A Nation of Moochers

[Perpetual Change]

tjanuranus nonetheless makes a good point. Who are the bigger scam artists hurting our budget? Wall Street, or the merely "hood rich"?

[PowerSlave]

I've got an ex-wife that gets full disability because of drug dependancy. She's in her early 30's and perfectly capable of working. In 2008 when the financial mess started because of some asshole in new york got greedy, my 401k got cut in half and the company that I worked at for over 10 years went under. I had to roll my 401k over into an IRA or suffer an early withdraw penalty so some other bag of shit could take more shots at it to cover their golden parachute when they decide to "retire" from the company they've ran into the ground.

Last year I worked a total of 7 months at 4 different temp jobs all of which paid me less on the hour than I made 10 years ago with no benefits. No unemployment because I couldn't string along enough consecutive weeks at any of the jobs to qualify for it.

I didn't make enough money last year to owe any federal taxes much less barely survive yet, I'm a mooch.

Had to leave college in 2009 while carrying a respectable 3.52 gpa because I couldn't afford it. A supposedly "affordable" community college by the way. Yet, I'm a mooch.

I've got a 12 year old dodge that's on it's last legs that I'll be living in if my current low-wage temp job goes away yet, people like me are a mooch.

I don't want your paycheck or your sympathy. I want a job that pays well enough that I don't have to wonder if I'll be sharing the food bowl with my cat. People like me certainly don't deserve your contempt. Save it for your ditto-head circle of buddies at the office while you listen to Rush and Glen on the radio.

P.S. If this post warrants me a ban I'm happy to take it.

[William Wallace]

nobody gets more tax payer money than FAT BOURGEOIS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SCAM ARTISTS on wall street oh and the military industrial complex. How about start complaining about the people that are stealing your million in the TRILLIONS instead of someone who is just trying to feed their kids. This is exactly what "they" want.

"But corporate welfare, evil rich people, milton freedman was a dummy, nyay nyay nyay nyay!"

*froths at mouth

[lordxizor]

Somewhat of a subject I haven't got much background about. How much would you guys assume is the percentage of welfare abusers to the true needy?

I assume it's much less than most libertarians assume it is.

[Perpetual Change]

nobody gets more tax payer money than FAT BOURGEOIS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SCAM ARTISTS on wall street oh and the military industrial complex. How about start complaining about the people that are stealing your million in the TRILLIONS instead of someone who is just trying to feed their kids. This is exactly what "they" want.

"But corporate welfare, evil rich people, milton freedman was a dummy, nyay nyay nyay nyay!"

*froths at mouth

tjanuranus nonetheless makes a good point. Who are the bigger scam artists hurting our budget? Wall Street, or the merely "hood rich"?

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Remember PC, in WilliamWallaces world, companies never do anything wrong

[rumborak]

Somewhat of a subject I haven't got much background about. How much would you guys assume is the percentage of welfare abusers to the true needy?

I assume it's much less than most libertarians assume it is.

Of course. Let's even assume a high number, say 10% of welfare recipients abusing it. The Libertarian solution would punish nine times as many innocent people as it would the guilty ones.

rumborak

[gmillerdrake]

Somewhat of a subject I haven't got much background about. How much would you guys assume is the percentage of welfare abusers to the true needy?

I assume it's much less than most libertarians assume it is.

Of course. Let's even assume a high number, say 10% of welfare recipients abusing it. The Libertarian solution would punish nine times as many innocent people as it would the guilty ones.

rumborak

I guess it would really depend on what you consider 'abuse'. To me a person is abusing the system by not trying to better themselves or improve thier situation with the help of that 'temporary' aide. There are completely to many families/people who have made a living off the government rather than using that government assistance for what it was inteded for...a part time help me out...not an end all be all of that persons survival for the remainder of thier lives. Unfortunately, there are people/families who live that way and to an extent I have compassion for them and 'feel bad'. But at the same time, if they are making no effort whatsoever to better thier situation...that is abuse and my compassion begins to fade. 
  I for one would estimate the percentage significantly higher than what rumborak has suggested..but my definition of 'abuse' most likely differs from his.

