Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden dead.  (Read 55121 times)

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Online Chino

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #175 on: May 02, 2011, 10:19:05 AM »
Quote
Was it worth all that?


It's hard to say, we don't know at this time. If us chasing him for the last decade prevented him from carrying out a mission to say detonate a suitcase nuke in NYC, then yes.

Offline Implode

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #176 on: May 02, 2011, 10:20:02 AM »

For the 3000 or so family members who lost loved ones.....yes.

That's sad.


Really?!  You don't think this at least brings closure to the family that lost loved ones on 9/11.  They were murdered, I bet no one that lost someone that day feels like you.
[/quote]

You're right. I guess I just wish it didn't take more murders to make people feel better.

And since it's starting to sound like I'm sad that he's dead, I'll clarify. Boy, am I glad he's out of the way.

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #177 on: May 02, 2011, 10:26:17 AM »
Quote
Was it worth all that?


It's hard to say, we don't know at this time. If us chasing him for the last decade prevented him from carrying out a mission to say detonate a suitcase nuke in NYC, then yes.

+1


and barto, it was a military operation, despite the fact that the CIA had command.
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Online Adami

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #178 on: May 02, 2011, 10:59:14 AM »
I know my viewpoint will mostly get glossed over here, but I figured I'd share it anyway.


As an Israeli, there is more than one person out there to blame all of the problems on for my people. It's not a faceless crowd as much as it is an entire organization of equally responsible murderers at times. And, often enough, those people get killed by Israeli troops. Their deaths are, on my part, never met with joy. They are seen as necessary casualties, yet casualties just the same. When a member of the Hamas is blown up, or a suicide bomber is killed before he is able to detonate, there is a sense of relief that those who wished to cause harm can no longer do so, but as human beings I find no joy in their deaths, despite their intentions or mindsets. I would prefer if none of them had to die, and I mourn the death of every Hamas or Al Aqsa or Islamic Jihad member, despite my viewing of their deaths as a necessary evil. It's an evil all the same, and evil is nothing to be celebrated.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #179 on: May 02, 2011, 11:02:01 AM »
I know my viewpoint will mostly get glossed over here, but I figured I'd share it anyway.


As an Israeli, there is more than one person out there to blame all of the problems on for my people. It's not a faceless crowd as much as it is an entire organization of equally responsible murderers at times. And, often enough, those people get killed by Israeli troops. Their deaths are, on my part, never met with joy. They are seen as necessary casualties, yet casualties just the same. When a member of the Hamas is blown up, or a suicide bomber is killed before he is able to detonate, there is a sense of relief that those who wished to cause harm can no longer do so, but as human beings I find no joy in their deaths, despite their intentions or mindsets. I would prefer if none of them had to die, and I mourn the death of every Hamas or Al Aqsa or Islamic Jihad member, despite my viewing of their deaths as a necessary evil. It's an evil all the same, and evil is nothing to be celebrated.

This, not to mention that martyrdom has an unfortunate hydra-like effect attached to it.
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #180 on: May 02, 2011, 11:02:11 AM »
I know my viewpoint will mostly get glossed over here, but I figured I'd share it anyway.


As an Israeli, there is more than one person out there to blame all of the problems on for my people. It's not a faceless crowd as much as it is an entire organization of equally responsible murderers at times. And, often enough, those people get killed by Israeli troops. Their deaths are, on my part, never met with joy. They are seen as necessary casualties, yet casualties just the same. When a member of the Hamas is blown up, or a suicide bomber is killed before he is able to detonate, there is a sense of relief that those who wished to cause harm can no longer do so, but as human beings I find no joy in their deaths, despite their intentions or mindsets. I would prefer if none of them had to die, and I mourn the death of every Hamas or Al Aqsa or Islamic Jihad member, despite my viewing of their deaths as a necessary evil. It's an evil all the same, and evil is nothing to be celebrated.

WOW!  best summation of a sensitive issue I have read in a long time!

thanks for saying what I wanted to so much better, adami

Online Chino

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #181 on: May 02, 2011, 11:02:44 AM »
I know my viewpoint will mostly get glossed over here, but I figured I'd share it anyway.


As an Israeli, there is more than one person out there to blame all of the problems on for my people. It's not a faceless crowd as much as it is an entire organization of equally responsible murderers at times. And, often enough, those people get killed by Israeli troops. Their deaths are, on my part, never met with joy. They are seen as necessary casualties, yet casualties just the same. When a member of the Hamas is blown up, or a suicide bomber is killed before he is able to detonate, there is a sense of relief that those who wished to cause harm can no longer do so, but as human beings I find no joy in their deaths, despite their intentions or mindsets. I would prefer if none of them had to die, and I mourn the death of every Hamas or Al Aqsa or Islamic Jihad member, despite my viewing of their deaths as a necessary evil. It's an evil all the same, and evil is nothing to be celebrated.

