A Nation of Moochers

[PraXis]

"It’s now official.  We’ve been heading to this for quite a while … and now we’re there.  Critical mass.  More than half of households in America do not pay federal income taxes.  For 2009, the latest year for which figures are available, 51% of U.S. households owed no federal income tax." 

https://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2011/may/05/nation-moochers/

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703703304576299560728821804.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The previous figure was 47%.

So instead of people like me in the 53% supporting the 47%, it is now the 49% supporting 51%... that's in 2009.. I wonder what the redistributor-in-chief will cause the numbers to become in 2010!?

[zerogravityfat]

If you want to have a serious discussion/debate over the poverty/unemployment/taxes, feel free to avoid gimmicky names like 'redistributor in chief' which incites nothing but polarized response. you will find that flame inciting is not tolerated.

[PraXis]

If you want to have a serious discussion/debate over the poverty/unemployment/taxes, feel free to avoid gimmicky names like 'redistributor in chief' which incites nothing but polarized response. you will find that flame inciting is not tolerated.

Considering a 4% jump in redistribution after just one year, it's an accurate title. My question is, how many of that 51% actually need the help (i.e. disabled)? Many in that 51% will get free money just for breeding, with all those tax credits for having kids. That's another problem that should be addressed. Get rid of all these stupid tax loopholes and credits and simplify the code. Everyone should pay something.

[Chino]

Everyone should pay something.

Sadly there are many people and families in this country that couldn't produce fifty bucks if you had a gun to their heads.

[PraXis]

Show me one. I see these supposed "poor" in NJ all the time, yet they still drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, have tattooes and cell phones.. all the while flashing their food stamp debit card after filling two shopping carts of food.

[Chino]

Show me one. I see these supposed "poor" in NJ all the time, yet they still drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, have tattooes and cell phones.. all the while flashing their food stamp debit card after filling two shopping carts of food.

This is just being ignorant. Show you one? Watch the news. I know people who 5 years ago were able to afford a nice car, and today still have the car but no source of income close to what they used to make. Nice clothes are really easy to find cheap. I could have gotten a tattoo when I was 18 and could afford it, now I wouldn't be able to get one. I'm not saying every case deserves it, but there are millions of people in this country that simply can't afford taxes. Or we could force them to pay taxes and leave them with nothing.

[El Barto]

Considering a 4% jump in redistribution after just one year, it's an accurate title. My question is, how many of that 51% actually need the help (i.e. disabled)? Many in that 51% will get free money just for breeding, with all those tax credits for having kids. That's another problem that should be addressed. Get rid of all these stupid tax loopholes and credits and simplify the code. Everyone should pay something.

Yeah, this is one that bothers me.  If you can't afford to have kids, don't.  I don't have too much problem contributing to their education since I have to live with the little bastards,  but we're at a point where we don't need to be encouraging population growth.  Hell, I'd rather see tax credits for people who choose not to spawn. 


Here's another thing that intrigues me.  Most people would prefer not to pay taxes.  It seems like the people outraged by something like this are really more pissed off that they're not able to scam the system.  I'd like to see a poll here of how many people would stop paying taxes if they could find a loophole that would allow it.  I don't think you'd find too many who'd voluntarily pay them. 

[King Postwhore]

Show me one. I see these supposed "poor" in NJ all the time, yet they still drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, have tattooes and cell phones.. all the while flashing their food stamp debit card after filling two shopping carts of food.

This is just being ignorant. Show you one? Watch the news. I know people who 5 years ago were able to afford a nice car, and today still have the car but no source of income close to what they used to make. Nice clothes are really easy to find cheap. I could have gotten a tattoo when I was 18 and could afford it, now I wouldn't be able to get one. I'm not saying every case deserves it, but there are millions of people in this country that simply can't afford taxes. Or we could force them to pay taxes and leave them with nothing.

Chino.  My wife works in a Pharmacy and sees people on welfare driving cars I can never own and talking on cell phones that are to of the line while picking up 7 different prescriptions for pennies.  She says it very commonplace.  Sad to say.

[Quadrochosis]

I never really understood why people complain about things like this. If you are really that upset that so many people are scamming the system, then just fucking scam the system yourself. It obviously isn't that hard.

