The Mike Mangini Thread (Thanks & Farewell)

[bosk1]

I guess that Dreamsonic is what pushes them to go ahead with it.

Most likely not.

Cause if they were already set on it way earlier, then why hastily throw together that summer tour? Just announce the reunion and start focusing on that, right?

Because either (1) they weren't "already set on it way earlier," although they were likely contemplating it; (2) if they were set on it, the timing was not yet right to move forward for a number of reasons, or (3) some other reason we haven't thought of because we simply don't have the facts.

[bosk1]

His "Thank you for trusting me the second half of your careers in life..." comment after he was asked to join makes me think that he, at least at that point, thought that he was going to be their last drummer.

Maybe he changed his point of view later, and maybe it was only something what he said - But there and then it felt like he meant it.

I think he very much did mean it.  And I think the band agreed with that as well.  But things change.

[gzarruk]

His "Thank you for trusting me the second half of your careers in life..." comment after he was asked to join makes me think that he, at least at that point, thought that he was going to be their last drummer.

Maybe he changed his point of view later, and maybe it was only something what he said - But there and then it felt like he meant it.

I'd say the other band members' comments of "Mike Mangini will be our drummer until we retire" or "Mike Portnoy isn't coming back to DT" might've given him that idea at some point, but what do I know?  

[nobloodyname]

You all still hung up on this? People get divorced all the time.

[gborland]

It's like when every band releases a new album and says it's their best. Deep down they (and everybody else) know it's not really true.

[Stadler]

I'd say the other band members' comments of "Mike Mangini will be our drummer until we retire" or "Mike Portnoy isn't coming back to DT" might've given him that idea at some point, but what do I know?  

I say this with respect, but this is a very, very, static, black and white way of looking at things.  Have you ever broken up with someone? Ever changed jobs?  Ever got a new, different car?  I mean, jeez.  If I had to hold firm, and live with every "I love you" I've ever said - whether I meant it in the moment or not - I'd be in a world of fucking hurt these days.

And maybe it's my career and what I do, but without calling anyone a "liar", because intent isn't there, we say things all the time that have an immediate, moment-to-moment truth, but may not be the absolute truth over time. Or maybe it's better said that things become relative over time.  Ever said "this is the best paella I ever had" or "wow, that was the best sex I've ever had" or "you're the best friend I ever had".  WAS IT?  Was it REALLY?  Were you LYING in that moment?  My best friend in high school and I were inseparable.  In a very manly, platonic way we even said we loved each other - again, in a very manly, brotherly way. We - or at least I - meant it.  I haven't spoken to him since 1999.  Did I LIE? 

C'mon. 

[hefdaddy42]

I say this with respect, but this is a very, very, static, black and white way of looking at things.  Have you ever broken up with someone? Ever changed jobs?  Ever got a new, different car?  I mean, jeez.  If I had to hold firm, and live with every "I love you" I've ever said - whether I meant it in the moment or not - I'd be in a world of fucking hurt these days.

And maybe it's my career and what I do, but without calling anyone a "liar", because intent isn't there, we say things all the time that have an immediate, moment-to-moment truth, but may not be the absolute truth over time. Or maybe it's better said that things become relative over time.  Ever said "this is the best paella I ever had" or "wow, that was the best sex I've ever had" or "you're the best friend I ever had".  WAS IT?  Was it REALLY?  Were you LYING in that moment?  My best friend in high school and I were inseparable.  In a very manly, platonic way we even said we loved each other - again, in a very manly, brotherly way. We - or at least I - meant it.  I haven't spoken to him since 1999.  Did I LIE? 

C'mon.

So no one should ever believe anyone?

[gzarruk]

I say this with respect, but this is a very, very, static, black and white way of looking at things.  Have you ever broken up with someone? Ever changed jobs?  Ever got a new, different car?  I mean, jeez.  If I had to hold firm, and live with every "I love you" I've ever said - whether I meant it in the moment or not - I'd be in a world of fucking hurt these days.

And maybe it's my career and what I do, but without calling anyone a "liar", because intent isn't there, we say things all the time that have an immediate, moment-to-moment truth, but may not be the absolute truth over time. Or maybe it's better said that things become relative over time.  Ever said "this is the best paella I ever had" or "wow, that was the best sex I've ever had" or "you're the best friend I ever had".  WAS IT?  Was it REALLY?  Were you LYING in that moment?  My best friend in high school and I were inseparable.  In a very manly, platonic way we even said we loved each other - again, in a very manly, brotherly way. We - or at least I - meant it.  I haven't spoken to him since 1999.  Did I LIE? 

C'mon.

I totally get it, and I think you're right to some degree. Some things change with time, others change because of circumstances beyond our control, and other times we just have to stick to our word and make choices according to it even though it might not be in our best interest at the moment.

My point was that "Mike Mangini should've known better" opposes definitive, no room for different interpretations, statements by the other band members themselves. Are things/opinions/feelings allowed to change with time? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean he should've been thinking or expecting something different when the other guys explicitly said something about the subject.

If a wife promises eternal love to her spouse, but a few years down the line cheats on him, is that really the husband's fault for not seeing it coming just because he should've known better or expected it? Really?