Good post. I agree with basically all of this. Sadly, as humans, it is impossible to live in peace. As much as it sucks, sometimes a death is required for the greater good. We have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #182 on: May 02, 2011, 11:03:27 AM »
For better or worse, war is population control.  Otherwise we'd be doing a much better job at killing the planet than we already are.
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #183 on: May 02, 2011, 11:17:06 AM »
Was hitler "human?" physically yes but every thing that a human is supposed to be he was not. The same goes for usama and many other psychopaths in history. People are just happy he's dead. Nothing more than that. I think after all that has gone on sine 911 the people deserve one night of jubilation.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #184 on: May 02, 2011, 11:18:17 AM »
Yeah, good post, Adami.  :tup

But as far as people trying to say what the celebrations are "really" about, how can you?  You can maybe say what you think they should be about, or what they are about for some people that you know.  But beyond that, you can't say what they are about simply because there are lots of people celebrating lots of different things in all of this.  You have people out there celebrating out of a sense of relief, some celebrating out of a send of justice, some out of a sense of revenge, some celebrating because they are racist and just glad another Arab is dead, some because they just think it is the right thing to do for any number of misplaced reasons.  I really don't think anyone can say that people are celebrating for a particular reason, or even a particular set of reasons. 
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Offline Tick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #185 on: May 02, 2011, 11:21:26 AM »
I know my viewpoint will mostly get glossed over here, but I figured I'd share it anyway.


As an Israeli, there is more than one person out there to blame all of the problems on for my people. It's not a faceless crowd as much as it is an entire organization of equally responsible murderers at times. And, often enough, those people get killed by Israeli troops. Their deaths are, on my part, never met with joy. They are seen as necessary casualties, yet casualties just the same. When a member of the Hamas is blown up, or a suicide bomber is killed before he is able to detonate, there is a sense of relief that those who wished to cause harm can no longer do so, but as human beings I find no joy in their deaths, despite their intentions or mindsets. I would prefer if none of them had to die, and I mourn the death of every Hamas or Al Aqsa or Islamic Jihad member, despite my viewing of their deaths as a necessary evil. It's an evil all the same, and evil is nothing to be celebrated.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #186 on: May 02, 2011, 11:22:52 AM »
Was hitler "human?" physically yes but every thing that a human is supposed to be he was not. The same goes for usama and many other psychopaths in history. People are just happy he's dead. Nothing more than that. I think after all that has gone on sine 911 the people deserve one night of jubilation.

Unfortunately I don't think that's true.  Rather the opposite, I think he embodied everything that can be described as the dark side of humanity.  Hitler singlehandedly demonstrated that humanity as a whole is capable of committing some truly evil things.

On that note, even though the loss of 3000 lives is a horrible thing, you can't ever hope to compare that to the hundred million or so that Hitler killed, either directly through his concentration camps and torture programs, or the war he started.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #187 on: May 02, 2011, 11:25:09 AM »
Yeah, good post, Adami.  :tup

But as far as people trying to say what the celebrations are "really" about, how can you?  You can maybe say what you think they should be about, or what they are about for some people that you know.  But beyond that, you can't say what they are about simply because there are lots of people celebrating lots of different things in all of this.  You have people out there celebrating out of a sense of relief, some celebrating out of a send of justice, some out of a sense of revenge, some celebrating because they are racist and just glad another Arab is dead, some because they just think it is the right thing to do for any number of misplaced reasons.  I really don't think anyone can say that people are celebrating for a particular reason, or even a particular set of reasons. 
Very wise words, Bosk.
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #188 on: May 02, 2011, 11:29:14 AM »
Was hitler "human?" physically yes but every thing that a human is supposed to be he was not. The same goes for usama and many other psychopaths in history. People are just happy he's dead. Nothing more than that. I think after all that has gone on sine 911 the people deserve one night of jubilation.

Unfortunately I don't think that's true.  Rather the opposite, I think he embodied everything that can be described as the dark side of humanity.  Hitler singlehandedly demonstrated that humanity as a whole is capable of committing some truly evil things.

On that note, even though the loss of 3000 lives is a horrible thing, you can't ever hope to compare that to the hundred million or so that Hitler killed, either directly through his concentration camps and torture programs, or the war he started.

I'm not comparing the scope I'm comparing the insanity of the two. And if bin laden had has way a lot more people would have been dead over the years not just 3000 and he's responsible for more than just 911. In the words of the great Sam Jackson " yes he deserved to die and I hope he burns in he'll!"