[William Wallace]

tjanuranus nonetheless makes a good point. Who are the bigger scam artists hurting our budget? Wall Street, or the merely "hood rich"?

I don't know. I'm opposed to subsidies for both groups.

Somewhat of a subject I haven't got much background about. How much would you guys assume is the percentage of welfare abusers to the true needy?

I assume it's much less than most libertarians assume it is.

The argument doesn't hinge on the number of welfare abusers.

Remember PC, in WilliamWallaces world, companies never do anything wrong

That's a nifty caricature, but you know it's complete bullshit. Not being a "progressive" doesn't make me an apologist for corporate America.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Quick question:

Does "owed now federal income tax" mean that they owe nothing in addition to what's already taken out of their paycheck? Or that they haven't payed ANY income tax?

[tjanuranus]

nobody gets more tax payer money than FAT BOURGEOIS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SCAM ARTISTS on wall street oh and the military industrial complex. How about start complaining about the people that are stealing your million in the TRILLIONS instead of someone who is just trying to feed their kids. This is exactly what "they" want.

fyi: bourgeois literally means "middle class"

Not when Marx was referencing it. And that's what i am talking about.

"Marxism defines the bourgeoisie as the social class that owns the means of production in a capitalist society. As such, the core of the modern bourgeoisie is industrial bourgeoisie, which obtains income by hiring workers to put in motion their capital, which is to say, their means of production – machines, tools, raw material, etc. Besides that, other bourgeois sectors also exist, notably the commercial bourgeoisie, which earns income from commercial activities such as the buying and selling of commodities, wares and services."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie

[Quadrochosis]

Right, but in America, the bourgeois =/= the rich people on Wall Street.

[tjanuranus]

Right, but in America, the bourgeois =/= the rich people on Wall Street.

exactly

[William Wallace]

By the way, Robin Hood blows.

https://blogs.forbes.com/objectivist/2011/05/06/its-time-to-kill-the-robin-hood-myth/

The “reverse-Robin Hood” line suggests that Ryan’s plan robs from “the poor” and gives to “the rich.” But cutting entitlements is not robbery–and cutting taxes isn’t a gift.

Entitlements are essentially government handouts: the government takes money from some people in order to finance other people’s retirements, doctor’s visits, and whatever else the government deems worthy. They are unearned benefits. It is shameful that in a civilized society we have to say this, but getting less loot is not the same thing as being robbed...

...It is necessary and perhaps noble to deprive a person of what he has earned, but it would be morally monstrous to deprive a person of the unearned. You created wealth? Big deal. You have a need you can’t fulfill? You have a right that nothing on earth can supersede.

 

[ddtonfire]

By the way, Robin Hood blows.

https://blogs.forbes.com/objectivist/2011/05/06/its-time-to-kill-the-robin-hood-myth/

The “reverse-Robin Hood” line suggests that Ryan’s plan robs from “the poor” and gives to “the rich.” But cutting entitlements is not robbery–and cutting taxes isn’t a gift.

Entitlements are essentially government handouts: the government takes money from some people in order to finance other people’s retirements, doctor’s visits, and whatever else the government deems worthy. They are unearned benefits. It is shameful that in a civilized society we have to say this, but getting less loot is not the same thing as being robbed...

...It is necessary and perhaps noble to deprive a person of what he has earned, but it would be morally monstrous to deprive a person of the unearned. You created wealth? Big deal. You have a need you can’t fulfill? You have a right that nothing on earth can supersede.

 

But all those handouts are rights!

[King Postwhore]

It's the abusers of the system that the government needs to crack down on.  Why it hasn't happened we may never know.  It hurts the real people who truly need the help.

[Adami]

It hurts the real people who truly need the help.

How?

[73109]

tjanuranus, how old are you?

