Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden dead.  (Read 55377 times)

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Offline 73109

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2011, 10:37:27 PM »
Yay, I'm not the only one!

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2011, 10:38:17 PM »
How is what we are doing in front of the White House any different then people celebrating in the streets of Iraq after 9/11. This is pathetic and all those celebrating should be...well...I don't know.

I agree...as noted.

strongly disagree. they didn't surprisingly kill 3,000 people with a surprise attack that led to a war which in turn produced even more unfortunate deaths.
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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2011, 10:39:10 PM »
posting it here, since it's political and editing the other thread.

I'm sorry but people celebrating the death of a human being disturbs me.

I mean, it's ok to feel a sense of solemn relief. But the thousands of people celebrating outside the White House is just fucked up.

In fact, it's just as fucked up as the Middle Eastern towns that were cheering on the night of 9.11

I agree to an extent, but the conditions are a bit different.


Those "middle-eastern" towns were likely celebrating because the killing of thousands of americans was a realization of an extremist view that the death of americans is a good thing.

The celebration of Osama's death is likely being celebrated because of the mass effort and many years of bringing a murderer and a terrorist to justice and having that sort of peace of mind.


Not saying I agree with it, and I'm not celebrating his death, but there's a difference and I don't see how it's "just as fucked up".

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2011, 10:39:59 PM »
posting it here, since it's political and editing the other thread.

I'm sorry but people celebrating the death of a human being disturbs me.

I mean, it's ok to feel a sense of solemn relief. But the thousands of people celebrating outside the White House is just fucked up.

In fact, it's just as fucked up as the Middle Eastern towns that were cheering on the night of 9.11





The celebration of Osama's death is likely being celebrated because of the mass effort and many years of bringing a murderer and a terrorist to justice and having that sort of peace of mind.




i agree with sonata for once.
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Online Adami

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2011, 10:40:07 PM »
How is what we are doing in front of the White House any different then people celebrating in the streets of Iraq after 9/11. This is pathetic and all those celebrating should be...well...I don't know.

I agree...as noted.

strongly disagree. they didn't surprisingly kill 3,000 people with a surprise attack that led to a war which in turn produced even more unfortunate deaths.


Not to disrespect you or the troops or America even, but the Arab world sees the incidents a little differently than we do. They don't see the wars starting with 9/11, nor do they consider that the first attack.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2011, 10:41:28 PM »
While this day is obviously one of joyous celebration for America it is important to remember that there are many serious issues surrounding the death of Osama Bin Laden which will shake out in the coming weeks. Remember that in war one must know his enemy, and it’s possible nobody knows their enemy less than Americans when it comes to Osama Bin Laden. Although he was a mass murderer he was also a highly intelligent man, and has for years shifted media focus on other top members of Al-Qaeda. He was smart enough to know that he would likely not live to see a natural end to his life and was completely at peace with that. Many will call him a coward, but there is no disputing some facts. Bin Laden gave up life as a billionaire to fight for his beliefs on the front lines against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Osama was not afraid to die, and it is extremely unlikely that he was unprepared for his own death. Make no mistake, Al-Qaeda will continue, though at least for awhile it may not be as effective as it has been. Many people question the resourcefulness of the organization, and it’s true it is without its figurehead, but it may have gained a martyr. It is an organization that was able to maintain its multi-national and multi-ethnic operations, operated under a central leadership, despite being at war with the greatest military power on earth.

I fear many people will see this as a justification of US foreign policy, but I would say this prompts a stronger look than ever at it. Osama Bin Laden, before taking a single action against the United States, declared war on us and clearly documented why he was doing so. US bases remained in the Saudi Kingdom after the first Iraq war and the United States clearly favored Israel in its Middle Eastern policies. Though Bin Laden’s actions on 9/11 are reprehensible they were certainly not without reason, and we remain ignorant of the world outside our own country if we do not recognize some fault of our own in the way we’ve conducted business in the world.

After the US Embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing Bin Laden had made it clear he hoped to bring the American military to Afghanistan. A nation which has ejected multiple imperial powers Bin Laden himself has said that if we could be drawn there our nation could be forced into bankruptcy and expelled just as the Soviet Union had been. On 9/11 Bin Laden hit his mark and the United States declared war on terrorism. Our foreign policy steered us into two wars, one far more justified than the other, and in the process we have endured the types of financial hardships that Bin Laden had predicted and hoped for. The financial resources of Al-Qaeda are insignificant compared to that of the United States and yet they have caused US spending at home and abroad to skyrocket.

