Osama Bin Laden dead.

[King Postwhore]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

Implode, this isn't one on one frontier justice.  It's the military's job to do so.  Like I said before this one person is symbolizes much more than a guy that kills one on on.  He's so much more.

[Adami]

I just heard it on the radio, so I'll try and find a link.

but apparently when the SEALS infiltrated the compound, it was corroborated by a member of the squad that Osama used a woman as a human sheild.

what a pathetic excuse for a human being.

But we shouldnt celebrate killing him. He's "human" too.

Yes he was. And so was hitler. In fact it was hitler who so famously denounced others as less than human. We are all human, no person is beneath that. When we start declaring a person or persons as sub human, we enter a world without humanity.

[tjanuranus]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

There is a difference between someone who has committed murder and someone who is a mass murderer.

[Adami]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

There is a difference between someone who has committed murder and someone who is a mass murderer.

Yes. But both are human beings.

[Quadrochosis]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

There is a difference between someone who has committed murder and someone who is a mass murderer.

But they are all murders nonetheless, are they not?

[King Postwhore]

And I don't have a problem with murders getting the chair.

[sonatafanica]

in a way, aren't we all murderers








of love

[ricky]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

nah i understand your point, and it makes sense.

at least to me - if someone murders a family member of mine, and I kill them in retaliation, those are two totally different things. If he did it first, it's murder. What I did was a justifiable retaliation. Same thing with Osama bin Moron.

[Implode]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

Implode, this isn't one on one frontier justice.  It's the military's job to do so.  Like I said before this one person is symbolizes much more than a guy that kills one on on.  He's so much more.

Right. That's why the world is better off that he's now gone, and that's why celebration is expected. I understand that in war killing is unavoidable and expected. I'm not saying the military shouldn't have killed the man. This is a good victory.

Also, my last murder rebuddle was a general one, not specifically about Osama. At the same time, though, I wouldn't feel better saying, "Well he killed thousands, and I only killed one." You still killed, and I really don't want to get into quantifying the worth of specific human lives.

I'm just getting caught up in people wishing to desecrate the body or people who literally would've loved to shot him the head themselves. That's kind of scary.

[Compadre]

Osama Bin Laden was a coward, hiding out in a mansion/guarded-compound while the corrupted minds of impressionable Muslims concocted and carried out suicide attacks throughout the world.

Bin Laden was a hypocrite & deserves no respect other than as a human and as an extremely adept & resilient adversary to the U.S. & anyone else that stood in his way.

From my own studies in world theology, the Q'ran describes an "anti-christ" like figure who distorts the words of Mohammed & carries out false Jihad.  I think OBL is the closest the world has ever come to this person described in Islam's most holy book.

As I have said in an earlier page in this thread, psychological victories are just as devastating to the enemy & uplifting to the morale & resolve of the other side (in this case, the U.S.)

/ramble

[ricky]

Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?

Implode, this isn't one on one frontier justice.  It's the military's job to do so.  Like I said before this one person is symbolizes much more than a guy that kills one on on.  He's so much more.

Right. That's why the world is better off that he's now gone, and that's why celebration is expected. I understand that in war killing is unavoidable and expected. I'm not saying the military shouldn't have killed the man. This is a good victory.

Also, my last murder rebuddle was a general one, not specifically about Osama. At the same time, though, I wouldn't feel better saying, "Well he killed thousands, and I only killed one." You still killed, and I really don't want to get into quantifying the worth of specific human lives.

I'm just getting caught up in people wishing to desecrate the body or people who literally would've loved to shot him the head themselves. That's kind of scary.

yeah, you definitely made a good point in your original post. I think people are misconstruing that with sympathy for Osama, which totally isn't the case.

[Quadrochosis]

And I don't have a problem with murders getting the chair.

So should the marine/soldier/whatever that killed Osama bin Laden get the chair?