Also, I agree with both parties here. I absolutely hate the ass holes who spend spend spend, and yet, can't "afford" food. However, I am a bleeding heart and I feel incredibly bad for the people that need it. What I suggest, granted it would cost a lot of money, is to hire private investigators to deal with a couple of families on well fare. Those who contribute to society get more, while those who don't (i.e. don't try to find work, spend on unnecessary things, cheat the system, etc.) get cut off and die. If they turn to crime, keep em in jail for ever. Yeah, it is social Darwinism at work, but it helps those who need it, and hurts ass holes.

A perfect example comes to mind. I live in an urban area full of people who are like this. "Moochers." My piano teacher always tells his kids of the "only argument he has ever lost." It went something like this:

He was trying to teach piano and one chick just was always talking and being disrespectful. One day, he kinda just couldn't take it any more and asked why she just didn't care. Her response was something along the lines of not needing school because it was stupid. He then said that without school, you can't get a job, and without a job, you can't get money. She responds..."my mother has no job and she gets money." That needs to end.

[jsem]

She responds..."my mother has no job and she gets money." That needs to end.

Numbers. You just struck gold.

[King Postwhore]

It hurts the real people who truly need the help.

How?

I would think that their only so much money out their and if they could cut out the scammers it would be better for those in need.  What if they do cut some funding?

[Adami]

It hurts the real people who truly need the help.

How?

I would think that their only so much money out their and if they could cut out the scammers it would be better for those in need.  What if they do cut some funding?

I'm pretty sure the truly deserving would get the same amount, the remainder would most likely go into something else, like government pay checks.

[Genowyn]

In Canada, you're required to look for a job while on welfare and have something to show for it, or else get cut off. Why not just put a similar system in place in the US?

[Adami]

In Canada, you're required to look for a job while on welfare and have something to show for it, or else get cut off. Why not just put a similar system in place in the US?

I was under the impression they did have that.

[Perpetual Change]

It's the abusers of the system that the government needs to crack down on.  Why it hasn't happened we may never know.  It hurts the real people who truly need the help.

Yeah, but our government keeps the debate at the level of discourse of this thread, we'll never get there. We'll be too busy taking part in the bizarre ideological war.

[tjanuranus]

tjanuranus, how old are you?

why?

[GuineaPig]

Because your opinions seem to be as chromatic as your avatar.

[73109]

No, but my guess is 16. If I am right, I will tell you why.

[Genowyn]

In Canada, you're required to look for a job while on welfare and have something to show for it, or else get cut off. Why not just put a similar system in place in the US?

I was under the impression they did have that.

Well it doesn't seem to be working 

[73109]

They lie. It is not hard. Hence, what I said.

[tjanuranus]

No, but my guess is 16. If I am right, I will tell you why.

30. After living life for 30 years, having a job for 10 and getting laid off while trying to get my degree and struggling to get by like most people, i've formed my opinions about politics. I also ran a chapter of Democracy for America out of my house for a couple years and organized multiple anti war protests in NYC and DC. But i've become so bitter to politics in general that i don't actively participate anymore aside from voting. Plus i'm insanely busy now with school, etc...

I STILL don't see why it matters how old I am.

[73109]

Ah, you just seemed to be using a lot of words that come up in your average AP World History class, and I figured you were young and wanted to show off what you knew.

I take that back now.

[tjanuranus]

Ah, you just seemed to be using a lot of words that come up in your average AP World History class, and I figured you were young and wanted to show off what you knew.

I take that back now.

Ah i see. Yeah well i went to a evangelical christian school and they didn't talk about this stuff much. I mean we learned history but it's like they taught a lot of stuff in great detail. I read quite a bit of stuff on my own.

[Perpetual Change]

Don't worry. Numbers doesn't usually make sense.

[73109]

I don't see how that pertains to this thread all that much. So, anybody like my idea?

[King Postwhore]

It's the abusers of the system that the government needs to crack down on.  Why it hasn't happened we may never know.  It hurts the real people who truly need the help.

Yeah, but our government keeps the debate at the level of discourse of this thread, we'll never get there. We'll be too busy taking part in the bizarre ideological war.

That is sadly been the case for a long time.