Has Your Appreciation for Portnoy as a Player Grown?

[zxlkho]

It's a simple question and he answered it simply.

[wolfking]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

No.

Thanks for contributing to the thread, that was really insightful. 

How about I get some bisuits and tea and we have a long, emotional D&M about this subject.

[lithium112]

Yeah, I definitely think my appreciation for his talent has grown. As someone else mentioned, it's basically been brought to my attention just how tricky playing all this stuff is. After listening to a few of the grooves from the videos I also appreciate how incredibly tasteful all of MP's parts are. I honestly don't think I've ever felt like he overplayed a part of any song. His drumming is tight and musical and no matter how good these guys are, there is no doubt in my mind that Mike is a truly world-class drummer and an asset to any band he plays with. The new drummer definitely has some big shoes to fill.

[orcus116]

no my appreciation hasn't grown, he's a married man.

This will not be overlooked.

And I really don't think these auditions bolster MP's abilities in any way. It's pretty easy to jam when you use the same licks over and over again.

[SystematicThought]

A little bit yeah.

Also, if I was MP, I'd feel somewhat humbled by the fact that when the 7 drummers first were contacted about the gig, they were nervous about learning the music and how to get that feel down. I really can't imagine how humbling it must be for drummers, who MP has said in the past are better than him, to call his drum parts complex and difficult to play at first

[TAC]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

Kev, you comment about air durumming is interesting. I definitely agree.  DT is my favorite band for many reasons but the biggest reason by far is MP, his drumming, his performances, and his careful thought of the fans.

MP's drumming has a certain "playalongability" that puts the listener right in the song. Some bands feature insane drummers, yet they don't appeal to me because while techinically great, it just doesn't appeal to me as MP does. MP has life in his work.

[robwebster]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yes, and...I can't believe I'm gonna say this...so has my appreciation for his personality in the context of the band.  I've just been thinking a lot lately about how this whole new drummer thing is gonna work chemistry-wise, because even though they said they were gonna see how the chemistry flowed in every audition, this is (as they also said) like choosing a new member for their family.  The last time they did that was more than ten years ago, and when they weren't nearly as far along as a band as they are now.  I feel like in some sense the new guy will be even more of a hired gun than JR, who has in a way become a part of what we now consider to be the core of Dream Theater, along with JLB.  Will they still be able to gel the way they have since '99?  Or is MP really that irrevocably missing piece, for better or worse?

See, I'd actually say the opposite.

While I liked all the stuff MP did for the fans (absolutely cherished it), he was essentially our only real POV. He was the director of all the behind the scenes stuff, the spokesman in all of the interviews - we got to see Dream Theater more or less exclusively through his eyes. I love that he was so candid, but it made everything so very lop-sided. We'd hear Mike's version of the truth. Often supplemented by "which the band agrees with me on," but I think it was definitely a somewhat biased lens.

He injected so much of himself into the PR that it was often a little hard to see what else was going on. I'm looking forward to a more balanced Dream Theater.

(Also, this is a small thing, but I think I like Mangini's sense of humour a lot more than Portnoy's. It's a little less ostentatious and a little more self-deprecating, which I quite dig.)

Not that I've lost respect for MP. Quite the opposite. To answer the thread question (at last - god, I don't half waffle), absolutely yes. I'm "used" to the parts, so I'd sort of forgotten how good he was. But then you see people like Virgil Donati and Derek Roddy getting lost in bits that Portnoy knew like the back of his hand, and you go "whoa. Portnoy has written some absolutely killer drum parts."

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I'll say it again.



MP is a great drummer, and I don't know what made people think otherwise.

[volwrath]

I love Mike Portnoy

edit:

absolutely yes. I'm "used" to the parts, so I'd sort of forgotten how good he was. But then you see people like Virgil Donati and Derek Roddy getting lost in bits that Portnoy knew like the back of his hand, and you go "whoa. Portnoy has written some absolutely killer drum parts."

I dunno, I hear and watch MP and am constantly amazed. He is as much as a technically proficient drummer as he is a director and showman.

to repeat:

I love Mike Portnoy
(and I think I am gong to love Mangini as well)

[mrjazzguitar]

i've always had a tremendous amount of respect for Mike Portnoy. I learned how to sequence an album, how to make a setlist, how to play odd meters and metric modulations, and more simply how to really rock out with simple motifs and grooves.

I've always believed, and I still believe, that DT basically is a guitar-based group, and they became known because of John Petrucci's unbelievable guitar playing. But for them to gain a huge cult following and eventually become as well known as they are without any real commercial success is almost entirely Portnoy's doing. His connection with and true interest in the fans is unrivaled, and his persistence in the quest for making honest music, where the musicians are in control of the product, is admirable to say the least.

Drumming wise, yes he can be outplayed technically by these other guys. Petrucci can be out played technically by this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JslLRgpNhhc (I am NOT comparing the auditioning drummers to Marshall Harrison)

The truth is that Portnoy knows how to write awesome music and put on fantastic concerts with a great band of like-minded genius-level musicians.

That said, I think that Mike Mangini could really have a similarly effective rapport with the four other guys. It seems like Petrucci and Rudess have assumed leadership roles of a sort, so the new drum chair won't really need to fill Portnoy's shoes completely (and couldn't possibly).

[Aramatheis]

Drumming wise, yes he can be outplayed technically by these other guys. Petrucci can be out played technically by this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EjG3kPgG5k

got your back, bro   

[orcus116]

But then you see people like Virgil Donati and Derek Roddy getting lost in bits that Portnoy knew like the back of his hand, and you go "whoa. Portnoy has written some absolutely killer drum parts."