I have always believed that we can either learn from history or we can follow in its follies. I fear the emotional victory of this day will lead us into that latter path. While it may not feel right to leave Afghanistan we must look at how long it has been, how much it has cost us and ask, “Do we belong here?” Do we have the right to tell other people how they should run their country? Ask yourself how it feels when someone more powerful than yourself tells you how to run your life. While we might have righteousness in our hearts that will not stop resentment among many.  What right does the United States have in maintaining a military presence in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia which contains the two holiest cities of the Muslim faith? I believe it is time we walk softly, but carry a big stick. While I think we must be prepared to strike against those who would strike against us, I don’t believe that holding our club over entire other countries is the best means with which to protect ourselves.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:46:29 PM by Nick »
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Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #76 on: May 01, 2011, 10:41:50 PM »
How is what we are doing in front of the White House any different then people celebrating in the streets of Iraq after 9/11. This is pathetic and all those celebrating should be...well...I don't know.

I agree...as noted.

strongly disagree. they didn't surprisingly kill 3,000 people with a surprise attack that led to a war which in turn produced even more unfortunate deaths.


Not to disrespect you or the troops or America even, but the Arab world sees the incidents a little differently than we do. They don't see the wars starting with 9/11, nor do they consider that the first attack.

it's not the arab world. it's the arab extremists.

and i know you don't mean any disrespect, it's all good.
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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #77 on: May 01, 2011, 10:44:57 PM »
It's the Arab world. I'm not saying every Arab feels that way, but I doubt you'll find non extremists who believe the same thing about this that Americans do.


The extremists just take to an extreme, hence their name. But their side of the coin is still different than the Americans. Whether or not they support Al Queda or denounce it, I assure you that most of the Arab world does not see 9/11 as the first strike.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #78 on: May 01, 2011, 10:46:11 PM »
Adami is correct. And where'd you get that wall o' text from, Nick?

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2011, 10:46:25 PM »
Trust him on this one, he's Israeli. ;)
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Offline Nick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2011, 10:47:23 PM »
Adami is correct. And where'd you get that wall o' text from, Nick?

My keyboard.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2011, 10:48:12 PM »
Oh, my bad :lol I had thought you were one of the more pro-war types here for some reason.

Offline MetalManiac666

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #82 on: May 01, 2011, 10:48:24 PM »
*snip*

Pretty sure it's a copy-pasta, but very well said anyway.

EDIT: nvm

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #83 on: May 01, 2011, 10:51:05 PM »
It's the Arab world. I'm not saying every Arab feels that way, but I doubt you'll find non extremists who believe the same thing about this that Americans do.


The extremists just take to an extreme, hence their name. But their side of the coin is still different than the Americans. Whether or not they support Al Queda or denounce it, I assure you that most of the Arab world does not see 9/11 as the first strike.

i'm not taking sides, im being objective. to say that most "arabs" believe that 9/11 is a good thing is absolute crap, im one of the few that actually know. what most don't know is that islam is, for the most part, a peaceful religion, and to think that "most arabs" celebrate the death of american's is wholly inaccurate.  
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #84 on: May 01, 2011, 10:52:45 PM »
I don't think it has too much to do with Islam.

Offline 73109

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #85 on: May 01, 2011, 10:53:23 PM »
Oh, my bad :lol I had thought you were one of the more pro-war types here for some reason.

So did I...go figure.

And ricky, yes, Islam is for the most part peaceful, but that does not mean the Arab outlook on America is what we think it is.

Offline Nick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #86 on: May 01, 2011, 10:53:36 PM »
Oh, my bad :lol I had thought you were one of the more pro-war types here for some reason.

I was for going into Afghanistan to bring Osama to justice and opposed to remaining there and VERY opposed to Iraq from day 1.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #87 on: May 01, 2011, 10:53:42 PM »
I think that what Adami is referring to is a thing of geopolitics more than religion.
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Offline 73109

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #88 on: May 01, 2011, 10:54:27 PM »
Exactly.

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #89 on: May 01, 2011, 10:54:30 PM »
Oh, my bad :lol I had thought you were one of the more pro-war types here for some reason.

So did I...go figure.

