Osama Bin Laden dead.

[tjanuranus]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people. Fuck him, and fuck everyone who tries to act like they are above everyone else because it's "wrong" to be happy about his death.

I don't even think you have his intentions down correctly. From my understanding, he had a distorted view of Islam and believed that it was his holy duty to kill (or lead to the killing) of non-Muslims. In his view, we were guilty.

Again, I bring up the relativist argument. If we don't hold ourselves to some sort of higher morality that trumps our own government, are we not on the same level as Osama?

Trust me i know quite a bit about this history of Osama Bin Laden and Al qaeda, going back to when the United States armed the taliban to fight off the soviets and kept US troops in Saudia Arabia when clearly some members of the Saudi royal family were against it for religious reasons like Osama.

[tjanuranus]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people.

Ah, it seems you edited the insults out before I could quote you properly.

was an emotional over reaction on my part which i realized once reading it again.

[Adami]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people.

Ah, it seems you edited the insults out before I could quote you properly.

was an emotional over reaction on my part which i realized once reading it again.

That's ok, I understand.

[Quadrochosis]

Agree about what part of your post?

That we should have a higher moral standard than the minimum our government sets out?  Yes.

That we shouldn't kill each other?  Mostly.  I would agree that we shouldn't murder.  But there are instances where killing is not murder and is justified.

That we look at Bin Laden's death differently than al quaeda?  Without question.

That both sides are right?  No, not at all.

Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that as a Christian you should agree that we should have a higher moral standard than the government sets out.

I agree with you on all your other points except what you said about not killing each other. I'm not entirely sure that there are instances where humans can be completely justified in killing another human.

[chknptpie]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

[Quadrochosis]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

I disagree. We all have our evil sides.

[Adami]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

I am not saying you feel this way, but the people that is aimed at are the people who find joy in his death and suffering. Those who find joy in the death and suffering and humiliation of others can be said to not be human beings like me. The difference, you (and by that I mean the people who we're aiming this at) feel justified in how you feel, while having the belief that terrorists have no justification other than a desire to murder anyone. Which, is not true.

[chknptpie]

I feel no compassion, remorse, or sadness for Bin Laden's death. Why should I? The man put together several attacks on American soil that lead to the deaths of thousands. It feels like for the past 10 years nothing has gone right, we've only become more divided. I see no problem in celebrating the end of an era with that man in charge of Al Queda. It gives closure to me and those affected by 9/11.

[Adami]

I feel no compassion, remorse, or sadness for Bin Laden's death. Why should I? The man put together several attacks on American soil that lead to the deaths of thousands. It feels like for the past 10 years nothing has gone right, we've only become more divided. I see no problem in celebrating the end of an era with that man in charge of Al Queda. It gives closure to me and those affected by 9/11.

You find that the closure isn't as permanent as you may think.

[rumborak]

I think there's been two casualties in this hunt for bin Laden: Obviously bin Laden himself, but also any pretense the US may have ever had that it is trying to promote rule of law and due process around the world. In the end, all that stuff is brushed aside without a tear if the ends seem favorable enough.

rumborak

[tjanuranus]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

I am not saying you feel this way, but the people that is aimed at are the people who find joy in his death and suffering. Those who find joy in the death and suffering and humiliation of others can be said to not be human beings like me. The difference, you (and by that I mean the people who we're aiming this at) feel justified in how you feel, while having the belief that terrorists have no justification other than a desire to murder anyone. Which, is not true.

His justifications are irrelevant. That's the point i am some others are making i believe. You can have a justification to do almost anything , it doesn't make it right. Just as the US justifications for illegitimate wars don't make them right either.

[Quadrochosis]

You find that the closure isn't as permanent as you may think.

This. In a week's time we'll all be back to caring about Donald Trump again.

[Adami]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

I am not saying you feel this way, but the people that is aimed at are the people who find joy in his death and suffering. Those who find joy in the death and suffering and humiliation of others can be said to not be human beings like me. The difference, you (and by that I mean the people who we're aiming this at) feel justified in how you feel, while having the belief that terrorists have no justification other than a desire to murder anyone. Which, is not true.

His justifications are irrelevant. That's the point i am some others are making i believe. You can have a justification to do almost anything , it doesn't make it right.

So your justification for what you want is irrelevant?

[Quadrochosis]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

I am not saying you feel this way, but the people that is aimed at are the people who find joy in his death and suffering. Those who find joy in the death and suffering and humiliation of others can be said to not be human beings like me. The difference, you (and by that I mean the people who we're aiming this at) feel justified in how you feel, while having the belief that terrorists have no justification other than a desire to murder anyone. Which, is not true.

His justifications are irrelevant. That's the point i am some others are making i believe. You can have a justification to do almost anything , it doesn't make it right.

Doesn't that answer to the point about how we shouldn't kill any other humans- including Osama?