Practice something enough and of course it'll be second nature, especially after 10+ years of playing it. These guys only had a month and who knows how little actually time dedicated to learning the parts.

[ricky]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

 

[KevShmev]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

Kev, you comment about air durumming is interesting. I definitely agree.  DT is my favorite band for many reasons but the biggest reason by far is MP, his drumming, his performances, and his careful thought of the fans.

MP's drumming has a certain "playalongability" that puts the listener right in the song. Some bands feature insane drummers, yet they don't appeal to me because while techinically great, it just doesn't appeal to me as MP does. MP has life in his work.

Agreed, for the most part.

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

 

Problem?

[ricky]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

Kev, you comment about air durumming is interesting. I definitely agree.  DT is my favorite band for many reasons but the biggest reason by far is MP, his drumming, his performances, and his careful thought of the fans.

MP's drumming has a certain "playalongability" that puts the listener right in the song. Some bands feature insane drummers, yet they don't appeal to me because while techinically great, it just doesn't appeal to me as MP does. MP has life in his work.

Agreed, for the most part.

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

 

Problem?

No, no problem. Just indifference.


im sorry, but as a drum teacher, that post is a total contradiction of itself. if someone plays "air drums", and thinks that doing so gives them any insight as to MP's drumming, or drumming at all for that matter, makes absolutely no sense to me.

[mrjazzguitar]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

Kev, you comment about air durumming is interesting. I definitely agree.  DT is my favorite band for many reasons but the biggest reason by far is MP, his drumming, his performances, and his careful thought of the fans.

MP's drumming has a certain "playalongability" that puts the listener right in the song. Some bands feature insane drummers, yet they don't appeal to me because while techinically great, it just doesn't appeal to me as MP does. MP has life in his work.

Agreed, for the most part.

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

 

Problem?

No, no problem. Just indifference.


im sorry, but as a drum teacher, that post is a total contradiction of itself. if someone plays "air drums", and thinks that doing so gives them any insight as to MP's drumming, or drumming at all for that matter, makes absolutely no sense to me.

i thought you referring to his 'chinks' comment...

[KevShmev]

im sorry, but as a drum teacher, that post is a total contradiction of itself. if someone plays "air drums", and thinks that doing so gives them any insight as to MP's drumming, or drumming at all for that matter, makes absolutely no sense to me.

Uh, what?  I didn't say that simply air drumming gave me insight into his drumming.  I said his stuff is usually fun to air drum to, and implied that I prefer that to drumming that might be a bit more technically proficient, but not as fun to listen to (as I am not someone who gets off on musicians showing off to the max). 

[ironsam]

You can type "all these guys are drum circles around Portnoy" all you want, but clearly we've seen that being able to naturally live and breathe in weird music and odd time signatures is a truly special skill.  And clearly, only Mangini and Minneman have it developed at the same level as Portnoy.  I mean, that one weird jam thing at the beginning of Virgil's segment was... off.

The part from 10:35 to 11:13?  Didn't seem off at all to me; it was sort of a slow, repetitive, and odd jam they were all playing that didn't seem to have a specific direction (at least from the what was shown), but that wasn't Donati's fault.  I thought he had some nice stuff in there considering what the other guys were doing.  Like, 11:02-:06 is pretty sweet.

[ironsam]

Drumming wise, yes he can be outplayed technically by these other guys. Petrucci can be out played technically by this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JslLRgpNhhc (I am NOT comparing the auditioning drummers to Marshall Harrison)

What technical aspect(s) of this guy's playing do you think are better than Petrucci?  He plays some scales pretty quickly here, but they don't seem faster than what Petrucci can do, especially with just straight scales like this.  To me, muddy arpeggio sweeps and inconsistent timing in straight scale runs aren't considered technically impressive.  The 8-string is neat, I guess, but mostly pointless.

[robwebster]

But then you see people like Virgil Donati and Derek Roddy getting lost in bits that Portnoy knew like the back of his hand, and you go "whoa. Portnoy has written some absolutely killer drum parts."

Practice something enough and of course it'll be second nature, especially after 10+ years of playing it. These guys only had a month and who knows how little actually time dedicated to learning the parts.

Oh I know - I've got a lot of songs I can play on bass that are way above my standard ability, but 'cause I've put the practice in I can do them - but the fact that they're so ridiculously difficult in the first place is clearly a talent thing.

[Jalis]

Actually not really ...
im thinking that Portnoy is a top drummer...

I think that the best is to come for DT and Portnoy.

My expectations with his two albums is not good... I dunno why... just sounds stale... and boring...
But time will tell if Ill have to eat my hat, and he puts out 2 killer cd's...

And regarding DT .... I think its excellent entertainment... and no-one is irreplaceable...
attitude-wise maybe... but not technique-wise...

[rumborak]

Definitely. Also, a couple of years ago when Mike Portnoy won such a stupid amount of awards, the internet wasn't as big and popular as it is nowadays I guess (there was no youtube). People started browsing the web and seeing new drummers play and were like "oh my God, so Portnoy isn't the best guy around!" and the scene became quite more diverse.

The thing is, in most of the awards he got he was essentially without competition. The majority of his awards are for Best Progressive Rock Drummer, and even back then I scratched my head and thought "who were the runner-ups?". Rush hadn't reunited yet, Porcupine Tree didn't exist yet ...
He is a great drummer, but once actual competition arose in the genre he lost out pretty quickly.

rumborak