Osama Bin Laden dead.

[Perpetual Change]

Unbridled Euphoria is a good description. It really shouldn't accompany bloodshed of any kind.

[7StringedBeast]

So I guess the rebel alliance shouldn't have celebrated when they blew up the death star?  Just sayin'.

The broad generalizations being made here are really sad.  That anyone celebrating is a dumb American who can't see the war isn't over, or are people with problems are such lame statements made by people behind a computer screen trying to 1 up everyone on the morality scale.  But its still way off base anyways.  It's the celebration of the end of one of our missions against terrorism.  It's not just a victory for the US, but for anyone against terrorism everywhere in the world.  Bringing the #1 most wanted guy in the world for us to justice after 10 long years is worthy of some celebration.  Be cynical all you want, but let the people who it matters to have a day of relief and celebration that the fucker is dead.

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

[Super Dude]

So I guess the rebel alliance shouldn't have celebrated when they blew up the death star?  Just sayin'.

The broad generalizations being made here are really sad.  That anyone celebrating is a dumb American who can't see the war isn't over, or are people with problems are such lame statements made by people behind a computer screen trying to 1 up everyone on the morality scale.  But its still way off base anyways.  It's the celebration of the end of one of our missions against terrorism.  It's not just a victory for the US, but for anyone against terrorism everywhere in the world.  Bringing the #1 most wanted guy in the world for us to justice after 10 long years is worthy of some celebration.  Be cynical all you want, but let the people who it matters to have a day of relief and celebration that the fucker is dead.

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

That's only slightly different, mainly because that's a fictional event.

But to be serious that series itself disturbs me, because the SW universe is in some ways tyrannical.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I think that what is happening in a lot of situations here is that humans are, like they always do, just looking for a reason to celebrate and go bat-shit crazy. I agree with SD and PC and 'goon that unbridled euphoria probably shouldn't accompany bloodshed of any kind, but then again I might just be a bleeding heart.

That being said (I hate it when people say this, and here I am...) I agree with 7 String that calling those people dumb or trying to 1-up them on the morality scale is kind of silly. There is reason to celebrate here. I think it's going a little overboard, but I understand it.

[ShadowWalker]

All I can find is that it was a CIA job.  No other details.  

Not surprising if it was the CIA.  Bush's biggest blunder in the whole Afghanistan mess was taking it away from George Tenet and the CIA and giving it to Rumsfeld's DoD.  

As for it's effect on AQ, it doesn't seem like the dude's been very active.  He's probably much better off to al Qada as a martyr than a retired spokesman.  

it wasn't a CIA job, I can guarantee you that. it was a purely military operation. i also find it very interesting that this happened during obama's term, and not bush's.

Heard on the news this morning that IT WAS a CIA job, using Navy Seals on loan to the intelligence agency...

[El Barto]

All I can find is that it was a CIA job.  No other details.  

Not surprising if it was the CIA.  Bush's biggest blunder in the whole Afghanistan mess was taking it away from George Tenet and the CIA and giving it to Rumsfeld's DoD.  

As for it's effect on AQ, it doesn't seem like the dude's been very active.  He's probably much better off to al Qada as a martyr than a retired spokesman.  

it wasn't a CIA job, I can guarantee you that. it was a purely military operation. i also find it very interesting that this happened during obama's term, and not bush's.

According to FOX it was a SEAL team under command of the CIA, who'd done the intel over the last year.  That qualifies as a CIA job.

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

In a sense, I agree with you.  There's nothing wrong with being happy about a significant milestone.  However, if you don't seem to give a shit about the corresponding loss of life, then you tend to look just like the people everybody criticized who celebrated the milestone that was 911. 

edit:  ninja'd by ShadowWalker

[Tick]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

[ehra]

So I guess the rebel alliance shouldn't have celebrated when they blew up the death star?  Just sayin'.

Weren't there millions of innocent civilians on board when the Death Star blew up?

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

Can we just drag the guy through the streets of New York City, anyone can take a shot.

Or we could do a national tour so all of us can piss on him.

This alone sure doesn't sound like mere "celebrating a victory against terrorism everywhere in the world," and and this is from our own forums where people tend to be more reasonable.

[Perpetual Change]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

I think the real issue here will be to see how relations between the US and Pakistan pan out. Will be very interested to see that.

[ShadowWalker]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

Do you really think the US Government didn't keep any souveniers from the capture to disprove the doubters later on?

