped into by anyone will produce the same results. Much as going in the opposite direction and living a life of sin will produce sickness, and your eventual demise. Hence the wages of sin are death(probably before the intended time)
If you consider what I'm saying bunk, that's fine, but their on studies on Gods Kingdom Principles that explain its precepts. I don't want to bring this thread down an entirely different path.

So you're saying that God will reward those who lead a good virtuous life, even if they didn't believe for whatever reason?  Not agreeing or disagreeing, just clarifying.

Now regarding the "life of sin" bit....sin is in the eye of the beholder in many cases.  Violations of natural law are pretty clear (murder, rape, child abuse, habitual theft etc.).  But other things that are considered sinful by many Christians (premarital or homosexual sex, for example) are not an issue for others, and certainly aren't violations of natural law.  How do things like that fall into this view?
On point A.
Yes, their are spiritual laws that are absolutes. If you see it as God rewarding you, that would be your perspective. I can see how you would.

On point B.
Its not for me to define what will or will not lead to destruction or early exit. Some roads traveled lead to an obvious result. Its not all about rape, murder, drugs, etc.
A life filled with the sin or bitterness or resentment will produce bad results. I have seen examples of this. I have had relatives who are bitter angry people and as they have aged, they look and feel awful. Very sickly people. I have seen others who have produced much fruit in there lives who are the complete opposite. Then their are those who wind up in situations I can not comprehend and don't have answers for. Sometimes bad things happen to seemingly good people. I am not judge and jury for these things. Gods word is real to some, and bunk to others. I personally see examples of its truths in many ways all around me.
I truly believe we reap what we sow, but that's just me.  

I will also add, just because someone taps into Gods spiritual laws on this earth and prospers does not give them eternal life so they may have it good now, but eternity is another story.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2011, 09:00:59 PM »
I'm sorry tick, you're gonna have to clarify better. What you're saying makes no sense, and I'm a Philosophy/Religious Studies major who has intense interest in this stuff.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #145 on: May 19, 2011, 05:54:48 AM »
I'm sorry tick, you're gonna have to clarify better. What you're saying makes no sense, and I'm a Philosophy/Religious Studies major who has intense interest in this stuff.
It makes no sense to you maybe. It makes perfect sense to me, so I'm not going to explain it further.  I'll leave it for you to ponder, being a philosopher and all.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #146 on: May 19, 2011, 07:42:12 PM »
For what it's worth, tick, I also have no idea what you're getting at here.

Offline ZBomber

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #147 on: May 19, 2011, 07:53:47 PM »
Yeah, I've read that post a few times and I am still baffled.

Offline ClairvoyantCat

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #148 on: May 19, 2011, 08:46:52 PM »
Yeah, I've read that post a few times and I am still baffled.

Don't worry, it makes perfect sense to him



Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #149 on: May 20, 2011, 05:44:31 AM »
CC, you certainly do your best to disrespect me as much as possible don't you? Am I that bad a person that you feel the need to always try and tear me and anything I say down? I don't quite get it?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 06:31:58 AM by tick »
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Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #150 on: May 20, 2011, 05:53:10 AM »
For what it's worth, tick, I also have no idea what you're getting at here.
My point was the wages of sin lead to death. and that sin isn't necessarily rape or murder. It can be unforgiveness in your heart that leads to bad health and other things.
As far as spiritual laws. I was saying they are real and absolutes just as physical laws are. Any further explanation you may want can not be given because this is the best I can do for you. Thanks.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #151 on: May 20, 2011, 06:02:18 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #152 on: May 20, 2011, 06:29:12 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #153 on: May 20, 2011, 07:11:26 AM »
Well, this awesome thread was turned to shit.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #154 on: May 20, 2011, 07:54:42 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #155 on: May 20, 2011, 08:17:27 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #156 on: May 20, 2011, 08:23:22 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.


problem with that is it is "fake belief." The God of the OT and NT wants us to love Him, not merely act or think our way to Heaven.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #157 on: May 20, 2011, 08:26:34 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.


problem with that is it is "fake belief." The God of the OT and NT wants us to love Him, not merely act or think our way to Heaven.
Exactly.
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #158 on: May 20, 2011, 08:51:30 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.


problem with that is it is "fake belief." The God of the OT and NT wants us to love Him, not merely act or think our way to Heaven.
Exactly.

So you can't force yourself to love someone.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #159 on: May 20, 2011, 09:03:56 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.


problem with that is it is "fake belief." The God of the OT and NT wants us to love Him, not merely act or think our way to Heaven.
Exactly.

