Church "family"

[AndyDT]

I picked up a dating book after getting home from a night out and it recommends "don't date in a vacuum". It's a christian book and they keep saying "use your support group" for advice, to see reality where you might be seeing fantasy, provide perspective etc.  It says "you're in great danger" if you don't.

 I imagine a lot of people when they date ask their brothers or sisters or best buddy for advice, encouragement. Others have mentors (and that's a success *secret* which you have to actively search out).

I don't feel I can ask my family for reasons I've given before. Also I mentioned to a church group before that I was dating somebody and didn't regret it because I was testing the idea but this is what happened:

- I got persistent "funny looks" from one woman for weeks after
- One guy said "the church doesn't approve of non-christians" although didn't really intrude but he gives controlling/manipulative/pulling-strings parental-style vibes
- Another guy approached me a couple of weeks later while he was with his girlfriend and started asking intrusive questions l like "what do you do in your spare time?", "when was the last time you went away?" (he'd just been skiing abroad). This was way too much and I had to set a boundary. Basically I avoid him as much as practical. But he's somebody who has dated successfully at church and as far as I know doesn't  have his life dominated by others, yet is comfortable with setting about to victimise others in this way.

On the one hand you're meant to disclose information to get support and develop friendships but on the other you should always retain privacy or the right to privacy.

I've spoken to women and they often say they talk to their mother or sister for advice and "it's different for women" or something like that. But even they usually wouldn't tell everything to their mother/sister would they?

This book was saying share it all - go on dates with your church family, bring your date along to meet them. For me that would be a nightmare. I don't buy into this "church family" thing. Christians are people like anybody else and if you let them they will dominate your life. I've had somebody dominate my life and it's a living hell. But that's your responsibility not theirs to stop it from happening.

So what's the solution? My feeling is to just keep a fairly trusted confidante in the picutre with minimal information like "I'm seeing some woman and I went on a date with her this week". But if they start probing, you've either got to put distance between you, give a vague answer, refuse etc or a combination.

[lordxizor]

asking intrusive questions l like "what do you do in your spare time?", "when was the last time you went away?"

I'm sorry man, but if you think these questions are intrusive, you are never going to have any real friends that you could ask questions about your relationships. It sounds to me like these people are aquaintences that are trying to get you to open up so you can be legitimate friends. If you're not willing to do that, you can't expect much in return. Asking what you like to do is basically the most generic get-to-know-you type of question a person can ask. If you're unwilling to answer it, I think you need to do some self reflection (or talk to a therapist) about why you're so closed off and unwilling to let people get to know you.

[rumborak]

- One guy said "the church doesn't approve of non-christians" although didn't really intrude but he gives controlling/manipulative/pulling-strings parental-style vibes

You know, given the hodgepodge of Tao + Christian + watchamacallit views on life you have, I can kinda see how you would stick out like a sore thumb in a purely Christian congregation.
I mean, I don't know what exact denomination the church is that you go to, but did you at least choose one that is super-liberal?

rumborak

[eric42434224]

Another dating thread from Andy.

[AndyDT]

asking intrusive questions l like "what do you do in your spare time?", "when was the last time you went away?"

I'm sorry man, but if you think these questions are intrusive, you are never going to have any real friends that you could ask questions about your relationships. It sounds to me like these people are aquaintences that are trying to get you to open up so you can be legitimate friends. If you're not willing to do that, you can't expect much in return. Asking what you like to do is basically the most generic get-to-know-you type of question a person can ask. If you're unwilling to answer it, I think you need to do some self reflection (or talk to a therapist) about why you're so closed off and unwilling to let people get to know you.

I did answer it but look, anybody else asks "what have you done this weekend?", "are you going on holiday this summer?" etc. These were seeking generalised responses as if to say "aha - you have no friends and you never go away outside of here." Not true and true in some way - no I don't go on vacation (at least not his kind) currently outside of church trips ("currently" being subjective?).

If you're going to get to know somebody, I'd say you need to more tactful. So "church family" seems to me dangerous solution, albeit well-meant I think. You have to deal with individuals.

[AndyDT]

- One guy said "the church doesn't approve of non-christians" although didn't really intrude but he gives controlling/manipulative/pulling-strings parental-style vibes

You know, given the hodgepodge of Tao + Christian + watchamacallit views on life you have, I can kinda see how you would stick out like a sore thumb in a purely Christian congregation.
I mean, I don't know what exact denomination the church is that you go to, but did you at least choose one that is super-liberal?

rumborak

Maybe but I think the point is about peple advocating quick-fix, generic, mass solutions.

[hefdaddy42]

Andy, I think you need a different church.

[bosk1]

I...don't think the church is the bigger issue here.

