What makes Six Degrees one song and not SFAM ?

Started by Kotowboy, May 02, 2011, 09:22:59 AM

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ariich

Quote from: ZirconBlue on May 03, 2011, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: ariich on May 03, 2011, 07:38:03 AM
Quote from: metty on May 03, 2011, 07:06:36 AM
To me SDOIT Disc 2 contains 8 musically individual songs that link together at the same topic, call it suite or concept album but don't call it one song imo.
What so the band are wrong about how they classify their own piece of music?

That's ridiculous. The band wrote it as a song, therefore it's a song. People can consider it to be whatever they want (personally I think it makes an amazing parsnip) but in terms of answering the OP, it is considered one song because that is what the band consider it to be.

What if DT decided to say that SoC is an Operetta?
Well, the problem there is that it bears no characteristics of an operetta (the lack of vocals, first and foremost). Whereas if the band had never said anything, then SDOIT could easily be considered both a song or a suite. However since the band have stated that it is one and not the other, that's what I go with.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on May 10, 2023, 05:59:19 PMAriich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
Quote from: TAC on December 21, 2023, 06:05:15 AMI be am boner inducing.

Dublagent66

Wow, can we merge this with another "concept" album topic?  No wait, bad idea.  The forum would explode.   :splodetard:

Perpetual Change

Ok, I'll rephrase the question then:

Quote...you said Dream Theater were "pushing the boundaries of traditional musical concepts." Are you going to explain what those traditional music concepts are, and how they DT expanded on them? ... I mean, what's the big revolutionary idea behind SDOIT, then? They wrote a suite, but had the balls to call it "one long song?"

The Dark Master

Quote from: Perpetual Change on May 04, 2011, 07:44:12 PM
Ok, I'll rephrase the question then:

Quote...you said Dream Theater were "pushing the boundaries of traditional musical concepts." Are you going to explain what those traditional music concepts are, and how they DT expanded on them? ... I mean, what's the big revolutionary idea behind SDOIT, then? They wrote a suite, but had the balls to call it "one long song?"

Even though you were not responding to a post of mine, I would like to comment on this, if I may:

You're right, there really is nothing revolutionary about Dream Theater writing a 42 minute, 8 movement piece of music and calling it one big song.  Composers have been writing stuff like Six Degrees for centuries.  What is revolutionary about it, however, is the fact that it is a rock/metal 8 movement, 42 min piece of music.  Now in and of itself, that is nothing original per see; prog bands have been writing stuff like this since the 70's, but it is worth pointing out that in the world of rock as a whole, the idea of constructing a single, epic composition like 6DOIT divided into multiple parts is still fairly rare.  I think as prog fans, we tend to take for granted that bands will do things like suites, concepts albums, rock operas, 20+ minute epics, etc; but in the world of popular music, such ideas are relatively few and far between.  And for a band like Dream Theater, a band that increasingly has appeal to a younger, more modern oriented fanbase, things like 6DOIT help to intoduce those concepts to a whole new generation of music fans that were up until now relatively unfamiliar with them.  Even today, most younger metal/prog fans I know have their minds blown by things like ACOS and 6DOIT, and even people 20+ years old, whether their musical cup of tea is Motley Crue, Nirvana, or Disturbed, are still reasonably unfamiliar with the idea of a "rock epic".  For a band like Dream Theater, a band that while not necessarily mainstream still has a wide enough appeal to be drawing in otherwise mainstream music fans, things like ACOS and 6DOIT are relatively ballsy.  6DOIT may not be revolutionary in the sense that no one had ever done something like that before (Fates Warning wrote A Pleasant Shade of Grey a scant 5 years before DT wrote 6DOIT) it is a safe be that there are far, far more rock/metal bands would much rather stick to musically distinct individual 3-4 minute songs, thus making 6DOIT quite revolutionary indeed.  It may not be a new idea, but in the world of modern rock, it is a rather uncommon one.

orcus116

I respect where you're coming from but you're giving the band way too much credit.

The Dark Master

Quote from: orcus116 on May 04, 2011, 09:10:59 PM
I respect where you're coming from but you're giving the band way too much credit.

Elaborate, please

Perpetual Change

DM, that's not what bosk said though. He was replying to someone saying they thought SDOIT was a suite (which it is). Bosk said [sic] that he could say why people might think SDOIT was a suite, but it isn't, because DT were doing something really revolutionary instead (apparently, writing a suite and calling it something else ???  :lol)

The Dark Master

Quote from: Perpetual Change on May 04, 2011, 09:19:39 PM
DM, that's not what bosk said though. He was replying to someone saying they thought SDOIT was a suite (which it is). Bosk said [sic] that he could say why people might think SDOIT was a suite, but it isn't, because DT were doing something really revolutionary instead (apparently, writing a suite and calling it something else ???  :lol)

I was simply explaining why someone (bosk, in this case) may view something like 6DOIT as "revolutionary"; I wasn't attempting to paraphrase him, or answer for him, or anything like that, merely stating my thoughts on that particular matter.

orcus116

Quote from: The Dark Master on May 04, 2011, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: orcus116 on May 04, 2011, 09:10:59 PM
I respect where you're coming from but you're giving the band way too much credit.

Elaborate, please

Like you said what the band did is nothing new and from what I've encountered as far as the type of people that would listen to Dream Theater they're more or less either used to a slightly different compositional/arrangement style. Six Degrees was my first Dream Theater album and I still remember not being too phased looking at the back and seeing essentially just an mini-album slammed onto the second disc. Try this back in the 60s and yeah I could see some heads turning but we're in an age of music where people use straws as instruments and wear plastic bubble suits on stage.

Perpetual Change

Yeah, 6DOIT maybe is revolutionary for those fans of DT who came exclusively from the 80s metal side, but for the side of the fanbase that's more made up of prog people 6DOIT isn't exactly groundbreaking. I love it, but that doesn't mean I have to think that it hasn't been done before.

The Dark Master

Quote from: orcus116 on May 04, 2011, 09:32:39 PM
Quote from: The Dark Master on May 04, 2011, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: orcus116 on May 04, 2011, 09:10:59 PM
I respect where you're coming from but you're giving the band way too much credit.

Elaborate, please

Like you said what the band did is nothing new and from what I've encountered as far as the type of people that would listen to Dream Theater they're more or less either used to a slightly different compositional/arrangement style. Six Degrees was my first Dream Theater album and I still remember not being too phased looking at the back and seeing essentially just an mini-album slammed onto the second disc. Try this back in the 60s and yeah I could see some heads turning but we're in an age of music where people use straws as instruments and wear plastic bubble suits on stage.

Fair enough.  My point was simply that if you consider the complete landscape of rock music, things like Six Degrees are rare.  Not many rock bands do things like that, and to many people, that makes it a bold and daring artistic statement (or unbelievably pretentious and pompous, depending on your point of view  ;) ).  

orcus116

As far as rock music in general DT is seen through the lens of the latter I'm afraid.

HarlequinForest

SFAM feels more like a single song to me than Six Degrees.