Obama, the daily thread on policy, and anything Obama

[EPICVIEW]

To EB,

The goverment will have a say in what cut off dates, age, etc someone can qualify for transplant surgery etc, Theoretically, controling life or death. this is pretty well talked about Dick Morris has succinctly speaks about this at length and I consider him to be a wise person, who is usally accurate.

I disagree that its not about the all might buck, this is more about control and a vehicle for amnesty.. the all might buck here is the  mandated tax.

again my issue is control and the unconstitional nature of this. this is the first or many if this legal. a tru opening of pandoras box.  again, this is an economy killer . another reason to not hire or to grow a company...this is one of the building blocks or socialism.. pretty well known. Drs are also in an uproar over this ...this subject is huge and vast and we could talk for days on it.

a quick good read, sorta sums up a lot of my view
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/31/obamacare-unconstitutional/

[tjanuranus]

This is not the FIRSt. There are many unconstitutional things that are currently going on. Like the Patriot Act and the Iraq war.

[El Barto]

One of my two doctors is in favor of it.  He's in a practice that tends to see a lot of people get fucked over by the insurance companies.  So let's not say that all doctors are in an uproar over this.  And frankly, as I've said in other threads, I think plenty of doctors are greedy swine, so I wouldn't really give too much stock to what they collectively say, anyway.  Some are interested in helping people.  Some are interested in moving up to a 750IL.  And as usual, you've skipped over a key point of a post in your reply.  Insurance companies have set the standard for "death panels" over the last few years.  It's just not conceivable that a subsidized plan will be more aggressive in terminating treatment than a for profit strategy.  

And also, as somebody working in a small business that provide[d] insurance to it's employees, the status quo was already a killer to growth.  People are in such a panic to slam their misconceived idea of socialism that they ignore how truly fucked up health care in this country is.  

[EPICVIEW]

This is not the FIRSt. There are many unconstitutional things that are currently going on. Like the Patriot Act and the Iraq war.

Thats not true.. Never has the goverment mandated that we have to buy anything or be fined or threatened with worse.

patriot act is easily constitutioanal for the protection of the citizens of the USA.  its never been even challenged in that regard..

You may want to check if the TSA pat downs that Obama put in are..thats debatable


To EB.. I didnt gloss over that.. I just dont get caught up in that, I believe in portability, and open market to drive down prices, and again the crux of my issue is that its NOT constitutional and whats not feasible or conceavible that it can work when loaded with another 12 million people who wont be paying into it.. as they wont be paying taxes, I saw stat that half the USA doesnt not pay taxes.. it just cant work

[tjanuranus]

This is not the FIRSt. There are many unconstitutional things that are currently going on. Like the Patriot Act and the Iraq war.

Thats not true.. Never has the goverment mandated that we have to buy anything or be fined or threatened with worse.

patriot act is easily constitutioanal for the protection of the citizens of the USA.  its never been even challenged in that regard..

You may want to check if the TSA pat downs that Obama put in are..thats debatable


To EB.. I didnt gloss over that.. I just dont get caught up in that, I believe in portability, and open market to drive down prices, and again the crux of my issue is that its NOT constitutional and whats not feasible of conceavible that it can work when loaded with anothere 12 million people who wont be paying into it.. as they wont be paying taxes, I saw stat that half the USA doesnt not pay taxes.. it just cant work

https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20999950/ns/us_news-security/t/judge-rules-part-patriot-act-unconstitutional/

Judge rules part of Patriot Act unconstitutional

PORTLAND, Ore. — Two provisions of the USA Patriot Act are unconstitutional because they allow search warrants to be issued without a showing of probable cause, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, "now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment."

Portland attorney Brandon Mayfield sought the ruling in a lawsuit against the federal government after he was mistakenly linked by the FBI to the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people in 2004.

The federal government apologized and settled part of the lawsuit for $2 million after admitting a fingerprint was misread. But as part of the settlement, Mayfield retained the right to challenge parts of the Patriot Act, which greatly expanded the authority of law enforcers to investigate suspected acts of terrorism.

Mayfield claimed that secret searches of his house and office under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act violated the Fourth Amendment's guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure. Aiken agreed with Mayfield, repeatedly criticizing the government.

"For over 200 years, this Nation has adhered to the rule of law — with unparalleled success. A shift to a Nation based on extra-constitutional authority is prohibited, as well as ill-advised," she wrote.