[Dr. DTVT]

I did answer it but look, anybody else asks "what have you done this weekend?", "are you going on holiday this summer?" etc. These were seeking generalised responses as if to say "aha - you have no friends and you never go away outside of here." Not true and true in some way - no I don't go on vacation (at least not his kind) currently outside of church trips ("currently" being subjective?).

I don't think people are implying anything by those questions.  Different people have different hobbies and different ideas about vacation, so the only way to find out about what someone does is to ask them.  I think you are being a little over-protective of yourself, and possibly projecting your feelings about yourself onto others.  Those are perfectly innocuous questions I ask people I've known for years as well as people I just met.  There's no judgement inferred or implied, just a simple query designed to start-up a conversation or small-talk.  How else am I going to find out my co-worker is going to South Carolina to run a marathon if I don't ask him if he has any summer plans?  Those types of questions shouldn't make you uncomfortable, and if they do you need to continue to meet people so they don't become uncomfortable.  If you don't like your answer, you can always say, "I don't know yet, but I got some ideas I'm kickin' around." or some other type of answer that isn't specific and open-ended.

[AndyDT]

I did answer it but look, anybody else asks "what have you done this weekend?", "are you going on holiday this summer?" etc. These were seeking generalised responses as if to say "aha - you have no friends and you never go away outside of here." Not true and true in some way - no I don't go on vacation (at least not his kind) currently outside of church trips ("currently" being subjective?).

I don't think people are implying anything by those questions.  Different people have different hobbies and different ideas about vacation, so the only way to find out about what someone does is to ask them.  I think you are being a little over-protective of yourself, and possibly projecting your feelings about yourself onto others.  Those are perfectly innocuous questions I ask people I've known for years as well as people I just met.  There's no judgement inferred or implied, just a simple query designed to start-up a conversation or small-talk.  How else am I going to find out my co-worker is going to South Carolina to run a marathon if I don't ask him if he has any summer plans?  Those types of questions shouldn't make you uncomfortable, and if they do you need to continue to meet people so they don't become uncomfortable.  If you don't like your answer, you can always say, "I don't know yet, but I got some ideas I'm kickin' around." or some other type of answer that isn't specific and open-ended.

That's a good kind of answer, thanks; but, as I said, he framed them in generalising ways.

I can't say for sure what his intention was but the vibe I got was that he was being patronising. I was trying not to project but since I'd got the vibe he seemed like this from earlier experiences with him then I have to take them into account as well. He didn't ask about summer plans but "do you ever go away?" and "so what do you do when you're away from work?"

I asked  a colleague once about his family because he'd earlier said voluntarily that he didn't see his kids much. He looked uncomfortable and avoided me or was very formal for months afterward. The point is if I'm not comfortable with a particular person then I shouldn't go disclosing plans to them.

But basically the book i was reading said "don't date in a vacuum" - is this good advice or not?

I go to church and other places to have interactions outside of work, dates but I don't have to explain or prove myself to anybody do I? This seems more like an approval-seeking shadow and then feeling guilty for not seeking approval. I would like to talk to somebody which is why I've spoken to selected people who seem trustworthy.

Also, lurching from a vacuum to a bunch of people who go to the same church withotu any other thought doesn't seem sensible.

[Quadrochosis]

I don't think Andy is being too shy or closed minded here. Some people don't like to be asked personal questions like that. I think the best advice given here so far was

Andy, I think you need a different church.

If you don't want to leave your church, the best solution might be to calmly explain to them that you don't feel comfortable when they question you like that. It might work, it might not.

[Frank]

"Don't date in a vacuum" - some advice works for some people and doesn't for some others. You seem like a person who is highly personal and private, so this advice may not be targeted for someone like you. It's hard to go beyond generalizations based off of my information, but generally, when people have a confidant, they tend to be happier in terms of their social environment. However, I believe psychological studies have shown that even the act of organized writing to yourself can help personal happiness, which in turn puts you in a better mindset to deal with personal problems. Ultimately, what works for me is that I don't elect to speak to close friends about my romantic life, but I have the option if I want to and I would be perfectly comfortable doing so if I felt the need.

Talking with a friend doesn't have to be approval-seeking behavior, just as when somebody confides in you they may not even be interested in whether you approve or not. A lot of human communication isn't spoken, especially when it comes to internal mental states, which can be just as elusive to those having them!

[rumborak]

My suggestion would be, join a sports club or something. People won't pry into your personal life, they usually go out afterwards etc. Much less worrisome than hanging out with a group you don't (seem to) fit into too well.

rumborak

[slycordinator]

Asking if you ever get away could just be that your friends think you seem like you need a vacation...

[AndyDT]

"Don't date in a vacuum" - some advice works for some people and doesn't for some others. You seem like a person who is highly personal and private, so this advice may not be targeted for someone like you.