And ricky, yes, Islam is for the most part peaceful, but that does not mean the Arab outlook on America is what we think it is.

my only question is how do you know?

edit - through the media?
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Offline Nick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #90 on: May 01, 2011, 10:55:43 PM »
As for Islam, there is always fighting over whether it is a religion of peace or a religion of war. Much like everything else the answer is neither that simple or extreme. I've read the Koran and I've read the bible, and both are similar in that you can make you case for peace and war with scriptural support.
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Offline Riceball

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #91 on: May 01, 2011, 11:00:02 PM »
Nick - ridiculously good post.

Here is my two cents in a condensed form:

One: get ready for more attacks. Al'queda will look at this as just another play in the game. Nick is right, Al'Queda and Bin Laden aren't/weren't dumb, they would have contingencies in place for events such as this and someone will soon fill the void. Not that it was likely Bin Laden was directly involved in a whole bunch of stuff.

Two: Obama went to huge lengths to claim ownership of the issue, I watched his speech live at work and he was very definitive that he authorised the operation, he gave the go ahead etc. No doubt, this isn't a hoax and hes going to be much better off politically for it.

Three: Those Americans who are chanting outisde of the White House are poor, sodden human beings; while I understand the sense of relief in eliminating the figurehead of an organisation who attacked their nation, contain yourselves people! As I've said before, IMO this doesn't mean much other than politically for the administration.
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Offline 73109

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #92 on: May 01, 2011, 11:02:03 PM »
Oh, my bad :lol I had thought you were one of the more pro-war types here for some reason.

So did I...go figure.

And ricky, yes, Islam is for the most part peaceful, but that does not mean the Arab outlook on America is what we think it is.

my only question is how do you know?

edit - through the media?

Books, newspapers, personal study, personal experience...

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #93 on: May 01, 2011, 11:03:25 PM »
Remember when Saddam was killed, and the video of his death went viral? That seemed to be pretty sobering to some of the people who wanted to celebrate it.

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #94 on: May 01, 2011, 11:07:36 PM »
Oh, my bad :lol I had thought you were one of the more pro-war types here for some reason.

So did I...go figure.

And ricky, yes, Islam is for the most part peaceful, but that does not mean the Arab outlook on America is what we think it is.

my only question is how do you know?

edit - through the media?

Books, newspapers, personal study, personal experience...

i'm just curious. you seriously think it's islam as a whole, and not just the extremeists?
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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #95 on: May 01, 2011, 11:12:46 PM »
It's the Arab world. I'm not saying every Arab feels that way, but I doubt you'll find non extremists who believe the same thing about this that Americans do.


The extremists just take to an extreme, hence their name. But their side of the coin is still different than the Americans. Whether or not they support Al Queda or denounce it, I assure you that most of the Arab world does not see 9/11 as the first strike.

i'm not taking sides, im being objective. to say that most "arabs" believe that 9/11 is a good thing is absolute crap, im one of the few that actually know. what most don't know is that islam is, for the most part, a peaceful religion, and to think that "most arabs" celebrate the death of american's is wholly inaccurate.  

I agree, unfortunately I didn't say anything near what you're arguing against. I never mentioned the words "good" or "bad" in my post. I know a lot about Islam, and I know a lot about the Arab countries, even if you did a tour in one or two of them. I know most arabs don't think 9/11 was a good thing, what I said was that most Arabs don't view 9/11 as the first strike. If you have something to comment about what I'm saying, feel free. But what you responded with had nothing at all to do with what I posted. I am a strong supporter of Arabs and Muslims, and I consider them to be my cousins.
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Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #96 on: May 01, 2011, 11:18:01 PM »
It's the Arab world. I'm not saying every Arab feels that way, but I doubt you'll find non extremists who believe the same thing about this that Americans do.


The extremists just take to an extreme, hence their name. But their side of the coin is still different than the Americans. Whether or not they support Al Queda or denounce it, I assure you that most of the Arab world does not see 9/11 as the first strike.

i'm not taking sides, im being objective. to say that most "arabs" believe that 9/11 is a good thing is absolute crap, im one of the few that actually know. what most don't know is that islam is, for the most part, a peaceful religion, and to think that "most arabs" celebrate the death of american's is wholly inaccurate.  

I agree, unfortunately I didn't say anything near what you're arguing against. I never mentioned the words "good" or "bad" in my post. I know a lot about Islam, and I know a lot about the Arab countries, even if you did a tour in one or two of them. I know most arabs don't think 9/11 was a good thing, what I said was that most Arabs don't view 9/11 as the first strike. If you have something to comment about what I'm saying, feel free. But what you responded with had nothing at all to do with what I posted. I am a strong supporter of Arabs and Muslims, and I consider them to be my cousins.


sorry, i guess i interpreted your post wrong...my bad.

in all seriousness, in a non argumentative way,  i am just curious to know what we (the US) did that led up to the attacks, as I in all seriousness don't know.
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Online Adami

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #97 on: May 01, 2011, 11:23:00 PM »
It's the Arab world. I'm not saying every Arab feels that way, but I doubt you'll find non extremists who believe the same thing about this that Americans do.