[King Postwhore]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

I think they will release pictures just like they did with Saddam Hussein.  There's a necessity for the government to do so to quell all.

I think the real issue here will be to see how relations between the US and Pakistan pan out. Will be very interested to see that.

Amen to this.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm just gonna post here to make sure that we're drawing a line between "being happy" and even "celebrating" and "publicly televised corpse mutilation."

[El Barto]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

They almost certainly filmed the funeral, plus you've got DNA and lots of gory pictures.  But yeah,  it will definitely lead to more conspiracies.  I can understand wanting to honor Islamic traditions, but this is one of those cases where it really won't matter.  His followers won't be assuaged by a tasteful funeral.  That said, the people who want to believe this is a scam wouldn't be swayed by holding onto the body, either.  I guess if there is no good solution, you just do the honorable thing.

[ehra]

I'm just gonna post here to make sure that we're drawing a line between "being happy" and even "celebrating" and "publicly televised corpse mutilation."

Yep.

[lateralus88]

Spoiler alert - Osama was really Bush the whole time.



/conspiracy

[7StringedBeast]

All I can find is that it was a CIA job.  No other details.  

Not surprising if it was the CIA.  Bush's biggest blunder in the whole Afghanistan mess was taking it away from George Tenet and the CIA and giving it to Rumsfeld's DoD.  

As for it's effect on AQ, it doesn't seem like the dude's been very active.  He's probably much better off to al Qada as a martyr than a retired spokesman.  

it wasn't a CIA job, I can guarantee you that. it was a purely military operation. i also find it very interesting that this happened during obama's term, and not bush's.

According to FOX it was a SEAL team under command of the CIA, who'd done the intel over the last year.  That qualifies as a CIA job.

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

In a sense, I agree with you.  There's nothing wrong with being happy about a significant milestone.  However, if you don't seem to give a shit about the corresponding loss of life, then you tend to look just like the people everybody criticized who celebrated the milestone that was 911. 

edit:  ninja'd by ShadowWalker

Why the hell would I care about Osama Bin Laden's life?  Why would I even feel any kind of remorse or sadness that the rat is dead.  This logic makes no sense.  3,000 innocents and 1 fucking mass murderer dirtbag do not equate.  Let it fucking go already.

[Tick]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

Do you really think the US Government didn't keep any souveniers from the capture to disprove the doubters later on?

I am hoping they did.

[Perpetual Change]

They're waiting for Trump to call "conspiracy" so they can release it a day later and give him a reason to pat himself on the back again 

[7StringedBeast]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

Do you really think the US Government didn't keep any souveniers from the capture to disprove the doubters later on?

I am hoping they did.

They have pictures and DNA evidence.  The fact that they announced his death on this kind of scale, 10 years later, means they got him without any doubt.  If they wanted to fake this shit, they coulda done it years ago.  This is the real deal.  No doubt about it.

[Super Dude]

All I can find is that it was a CIA job.  No other details.  

Not surprising if it was the CIA.  Bush's biggest blunder in the whole Afghanistan mess was taking it away from George Tenet and the CIA and giving it to Rumsfeld's DoD.  

As for it's effect on AQ, it doesn't seem like the dude's been very active.  He's probably much better off to al Qada as a martyr than a retired spokesman.  

it wasn't a CIA job, I can guarantee you that. it was a purely military operation. i also find it very interesting that this happened during obama's term, and not bush's.

According to FOX it was a SEAL team under command of the CIA, who'd done the intel over the last year.  That qualifies as a CIA job.

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

In a sense, I agree with you.  There's nothing wrong with being happy about a significant milestone.  However, if you don't seem to give a shit about the corresponding loss of life, then you tend to look just like the people everybody criticized who celebrated the milestone that was 911.  

edit:  ninja'd by ShadowWalker

Why the hell would I care about Osama Bin Laden's life?  Why would I even feel any kind of remorse or sadness that the rat is dead.  This logic makes no sense.  3,000 innocents and 1 fucking mass murderer dirtbag do not equate.  Let it fucking go already.

Well I think the point is not that it's a thing of numbers so much as this:

So I guess the rebel alliance shouldn't have celebrated when they blew up the death star?  Just sayin'.

Weren't there millions of innocent civilians on board when the Death Star blew up?

Nothing about being happy this happened is wrong.

Can we just drag the guy through the streets of New York City, anyone can take a shot.