So you can't force yourself to love someone.
No. Love is a choice. Freewill.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #160 on: May 20, 2011, 09:13:31 AM »
opening yourself to love/faith is a choice, not actually experiening it imo

Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #161 on: May 20, 2011, 09:33:11 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.


problem with that is it is "fake belief." The God of the OT and NT wants us to love Him, not merely act or think our way to Heaven.
Exactly.

So you can't force yourself to love someone.
No. Love is a choice. Freewill.

So you would have people who don't believe in your god or a version of your god feign belief and deluding themselves into loving your god?

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #162 on: May 20, 2011, 09:45:54 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

But you could try and explain it better so even those who disagree with you (PC's response is pretty much what I could get out of it as well, because it was very difficult for me to make heads or tails of your post) at least understand where you're coming from and understand your argument better.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #163 on: May 20, 2011, 10:24:46 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

I am a believer. I just don't get this, or Pascal's Wager, or, frankly, a lot of things I'm told I need to believe in addition to my core faith.
I had never heard of Pascal's Wager before this thread. From what I gathered his belief is a good life is probably your ticket to heaven so live as if God was real. We are not saved by works.


problem with that is it is "fake belief." The God of the OT and NT wants us to love Him, not merely act or think our way to Heaven.
Exactly.

So you can't force yourself to love someone.
No. Love is a choice. Freewill.

So you would have people who don't believe in your god or a version of your god feign belief and deluding themselves into loving your god?
I'm not telling you to do anything?
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Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #164 on: May 20, 2011, 10:26:09 AM »
I'm not really sure what Spiritual Laws are, but if they're God's laws than that kinda seems circular. God exists. Why? Because laws said to be God's say he exists!
Spiritual laws are not the same as the 10 commandments or anything like that. I really don't want to go deep into something that will not be received no matter how I would try to explain it. I don't have the time or energy, and plainly put, I don't care to go there. If your not a believer I can't make you one and I will not try. You asked me to explain what I wrote and I tried as best I can. The way you feel about it is your choice.

But you could try and explain it better so even those who disagree with you (PC's response is pretty much what I could get out of it as well, because it was very difficult for me to make heads or tails of your post) at least understand where you're coming from and understand your argument better.
Sorry, I can't.
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #165 on: May 20, 2011, 10:30:30 AM »
I'm not telling you to do anything?

No you not telling me to do anything and I didn't say you were; you're just stating what has to be done. Problem is, it is self delusion. See I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling what you are saying.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #166 on: May 20, 2011, 10:35:15 AM »
I'm not telling you to do anything?

No you not telling me to do anything and I didn't say you were; you're just stating what has to be done. Problem is, it is self delusion. See I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling what you are saying.
That's cool. I'm delusional. I have no problem with that. Peace.
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #167 on: May 20, 2011, 10:42:58 AM »
I'm not telling you to do anything?

No you not telling me to do anything and I didn't say you were; you're just stating what has to be done. Problem is, it is self delusion. See I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling what you are saying.
That's cool. I'm delusional. I have no problem with that. Peace.

Huh? Interesting... At no point did I call him delusional, I merely stated that he was expecting others to delude themselves. If one does not believe in god and cannot rationalize believing in a god yet makes them self "believe/love", they are delusional.

It's funny how your posts are cryptic and you don't understand what others are talking about. No wonder you believe these spiritual laws.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #168 on: May 20, 2011, 10:56:31 AM »
I'm not telling you to do anything?

No you not telling me to do anything and I didn't say you were; you're just stating what has to be done. Problem is, it is self delusion. See I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling what you are saying.
That's cool. I'm delusional. I have no problem with that. Peace.

Huh? Interesting... At no point did I call him delusional, I merely stated that he was expecting others to delude themselves. If one does not believe in god and cannot rationalize believing in a god yet makes them self "believe/love", they are delusional.

It's funny how your posts are cryptic and you don't understand what others are talking about. No wonder you believe these spiritual laws.
Where did I say you called me delusional? I did not.
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #169 on: May 20, 2011, 11:01:14 AM »
I'm not telling you to do anything?

No you not telling me to do anything and I didn't say you were; you're just stating what has to be done. Problem is, it is self delusion. See I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling what you are saying.
That's cool. I'm delusional. I have no problem with that. Peace.

This implies it very strongly.

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #170 on: May 20, 2011, 11:17:24 AM »
Ok, because people want clarity, on my posts. I will give you this.