The extremists just take to an extreme, hence their name. But their side of the coin is still different than the Americans. Whether or not they support Al Queda or denounce it, I assure you that most of the Arab world does not see 9/11 as the first strike.

i'm not taking sides, im being objective. to say that most "arabs" believe that 9/11 is a good thing is absolute crap, im one of the few that actually know. what most don't know is that islam is, for the most part, a peaceful religion, and to think that "most arabs" celebrate the death of american's is wholly inaccurate.  

I agree, unfortunately I didn't say anything near what you're arguing against. I never mentioned the words "good" or "bad" in my post. I know a lot about Islam, and I know a lot about the Arab countries, even if you did a tour in one or two of them. I know most arabs don't think 9/11 was a good thing, what I said was that most Arabs don't view 9/11 as the first strike. If you have something to comment about what I'm saying, feel free. But what you responded with had nothing at all to do with what I posted. I am a strong supporter of Arabs and Muslims, and I consider them to be my cousins.


sorry, i guess i interpreted your post wrong...my bad.

in all seriousness, in a non argumentative way,  i am just curious to know what we (the US) did that led up to the attacks, as I in all seriousness don't know.

Here's a random link, it's a start, I am tired, but maybe others can give you better info. https://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6308.htm
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Offline j

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #98 on: May 01, 2011, 11:34:26 PM »
Two: Obama went to huge lengths to claim ownership of the issue, I watched his speech live at work and he was very definitive that he authorised the operation, he gave the go ahead etc.

I noticed this, seemed pretty lame especially because it was so painfully obvious what he was doing.

Anyway, I agree with those who are saying it's probably mostly inconsequential, and that anybody celebrating this (or the death of any other human being) has got problems.

-J

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Re: Osama Bin Ladden dead.
« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2011, 11:57:59 PM »
posting it here, since it's political and editing the other thread.

I'm sorry but people celebrating the death of a human being disturbs me.

I mean, it's ok to feel a sense of solemn relief. But the thousands of people celebrating outside the White House is just fucked up.

In fact, it's just as fucked up as the Middle Eastern towns that were cheering on the night of 9.11

I agree to an extent, but the conditions are a bit different.


Those "middle-eastern" towns were likely celebrating because the killing of thousands of americans was a realization of an extremist view that the death of americans is a good thing.

The celebration of Osama's death is likely being celebrated because of the mass effort and many years of bringing a murderer and a terrorist to justice and having that sort of peace of mind.


Not saying I agree with it, and I'm not celebrating his death, but there's a difference and I don't see how it's "just as fucked up".
My take on it was that they were celebrating that a blow had been struck.  If the towers and planes had been deserted, they would still have celebrated a significant attack on American soil.  The body count was inconsequential.  In that regard, I'd say that the celebrations are quite similar.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #100 on: May 02, 2011, 12:28:46 AM »
Two: Obama went to huge lengths to claim ownership of the issue, I watched his speech live at work and he was very definitive that he authorised the operation, he gave the go ahead etc.

I noticed this, seemed pretty lame especially because it was so painfully obvious what he was doing.

Anyway, I agree with those who are saying it's probably mostly inconsequential, and that anybody celebrating this (or the death of any other human being) has got problems.

-J

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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #101 on: May 02, 2011, 12:32:47 AM »
Not only should his death be celebrated but his corpse should be violated on national tv by people of all religions and races.

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2011, 12:35:34 AM »
Not only should his death be celebrated but his corpse should be violated on national tv by people of all religions and races.

space cadet, pull out.
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Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #103 on: May 02, 2011, 12:38:55 AM »
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization, released a statement Monday morning welcoming the death of bin Laden.

"As we have stated repeatedly since the 9/11 terror attacks, bin Laden never represented Muslims or Islam. In fact, in addition to the killing of thousands of Americans, he and al Qaeda caused the deaths of countless Muslims worldwide," the statement said. "We also reiterate President Obama's clear statement tonight that the United States is not at war with Islam."
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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #104 on: May 02, 2011, 12:40:45 AM »
Does anyone actually think america is at war with Islam? Wtf