[tjanuranus]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

He was not a human just like me. We may bleed the same, but we are vastly different in how we treat other human beings who may have a different mindset.

I am not saying you feel this way, but the people that is aimed at are the people who find joy in his death and suffering. Those who find joy in the death and suffering and humiliation of others can be said to not be human beings like me. The difference, you (and by that I mean the people who we're aiming this at) feel justified in how you feel, while having the belief that terrorists have no justification other than a desire to murder anyone. Which, is not true.

His justifications are irrelevant. That's the point i am some others are making i believe. You can have a justification to do almost anything , it doesn't make it right.

Doesn't that answer to the point about how we shouldn't kill any other humans- including Osama?

No mass murdering people is wrong no matter WHAT side you are on. That's my point.

[ricky]

A link I think you guys will be interested in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256956

Almost every major nation in the world (Including Pakistan) has identified the death of Osama as a step towards peace, which I agree with.

Very infrequently do we see the rest of the world agreeing with us yanks on something, so obviously this is something significant. I just hope that this is a first step towards peace for us here in the states, as I for one am tired of conflict.

I just want to remind you guys that it is NOT islam that is responsible, it is the TERRORISTS that are. some people seem to be forgetting that.

[tjanuranus]

A link I think you guys will be interested in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256956

Almost every major nation in the world (Including Pakistan) has identified the death of Osama as a step towards peace, which I agree with.

Very infrequently do we see the rest of the world agreeing with us yanks on something, so obviously this is something significant. I just hope that this is a first step towards peace for us here in the states, as I for one am tired of conflict.

I just want to remind you guys that it is NOT islam that is responsible, it is the TERRORISTS that are. some people seem to be forgetting that.

No but religion gives crazy people an excuse to do horrible things. Always has. The sane people aren't terrorists of course, just like sane people aren't blowing up clinics and protesting soldiers funerals.

[Quadrochosis]

A link I think you guys will be interested in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256956

Almost every major nation in the world (Including Pakistan) has identified the death of Osama as a step towards peace, which I agree with.

Very infrequently do we see the rest of the world agreeing with us yanks on something, so obviously this is something significant. I just hope that this is a first step towards peace for us here in the states, as I for one am tired of conflict.

I just want to remind you guys that it is NOT islam that is responsible, it is the TERRORISTS that are. some people seem to be forgetting that.

Good post. I would also add that by letting our bloodthirsty revenge get the better of us (as manifested in the surge of jingoism in this country- not the removal of Osama) we have indeed let the terrorists win.

[Adami]

A link I think you guys will be interested in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256956

Almost every major nation in the world (Including Pakistan) has identified the death of Osama as a step towards peace, which I agree with.

Very infrequently do we see the rest of the world agreeing with us yanks on something, so obviously this is something significant. I just hope that this is a first step towards peace for us here in the states, as I for one am tired of conflict.

I just want to remind you guys that it is NOT islam that is responsible, it is the TERRORISTS that are. some people seem to be forgetting that.

No but religion gives crazy people an excuse to do horrible things. Always has. The sane people aren't terrorists of course, just like sane people aren't blowing up clinics and protesting soldiers funerals.

"crazy" people, as you call them, will always have an excuse to do horrible things, religion just happens to be there.

[bosk1]

Good post. I would also add that by letting our bloodthirsty revenge get the better of us (as manifested in the surge of jingoism in this country- not the removal of Osama) we have indeed let the terrorists win.

In the abstract, I agree with that.  However, as applied to the present situation, I don't believe that everybody who believes Bin Laden's death is a good thing are ncessarily coming from a perspective of bloodthirsty revenge.  In fact, I don't think that most are coming from that perspective at all. 

Also, we should be careful not to confuse nationalism or patriotism with jingoism.  The aren't necessarily the same thing.

[King Postwhore]

Adami.  Dead on.  Religion is just one of many crutches that delusional people contort for their own ambition.

[bosk1]

Which is exactly why I'm planning on starting my own cult some day.  I still just have to find a cool concept to base it around.

[tjanuranus]

A link I think you guys will be interested in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256956

Almost every major nation in the world (Including Pakistan) has identified the death of Osama as a step towards peace, which I agree with.

Very infrequently do we see the rest of the world agreeing with us yanks on something, so obviously this is something significant. I just hope that this is a first step towards peace for us here in the states, as I for one am tired of conflict.

I just want to remind you guys that it is NOT islam that is responsible, it is the TERRORISTS that are. some people seem to be forgetting that.

No but religion gives crazy people an excuse to do horrible things. Always has. The sane people aren't terrorists of course, just like sane people aren't blowing up clinics and protesting soldiers funerals.

"crazy" people, as you call them, will always have an excuse to do horrible things, religion just happens to be there.

True but the stuff that's in the religious books they study can be just as insane as they are, which leads to DOUBLE INSANITY.