[TAC]

Most likely not.

Because either (1) they weren't "already set on it way earlier," although they were likely contemplating it; (2) if they were set on it, the timing was not yet right to move forward for a number of reasons, or (3) some other reason we haven't thought of because we simply don't have the facts.

Right. And I worded my opinion this morning strongly when I suggested they'd could've made the announcement way earlier had it not been for their initial 2024 obligations. That's probably not really the case, however, I do believe that it was an unstoppable train by that point for sure.

You all still hung up on this? People get divorced all the time.

To me, I just think the timings and the machinations of "how the band works" is the interesting thing.


Like...IF the power does indeed rest with JP...who does he go to first with the idea of bringing MP back? Is it John Myung? And we know that MP and JM have been on good terms for a while, with their families spending NYE together a couple of years ago, plus them being local to each other and their wives being friends.

Is it Jordan? Is it Frank Soloman?


Also, I'd be interested in..who was on the call when they delivered the news to Mike Mangini? Was it the entire band? Just JP and Frank? I don't know..these things interest me.

[Stadler]

So no one should ever believe anyone?

That's not at all what I'm saying. 

[Stadler]

I totally get it, and I think you're right to some degree. Some things change with time, others change because of circumstances beyond our control, and other times we just have to stick to our word and make choices according to it even though it might not be in our best interest at the moment.

My point was that "Mike Mangini should've known better" opposes definitive, no room for different interpretations, statements by the other band members themselves. Are things/opinions/feelings allowed to change with time? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean he should've been thinking or expecting something different when the other guys explicitly said something about the subject.

If a wife promises eternal love to her spouse, but a few years down the line cheats on him, is that really the husband's fault for not seeing it coming just because he should've known better or expected it? Really?

No, you're right.  That's fair. I mean, even that is subjective, because if she was a lying whore before you married her... I kid, I kid.  I get your point, though.

[Adami]

That's not at all what I'm saying. 

I want to believe you....but....

[hefdaddy42]

That's not at all what I'm saying. 

It may not be what you're saying, but it isn't "not at all" what you're saying.

[TAC]

 

[KevShmev]

Also, I'd be interested in..who was on the call when they delivered the news to Mike Mangini? Was it the entire band? Just JP and Frank? I don't know..these things interest me.

I'd say it is likely that they farmed it out and had the Bobs take care of it.

[TAC]

Obvious question is obvious, but who are the Bobs?

[Zydar]

I'd say it is likely that they farmed it out and had the Bobs take care of it.

"So, Mike. What would you say... you DO here?". 

[Stadler]

To me, I just think the timings and the machinations of "how the band works" is the interesting thing.


Like...IF the power does indeed rest with JP...who does he go to first with the idea of bringing MP back? Is it John Myung? And we know that MP and JM have been on good terms for a while, with their families spending NYE together a couple of years ago, plus them being local to each other and their wives being friends.

Is it Jordan? Is it Frank Soloman?


Also, I'd be interested in..who was on the call when they delivered the news to Mike Mangini? Was it the entire band? Just JP and Frank? I don't know..these things interest me.

I'm fascinated by those things as well. There's probably a different story for every band that has gone through this.  Was there a "big meeting", was there "behind the scenes shenanigans", was it a little bit of both...

[emtee]

Me, too. And if he assembled the band for a meeting would he say, "what do you think about this?" Or. "I want to do this."

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Right. And I worded my opinion this morning strongly when I suggested they'd could've made the announcement way earlier had it not been for their initial 2024 obligations. That's probably not really the case, however, I do believe that it was an unstoppable train by that point for sure.



To me, I just think the timings and the machinations of "how the band works" is the interesting thing.


Like...IF the power does indeed rest with JP...who does he go to first with the idea of bringing MP back? Is it John Myung? And we know that MP and JM have been on good terms for a while, with their families spending NYE together a couple of years ago, plus them being local to each other and their wives being friends.

Is it Jordan? Is it Frank Soloman?


Also, I'd be interested in..who was on the call when they delivered the news to Mike Mangini? Was it the entire band? Just JP and Frank? I don't know..these things interest me.

Well I think there are certainly power differentials within the group. It's hard to believe for example that JLB has as much say in things as JP. Didnt MP once threaten to fire JLB? That indicates some sort of different in command.

Based on the few things they HAVE said about this I think the idea probably first originated with JP though it could have been a JP and JR combo. Really impossible to say how this was presented to the group to be honest because it depends on a few things.

If this is ONLY about friendship and family, why does JM or JLB or even JR care to make this huge move because John is rekindled his personal relationship with Mike? I cant with certainty whether JLB wanted to do this or was just ok with it or had to go along because burying the hatchet with someone isn't the same as wanting to get back into a working relationship with that person.

I would imagine everyone got on the call but it's a pure guess. The band is going to be asked about this once there is more press so maybe we'll get more nuggets but if I had to bet I would say it's likely Mangini who drops any additional hints we get.

[hefdaddy42]

Obvious question is obvious, but who are the Bobs?

Really?

Go watch the film Office Space.