If you don't want to do that because you think it's wrong, then stop complaining because it doesn't solve anything. Go out and change it yourself.

Basically just stop complaining either way, because it's really annoying.

[ehra]

If you don't want to do that because you think it's wrong, then stop complaining because it doesn't solve anything. Go out and change it yourself.

Basically just stop complaining either way, because it's really annoying.

Stop complaining about people complaining. Go out and change it yourself, because that's possible for a single person to do in any way.

[Quadrochosis]

If you don't want to do that because you think it's wrong, then stop complaining because it doesn't solve anything. Go out and change it yourself.

Basically just stop complaining either way, because it's really annoying.

Stop complaining about people complaining. Go out and change it yourself, because that's possible for a single person to do in any way.

The difference here is by me asking people to stop complaining, it might actually work and people might stop complaining. By complaining about some random governmental issue to a forum, you won't change anything.

[King Postwhore]

I never really understood why people complain about things like this. If you are really that upset that so many people are scamming the system, then just fucking scam the system yourself. It obviously isn't that hard.

If you don't want to do that because you think it's wrong, then stop complaining because it doesn't solve anything. Go out and change it yourself.

Basically just stop complaining either way, because it's really annoying.

I don't think it's complaining.  It's more frustrating seeing it's true.  The best thing I can do is vote the person out of office that won't fix it.

[ehra]

No discussion on this forum changes anything. Because that's all they're meant to be, discussions. No one thinks anything here is going to change how the country is run, and saying a thread is pointless because it won't is hilarious. But some may change someone else's knowledge/opinion on a particular issue.

[Chino]

I never really understood why people complain about things like this. If you are really that upset that so many people are scamming the system, then just fucking scam the system yourself. It obviously isn't that hard.

If you don't want to do that because you think it's wrong, then stop complaining because it doesn't solve anything. Go out and change it yourself.

Basically just stop complaining either way, because it's really annoying.

I don't think it's complaining.  It's more frustrating seeing it's true.  The best thing I can do is vote the person out of office that won't fix it.

Oh, I know. I had to do almost a hundred hours of community service in a soup kitchen. I saw plenty of people in there just for a free meal. But I also saw and met people that were so shit out of luck, I couldn't even imagine being in their situation.

[XJDenton]

In a choice between screwing over the needy and the moochers getting some help undeservedly, I'll take the former. Any system will be abused if people can get away with it.

[King Postwhore]

In a choice between screwing over the needy and the moochers getting some help undeservedly, I'll take the former. Any system will be abused if people can get away with it.

Or the system does a better job of governing.

[Perpetual Change]

In a choice between screwing over the needy and the moochers getting some help undeservedly, I'll take the former. Any system will be abused if people can get away with it.

Yes, this is what it boils down to. That's not to say it has to be an all or nothing thing, though.

[j]

In a choice between screwing over the needy and the moochers getting some help undeservedly, I'll take the former

You heartless bastard!

-J

[Dublagent66]

Considering a 4% jump in redistribution after just one year, it's an accurate title. My question is, how many of that 51% actually need the help (i.e. disabled)? Many in that 51% will get free money just for breeding, with all those tax credits for having kids. That's another problem that should be addressed. Get rid of all these stupid tax loopholes and credits and simplify the code. Everyone should pay something.

Yeah, this is one that bothers me.  If you can't afford to have kids, don't.  I don't have too much problem contributing to their education since I have to live with the little bastards,  but we're at a point where we don't need to be encouraging population growth.  Hell, I'd rather see tax credits for people who choose not to spawn. 


Here's another thing that intrigues me.  Most people would prefer not to pay taxes.  It seems like the people outraged by something like this are really more pissed off that they're not able to scam the system.  I'd like to see a poll here of how many people would stop paying taxes if they could find a loophole that would allow it.  I don't think you'd find too many who'd voluntarily pay them. 

I would mostly agree with this.  I don't have kids but, I don't mind paying taxes.  The problem with most people is that their spending priorities are so far out of whack.  They spend on needless/unimportant things and then wonder why they can't pay their bills.  Tax cuts don't help any because they just spend that extra money on something else.  Mostly on things they don't need. This also applies to the gov't.  What pisses me off is my tax dollars are wasted while others don't pay taxes at all.  The system is broken.