[tjanuranus]

Which is exactly why I'm planning on starting my own cult some day.  I still just have to find a cool concept to base it around.

Beartrucci?

[King Postwhore]

Which is exactly why I'm planning on starting my own cult some day.  I still just have to find a cool concept to base it around.

Don't you already run one. *giggles*

[Quadrochosis]

Good post. I would also add that by letting our bloodthirsty revenge get the better of us (as manifested in the surge of jingoism in this country- not the removal of Osama) we have indeed let the terrorists win.

In the abstract, I agree with that.  However, as applied to the present situation, I don't believe that everybody who believes Bin Laden's death is a good thing are ncessarily coming from a perspective of bloodthirsty revenge.  In fact, I don't think that most are coming from that perspective at all. 

Also, we should be careful not to confuse nationalism or patriotism with jingoism.  The aren't necessarily the same thing.

I wasn't trying to say that everyone who is happy at Osama's death is happy due to bloodthirsty revenge. I should have elaborated a bit more.

As far as jingoism, I think that those that ARE jubilant over Osama's death due to blood thirst are also those exhibiting jingoism.

I should reiterate that at no point in my posts am I trying to convey that people that are relieved are at fault. I'm merely making observations about the more vocal Americans out there.

[tjanuranus]

this was posted by sigz in the other thread but it's so amazing that i'm porting it here cause it looks like the other thread is dead.

https://www.traffictetris.com/stupid-things-that-people-say-following-osama-bin-ladens-death/

WOW. But i laughed the hardest at this one. OMG..

[Implode]

Man, class has made me really behind in this thread.

Also, my last murder rebuddle was a general one, not specifically about Osama. At the same time, though, I wouldn't feel better saying, "Well he killed thousands, and I only killed one." You still killed, and I really don't want to get into quantifying the worth of specific human lives.

I'm just getting caught up in people wishing to desecrate the body or people who literally would've loved to shot him the head themselves. That's kind of scary.

Yeah, I think the more appropriate response to your post isn't how many people were killed in each scenario, but rather the fact that not all killing is murder.  Bin Laden was not murdered.

I agree. I'm not condemning the person who shot Osama, but to me, if someone wants to kill someone for malicious revenge, then it's pretty close to murder.

[lonestar]

Which is exactly why I'm planning on starting my own cult some day.  I still just have to find a cool concept to base it around.

Don't you already run one. *giggles*

Nice.

[tjanuranus]

Ok this is for the people who disagree with me... This is what a good friend of mine put on facebook. While i don't entirely agree i do think what he wrote is very intelligent and makes sense.

We think ourselves so beyond the Romans in the Colosseum but we offer the fruits of our labor and the children of our nation's poor for these wars. We are animals, hubris-filled hypocrites of the most fearful kind. I don't know how to feel good about death and destruction. It seems we disrespect ourselves by celebrating it.

[Quadrochosis]

We think ourselves so beyond the Romans in the Colosseum but we offer the fruits of our labor and the children of our nation's poor for these wars. We are animals, hubris-filled hypocrites of the most fearful kind. I don't know how to feel good about death and destruction. It seems we disrespect ourselves by celebrating it.

I really, really admire that post.

[bosk1]

So far, I think this thread is mostly going okay.  But I would highly recommend that before posting any further, that a few of you take a look at the last thing I posted in that thread and think about it before hitting the "post" button over here.

EDIT:  Well, okay, not the last post, because that's just silly.  But the one before that.

[Ben_Jamin]

TJ's friend has a good point, and is how I feel about this.

He was the leader of a cult, whom used the teachings of the Koran to justify his killings, In the name of god.

Way back before columbus, The conquistadors tried to kill all us Native Americans, by trying to force us to be like them in every way. They used the bible to justify that violence...Its sad how not many people from USA don't know that.

That's why I feel Osama was a rebel who felt his land was becoming something it wasn't meant to be. Except they messed with the wrong peoples. The difference is being human and forgiving, the people not the man.

[ricky]

TJ's friend has a good point, and is how I feel about this.

He was the leader of a cult, whom used the teachings of the Koran to justify his killings, In the name of god.

Way back before columbus, The conquistadors tried to kill all us Native Americans, by trying to force us to be like them in every way. They used the bible to justify that violence...Its sad how not many people from USA don't know that.

That's why I feel Osama was a rebel who felt his land was becoming something it wasn't meant to be. Except they messed with the wrong peoples. The difference is being human and forgiving, the people not the man.

like I said earlier to Implode, you make good points.

but to me, it sounds like you are almost defending Osama, a man who gave the word to kill 3,000 innocent people, which in turn started war that killed even more people. to me, there is no justification to that, religious or not.

[sonatafanica]

There's another side to this situation than the American one is pretty much what he's getting at I think, ricky.