[TAC]

Really?

Go watch the film Office Space.

I saw it. Years ago. I thought it was awful. Lol

[hefdaddy42]

I saw it. Years ago. I thought it was awful. Lol

Goddammit TAC

[cygnusaz]

My opinion is this was a business, emotional, and legacy decision from both DT and Portnoy. 

 - Dreamsonic Tour was a failure sales wise. Most shows were 50% sold at best. Yes, they won a Grammy, which was nice but even that wasn't moving tickets. I could tell on that tour the fire was out.

 - Portnoy's career had peaked outside of DT. None of the bands he was in were getting traction and he was looking at spending the final decade or so of his career as a hired gun drummer with no home.

What would sell tickets? What would fire up the fan base? What would secure the DT legacy? JP and JR did a LTE album with MP, JP toured with MP.  MP and JLB kissed and made up... all of the pieces were in place.

And the result? Multiple sold out Euro shows. Several shows in the US near sell out. But most importantly, the DT legacy will end strong. Whether this lasts another year, 5 years, 10 years they are strong. Portnoy is home. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

My opinion is this was a business, emotional, and legacy decision from both DT and Portnoy. 

 - Dreamsonic Tour was a failure sales wise. Most shows were 50% sold at best. Yes, they won a Grammy, which was nice but even that wasn't moving tickets. I could tell on that tour the fire was out.

 - Portnoy's career had peaked outside of DT. None of the bands he was in were getting traction and he was looking at spending the final decade or so of his career as a hired gun drummer with no home.

What would sell tickets? What would fire up the fan base? What would secure the DT legacy? JP and JR did a LTE album with MP, JP toured with MP.  MP and JLB kissed and made up... all of the pieces were in place.

And the result? Multiple sold out Euro shows. Several shows in the US near sell out. But most importantly, the DT legacy will end strong. Whether this lasts another year, 5 years, 10 years they are strong. Portnoy is home. 

Tend to agree with your analysis, especially comparing DreamSonic turnout to DT40 selling shows out, which is like a tale of two cities at this point. Little chance the band did not contemplate this.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Mike just posted the isolated Enemy Inside intro from a live show: https://www.instagram.com/mikemanginiofficial/reel/DAmOV_UBU79/?hl=en

I've seen a lot of covers where guys play it on a regular kit and it doesn't look too difficult, but I think it's just great intro that fits opening riff perfectly.

[CodyWanKenobi]

I wouldn't be shocked if they knew before Dreamsonic that MP would be returning.

I've been wanting to say this since MP's return was announced, but I thought I might get slammed for it. I'm glad I'm not the only person who suspects this though. As silly as it may sound, I wonder if MM already knew at this point. I don't think it's a coincidence he started to put together a solo album and then left the band just before it's release. I think he knew, or at least saw the writing on the wall and decided to get to work on his own stuff since his days were numbered.

[TAC]

I wonder if MM already knew at this point.

I'm 99.9% positive he didn't.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm 99.9% positive he didn't.

He didn't know, but I am sure he knew a potential reunion was bound to occur. After watching the drummer auditions, Marco said it best. Marco understood the future and it's a reason I see why he didn't take the gig.

[TAC]

He didn't know, but I am sure he knew a potential reunion was bound to occur. After watching the drummer auditions, Marco said it best. Marco understood the future and it's a reason I see why he didn't take the gig.

Marco didn't want to be tied down to a band and have it prioritize his career for the foreseeable future. That's why he didn't join the band.

In Mike's heart of hearts, I'm sure he had considered MP coming back. He just didn't expect it to happen when it did.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Marco didn't want to be tied down to a band and have it prioritize his career for the foreseeable future. That's why he didn't join the band.

In Mike's heart of hearts, I'm sure he had considered MP coming back. He just didn't expect it to happen when it did.

This is correct. And in addition, Marco said he had told DT that the 'audition' was just for fun. It sure sounds like he had no intention of becoming the drummer, particularly if it meant giving up his other work.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The topic has been beaten to death and now that the reunion has happened everyone is like 'of course!' But there were also plausible reasons to believe it was NOT going to happen before it did.

[Ben_Jamin]

Marco didn't want to be tied down to a band and have it prioritize his career for the foreseeable future. That's why he didn't join the band.

In Mike's heart of hearts, I'm sure he had considered MP coming back. He just didn't expect it to happen when it did.

That's the unfortunate part. Getting that call when you have an amazing album with your best work.

[gzarruk]

I don't think it's a coincidence he started to put together a solo album and then left the band just before it's release. I think he knew, or at least saw the writing on the wall and decided to get to work on his own stuff since his days were numbered.

If you had been following MM closely, you'd know the album was in the works for years before the reunion with MP. There's even videos of him working with Jen Majura (can't remember if he or she posted them) via zoom call working on the melodies and that kind of stuff during 2020-ish. These kind of things take time, he definitely didn't make the album knowing he'd be out of DT soon.

[Schurftkut]

especially when the reason for that album was to show a different side from the crazy stuff DT is doing. He mentioned also having crazy music that people would've expected, so he went with the 4/4 poppy stuff.