Has Your Appreciation for Portnoy as a Player Grown?

[TheOutlawXanadu]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

[IdoSC]

My appreciation has actually decreased for some reason...I can't put my finger on it but it did.

[Perpetual Change]

As a player it's about the same. But as a fit definitely. Though I like seeing these other four guys take the stage. I feel like I've learned more about the personalities of the other four guys in the last 6 months than I had since I watched the LiT/O5YIALT, WDADRU and LSFNY commentaries.

[Adami]

No.

Portnoy was never put in the position these guys were in, he also had 20 years experience with 2 of them to build off of.

[KevShmev]

No.

While a couple of those guys struggled to play some of Portnoy's original material, I suspect that if you asked Portnoy to play some of the original material they have played on, he would also struggle.

[drummerThatShreds87]

No. These audionees slaughter Portnoy.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Interesting.

For me, just the fact that Portnoy had to go through the same kind of improvising and jamming every time an album was made made me appreciate him a little more. We have always heard about the improvising and jamming, but actually SEEING it and how hard it is makes all these guys look a little more impressive to me.

[bosk1]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yes, I had that same exact thought.  It's easy to become a bit numb and/or indifferent to how complex DT's music is and how smooth the members of DT sound playing it.  Seeing these world-class drummers struggle in places really underscores what incredible musicians all the members of DT are and how complex and difficult the music is.  The fact that it is so difficult but doesn't sound all that difficult is also a testiment to how well-written it is as well.

Adami is correct that Mike was in a different position.  Given time to jam the stuff out more with the band, a number of these guys could probably surpass Mike's playing on a lot of songs.  Mike has said himself that he doesn't consider himself on the same level as a couple of these guys.  Sure, part of that is him being humble and showing due respect.  But the point is, Mike is indeed in a small, elite group of musicians.  Without getting into a squabble about who might be the "better" drummer, this does indeed underscore that Mike is an incredible player.  Good thread, TOX.

[champbassist]

No.

While a couple of those guys struggled to play some of Portnoy's original material, I suspect that if you asked Portnoy to play some of the original material they have played on, he would also struggle.

This.

[rumborak]

No. These audionees slaughter Portnoy.

Yeah, I agree. I think it is ridiculously remarkable how Mangini, Minnemann, Donati and Lang were able to pick up on stuff that was thrown at them within 20 seconds. MP could set his own pace during songwriting and grow into the whole thing.

rumborak

[Lowdz]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field. His parts always sound complex, right and fresh. I was instantly impressed by him on WDADU and that has never changed.

[ariich]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yes, I had that same exact thought.  It's easy to become a bit numb and/or indifferent to how complex DT's music is and how smooth the members of DT sound playing it.  Seeing these world-class drummers struggle in places really underscores what incredible musicians all the members of DT are and how complex and difficult the music is.  The fact that it is so difficult but doesn't sound all that difficult is also a testiment to how well-written it is as well.

Adami is correct that Mike was in a different position.  Given time to jam the stuff out more with the band, a number of these guys could probably surpass Mike's playing on a lot of songs.  Mike has said himself that he doesn't consider himself on the same level as a couple of these guys.  Sure, part of that is him being humble and showing due respect.  But the point is, Mike is indeed in a small, elite group of musicians.  Without getting into a squabble about who might be the "better" drummer, this does indeed underscore that Mike is an incredible player.  Good thread, TOX.

Agreed with all of this.

I don't think MP is better than all these drummers, but I certainly have a new appreciation for how tricky this stuff is to pick up and just join in with, which MP does with ease.

[KevShmev]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

[Dream Team]

MP is as musical a drummer as I've heard in this field.

Very true, and honestly, that is something that cannot be overlooked.  His drum parts almost always sound fun, and they are usually fun to air drum along to.  That kind of fun in playing is far better than being technically proficient to the point where it sounds almost too clinical.  Portnoy definitely has some chinks in his drumming armor, but he usually makes the most of what he does best.

Absolutely, and like I said in another thread, I don't believe anyone else combines chops, power, creativity, showmanship, and metalness like MP. No one I've seen YET anyway.

[zxlkho]

No. These audionees slaughter Portnoy.

[Dream Team]

No. These audionees slaughter Portnoy.

Nope.

[berrege]

I know very little about drumming, but I really respect Mike. Do you guys think any of these candidates have better skills than Mike?

[ricky]

No.

While a couple of those guys struggled to play some of Portnoy's original material, I suspect that if you asked Portnoy to play some of the original material they have played on, he would also struggle.

Yep.

also factor in how little time alot of these guys had, and most still nailed it.

i've always appreciated Mike, and that appreciation has neither grown nor depreciated.

[IdoSC]

I know very little about drumming, but I really respect Mike. Do you guys think any of these candidates have better skills than Mike?

I also know kinda little about drumming, but I really think most of these drummers are on the same league as Mike and just can't be compared properly. They play different things, they play differently compared to each other. They're all world class drummers though.

[Adami]

I know very little about drumming, but I really respect Mike. Do you guys think any of these candidates have better skills than Mike?

I can't speak for Derek Roddy or Aquiles Priester, but Lang, Donati, Mangini, and Minnemen could easily out perform Portnoy.


Peter would blow mike away in the metal field, but I haven't heard him do other genres, so I don't know. Pete, since you're lurking, you got any vids of you playing in a non metal setting?

[zerogravityfat]

no my appreciation hasn't grown, he's a married man.

[ReaPsTA]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yeah.