[bosk1]

Also, my last murder rebuddle was a general one, not specifically about Osama. At the same time, though, I wouldn't feel better saying, "Well he killed thousands, and I only killed one." You still killed, and I really don't want to get into quantifying the worth of specific human lives.

I'm just getting caught up in people wishing to desecrate the body or people who literally would've loved to shot him the head themselves. That's kind of scary.

Yeah, I think the more appropriate response to your post isn't how many people were killed in each scenario, but rather the fact that not all killing is murder.  Bin Laden was not murdered.

And I don't have a problem with murders getting the chair.

So should the marine/soldier/whatever that killed Osama bin Laden get the chair?

No.  Bin Laden was not murdered.

[Quadrochosis]

Care to elaborate?

[King Postwhore]

No what bosk said.

[MetalMike06]

What's sorta bothering me about all this now is just how much we realize Osama was in the back of our minds all these years. This is the guy that basically started this whole thing, masterminded it all. Yet, did it really take 100,000+ troops in the middle east to find and kill this guy? Is that why they're REALLY over there? No. A tiny seals team with coordinated intelligence did what we supposedly spent 10 years, thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars trying to achieve. So are any troops coming home now? Of course not - because there's other "interests". I know everybody's saying, "but the fight isn't over - we have to stop Al Qaeda!" But honestly, is that really gonna be achieved by occupying a couple select Islamic nations, much less will it even hinder rather than motivate their growth? Al Qaeda is in DOZENS of countries; they're not confined to borders.

I'm totally rambling on, but killing this guy should have been our main objective all along and now it's just being treated like a backdrop, as if "the fight isn't over." Will it ever be? What are even the objectives now?

[tjanuranus]

Bin Laden was exterminated. You don't call it murder when you kill a cock roach.

[Compadre]

Hell hath frozen over: https://tumblr.thedailywh.at/post/5136524655/frozen-hell-of-the-day-on-his-show-today-rush

Unity is something America has been lacking for quite some time.  It feels great to be American today.

[Adami]

Bin Laden was exterminated. You don't call it murder when you kill a cock roach.

This saddens me.

[unklejman]

Yeah he's dead, doesn't matter. I won't wish death on anyone, and he'll get what's coming. But that's not something to celebrate.

I'll celebrate when we get our noses out of the Mid-East, which I don't see happening soon.

I agree. At this point, it is isn't much more than an emotional feel good moment for some with vengeful desire. There is nothing strategic about it.

And didn't the U.S., the CIA in particular, create the monster to begin with?

The whole reason we are having these problems over there is because of our continuous medling with mid-eastern affairs. Bring the troops home, for the love of life.

How many have died in this pointless "war on terror?" More than were killed at the world trade center.

[bosk1]

Care to elaborate?

Okay.  As I said, by definition:

not all killing is murder.  

Murder is "the unlawful killing of a human being by another with malice aforethought."

The execution of Bin Laden was neither unlawful or done with malice.  (nor was it unjustified, for that matter)  

[Quadrochosis]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

[Quadrochosis]

Care to elaborate?

Okay.  As I said, by definition:

not all killing is murder. 

Murder is "the unlawful killing of a human being by another with malice aforethought."

The execution of Bin Laden was neither unlawful or done with malice.  (nor was it unjustified, for that matter) 

So because the USA said it was OK to kill him, it isn't murder?

It makes sense politically but I'd like to think that there are higher standards that humans as a species should at least respect.

[bosk1]

So because the USA said it was OK to kill him, it isn't murder?

No.  Because (1) he committed capital crimes and (2) was waging war against the USA, it isn't murder.  The USA merely "saying it is okay" has nothing to do with it.

It makes sense politically but I'd like to think that there are higher standards that humans as a species should at least respect.

Care to elaborate?

[tjanuranus]

The apparent lack of care for humanity in these threads is kind of messed up.

He's wasn't a good guy by any means, and he certainly had a lot to account for, but he was a human being just like you and me.

And the apparent lack of common sense among some people in this thread is also kind of messed up.