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #189 on: May 02, 2011, 11:33:16 AM »
Yeah he's dead, doesn't matter. I won't wish death on anyone, and he'll get what's coming. But that's not something to celebrate.

I'll celebrate when we get our noses out of the Mid-East, which I don't see happening soon.
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #190 on: May 02, 2011, 11:36:02 AM »
Yeah he's dead, doesn't matter. I won't wish death on anyone, and he'll get what's coming. But that's not something to celebrate.

I'll celebrate when we get our noses out of the Mid-East, which I don't see happening soon.

It matters to a lot of people. A lot.

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #191 on: May 02, 2011, 11:36:58 AM »
Good lord there are so many people saying this isn't something to celebrate that I don't know what to say.

Of course this is something to celebrate. It's the first huge accomplishment directly related to 9/11 in a LONG time. Why wouldn't people celebrate it?!

And the victims of 9/11 families would like to talk to you if you think that celebrating his death is over-the-top

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #192 on: May 02, 2011, 11:38:04 AM »
I just heard it on the radio, so I'll try and find a link.

but apparently when the SEALS infiltrated the compound, it was corroborated by a member of the squad that Osama used a woman as a human sheild.

what a pathetic excuse for a human being.
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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #193 on: May 02, 2011, 11:42:28 AM »
I just heard it on the radio, so I'll try and find a link.

but apparently when the SEALS infiltrated the compound, it was corroborated by a member of the squad that Osama used a woman as a human sheild.

what a pathetic excuse for a human being.

But we shouldnt celebrate killing him. He's "human" too. :rollin

Offline j

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #194 on: May 02, 2011, 11:48:05 AM »
And the victims of 9/11 families would like to talk to you if you think that celebrating his death is over-the-top

Probably so, but this is the same logic some people use to defend the death penalty.

I mean if anybody deserves death, Osama probably does, but I personally don't feel right celebrating the death of ANYONE, no matter how despicable they were.  It's just not something to take lightly, and I think people lose sight of it for many reasons.

-J

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #195 on: May 02, 2011, 11:51:18 AM »
I found the link.

directly from the BBC:

"The officials described the operation as a "surgical raid" and said three adult males, including Bin Laden's adult son. But, they added, a woman who was being used as a shield was also killed."

link - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330

it seriously pisses me off how much of a scumbag that man was.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #196 on: May 02, 2011, 12:00:36 PM »
And the victims of 9/11 families would like to talk to you if you think that celebrating his death is over-the-top

Probably so, but this is the same logic some people use to defend the death penalty.

I mean if anybody deserves death, Osama probably does, but I personally don't feel right celebrating the death of ANYONE, no matter how despicable they were.  It's just not something to take lightly, and I think people lose sight of it for many reasons.

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Offline tjanuranus

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #197 on: May 02, 2011, 12:02:58 PM »
And the victims of 9/11 families would like to talk to you if you think that celebrating his death is over-the-top

Probably so, but this is the same logic some people use to defend the death penalty.

I mean if anybody deserves death, Osama probably does, but I personally don't feel right celebrating the death of ANYONE, no matter how despicable they were.  It's just not something to take lightly, and I think people lose sight of it for many reasons.

-J

Difference in outlook i guess. I think there are WAY to many people in the world already and people just keep making more without thinking of the consequences of their actions. Have one kid? sure. Have two... ok if you can afford. Have 8? Die in a fire. Have 4 and you're on wealthfare... Kill yourself and do us all a favor. I'm married and would like to have a kid someday but i'm working and still in school trying to get my degree so i can make more money. Until that happens i can't afford a kid and especially not multiple ones. Also i think it's SICK how many orphans there are and yet people are having 6 natural kids and no one will adopt.

So yeah, so when a piece of shit murderous asshole dies it's better for everyone on multiple levels. I don't want the average person to die of course but people like him, kill em all. Now to prove that i am extremely liberal i think the people that are responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent iraqi lives, because of a blatantly perpetuated lie, should be brought to justice, just as Osama was.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #198 on: May 02, 2011, 12:05:03 PM »
Good lord there are so many people saying this isn't something to celebrate that I don't know what to say.

Of course this is something to celebrate. It's the first huge accomplishment directly related to 9/11 in a LONG time. Why wouldn't people celebrate it?!

And the victims of 9/11 families would like to talk to you if you think that celebrating his death is over-the-top

Well, for one thing, his death came about 10 years too late.  His end would've had more significance had it been carried out sooner by those who promised it.  Secondly, his end doesn't mean the end of terrorism.  His influence is still very much alive.  Now, had they found a way to eliminate him and his followers in order to prevent 9/11, that would've been something worth celebrating.  All I said when I found out was, "it's about goddamn time, not that it really means much anymore."
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Online Chino

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #199 on: May 02, 2011, 12:10:33 PM »
What happens to his body once we are done with it?