Or we could do a national tour so all of us can piss on him.

This alone sure doesn't sound like mere "celebrating a victory against terrorism everywhere in the world," and and this is from our own forums where people tend to be more reasonable.

And this:

I'm just gonna post here to make sure that we're drawing a line between "being happy" and even "celebrating" and "publicly televised corpse mutilation."

Basically I think the issue is the fine line between celebrating that we've finally killed someone who is a menace to America and the world at large, and celebrating that finally we can have some peace of mind... versus a bloodthirsty parade that's no less dehumanizing of its perps than the one it's targeted at.

[Tick]

Who is ready for the next stage in all of this. The fact that Bin Laden's body is already buried opens up a can of worms for thousands of conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I don't see how anyone could think disposing of his body leaving no evidence was good good idea?
Am I wrong in saying there is no real evidence of his actual death?

Do you really think the US Government didn't keep any souveniers from the capture to disprove the doubters later on?

I am hoping they did.

They have pictures and DNA evidence.  The fact that they announced his death on this kind of scale, 10 years later, means they got him without any doubt.  If they wanted to fake this shit, they coulda done it years ago.  This is the real deal.  No doubt about it.

I'm not saying I don't agree. I'm saying I hope they were smart enough to do things the right way in the end, that's all.

[El Barto]

Why the hell would I care about Osama Bin Laden's life?  Why would I even feel any kind of remorse or sadness that the rat is dead.  This logic makes no sense.  3,000 innocents and 1 fucking mass murderer dirtbag do not equate.  Let it fucking go already.

I don't really give a shit one way or the other about this, so I don't have anything to "let fucking go." 

I also try not to get into the business of comparing quantity or quality of human lives.  In situations like this, I like to think about the Amish.  When some asshole decided to kill a bunch of young girls because the cops showed up before he could screw them, the Amish community mourned him along with their children.  From their standpoint, he didn't ask to be fucked up, he just was.  And his family certainly didn't ask for things to turn out the way they did, they were victims as well.  This is an amazing perspective.  And in contrast to the majority of Americans who see the death of a badguy as a joyous occasion, quite honorable, IMO.  Shame there aren't more people like them.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Also, if our government is wrong about this, you'd likely already have seen a video of OBL reading the headlines from an American newspaper to make us look like idiots.

[ReaPsTA]

I can understand wanting to honor Islamic traditions, but this is one of those cases where it really won't matter.  His followers won't be assuaged by a tasteful funeral.

I don't think it was about his followers.  A major component of what we do in the Middle East is trying to tell people through our actions as much as possible "We aren't at war with the Islamic religion or your people.  And we aren't trying to dishonor you in a religious way."

What I sorta think we should have done was to coat his body in pig fat and alcohol and burned it.  That would have sent a powerful message.  But the downside of doing so is that you tell everyone we aren't directly fighting against that we're in the business of religious desecration.  Quite a few Muslims in the Middle East probably would have thought "we don't think Osama is a great guy, but he didn't deserve THAT" and we would have looked bad.

Also, if our government is wrong about this, you'd likely already have seen a video of OBL reading the headlines from an American newspaper to make us look like idiots.

Yeah.  A bunch of other terrorist leaders have already publicly said it happened.  I think we actually did pull this off.

[Tick]

Why the hell would I care about Osama Bin Laden's life?  Why would I even feel any kind of remorse or sadness that the rat is dead.  This logic makes no sense.  3,000 innocents and 1 fucking mass murderer dirtbag do not equate.  Let it fucking go already.

I don't really give a shit one way or the other about this, so I don't have anything to "let fucking go." 

I also try not to get into the business of comparing quantity or quality of human lives.  In situations like this, I like to think about the Amish.  When some asshole decided to kill a bunch of young girls because the cops showed up before he could screw them, the Amish community mourned him along with their children.  From their standpoint, he didn't ask to be fucked up, he just was.  And his family certainly didn't ask for things to turn out the way they did, they were victims as well.  This is an amazing perspective.  And in contrast to the majority of Americans who see the death of a badguy as a joyous occasion, quite honorable, IMO.  Shame there aren't more people like them.

To each his own. It is an admirable quality to forgive on that level, but I myself am quite happy he is dead.

[rumborak]

It is absolutely without question that this was one was pulled off, seriously.

rumborak

[Implode]

Oh, I'm not saying I'm not happy about all of this. I'm happy we finally got him. But is nationally publicized corpse violation going to help anyone get over the loss of loved ones?