(Ver 1.3)  I use to like to study natural and physical laws found in science when I went to school.  We are surrounded by these natural laws, dominated by these laws and are completely dependent upon them for our continuing existence on this planet.  After studying the Bible for many years, I have realized that God created natural things as patterns for things that are found in the spiritual realm.  Every day we get up and get out of bed and never think about most of these natural laws that rule our lives.  Yet they are affecting what we do and the results that we have regardless of whether we are thinking of them or not.  The laws of motion, the laws of gravity, the laws of thermodynamics and the laws of aerodynamics are just a few of these scientific systems that we depend upon.  God created these natural systems so that we could depend upon and have confidence in them every day by faith.  You may or may not understand how these laws that I just gave you work, but yet you can believe in them and use them to your advantage or your harm depending on what you desire to happen.  For example, if you want to go to California from New York, the law of aerodynamics can help your pilot override the laws of gravity and help you to get you there in a matter of a couple of hours or so by plane.  This is just a small example of how natural laws help us in our everyday lives.

Introduction to Spiritual Laws

Just as there are natural and physical laws that rule and control our outcomes, there are also spiritual laws that control our eternal destiny.   God is a highly organized being of supreme intelligence.  Any organization in order to be organized requires structure and laws and so it is in God’s spiritual Kingdom.  God operates under a set of strict spiritual laws that I would say most Christians do not understand.  Religious minded people like to think that God is omnipotent and that means He can do whatever He wants to, whenever He wants to, to whoever He wants to.  I have no doubt that God is powerful enough and has the capability to do exactly that, however, by reading God’s Word we can discover that God has imposed limitations and constraints upon himself by His own design.  God has transferred spiritual ability, freewill, decision making capabilities, reasoning, thought processes and even authority to the human race.

Spiritual Law 1: The Law of Faith

In order to understand spiritual laws, you must first start by recognizing that there are spiritual laws.  You cannot start to learn about what you do not know, until you learn that these laws exist and then how these spiritual laws govern the things that occur in our world.  Here is a Bible verse that gives us just one spiritual law found in the Bible:

    Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

God informs us of many of the spiritual laws found in the Bible, but you have to look for them.  This verse tells us that “faith” is a spiritual law.  We can understand that faith is the ability of man to believe something that cannot be confirmed with our natural senses.  For example, to have “faith” in an unseen God.  You have never seen God, but yet believe that He exists.  That is Bible faith!  Faith is the belief of something that cannot be proven in the natural realm.  If you could prove this thing existed, it wouldn’t be faith.  The world likes to say “seeing is believing” but that is not Bible faith and that is not a true statement.  If you can see something you know it exists and you do not have to believe anything.  To know something is true is much different than to believe something is true.  If someone came to me and told me that they saw a man walk on the lake barefooted.  I would have to either choose to believe what they said or you would have to reject what they said, since I did not see it with my own two eyes.  If I chose to believe it, that is putting faith in that person and what they said.

So faith is a spiritual law designed by God to teach us a principle that God thought was very important for us to know.  When Jesus walked the face of the earth, if you were one of those that knew Him, you could see that He appeared to be no different than any other man.  He ate, he slept and he did all of the things that you and I do.  So how did Peter when asked by Jesus “who am I”, know that He was the Son of God?  It had to be by faith.  Sure Peter could see everything that He did and how that Jesus healed the sick and even raised the dead, but that still did not prove that He was God.  Did you ever think about the fact that Judas saw the same things that Peter did and yet turned Jesus into the soldiers to be killed.  How could both men see things so differently, who had witnessed everything that they did?  One chose to believe and the other did not!  Therefore, the law of faith worked for Peter but, Judas chose not to use it.

Spiritual Law 2:  Sin and Death vs. Spirit and Life

    Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Here is another verse found in the Bible that speaks of two spiritual laws that are diametrically opposed to each other.  You might think of these like the laws of aerodynamics vs. the laws of gravity.  The laws of aerodynamics overrule the laws of gravity and thus allows men to fly in airplanes.  Well according to this verse, the spiritual law of Life in Christ Jesus has super ceded the law of sin and death.   These are two scientific principles based upon the natural law of cause and effect.  The result of natural sin is natural death.  We can see this from Genesis 2 where God told Adam don’t eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you do you will surely die.  The Bible tells us that death entered into the world through the sin of one man, Adam (Rom 5:12).  But, it also tells us that by the obedience of one man, Jesus Christ all those who received it, would be made alive again.  These are two spiritual laws that have different results.  By embracing the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus we have overcome the law of sin and death that was passed upon us by our father Adam.  Our spiritual father Jesus took upon Himself death that we might be a partaker of His life.  That is an awesome trade for us.

