Obama

[eric42434224]

Epicview, you realize that Obama's more or less a neocon who's continued many Bush practices and policies, don't you?

They're really not all that different. I'd be happy if I shared your views.

what is a Neocon? I hate the term..and im not into all that stuff.

lets stay on subject if we can, but I didnt want to be rude and not respond

Not to be rude, but you arent staying on subject either.  Instead of posting rants about what he did, perhaps pick just one, and respond with what you would have done differently, and why.

Just one????LOL... if he just did the oppostie in each case and that would be what should have been done, but ok I will try to say what he should have done tomorrow

In regards to the Bailouts then....Just so we are clear, you and Praxis both agree that it is better to let the companies fail, putting the country into a deeper and longer recession, straining the economy and financial markets around the world.....and in effect directly and negatively affecting the well being of American familes?  Really?

[EPICVIEW]

Epicview, you realize that Obama's more or less a neocon who's continued many Bush practices and policies, don't you?

They're really not all that different. I'd be happy if I shared your views.

what is a Neocon? I hate the term..and im not into all that stuff.

lets stay on subject if we can, but I didnt want to be rude and not respond

Not to be rude, but you arent staying on subject either.  Instead of posting rants about what he did, perhaps pick just one, and respond with what you would have done differently, and why.

Just one????LOL... if he just did the oppostie in each case and that would be what should have been done, but ok I will try to say what he should have done tomorrow

In regards to the Bailouts then....Just so we are clear, you and Praxis both agree that it is better to let the companies fail, putting the country into a deeper and longer recession, straining the economy and financial markets around the world.....and in effect directly and negatively affecting the well being of American familes?  Really?

YES

[eric42434224]

Epicview, you realize that Obama's more or less a neocon who's continued many Bush practices and policies, don't you?

They're really not all that different. I'd be happy if I shared your views.

what is a Neocon? I hate the term..and im not into all that stuff.

lets stay on subject if we can, but I didnt want to be rude and not respond

Not to be rude, but you arent staying on subject either.  Instead of posting rants about what he did, perhaps pick just one, and respond with what you would have done differently, and why.

Just one????LOL... if he just did the oppostie in each case and that would be what should have been done, but ok I will try to say what he should have done tomorrow

In regards to the Bailouts then....Just so we are clear, you and Praxis both agree that it is better to let the companies fail, putting the country into a deeper and longer recession, straining the economy and financial markets around the world.....and in effect directly and negatively affecting the well being of American familes?  Really?

YES

Interesting that one who purports to love America so much, would be willing to have the country and its citizens suffer more, and longer, just to teach wall street a lesson.

I would bet dollars to donoughts that a very large percentage of those that feel this way would flip flop if it were a president they liked.

[EPICVIEW]

^ they would have restructured under chapter 11 etc. or had a rival buy them out or gone into a partnership with the buying Co.

but much like housing a bottom needs to be found, so markets can find that bottom and cue off of it.

whats unfair is that he wont bail out all Cos!!!..thats the hypocisy and pandoras box he opened. Will he bail my Co out???...or only ones with UNION workers? Hmmmmm

many Co's do go out of business..and poor management is the cause, so if thats their fate so be it. we live in AMERICA.  Obamas bail out  of GM and the VOLT to me and others is influencing his no drill moratoreum and why he has stated he is fine with the high gas prices..he said he just didnt like them going up too fast.

Obama just told a guy that cant affford the gas for his SUV ( he has 6 kids the guy asking the question) to "buy a new car"..if the guy could buy a new car he could afford the gas...Obama is horrible and out to lunch and not a leader

[PraXis]

Epicview, you realize that Obama's more or less a neocon who's continued many Bush practices and policies, don't you?

They're really not all that different. I'd be happy if I shared your views.

what is a Neocon? I hate the term..and im not into all that stuff.

lets stay on subject if we can, but I didnt want to be rude and not respond

Not to be rude, but you arent staying on subject either.  Instead of posting rants about what he did, perhaps pick just one, and respond with what you would have done differently, and why.

Just one????LOL... if he just did the oppostie in each case and that would be what should have been done, but ok I will try to say what he should have done tomorrow

In regards to the Bailouts then....Just so we are clear, you and Praxis both agree that it is better to let the companies fail, putting the country into a deeper and longer recession, straining the economy and financial markets around the world.....and in effect directly and negatively affecting the well being of American familes?  Really?

No bailouts = worse recession, but also = shorter recession (see 1919).

Markets self correct in 6-12 months and the companies that failed are restructured and rehiring... happens all the time.

Bailouts = prolonging the inevitable.

If you think the recession we just experienced was bad, you have no idea how the oncoming collapse is going to be.

[eric42434224]

^ they would have restructured under chapter 11 etc. or had a rival buy them out or gone into a partnership with the buying Co.

but much like housing a bottom needs to be found, so markets can find that bottom and cue off of it.

whats unfair is that he wont bail out all Cos..thats the hypocisy and pandoras box he opened.

many Cos do go out of business..and poor management is the cause, so if thats their fate so be it. we live in AMERICA.  Obamas bail out GM and the VOLT to me nad others is influneinc his no drill moratoreum and why he has stated he is fine with the high gas prices..he sadi he just didnt like them going up too fast.