For the 3000 or so family members who lost loved ones.....yes.

That's sad.

it's simple really. If you kill hundreds, thousands, or millions of innocent people you are no longer human, you have become a monster and monsters should be killed and celebrated when dead. Not very complicated at all to me.

Osama may be deranged or even insane, but he's still human. Dehumanizing humans hasnt ever been. a good thing. All it ever gave us was an excuse for genocide.

[rumborak]

Why the hell would I care about Osama Bin Laden's life?  Why would I even feel any kind of remorse or sadness that the rat is dead.  This logic makes no sense.  3,000 innocents and 1 fucking mass murderer dirtbag do not equate.  Let it fucking go already.

I don't really give a shit one way or the other about this, so I don't have anything to "let fucking go." 

I also try not to get into the business of comparing quantity or quality of human lives.  In situations like this, I like to think about the Amish.  When some asshole decided to kill a bunch of young girls because the cops showed up before he could screw them, the Amish community mourned him along with their children.  From their standpoint, he didn't ask to be fucked up, he just was.  And his family certainly didn't ask for things to turn out the way they did, they were victims as well.  This is an amazing perspective.  And in contrast to the majority of Americans who see the death of a badguy as a joyous occasion, quite honorable, IMO.  Shame there aren't more people like them.

To each his own. It is an admirable quality to forgive on that level, but I myself am quite happy he is dead.

I hate to bring this up, but shouldn't the Christians be the first to point out the caveat of "sad we had to kill, but it was necessary"? It always seems to me the most blood-thirsty ones coincide with the religious ones. Can the NT just be switched off when convenient?

rumborak

[zerogravityfat]

I'm glad they finally declared Osama dead but he was a figure head anyway. Zawahiri is the one they have to kill.

[Chino]

On the way to work this morning, the radio played a clip of all the people outside the whitehouse last night breaking out into the national anthem. It brought a tear to my eye.

[King Postwhore]

For the 3000 or so family members who lost loved ones.....yes.

That's sad.

[/quote]

Really?!  You don't think this at least brings closure to the family that lost loved ones on 9/11.  They were murdered, I bet no one that lost someone that day feels like you.

[bosk1]

Why the hell would I care about Osama Bin Laden's life?  Why would I even feel any kind of remorse or sadness that the rat is dead.  This logic makes no sense.  3,000 innocents and 1 fucking mass murderer dirtbag do not equate.  Let it fucking go already.

I don't really give a shit one way or the other about this, so I don't have anything to "let fucking go."  

I also try not to get into the business of comparing quantity or quality of human lives.  In situations like this, I like to think about the Amish.  When some asshole decided to kill a bunch of young girls because the cops showed up before he could screw them, the Amish community mourned him along with their children.  From their standpoint, he didn't ask to be fucked up, he just was.  And his family certainly didn't ask for things to turn out the way they did, they were victims as well.  This is an amazing perspective.  And in contrast to the majority of Americans who see the death of a badguy as a joyous occasion, quite honorable, IMO.  Shame there aren't more people like them.

I like that perspective.  And yet, at the same time, when justice demands a certain outcome, such as the murderer forfeiting his life, there is also a "goodness" or "rightness" about that justice being carried out, IMO.  Any loss of life, including that of the murderer, is regrettable.  It is sad.  It is sobering.  And, yet, it is also satisfying because justice is being done.  Honestly, I'm not sure exactly how I or anyone else is supposed to feel.  I think plenty out there are attempting to grabble with it in their own way and acknowledge the comlexity of what has happened and the complexity of potential emotions and responses that one feels in response to it.  I honestly don't know that there is a right way to feel or react, and if there is, I surely haven't figured it out.  Lots more to say, but I guess I'll just leave it at that.

[Super Dude]

I think the only really disturbing thing about it is the tar-and-feather mentality that seems to be following on its path.  He was executed as a mass murderer should be and now it should be done.

[Chino]

I think that the joy of America today is not just over the fact the Osama has been killed. I honestly think most Americans are just really happy with the fact that our military finally concluded a mission that many thought would never be finished. A mission that cost hundreds of lives and billions of dollars. I think it's a sigh of relief for most, knowing that our money and time wasn't pissed away, and a slight sense of secuirty has been reestablished.

[antigoon]

Was it worth all that?