By asking her to dismiss Mayfield's lawsuit, the judge said, the U.S. attorney general's office was "asking this court to, in essence, amend the Bill of Rights, by giving it an interpretation that would deprive it of any real meaning. This court declines to do so."

Elden Rosenthal, an attorney for Mayfield, issued a statement on his behalf praising the judge, saying she "has upheld both the tradition of judicial independence, and our nation's most cherished principle of the right to be secure in one's own home."

Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr said the agency was reviewing the decision, and he declined to comment further.

Received apology from FBI
Mayfield, a Muslim convert, was taken into custody on May 6, 2004, because of a fingerprint found on a detonator at the scene of the Madrid bombing. The FBI said the print matched Mayfield's. He was released about two weeks later, and the FBI admitted it had erred in saying the fingerprints were his and later apologized to him.

Before his arrest, the FBI put Mayfield under 24-hour surveillance, listened to his phone calls and surreptitiously searched his home and law office.

The Mayfield case has been an embarrassment for the federal government. Last year, the Justice Department's internal watchdog faulted the FBI for sloppy work in mistakenly linking Mayfield to the Madrid bombings. That report said federal prosecutors and FBI agents had made inaccurate and ambiguous statements to a federal judge to get arrest and criminal search warrants against Mayfield.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[EPICVIEW]

and do we all know who is going to be enforcing this Obamacare...THE IRS.  so good luck everyone..

[Scheavo]

This is not the FIRSt. There are many unconstitutional things that are currently going on. Like the Patriot Act and the Iraq war.

Thats not true.. Never has the goverment mandated that we have to buy anything or be fined or threatened with worse.

patriot act is easily constitutioanal for the protection of the citizens of the USA.  its never been even challenged in that regard..

You may want to check if the TSA pat downs that Obama put in are..thats debatable

I'll assume by "The government" you mean the federal government, because you're required to buy car insurance, or face a penalty. ANd pragmatically, does it really matter where the force comes from?

And partriot act is so fucking unconstitutional it's hilarious. The Bill of Rights we're basically thrown out the fucking window. There's a story that just came out yesterday about a man getting arrested for taking photographs of a train station. What was cited? Patriot Act.

And the TSA patdowns at a continuation of security measures enacted by Bush. Obama is guilty for going along with it, but don't forget where the slope starts.

By the way, wouldn't it sovle the constitutionality issue of the health care debate, if instead of mandating people buy insurance we just INSURE them? Yak now, like medicare? Better system, and no constitutional problems.

[tjanuranus]

https://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html

US CONSTITUTION VS. THE PATRIOT ACT.

[EPICVIEW]

This is not the FIRSt. There are many unconstitutional things that are currently going on. Like the Patriot Act and the Iraq war.

Thats not true.. Never has the goverment mandated that we have to buy anything or be fined or threatened with worse.

patriot act is easily constitutioanal for the protection of the citizens of the USA.  its never been even challenged in that regard..

You may want to check if the TSA pat downs that Obama put in are..thats debatable


To EB.. I didnt gloss over that.. I just dont get caught up in that, I believe in portability, and open market to drive down prices, and again the crux of my issue is that its NOT constitutional and whats not feasible of conceavible that it can work when loaded with anothere 12 million people who wont be paying into it.. as they wont be paying taxes, I saw stat that half the USA doesnt not pay taxes.. it just cant work

https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20999950/ns/us_news-security/t/judge-rules-part-patriot-act-unconstitutional/

Judge rules part of Patriot Act unconstitutional

PORTLAND, Ore. — Two provisions of the USA Patriot Act are unconstitutional because they allow search warrants to be issued without a showing of probable cause, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, "now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment."

Portland attorney Brandon Mayfield sought the ruling in a lawsuit against the federal government after he was mistakenly linked by the FBI to the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people in 2004.

The federal government apologized and settled part of the lawsuit for $2 million after admitting a fingerprint was misread. But as part of the settlement, Mayfield retained the right to challenge parts of the Patriot Act, which greatly expanded the authority of law enforcers to investigate suspected acts of terrorism.

Mayfield claimed that secret searches of his house and office under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act violated the Fourth Amendment's guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure. Aiken agreed with Mayfield, repeatedly criticizing the government.

"For over 200 years, this Nation has adhered to the rule of law — with unparalleled success. A shift to a Nation based on extra-constitutional authority is prohibited, as well as ill-advised," she wrote.