Spiritual Law 3: Plant a Seed and Get a Harvest

There are many spiritual laws in the Bible and I cannot go into all of them.  For the sake of understanding I will give you one more example of a spiritual law found in the Bible.  This law governs men and women and their physical destiny almost more than any other that I can think of.  Because, people do not understand spiritual laws, they do not know how they have arrived at and are faced with all of the predicaments that they are presently confronted with.  People tend to believe in luck, either good luck or bad luck has dealt them what they have in their lives.  Other people believe, in the Doris Day religious philosophy “Ka Sa Ra, Whatever will be Will Be!.  Meaning no matter what happens to them it was not caused by anything that they did.  However, God has revealed something else in the Bible that is much more relevant to know than to think that everything that happens to us hass just been our bad luck.

    Gal 6:7  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

You see God gives us some very specific instructions in this verse.  Because, He does not want us to be deceived by what happens to us, He tells us clearly a spiritual law that governs our lives.  Sowing and Reaping is a spiritual law found in the Bible from cover to cover.  Just as the Law of Faith occurs in the Bible as a predominate theme and pattern, you can find every spiritual law revealed in every story of the Bible, if you look closely to discover them.  Sowing and reaping is a spiritual law implemented by God and it affects everyone equally, whether they realize it or not.  If you do not understand this spiritual law you need to study about farming concepts.  Farmers understand the law of sowing and reaping.  They plant specific seeds to get specific crops and harvests.  They do not plant corn seed to get cabbage.  They understand that whatever they sow, is exactly what they reap.  This is a spiritual law as well as a natural physical law.

    Gen 8:22  While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Written in the Law of God, in this verse in Genesis God is giving us some valuable information.  Many times, God speaks both in natural and spiritual terms in a verse and gives us a  law found in creation.  God informs us as long as the earth is here, we will see a cycle of continuous nights and days and  repeated seasons of warmth and cold.  But, along with this information is another repeated cycle of planting seeds and reaping harvests.  You can understand that God is speaking of how people will physically eat on this planet, but you can also apply this principle to the spiritual life of people. God is informing us how things work and we need to understand it, to be successful.  If you walk around planting seeds of discontent, seeds of discouragement, seeds of gloom, seeds of despair, seeds of evil, hurt, harm, guess what you will reap?  God said he would not be mocked, that a man or a woman would reap exactly what they have sown.  There are just as many ways to sow seed in the spiritual realm, as there are in the natural realm.  So every day you are planting seeds for your tomorrows.  Today you are reaping the harvests of your seeds of yesterdays and the cycle goes on and on.  If you don’t like what you are getting today in life, change what you are planting for your tomorrows.

So I talked about a small number of spiritual laws found in the Bible.  These laws govern and control what you get out of life.  God gives us great information about these laws in the Bible so that we can learn to use them to help us to live life to the fullest.  God gives us a number of great examples in the Bible of people utilizing these laws to achieve great things.   God also gives us examples of people who did not follow these spiritual laws and how they came to a less than admirable ending.  By cooperating with the spiritual laws we are far less likely to fall into something that someone could call just your random bad luck!  God Bless!

source
https://agapegeek.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/understanding-spiritual-laws-in-the-bible/

This should make my thoughts clear enough.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 01:24:00 PM by tick »
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline j

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #171 on: May 20, 2011, 11:45:22 AM »
No. Love is a choice. Freewill.

opening yourself to love/faith is a choice, not actually experiening it imo

Love is a little different I think, since people define it in so many different ways.

-J

Offline Bombardana

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Re: Spiritual Laws
« Reply #172 on: May 20, 2011, 02:02:33 PM »
Law of Faith: Faith should not be a reason for believing something. I think it is wrong to present faith like it is a desirable attribute, it shows a willingness to believe something without either evidence or rational questioning.

Law of Sin and Death vs. Spirit and Life: Original sin is a disgusting concept. I see no reason why an all-powerful God cannot simply forgive us. I see no reason why he had to have his son brutally killed in order to forgive us, as if vicarious redemption is admirable. I see no reason why I should have to ask forgiveness for something Adam did.

Law of Plant a Seed and Get a Harvest: This fails because good people can often go unrewarded or have terrible circumstances, whilst bad people can get away with whatever they want without repercussions. (If you want to divide morality up into simply "good" or "bad".)

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #173 on: May 20, 2011, 08:47:25 PM »
Thanks for posting that, tick, but what do those spiritual laws have to do with the Wagers?

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism Saved My Life
« Reply #174 on: May 21, 2011, 06:34:43 AM »
Thanks for posting that, tick, but what do those spiritual laws have to do with the Wagers?
I was thinking about how Gods laws are absolute so tapping into one produces the same results for any one who does. I was thinkink about how Pascal's logic was sound if it pertains to the here and now. It will have no effect on what comes after here.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 10:42:54 AM by tick »
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi