"Speaking in tongues"

[hefdaddy42]

 

[millahh]

I don't subscribe to the view that the charismatic churches seem to hold that speaking in tongues is the proof of receiving the HS and if you don't do it, you don't have the HS.  I think it's one of the gifts of the spirit and I hold it as a possibility for some, but when I go to a church and I'm the only one not talking that gibberish, it does make me uncomfortable, much like many of you have expressed.

Not to derail, but I feel like that encapsulates what I see as a huge problem in conservative/evangelical Christianity...the attitude of "The only way to experience spirituality or a relationship with God is the exact way that we say".  To me, it seems to make everything about conformity, stamping out diversity of thought, tolerance for other ways of believing (both Christian and non-Chrstian), and having a unique individual relationship with God.  Of course, I'm agnostic bordering on athiest, so take that with the appropriate grain of salt.

[rumborak]

I think it's kinda a rite of passage too.

rumborak

[William Wallace]

 It also says in that same chapter that people in a church gathering/setting should actually refrain from praying in tongues out loud unless they, or someone else, has a Holy Spirit-given interpretation of tongues.  Then and only then does it edify the church.  Otherwise its useless as a form of evangelism.  

Babbling uncontrollably is always useless as a form of evangelism, in my opinion. Really, would you be convinced if a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness trudged up to your house while you were doing yard work and proceeded to utter random syllables?

[sneakyblueberry]

 It also says in that same chapter that people in a church gathering/setting should actually refrain from praying in tongues out loud unless they, or someone else, has a Holy Spirit-given interpretation of tongues.  Then and only then does it edify the church.  Otherwise its useless as a form of evangelism.  

Babbling uncontrollably is always useless as a form of evangelism, in my opinion. Really, would you be convinced if a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness trudged up to your house while you were doing yard work and proceeded to utter random syllables?

Poor wording on my part, sorry, I think using tongues as a form of evangelism would be if God gave someone the ability to speak another language to minister to people who use that language, which is what is described in Romans.

What I was getting at was, tongues as a form of prophecy is very valid.  'Babbling uncontrollably' and speaking in tongues are not synonyms to me.  Say, if I was in a pentecostal/charismatic church setting and someone started to prophesy over my life through tongues and there was someone else there to interpret that through the Holy Spirit, then (using my own spiritual discernment in regards to whether I wanted to receive that particular prophetic word, of course) it would be valid to me, sure.

[William Wallace]

Oh, thanks for clarifying. I agree with that.

[bosk1]

What Yesh and WW said at the beginning of the thread.

I think it's kinda a rite of passage too.

rumborak

Which reminds me, this thread now needs an iPhone solo to be complete.

[Chino]

My old supervisor used to claim to speak in tongues. Maybe it's just me, but it didn't sound any different than someone who doesn't know the words to a song and tries to sing it anyway. I have to say I believe it to all be a load of bull shit.

[Tick]

I grew up around a lot of quacks that would become enthralled by gods power and then use it to say generic Christian and unimportant things.

Its not spiritual, its bs.

Yeah, it's fake. I remember going to church and the crazy youth pastor telling me that God wants me to speak in tongues. I distinctly remember not feeling like God wanted me to. So I didn't. Further reading revealed that the whole concept of speaking in tongues is misunderstood.

Well...that's proof enough for me.

No one here can say with any certainty it is fact or fiction, so why presume you can?

I have never spoke in tongues but I personally believe it is a legitimate thing that happens to some while others fake it due to pressure.

[William Wallace]

I grew up around a lot of quacks that would become enthralled by gods power and then use it to say generic Christian and unimportant things.

Its not spiritual, its bs.

Yeah, it's fake. I remember going to church and the crazy youth pastor telling me that God wants me to speak in tongues. I distinctly remember not feeling like God wanted me to. So I didn't. Further reading revealed that the whole concept of speaking in tongues is misunderstood.

Well...that's proof enough for me.

No one here can say with any certainty it is fact or fiction, so why presume you can?

I have never spoke in tongues but I personally believe it is a legitimate thing that happens to some while others fake it due to pressure.

The babbling is just that: babbling. What's recorded in the Bible, people speaking foreign languages they didn't know, I think is legitimate, and would be a spectacular site. But this modern spin-off is just bullshit.

[Orbert]

My college roommate and later lead singer for my first "real" band (as in playing paid gigs and everything) could speak in tongues, and after all the time we'd spent together, everything we'd been through together, I believe it.  He ended up leaving the band because he felt that he'd been called into God's service and could no longer participate in what we were doing.

Before he left, we had a number of talks.  From a selfish standpoint, I didn't want to lose my best friend and lead singer, but I also wanted to be sure he knew what he was doing.  He said he was sure, absolutely sure.  He'd been called, and he had to answer.  I asked him how he knew, why was he so sure.

He said, "Bob, I can speak in tongues.  I'm not making this up.  I have no reason to make this up.  I don't want to quit rock and roll, I don't want to leave all you guys, but this is serious."  Then he bowed his head for a moment, and when he looked up he had this odd look on his face, and spoke a few sentences.  The voice that came out of his mouth was not his, and it didn't sound like gibberish to me, but it sounded like an ancient voice speaking in an ancient language.  It was like nothing I'd ever seen or heard before or since, and I know he wasn't faking it.  There's just no way he could fool me.

He blinked a few times, then looked at me and said "Did it work?"

"Did what work?" I asked.

"Did I speak in tongues, just now?  I never know when it's gonna happen, and I can't really control it, not yet.  But it's important to me that you believe me, and understand what's happening here.  So I asked Him for a little help, so you would believe me."

I believe he did speak in tongues that night, from that event and from the other conversations we had, and from knowing the guy inside and out for years.  He's been a fully ordained minister for over 20 years now.  He's the real deal.

[Perpetual Change]

If someone is speaking to you in tongues, and you can't understand what they're saying, then speaking in tongues has pretty much accomplished the opposite of what it is supposed to accomplish.

[rumborak]

Isn't it theologically at least a little bit questionable that the Holy Spirit could be instrumentized like this? I mean, this on-demand use of tongues pretty much relegates the Holy Spirit to a party trick, kinda like dislocating a joint on demand. You'd think the real Holy Spirit chooses who and when It possesses, not the other way around.

rumborak

[Jamesman42]

My college roommate and later lead singer for my first "real" band (as in playing paid gigs and everything) could speak in tongues, and after all the time we'd spent together, everything we'd been through together, I believe it.  He ended up leaving the band because he felt that he'd been called into God's service and could no longer participate in what we were doing.

Before he left, we had a number of talks.  From a selfish standpoint, I didn't want to lose my best friend and lead singer, but I also wanted to be sure he knew what he was doing.  He said he was sure, absolutely sure.  He'd been called, and he had to answer.  I asked him how he knew, why was he so sure.

He said, "Bob, I can speak in tongues.  I'm not making this up.  I have no reason to make this up.  I don't want to quit rock and roll, I don't want to leave all you guys, but this is serious."  Then he bowed his head for a moment, and when he looked up he had this odd look on his face, and spoke a few sentences.  The voice that came out of his mouth was not his, and it didn't sound like gibberish to me, but it sounded like an ancient voice speaking in an ancient language.  It was like nothing I'd ever seen or heard before or since, and I know he wasn't faking it.  There's just no way he could fool me.

He blinked a few times, then looked at me and said "Did it work?"

"Did what work?" I asked.

"Did I speak in tongues, just now?  I never know when it's gonna happen, and I can't really control it, not yet.  But it's important to me that you believe me, and understand what's happening here.  So I asked Him for a little help, so you would believe me."

I believe he did speak in tongues that night, from that event and from the other conversations we had, and from knowing the guy inside and out for years.  He's been a fully ordained minister for over 20 years now.  He's the real deal.

That is really interesting. I don't know what to say to that!

Isn't it theologically at least a little bit questionable that the Holy Spirit could be instrumentized like this? I mean, this on-demand use of tongues pretty much relegates the Holy Spirit to a party trick, kinda like dislocating a joint on demand. You'd think the real Holy Spirit chooses who and when It possesses, not the other way around.

rumborak

Trust me, I feel the same way when I see others do it.

[Tick]

If someone is speaking to you in tongues, and you can't understand what they're saying, then speaking in tongues has pretty much accomplished the opposite of what it is supposed to accomplish.

Which is what?

[sneakyblueberry]

If someone is speaking to you in tongues, and you can't understand what they're saying, then speaking in tongues has pretty much accomplished the opposite of what it is supposed to accomplish.

Thats why Paul tells the early church not to do that unless there is someone to interpret the tongue.  Otherwise tongues are used as a form of prayer between you and God.

[Perpetual Change]

If someone is speaking to you in tongues, and you can't understand what they're saying, then speaking in tongues has pretty much accomplished the opposite of what it is supposed to accomplish.

Which is what?

To spread the word of God to people who don't understand your language?

[sneakyblueberry]

Thats not the sole purpose

[Orbert]

If someone is speaking to you in tongues, and you can't understand what they're saying, then speaking in tongues has pretty much accomplished the opposite of what it is supposed to accomplish.

Can't agree.  In my case, it was done to prove a point.  Okay, it was done on demand, but it wasn't just a "parlor trick", as Rumby called it.  I didn't understand or believe that my best friend was going to drop everything going on in his life to follow the calling, and he did the one thing that would convince me.

I'm not a super-religious guy, I haven't read the Bible cover to cover or anything, so I'm not going to argue about the original or "proper" use for speaking in tongues, but I do believe, and because of my experience, I've always seen it as a means of showing how the Holy Spriit is really in someone.  That of course has a huge potential to be abused or just plain used as a scam.  Unfortunately, that's not unlike most anything else in any religion.  If you believe it, you do, if you don't, you don't.  I believe what I saw and heard.

[slycordinator]

He never knew when it would happen and could do it on demand? At the very least, I think he expected it would happen.

[Orbert]

It was still new to him at the time and apparently hadn't happened a whole lot, so he was still figuring it out.  I don't know how he'd figured it out or what types of situations he would be in when it would happen, but he was told later that he had spoken in tongues, so it wasn't a conscious thing.  My impression was that he thought that maybe he could get himself into such a state ("on demand") but wasn't sure, so he'd asked for a little help.  Also, this was a long time ago, so I'm paraphrasing our conversation and I don't remember all the details clearly.  What I remember most of all was the impression it made on me, and that I was 100% sure that he wasn't faking it.  Because, as he pointed out, he had no reason to.  Something beyond both of our understanding took control.

[Perpetual Change]

There's probably a wide range of explanations between "he's faking it" and "the Holy Spirit compelled him to speak to you in gibberish." Not a knock at your friend; just in my experience people can suddenly feel like something else is compelling them to do a lot of things.

[William Wallace]

Isn't it theologically at least a little bit questionable that the Holy Spirit could be instrumentized like this? I mean, this on-demand use of tongues pretty much relegates the Holy Spirit to a party trick, kinda like dislocating a joint on demand. You'd think the real Holy Spirit chooses who and when It possesses, not the other way around.

rumborak

Yeah. But such is the backwards nature of pop-Christianity. I blame Joyce Meyer.

[reo73]

I will teach you all how to speak in tongues.  Say 10X really fast....

"Come in a Honda, leave in a Mazda"

You are now ready to be overcome by the Spirit.

[monk]

Do you think the people in this video are seriously doing it so easy? it looks like they can summon it anytime for TV purposes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3be9wCAwIM

From my own experience with tongues, neither of those two were speaking in tongues.

Isn't it theologically at least a little bit questionable that the Holy Spirit could be instrumentized like this? I mean, this on-demand use of tongues pretty much relegates the Holy Spirit to a party trick, kinda like dislocating a joint on demand. You'd think the real Holy Spirit chooses who and when It possesses, not the other way around.

rumborak

from my own personal experience and having had the gift through a time when I wasn't close to God, the main thing isn't calling upon the spirit to do it whenever you like but rather being in a place where it is easy for the spirit to do such a thing, it is just as easy to see it coming. I don't believe it is something that people need for salvation, in fact I know so many Christians who have such a genuine faith and do not have the gifts that it can't be that way.

[Tick]

Everyone needs to realize one fact here. Your debating something you can not disprove no matter how skeptical you are.

[hefdaddy42]

Everyone needs to realize one fact here. Your debating something you can not disprove no matter how skeptical you are.

Welcome to P/R.

[rumborak]

Everyone needs to realize one fact here. Your debating something you can not disprove no matter how skeptical you are.

I believe if a brain scan shows conclusively that "speaking in tongues" is brain wiring gone haywire, I'm pretty sure that goes a long way to disproving it.
Unless you really want this to be true as a foundation of your faith. In which case there's nothing that will ever convince you otherwise. But that's more about you than the evidence.

rumborak

[Tick]

Everyone needs to realize one fact here. Your debating something you can not disprove no matter how skeptical you are.

I believe if a brain scan shows conclusively that "speaking in tongues" is brain wiring gone haywire, I'm pretty sure that goes a long way to disproving it.
Unless you really want this to be true as a foundation of your faith. In which case there's nothing that will ever convince you otherwise. But that's more about you than the evidence.

rumborak

So... they have a brain scan on every single person who has ever claimed to speak in tongues, totally disproving it? Interesting.

[Tick]

Everyone needs to realize one fact here. Your debating something you can not disprove no matter how skeptical you are.

Welcome to P/R.

The tick icon is a registered trade mark, LLC. All rights reserved. Please mail me a nickle if you would.

[rumborak]

Everyone needs to realize one fact here. Your debating something you can not disprove no matter how skeptical you are.

I believe if a brain scan shows conclusively that "speaking in tongues" is brain wiring gone haywire, I'm pretty sure that goes a long way to disproving it.
Unless you really want this to be true as a foundation of your faith. In which case there's nothing that will ever convince you otherwise. But that's more about you than the evidence.

rumborak

So... they have a brain scan on every single person who has ever claimed to speak in tongues, totally disproving it? Interesting.

That's what I mean by you wanting it to be true. If you were giving the two options an equal chance, you would presumably say "well, if they can show in enough examples that it's faulty brain wiring without a single counter-example, it can be pretty much assumed that all cases were like that".

rumborak

[Orbert]

That wouldn't disprove anything though.  It would just show that there's a bunch of abnormal brain activity going on, which would kinda make sense if the Holy Spirit has taken over and taken control of things.

[Tick]

That wouldn't disprove anything though.  It would just show that there's a bunch of abnormal brain activity going on, which would kinda make sense if the Holy Spirit has taken over and taken control of things.

What he said!

[El JoNNo]

Why would it make sense? Why would a supernatural creature need to manipulate the brain? Thats just dumb; especially when you take into account all the supposed attributes that are given to God by believers that are supposed to be super natural.

[Orbert]

The mouth, laryngx, etc., are all still controlled by the brain.  If you were a supernatural creature and wanted to have someone start speaking in an ancient language that they don't even know, would you specifically take control of their mouth and stuff, or just take over the brain and plant the appropriate commands that way?