By asking her to dismiss Mayfield's lawsuit, the judge said, the U.S. attorney general's office was "asking this court to, in essence, amend the Bill of Rights, by giving it an interpretation that would deprive it of any real meaning. This court declines to do so."

Elden Rosenthal, an attorney for Mayfield, issued a statement on his behalf praising the judge, saying she "has upheld both the tradition of judicial independence, and our nation's most cherished principle of the right to be secure in one's own home."

Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr said the agency was reviewing the decision, and he declined to comment further.

Received apology from FBI
Mayfield, a Muslim convert, was taken into custody on May 6, 2004, because of a fingerprint found on a detonator at the scene of the Madrid bombing. The FBI said the print matched Mayfield's. He was released about two weeks later, and the FBI admitted it had erred in saying the fingerprints were his and later apologized to him.

Before his arrest, the FBI put Mayfield under 24-hour surveillance, listened to his phone calls and surreptitiously searched his home and law office.

The Mayfield case has been an embarrassment for the federal government. Last year, the Justice Department's internal watchdog faulted the FBI for sloppy work in mistakenly linking Mayfield to the Madrid bombings. That report said federal prosecutors and FBI agents had made inaccurate and ambiguous statements to a federal judge to get arrest and criminal search warrants against Mayfield.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

OK...I guess...seems pretty minor and nonsensicle, but having the Partiot Act is not unconstitiounal

[PraXis]

Obamacare and the Patriot Act are both unconstitutional and unnecessary.

[tjanuranus]

[EPICVIEW]

Obamacare and the Patriot Act are both unconstitutional and unnecessary.

I could argue that "the protection of the citzens of the USA is the goverments greatest responsiblity" I really dont see it as not, hence why its still in place for the last 9 years..

Obamacare.. to me and many others is a slam dunk violation of my freedom.

[EPICVIEW]

This feels like a Gitmo arguement.. it really does not affect 99% of the US population..

How deos the Patriot act effect me negatively? Im actually for it!!!

where Obamacare will effect us all...its killing the economy and plays into Cloward Piven and the nanny state

[eric42434224]

Obamacare and the Patriot Act are both unconstitutional and unnecessary.

I could argue that "the protection of the citzens of the USA is the goverments greatest responsiblity" I really dont see it as not, hecne why its still in place for the last 9 years..

Obamacare.. to me and many others is a slam dunk violation of my freedom.

From reading the above posts, it is pretty much impossible to see how the Patriot Act doesnt bone the Bill of Rights.
Is the Govts biggest responsibility to keep its citizens safe?  Yes....but never at the cost of their rights.  
It seems very simple.

[tjanuranus]

The fact that it effects some American citizens should be alarming because like you said... it's a slippery slope. Plus even if it effects one person, it's still unconstitutional and has no place in a free society.

[tjanuranus]

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither. - Benjamin Franklin.

[eric42434224]

This feels like a Gitmo arguement.. it really does not affect 99% of the US population..

How deos the Patriot act effect me negatively? Im actually for it!!!

where Obamacare will effect us all...its killing the economy and plays into Cloward Piven and the nanny state

Ahhh now we see....you dont care about all Americans....just yourself.
Does it shit on only some peoples rights?  Thats ok as long as it doesnt shit on mine.... Screw the ones it does affect as long as it is OK with me.
Very American of You.

[EPICVIEW]

The fact that it effects some American citizens should be alarming because like you said... it's a slippery slope. Plus even if it effects one person, it's still unconstitutional and has no place in a free society.

I only wish Clinton did it after the first attack of the WTC...

its been around for 9 years? where the outcry? I live in NJ.. its not even mentioned in passing.. nobody cares...NOBODY. this is pure agenda driven.. this is CAIRs issue..etc

again the job of the President/Goverment is to protect us..thats about the only job to me..

[PraXis]

Obamacare and the Patriot Act are both unconstitutional and unnecessary.

I could argue that "the protection of the citzens of the USA is the goverments greatest responsiblity" I really dont see it as not, hecne why its still in place for the last 9 years..

Obamacare.. to me and many others is a slam dunk violation of my freedom.

You could argue that about the P.A., but I argue that it is a violation of the 4th Amendment. I'd rather have airport security like in Israel. That doesn't require a Patriot Act.