[bosk1]

Bin Laden was exterminated. You don't call it murder when you kill a cock roach.

You need to knock that off.  I give quite a bit of leeway for expressing different viewpoints in this forum, but you appear to be simply trying to fan the flames.  You need to tone it down.  That goes for your most recent post as well.

[tjanuranus]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people.

[Quadrochosis]

It makes sense politically but I'd like to think that there are higher standards that humans as a species should at least respect.

Care to elaborate?

I'd like to believe that there are at least some objective moral standards in this world. I would hope that not killing each other would be one of them.

As it stands, Osama's death is seen as justified to Americans, but as murder to people in Al Qaeda. In a relative world, neither side is wrong, and both are right.

As a Christian, wouldn't you be inclined to agree with me?

[tjanuranus]

Bin Laden was exterminated. You don't call it murder when you kill a cock roach.

You need to knock that off.  I give quite a bit of leeway for expressing different viewpoints in this forum, but you appear to be simply trying to fan the flames.  You need to tone it down.  That goes for your most recent post as well.

Not trying to flame, just trying to make a point like everyone else in here.

[bosk1]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people.

All valid points, but as in real life, on this forum it isn't just what you say, but how you say it.  It is the latter point that you are failing at.   But I'm not going to ask you again to tone it down.

[Quadrochosis]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people. Fuck him, and fuck everyone who tries to act like they are above everyone else because it's "wrong" to be happy about his death.

I don't even think you have his intentions down correctly. From my understanding, he had a distorted view of Islam and believed that it was his holy duty to kill (or lead to the killing) of non-Muslims. In his view, we were guilty.

Again, I bring up the relativist argument. If we don't hold ourselves to some sort of higher morality that trumps our own government, are we not on the same level as Osama?

[Adami]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people.

Ah, it seems you edited the insults out before I could quote you properly.

[tjanuranus]

The "he wasn't a good guy by any means" is so offensive i don't even know where to start. Ok here i'll try...

He was a FUCKING MASS MURDERING TERRORIST, who wanted nothing mare than to see millions of innocent humans dead. This is why they have been trying to obtain nuclear weaponry for a long time now. To kill millions of people. Fuck him, and fuck everyone who tries to act like they are above everyone else because it's "wrong" to be happy about his death.

I don't even think you have his intentions down correctly. From my understanding, he had a distorted view of Islam and believed that it was his holy duty to kill (or lead to the killing) of non-Muslims. In his view, we were guilty.

Again, I bring up the relativist argument. If we don't hold ourselves to some sort of higher morality that trumps our own government, are we not on the same level as Osama?

I never said that. I think we should hold ourselves more accountable than anyone. I disagree with the majority of the policies of this country.

[juice]

It makes sense politically but I'd like to think that there are higher standards that humans as a species should at least respect.

Care to elaborate?

I'd like to believe that there are at least some objective moral standards in this world. I would hope that not killing each other would be one of them.

As it stands, Osama's death is seen as justified to Americans, but as murder to people in Al Qaeda. In a relative world, neither side is wrong, and both are right.

As a Christian, wouldn't you be inclined to agree with me?

Nope.

[bosk1]

It makes sense politically but I'd like to think that there are higher standards that humans as a species should at least respect.

Care to elaborate?

I'd like to believe that there are at least some objective moral standards in this world. I would hope that not killing each other would be one of them.

As it stands, Osama's death is seen as justified to Americans, but as murder to people in Al Qaeda. In a relative world, neither side is wrong, and both are right.

As a Christian, wouldn't you be inclined to agree with me?

Agree about what part of your post?

That we should have a higher moral standard than the minimum our government sets out?  Yes.

That we shouldn't kill each other?  Mostly.  I would agree that we shouldn't murder.  But there are instances where killing is not murder and is justified.

That we look at Bin Laden's death differently than al quaeda?  Without question.

That both sides are right?  No, not at all.