[PraXis]

In a choice between screwing over the needy and the moochers getting some help undeservedly, I'll take the former. Any system will be abused if people can get away with it.

You won't screw over the needy if you go after the moochers. It'd be simple. You can look at where the money is spent and make some aid temporary. You could also drug test people that get state aid. That would solve a lot of problems.

As a libertarian, I DO believe in legalization, but I also believe that if you need state aid, you should not get a penny if you are using drugs.

[Perpetual Change]

I think what PraXis is getting at is right: we could afford to help the people that really needed help if we weren't busy helping those who don't need it.

But I'm not sure how we fix that.

[Chino]

Once cell phone transactions become the norm. The government should issue the needy with phones that track every transaction they make. That would keep them in check.

[El Barto]

Once cell phone transactions become the norm. The government should issue the needy with phones that track every transaction they make. That would keep them in check.

Not really.  The cards already allow only acceptable purchases.  The thing is, if Uncle Sammy is paying for diapers, formula, and all of your food, that leaves all the rest of your money available for bling, crack and hoes. 

[jsem]

No discussion on this forum changes anything. Because that's all they're meant to be, discussions. No one thinks anything here is going to change how the country is run, and saying a thread is pointless because it won't is hilarious. But some may change someone else's knowledge/opinion on a particular issue.

Lets not turn this into a philosophical discussion about the purpose of P/R.. lol

[orcus116]

Chino.  My wife works in a Pharmacy and sees people on welfare driving cars I can never own and talking on cell phones that are to of the line while picking up 7 different prescriptions for pennies.  She says it very commonplace.  Sad to say.

That reminds me of when I used to help my parents deliver food for Thanksgiving and Christmas. We'd walk into houses and see five or six kids piled on the couch in front of a giant 50"+ TV with expensive toys all over the place and here we were delivering a $8 turkey they "couldn't afford".

[William Wallace]

"It’s now official.  We’ve been heading to this for quite a while … and now we’re there.  Critical mass.  More than half of households in America do not pay federal income taxes.  For 2009, the latest year for which figures are available, 51% of U.S. households owed no federal income tax." 

...it is now the 49% supporting 51%... that's in 2009.. I wonder what the redistributor-in-chief will cause the numbers to become in 2010!?

"But corporate welfare, evil rich people, milton freedman was a dummy, nyay nyay nyay nyay!"

*froths at mouth

[Adami]

Show me one. I see these supposed "poor" in NJ all the time, yet they still drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, have tattooes and cell phones.. all the while flashing their food stamp debit card after filling two shopping carts of food.

You haven't seen poor people, if that's who you consider to be poor people.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Show me one. I see these supposed "poor" in NJ all the time, yet they still drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, have tattooes and cell phones.. all the while flashing their food stamp debit card after filling two shopping carts of food.

Come to my where I live in West Philly and talk about poverty

[orcus116]

Born and raised?

[tjanuranus]

nobody gets more tax payer money than FAT BOURGEOIS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SCAM ARTISTS on wall street oh and the military industrial complex. How about start complaining about the people that are stealing your million in the TRILLIONS instead of someone who is just trying to feed their kids. This is exactly what "they" want.

[yeshaberto]

when we would do food outreach during the holidays in our community, we decided to ask other people who they knew that could use it (rather than the people who said they needed it).  We discovered a significant number of people who would never ask for help who were desperately in need.  Unfortunately, the squeeky wheel gets the oil and this helped to get oil to the truly hurting.

[sneakyblueberry]

Born and raised?

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Born and raised?

:sigh:

I can't say that without someone mentioning it

[Progmetty]

Somewhat of a subject I haven't got much background about. How much would you guys assume is the percentage of welfare abusers to the true needy?

[sonatafanica]

nobody gets more tax payer money than FAT BOURGEOIS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SCAM ARTISTS on wall street oh and the military industrial complex. How about start complaining about the people that are stealing your million in the TRILLIONS instead of someone who is just trying to feed their kids. This is exactly what "they" want.

fyi: bourgeois literally means "middle class"