It's hard to go beyond generalizations based off of my information, but generally, when people have a confidant, they tend to be happier in terms of their social environment. However, I believe psychological studies have shown that even the act of organized writing to yourself can help personal happiness, which in turn puts you in a better mindset to deal with personal problems.

Do you mean journal writing or something else? I do that journal writing daily and in detail.

Ultimately, what works for me is that I don't elect to speak to close friends about my romantic life, but I have the option if I want to and I would be perfectly comfortable doing so if I felt the need.

I can understand that but it seems to prove the point that you need to be highly selective.

Talking with a friend doesn't have to be approval-seeking behavior, just as when somebody confides in you they may not even be interested in whether you approve or not.

The book was trying to say (I think) that you need people for advice and support and I  got the feeling having come home that the woman I went out with had  a big support network (family, friends, mentor) and I was trying to do it without any support - ok I told a couple of people I'm friendly with. But then nobody else but me has to or ultimately can carry my life and so I don't want to be dependent or approval-seeking. I just got that "outnumbered" feeling. As it happens she seems quite a moral person but two or more minds working together are greater than the sum of their parts (if you believe the "mastermind" concept) and that's pretty intimidating.

A lot of human communication isn't spoken, especially when it comes to internal mental states, which can be just as elusive to those having them!

So don't over-analyse but surely still analyse.

I don't think Andy is being too shy or closed minded here. Some people don't like to be asked personal questions like that. I think the best advice given here so far was

Andy, I think you need a different church.

If you don't want to leave your church, the best solution might be to calmly explain to them that you don't feel comfortable when they question you like that. It might work, it might not.

Thanks, yes I could have said that. As it was, I just gave general answers and then asked him things. If you sit there passively, some christians will totally intrude.

[Frank]

Do you mean journal writing or something else? I do that journal writing daily and in detail.

I haven't personally read the psychological literature so I can't say for certain, but I do believe journal writing would indeed fall under that rubric.

Some people need to be highly selective. You seem to be one of those, and I know I am. The point I was moreso trying to make was that for me, it's important to be able to have a support network, but I don't feel the need to use it. It's like a hard drive for back up. You may create extra versions of important computer files, and you may never have to use them, but it's comforting to a degree that you can should you need to.

I personally love analysis. Despite it's potentially paralyzing nature, I find it genuinely fun. Each to their own.

[AndyDT]

Do most people have confidants then?  In this culture it seems that most people have buddies then find a mate and she becomes the confidant.  Personally, I've tried to consult different sources of advice for different things. Otherwise it leads to unhealthy relationships.

[slycordinator]

In this culture it seems that most people have buddies then find a mate and she becomes the confidant.

Those buddies don't disappear when the guy gets married. Those buddies are still confided in. There are things that men would say to their friends that they would never ever say to their wife and vice versa.

[rumborak]

Absolutely. There's stuff you only tell the gf/wife, there's stuff you only tell your buddies.

rumborak

[King Postwhore]

Absolutely. There's stuff you only tell the gf/wife, there's stuff you only tell your buddies.

rumborak

Oh yes, 100%

[Perpetual Change]

Do most people have confidants then?  In this culture it seems that most people have buddies then find a mate and she becomes the confidant.  Personally, I've tried to consult different sources of advice for different things. Otherwise it leads to unhealthy relationships.

My girlfriend is my number 1 confident.

[eric42434224]

Andy.

Stop wasting time.

Instead of over-analyzing life and love, just get out there and do it.  There is no perfect way, and there is no perfect outcome.

Your youth is fading away fast, and you are analyzing yourself into paralysis.

[AndyDT]

I'm having a great time thankyou very much. Thanks to the questions I've asked and thanks to the help (Grace) I've received. Thankyou God.

[AndyDT]

My suggestion would be, join a sports club or something. People won't pry into your personal life, they usually go out afterwards etc. Much less worrisome than hanging out with a group you don't (seem to) fit into too well.

rumborak

As somebody said though, no group is going to suit you entirely. I watched a documentary about a guy who was pressured by the people who arranged the 7/7 bombings in London and I thought this is exactly what I've been getting from a small group a church. "Have you thought more about...", "where are you at with your thinking...", "you'll be in hell for eternity" [the BBC seemed to say that this was  shocking when it's a core teaching of christianity].  Or "how can you believe this when it says this..." Really quite unpleasant to be honest.

But then there are people who just seem to care - loving people - and have never so much as hinted at pressurising. The others almost ruin it for people like them.

If there was somewhere else I could find a community of people who wanted to grow (a spiritual community) then I'd be there. I'm not comfortable with condemning most of humanity to oblivion for believing there are different routes to God.  It's like has been said about democracy - it's the worst form of government but all others have been tried. Church isn't perfect but it works for many people, some of whom are pretty decent. So I'll keep at it for the time being I reckon.

[sneakyblueberry]

Your posts/threads captivate me.