You can type "all these guys are drum circles around Portnoy" all you want, but clearly we've seen that being able to naturally live and breathe in weird music and odd time signatures is a truly special skill.  And clearly, only Mangini and Minneman have it developed at the same level as Portnoy.  I mean, that one weird jam thing at the beginning of Virgil's segment was... off.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yeah, although it has been very high always. I do acknowledge he became kind of stale in terms of fills, rythms, etc. in the last few albums, but the man's got some serious talent.



Portnoy should seriously cut out his "omg lol I'm obsessive compulsive and gotta do 1000 things at once" thing and get to actually practice his instrument. I love Mike Portnoy, but I reckon that can make him even better.

[ReaPsTA]

Portnoy should seriously cut out his "omg lol I'm obsessive compulsive and gotta do 1000 things at once" thing and get to actually practice his instrument. I love Mike Portnoy, but I reckon that can make him even better.

I kinda know what you mean.  He seems to put just as much if not more work into the business of Mike Portnoy as he does into being Mike Portnoy.

On the other hand, one thing he said in the 4/21 interview is that he's had no trouble continuing as a drummer after DT because he put so much work into building up his brand.  So while I think he could be a better drummer, his life decisions are clearly working for him in that sense.

[Adami]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yeah.

You can type "all these guys are drum circles around Portnoy" all you want, but clearly we've seen that being able to naturally live and breathe in weird music and odd time signatures is a truly special skill.  And clearly, only Mangini and Minneman have it developed at the same level as Portnoy.  I mean, that one weird jam thing at the beginning of Virgil's segment was... off.

I've seen some vids of Portnoy coming up with drum parts for DT and they were just as rough as first. Virgil can handle odd time like it's nobodies business. How they react to having a few minutes to learning a very odd timed riff is NO demonstration of their skills. Portnoy probably would have been just as lost in a similar situation with a bunch of people he's never played with before.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Portnoy should seriously cut out his "omg lol I'm obsessive compulsive and gotta do 1000 things at once" thing and get to actually practice his instrument. I love Mike Portnoy, but I reckon that can make him even better.

I kinda know what you mean.  He seems to put just as much if not more work into the business of Mike Portnoy as he does into being Mike Portnoy.

On the other hand, one thing he said in the 4/21 interview is that he's had no trouble continuing as a drummer after DT because he put so much work into building up his brand.  So while I think he could be a better drummer, his life decisions are clearly working for him in that sense.

Definitely. Also, a couple of years ago when Mike Portnoy won such a stupid amount of awards, the internet wasn't as big and popular as it is nowadays I guess (there was no youtube). People started browsing the web and seeing new drummers play and were like "oh my God, so Portnoy isn't the best guy around!" and the scene became quite more diverse.

[Super Dude]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yes, and...I can't believe I'm gonna say this...so has my appreciation for his personality in the context of the band.  I've just been thinking a lot lately about how this whole new drummer thing is gonna work chemistry-wise, because even though they said they were gonna see how the chemistry flowed in every audition, this is (as they also said) like choosing a new member for their family.  The last time they did that was more than ten years ago, and when they weren't nearly as far along as a band as they are now.  I feel like in some sense the new guy will be even more of a hired gun than JR, who has in a way become a part of what we now consider to be the core of Dream Theater, along with JLB.  Will they still be able to gel the way they have since '99?  Or is MP really that irrevocably missing piece, for better or worse?

[Nighthawkwill7]

Yes, Given the trouble some of the guys had playing his parts makes you appreciate his ability to write such parts even more impressive.

That being said, I'm still looking forward to what the new guy brings to the table. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It's also to be noted what has been already mentioned in here. Probably, Portnoy wouldn't be able to handle that easily the parts the new drummer writes for the new album. All of these guys are so technical and professional it's ridiculous.

[SinisterMinisterX]

Will they still be able to gel the way they have since '99?  Or is MP really that irrevocably missing piece, for better or worse?

Things will change; nothing can perfectly replace MP's place in that chemistry. But I don't see any reason to think they can't gel just as well with someone new.

[PixelDream]

The other drummers may be technically even more proficient, but Mike Portnoy just has the package. And even then he's pretty damn technical as a drummer. Definately a powerhouse, and his groove just feels great.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

but Mike Portnoy just has the package.

dirty lol

[Aramatheis]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

Yes, I had that same exact thought.  It's easy to become a bit numb and/or indifferent to how complex DT's music is and how smooth the members of DT sound playing it.  Seeing these world-class drummers struggle in places really underscores what incredible musicians all the members of DT are and how complex and difficult the music is.  The fact that it is so difficult but doesn't sound all that difficult is also a testiment to how well-written it is as well.

Adami is correct that Mike was in a different position.  Given time to jam the stuff out more with the band, a number of these guys could probably surpass Mike's playing on a lot of songs.  Mike has said himself that he doesn't consider himself on the same level as a couple of these guys.  Sure, part of that is him being humble and showing due respect.  But the point is, Mike is indeed in a small, elite group of musicians.  Without getting into a squabble about who might be the "better" drummer, this does indeed underscore that Mike is an incredible player.  Good thread, TOX.

Agreed with all of this.

I don't think MP is better than all these drummers, but I certainly have a new appreciation for how tricky this stuff is to pick up and just join in with, which MP does with ease.

[wolfking]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

No.

[PixelDream]

After watching this documentary and seeing incredible drummers struggle with either replicating songs or jamming or coming up with ideas under a riff, has your appreciation for Portnoy as a player grown?

I know mine sure has!

No.

Thanks for contributing to the thread, that was really insightful.