Offline Tick

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #200 on: May 02, 2011, 12:13:55 PM »
What happens to his body once we are done with it?
Dude, we are done with it. He was tossed in the ocean and has probably been eaten by sharks.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #201 on: May 02, 2011, 12:14:11 PM »
I see this as a Hydra. Chop of the main head and more will take its place.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #202 on: May 02, 2011, 12:19:03 PM »
Was hitler "human?" physically yes but every thing that a human is supposed to be he was not.

The worst part one can do is to dehumanize Hitler, because that removes him from the pool of humans he came from, and the realization that there is a small Hitler in all of us.
If you read anything about Hitler, he was actually exceedingly kind and courteous to the people around him. It is that exact dichotomy that should give us pause. Demonizing Hitler into this "superhuman" evil being might make you sleep better at night, but it also clears the field for the next one.

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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #203 on: May 02, 2011, 12:20:00 PM »
What happens to his body once we are done with it?

He was given a burial at sea in traditional Islamic fashion. At least the military had some class about it. It could have been a lot worse.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #204 on: May 02, 2011, 12:21:39 PM »
I know my viewpoint will mostly get glossed over here, but I figured I'd share it anyway.


As an Israeli, there is more than one person out there to blame all of the problems on for my people. It's not a faceless crowd as much as it is an entire organization of equally responsible murderers at times. And, often enough, those people get killed by Israeli troops. Their deaths are, on my part, never met with joy. They are seen as necessary casualties, yet casualties just the same. When a member of the Hamas is blown up, or a suicide bomber is killed before he is able to detonate, there is a sense of relief that those who wished to cause harm can no longer do so, but as human beings I find no joy in their deaths, despite their intentions or mindsets. I would prefer if none of them had to die, and I mourn the death of every Hamas or Al Aqsa or Islamic Jihad member, despite my viewing of their deaths as a necessary evil. It's an evil all the same, and evil is nothing to be celebrated.

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #205 on: May 02, 2011, 12:23:18 PM »
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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #206 on: May 02, 2011, 12:23:34 PM »
What happens to his body once we are done with it?

He was given a burial at sea in traditional Islamic fashion. At least the military had some class about it. It could have been a lot worse.

I would have ground him up, mixed him with concrete,  then make the sidewalk at the entry way to the freedom tower out of him.

Offline j

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #207 on: May 02, 2011, 12:23:49 PM »
And the victims of 9/11 families would like to talk to you if you think that celebrating his death is over-the-top

Probably so, but this is the same logic some people use to defend the death penalty.

I mean if anybody deserves death, Osama probably does, but I personally don't feel right celebrating the death of ANYONE, no matter how despicable they were.  It's just not something to take lightly, and I think people lose sight of it for many reasons.

-J

Difference in outlook i guess. I think there are WAY to many people in the world already and people just keep making more without thinking of the consequences of their actions. Have one kid? sure. Have two... ok if you can afford. Have 8? Die in a fire. Have 4 and you're on wealthfare... Kill yourself and do us all a favor. I'm married and would like to have a kid someday but i'm working and still in school trying to get my degree so i can make more money. Until that happens i can't afford a kid and especially not multiple ones. Also i think it's SICK how many orphans there are and yet people are having 6 natural kids and no one will adopt.

So yeah, so when a piece of shit murderous asshole dies it's better for everyone on multiple levels. I don't want the average person to die of course but people like him, kill em all. Now to prove that i am extremely liberal i think the people that are responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent iraqi lives, because of a blatantly perpetuated lie, should be brought to justice, just as Osama was.

Those are all real problems, but overpopulation is not a justification to get excited about someone's death IMO.  I mean it's not like I'm devastated about the death of a fanatical mass murderer, but I do think that a life has an innate value.

I personally think, Bosk said it best in regards to the whole celebration issue a few posts back.

I agree, those are good points.  But I'm not judging anybody individually, just thinking out loud.

-J

Offline ricky

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #208 on: May 02, 2011, 12:27:58 PM »
What happens to his body once we are done with it?

He was given a burial at sea in traditional Islamic fashion. At least the military had some class about it. It could have been a lot worse.


yeah, i heard they were planning on doing something like that.

I think it was more for a PR reason though, not so much that they cared about him.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Osama Bin Laden dead.
« Reply #209 on: May 02, 2011, 12:28:44 PM »
Just to clarify again, I'm not against the celebration in general. That's fine.

But if you would murder a murderer, what makes you better than him? The fact the he murdered first?