Obama just told a guy he cant affford the gas for hsi SUV ( he has 6 kids the guy asking the question) to "buy a new car"..if the guy could buy a new car he could afford the gas...Obama is horrible and out to lucn and not a leader

You obviously are unaware of the financial entanglements that were in play.  It was not simply one company going under....the ramifications of AIG alone going under would have been disastrous to a huge number of other financial companies, banks, municipalities, and citizens.  

[EPICVIEW]

^ they would have restructured under chapter 11 etc. or had a rival buy them out or gone into a partnership with the buying Co.

but much like housing a bottom needs to be found, so markets can find that bottom and cue off of it.

whats unfair is that he wont bail out all Cos..thats the hypocisy and pandoras box he opened.

many Cos do go out of business..and poor management is the cause, so if thats their fate so be it. we live in AMERICA.  Obamas bail out GM and the VOLT to me nad others is influneinc his no drill moratoreum and why he has stated he is fine with the high gas prices..he sadi he just didnt like them going up too fast.

Obama just told a guy he cant affford the gas for hsi SUV ( he has 6 kids the guy asking the question) to "buy a new car"..if the guy could buy a new car he could afford the gas...Obama is horrible and out to lucn and not a leader

You obviously are unaware of the financial entanglements that were in play.  It was not simply one company going under....the ramifications of AIG alone going under would have been disastrous to a huge number of other financial companies, banks, municipalities, and citizens.  

Oh I do know...and nothing may have happened, it was a credit float

[EPICVIEW]

look at who Obama bailed out? whats the common thread?

Have a nice night everyone!!
Peace!!

[jsem]

   

LOLOL @ this thread's development
Seriously, where does Epicview get these things?
 
I don't like Obama at all, he's just another puppet of the corporate industry - but these claims are just hopelessly ridiculous.

[El Barto]

Overlooking the Uncle Odinga and "Bush kept us safe and strong" nonsense, Praxis and EV might be right about the bailouts.  I'm really not sure one way or the other.  I can certainly appreciate both points of view and therefore how somebody might favor one over the other.  The problem is that because of today's political climate, accepting that something's a tough call with no clear-cut solution doesn't fly anymore.  Everything's either vitally important to the nations very survival, or the biggest blunder since the dawn of man.  Maybe it was just a tough call with no right or wrong answer and we haven't seen how it'll turn out yet. 

[King Postwhore]

What was everybody's take on the $600 and per person tax rebate Bush did.  Do you think that we spent the money which was good for business, got rid of debt or did Americans put it in the bank.  Was this better than bailing out big business or not?

[El Barto]

What was everybody's take on the $600 and per person tax rebate Bush did.  Do you think that we spent the money which was good for business, got rid of debt or did Americans put it in the bank.  Was this better than bailing out big business or not?

I pumped mine into the European economy.   

[King Postwhore]

What was everybody's take on the $600 and per person tax rebate Bush did.  Do you think that we spent the money which was good for business, got rid of debt or did Americans put it in the bank.  Was this better than bailing out big business or not?

I pumped mine into the European economy.   

I've always wondered if some of the bailout money was put again as a tax break would Americans spend, spend, spend helping the economy of does it not help enough.  I'm not well versed enough to figure it out.

[GuineaPig]

I don't know much about economics, but I've heard it's an effective way to instigate very short-term economic growth.

I would've invested it in high-speed rail regardless.

[Perpetual Change]

Eh, Obama's a stinker. It's too bad that no-one decent on the other side can compete with him. Personally, while I support a number of Obama's policies (like Healthcare) I think he's done a horrible job at selling them to the US people. He talks over people's heads. Honestly, I think Huckabee's onto something with the "Simple Government" thing. Obama's administration doesn't seem to be able to boil things down to a level that people can understand.

Overlooking the Uncle Odinga and "Bush kept us safe and strong" nonsense, Praxis and EV might be right about the bailouts.  I'm really not sure one way or the other.  I can certainly appreciate both points of view and therefore how somebody might favor one over the other.  The problem is that because of today's political climate, accepting that something's a tough call with no clear-cut solution doesn't fly anymore.  Everything's either vitally important to the nations very survival, or the biggest blunder since the dawn of man.  Maybe it was just a tough call with no right or wrong answer and we haven't seen how it'll turn out yet. 

Yeah, I feel this way too. Like you said, it's a tough call.

[ReaPsTA]

In regards to the Bailouts then....Just so we are clear, you and Praxis both agree that it is better to let the companies fail, putting the country into a deeper and longer recession, straining the economy and financial markets around the world.....and in effect directly and negatively affecting the well being of American familes?  Really?

The idea of a deeper and longer recession is a bit questionable, but it's like dealing with a drug addict.  Sometimes they need to bottom out in order to get to the point where pure survival is more important than the drug.  In this case, the drug is creating profit from pure numbers instead of value, and we haven't collectively realized we can't do that.

[EPICVIEW]

 

LOLOL @ this thread's development
Seriously, where does Epicview get these things?
 
I don't like Obama at all, he's just another puppet of the corporate industry - but these claims are just hopelessly ridiculous.

Hello Jsem,
How do you figure that my posts are not accurate?

[PlaysLikeMyung]

take it easy jsem. Those sorts of posts aren't productive

[EPICVIEW]

What was everybody's take on the $600 and per person tax rebate Bush did.  Do you think that we spent the money which was good for business, got rid of debt or did Americans put it in the bank.  Was this better than bailing out big business or not?

I liked it Kings!! I got that check and I did spend it. thats my take!!

and to your other point to me "Bailout = buying of Union votes and payback to the Unions"

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Wall Street is a large Union bloc

[PraXis]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Wall Street is a large Union bloc

TARP = Wall Street bailouts.
"stimulus" bill = state union bailouts.

The money ran out so now states are laying off public employees.

[EPICVIEW]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Wall Street is a large Union bloc

That was the GWB credit float.. I dont consider that a bailout it was labeled as TARP, what GWB did was float the credit over night, so the markets could function, and the bond market would be stable. etc

This  is a bailout of the Unions
https://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2009/05/will-gm-bailout-be-obamas-tipping-point

[EPICVIEW]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Wall Street is a large Union bloc

TARP = Wall Street bailouts.
"stimulus" bill = state union bailouts.

The money ran out so now states are laying off public employees.

Right on Praxis!!! we almost said the same thing!!

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Oh, if you want to talk about bailouts and Unions...


Don't forget that Bush bailed out the Big 3 auto companies


Auto workers being a large Union bloc

[rumborak]

I would like to hear the alternative to the bank bailouts. Let them go down and drag myriads others with it?
The problem is Too Big To Fail, and that banks were allowed to become that.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

Oh, if you want to talk about bailouts and Unions...


Don't forget that Bush bailed out the Big 3 auto companies


Auto workers being a large Union bloc

again... Bush gave the auto makers time to restructure.


Obama took stock in the Auto Cos..and as we see is vested now, and is ties into his energy policy.
the NY Times is a liberal yellow journalism rag, they are parcing words but even they cant say its NOT Obama

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/business/20auto.html


This article shows Obama PUSHING GWB to give the bail out.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/11/obama-bush-auto-industry-colombia

It was the first test of wills between Obama, who as a Democrat instinctively favours intervention, and Bush, who is still ideologically resistant to using federal funds to prop up private companies. Although Bush was forced to agree to a $700bn (£454bn) rescue package for the banking, insurance and mortgage industries, he has so far drawn a line at the car companies.

[orcus116]

Not that I blame him but I love how Bush's "time to restructure" was merely just a "oh shit I better hand this off before it gets really bad". So say Obama wasn't becoming president in those next few months, what would Bush have done?

[rumborak]

Also, waiting a few months before doing anything during the financial crisis would have been irresponsible to say the least. All governments across the world did the same action, this is not an Obama thing.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

Not that I blame him but I love how Bush's "time to restructure" was merely just a "oh shit I better hand this off before it gets really bad". So say Obama wasn't becoming president in those next few months, what would Bush have done?

read the other aticle above.. and GWB was leaving office, Bush was NOT going to bail out a private Co

[orcus116]

Eh lemme rethink that.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I would like to hear the alternative to the bank bailouts. Let them go down and drag myriads others with it?
The problem is Too Big To Fail, and that banks were allowed to become that.

rumborak

I"m interested in this as well. What would the conservatives have done?

[El Barto]

The problem is, as I understand it, the auto bailout worked.  Chrysler and GM are both operating fairly well at the moment, and they're on track to pay back 78% of 85 billion in taxpayer bread.  And BTW, Dumbass's initial contribution of 17B was nearly doubled by the time he left office.  He covered well over a third of it, and it's looking like he was right to do so.  Considering the number of jobs at stake, I'd say that it probably wasn't too bad an investment.

[rumborak]

The banks which got bailout also have paid back vast amounts of their borrowed money, with nice interest for the gov't IIRC.

rumborak

[EPICVIEW]

The problem is, as I understand it, the auto bailout worked.  Chrysler and GM are both operating fairly well at the moment, and they're on track to pay back 78% of 85 billion in taxpayer bread.  And BTW, Dumbass's initial contribution of 17B was nearly doubled by the time he left office.  He covered well over a third of it, and it's looking like he was right to do so.  Considering the number of jobs at stake, I'd say that it probably wasn't too bad an investment.

Cough... EB, bro....

we as taxpayers are about to lose 11billion..id say thats more like failing, and Obama is manipulating the oil prices to coerse us into buying into the VOLT and his insane Cap and Trade bill..

https://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iQ772RYgyZRuijNjN58Syvf8HExw?docId=CNG.862196b5b90a6d3e5734cc272997d1cd.a51

[PlaysLikeMyung]

OH PLEASE

That is by far the most far fetched thing I've heard from you yet EV

Obama is NOT MANIPULATING OIL PRICES