[EPICVIEW]

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither. - Benjamin Franklin.

what right have you lost? I have lost none..I now have the right to walk my city and not be blown up..so I thank GWB for the HSD and Patriot act.

[eric42434224]

Slavery was around for longer than 9 years with no outcry either.  Doesnt make it right.

[El Barto]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

[eric42434224]

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither. - Benjamin Franklin.

what right have you lost? I have lost none..I now have the right to walk my city and not be blown up..so I thank GWB for the HSD and Patriot act.

It was written in black and white a few post above.  Read it.

[EPICVIEW]

The fact that it effects some American citizens should be alarming because like you said... it's a slippery slope. Plus even if it effects one person, it's still unconstitutional and has no place in a free society.

Then you should be insensed over Obamacare.. if thats your criteria..

what American citizens are being effected??...Id assume CNN , the NY Times would have this on banners, but Im not seeing it..heck I hear more about sharks and rabid beavers in Philly then this

[eric42434224]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

[tjanuranus]

The patriot act is old news. Years ago it was talked about constantly but i think most people have given up trying to fight it. There is a difference in philosophy. I believe health care is a human right. Every single person should have healthcare and it should NEVER be for profit. I don't feel the same way about the goverment being able to throw you in jail without a trial, wiretap you, etc...

[El Barto]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

On the contrary, It's Obama now wielding the power, he should have everything to hide.  He's certainly concerned about mysterious chips implanted in cellphones by the Obama administration, and the fact that the TSA goons that he otherwise loves get to fondle teenagers in the airports, ostensibly because of Obama.  

[tjanuranus]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

Well at least I hope he feels this way about everything that doesn't affect him. Like Gay marriage, abortion, etc.

[tjanuranus]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

On the contrary, It's Obama now wielding the power, he should have everything to hide.  He's certainly concerned about mysterious chips implanted in cellphones by the Obama administration, and the fact that the TSA goons that he otherwise loves get to fondle teenagers in the airports, ostensibly because of Obama.  

See this is exactly why i completely stopped listening to political radio and watching political news. The brainwashing is insane. I'd rather just read things on my own and make up my own mind about everything than having it fed into my brain by a talking head.

[EPICVIEW]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

EB, its been 9 years.. has it really effected ya? I cant say it has me..heck Im not even sure if they are doing that, but saying they will could be a deterent.

I honestly know of no one that this has effected, EB, can you site a case that it was erroneous? I understand your point I really do.. but post 9/11 Im not sure

[EPICVIEW]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

Well at least I hope he feels this way about everything that doesn't affect him. Like Gay marriage, abortion, etc.

pro choice.

[EPICVIEW]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

9/11 personally effected me.. so Im ok with the Patriot Act, it was used to defeat the Brooklyn Bridge Plot. 


Eric you must be on fire about Obamcare taking your rights...right?

[PraXis]

Ya know, EV, for somebody who thinks that Obama is the epitome of evil, it's odd that you don't have a problem with allowing him to read your email, monitor your browsing, look at your library records, track your car, track your credit card purchases, and basically investigate every single detail of your life, all because President Dumbass vested him with the ability to do so.  Personally, I'm deeply fucking offended that either president wants that right.  

He feels it is OK as long as he feels he has nothing to hide.  Epicviews MO is that something can step on the rights of citicens....as long as it doesnt personally affect him.

Well at least I hope he feels this way about everything that doesn't affect him. Like Gay marriage, abortion, etc.

Should be a states' issue. I support both though.

[tjanuranus]

For the Record, i voted for Obama and I probably will again but i think this healthcare bill is fucking bullshit. So I'm NOT some Obama fan, far from it.

[El Barto]

I honestly know of no one that this has effected, EB, can you site a case that it was erroneous? I understand your point I really do.. but post 9/11 Im not sure

https://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/10/08/kid-finds-tracking-device-under-his-car-posts-photos-feds-man-up/
And just to be dicks, they complimented him on his new job and his choice of restaurants, so obviously they were paying pretty good attention to his activities.  

And as for how it's affected me, as I suggested elsewhere, I'm more afraid of the government that I am of terrorists, by a long shot.  Given how much Obama scares you, you should be as well.  Frankly, the terrorists (just like us) seem to be working harder, not smarter.  Honestly, they suck.  There's really not much to be afraid of, and as I said elsewhere, there wasn't any need for this garbage before 911.  They had all the clues they needed.  The UPA was just an opportunistic power grab.