Obama

[EPICVIEW]

We don't need it to create electricity.  I assure you there are other, better possible ways of doing so. 

magic? because millions rely on it today

[jsem]

I don't think Seth is arguing for ending it immediately, more a gradual process. Plus, solar and wave have real possibilites for supplying energy without harming any eco-systems.

[GuineaPig]

The problem with solar (and to a lesser extent, wind) is that they are stopgaps more than really viable long-term sources.  

I wonder how much control the coal lobby has over Congress.  I know that every time I see an ad for "clean coal" I want to send hate-mail to those deceiving bastards.

[PraXis]

Solar and wind are not viable for large-scale power... too expensive and roomy.. you'd have to fill the state of Rhode Island to power a city like Austin, TX. You can, of course, put solar panels on your house to power it, but for $60k?!   When it's $6k I'll consider it.

Nuclear is the way to go. Use all the leftover coal to create diesel fuel for backup generators and our vehicles.

[jsem]

Actually, a country like Algeria could make fortunes selling energy to Europe. By just placing tons of panels all over the desert-

I do agree about nuclear though. For now it's definitely the best that we've got.

[EPICVIEW]

I don't think Seth is arguing for ending it immediately, more a gradual process. Plus, solar and wave have real possibilites for supplying energy without harming any eco-systems.

IM sure youre right..  dtismajesty  is a verey nice guy...I just dont want to see society today have to pay so much for energy and Obama is pushing the rates on all enerrgy through the roof..

[El Barto]

The problem is, in a consumer based nation such as ours, it doesn't matter how much energy you produce because people will just find reasons to use more. 

There's a no-win situation in play here.  If you remove every single roadblock and restriction to cheapen energy costs, the energy companies will run amok snatching every drop of oil and splitting every plutonium atom available, and we the consumers will still be paying top dollar for energy at the upper margin of availability. 

Expensive electricity will suck, but no more than the crash and burn, self correction that you guys insist are necessary.

[ClairvoyantCat]

magic? because millions rely on it today

No.  Unicorn blood. 

[EPICVIEW]

magic? because millions rely on it today

No.  Unicorn blood. 

LOL LOL LOL... but you have to catch the unicorn first..thats kinda tricky!!!!

[GuineaPig]

I have some of the lowest energy costs in the world.  In large part because of capital commitment by the government to renewable energy.

[jsem]

I don't think Seth is arguing for ending it immediately, more a gradual process. Plus, solar and wave have real possibilites for supplying energy without harming any eco-systems.

IM sure youre right..  dtismajesty  is a verey nice guy...I just dont want to see society today have to pay so much for energy and Obama is pushing the rates on all enerrgy through the roof..

It's either now, or in the future. Because at some point, not even in a very distant future, all the coal and oil will have been used. What do we do then? Sure, none of us will be alive - but do you have any concern for the future of civilisation? 

[Super Dude]

I don't think Seth is arguing for ending it immediately, more a gradual process. Plus, solar and wave have real possibilites for supplying energy without harming any eco-systems.

IM sure youre right..  dtismajesty  is a verey nice guy...I just dont want to see society today have to pay so much for energy and Obama is pushing the rates on all enerrgy through the roof..

It's either now, or in the future. Because at some point, not even in a very distant future, all the coal and oil will have been used. What do we do then? Sure, none of us will be alive - but do you have any concern for the future of civilisation?  

Actually we will be.  Oil in around 30-40 years, natural gas in around 50-60.  Coal will be around a whopping 200 more years, but I'm not sure you wanna drive a coal-powered car.

[PraXis]

LOL we have 3 fucking centuries of oil left (at current demand).

[Super Dude]

LOL we have 3 fucking centuries of oil left (at current demand).

Oh you.

https://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/04/16/u-s-military-warns-of-oil-shortage-as-early-as-2015/

[El Barto]

Sure.  And if we're willing to build nuclear reactors to power the drilling operations, like the Canadians are having to do, then we might be able to use some of it.  

All the oil in the world is irrelevant as soon as what's left requires more energy to extract than it's capable of producing.  

[Super Dude]

Sure.  And if we're willing to build nuclear reactors to power the drilling operations, like the Canadians are having to do, then we might be able to use some of it.  

All the oil in the world is irrelevant as soon as what's left requires more energy to extract than it's capable of producing.  

Which is why I'd love it if alternative energy schemes starting coming into form soon.

Oh yeah, and Praxis, at current demand.  In ten years or so demand as it stands today will account for maybe around half of world demand, thanks for the rise of developing countries India, China, and the like.

[Perpetual Change]

LOL we have 3 fucking centuries of oil left (at current demand).

That part in paranthesis is hugely important.

[Super Dude]

LOL we have 3 fucking centuries of oil left (at current demand).

That part in paranthesis is hugely important.

And again, even that doesn't quite do it.  I've been taking a class on environmental problems just like and including this one; 50-60 years on current demand, projected 30-40 years with a rise in demand from the usual suspects.

[PraXis]

LOL we have 3 fucking centuries of oil left (at current demand).

That part in paranthesis is hugely important.

The gov't (through military) will make sure we take all that oil and we'll have plenty, so I'm not worried.

[Perpetual Change]

So are you a libertarian, or you just one of those people (like Bush and Obama) who believe in arbitrarily attacking countries so that we can steal their oil? Because, you know, that hasn't been going great for this nation's finances either.

[PraXis]

So are you a libertarian, or you just one of those people (like Bush and Obama) who believe in arbitrarily attacking countries so that we can steal their oil? Because, you know, that hasn't been going great for this nation's finances either.

I hate that our country meddles, but it's unavoidable. I believe in peace through trade. When you have the most powerful military in the world, you tend to use it for anything but peace. 

[ricky]

YES!

[Perpetual Change]

So are you a libertarian, or you just one of those people (like Bush and Obama) who believe in arbitrarily attacking countries so that we can steal their oil? Because, you know, that hasn't been going great for this nation's finances either.

I hate that our country meddles, but it's unavoidable. I believe in peace through trade. When you have the most powerful military in the world, you tend to use it for anything but peace. 

That doesn't at all explain the barbarism you just expressed here:

LOL we have 3 fucking centuries of oil left (at current demand).

That part in paranthesis is hugely important.

The gov't (through military) will make sure we take all that oil and we'll have plenty, so I'm not worried.

[PraXis]

Sure it does. We're going to meddle despite objections by citizens against these military installations. Am I going to stop using oil and sell my SUV? Probably not, since we won't run out of oil in my lifetime.

[Perpetual Change]

So what are you saying? You support the US meddling in these affairs because you like driving your SUV (ew, btw, you're not nearly as cool for doing that as you think, especially in (double ew) jersey), or you just can't wait to benefit via the coincidence that no politician has the balls to make it stop?

[PraXis]

I don't support meddling, but my rants against it won't stop the meddling. I just like bragging about my a luxury SUV.. best vehicle I've ever owned. Plus, I'll be moving to TX soon, so I won't have to worry about any domestic oil shortage.

[Perpetual Change]

Well, there you have it guys:

Here's another example of, when it comes down to it, a libertarian whose willing to forsake the non-interventionist policies supposedly at his ideologies core as long as he doesn't think it'll effect his immediate well-being.

[PraXis]

Moving to a state that produces/refines fuel domestically makes me an interventionist? 

[EPICVIEW]

So what are you saying? You support the US meddling in these affairs because you like driving your SUV (ew, btw, you're not nearly as cool for doing that as you think, especially in (double ew) jersey), or you just can't wait to benefit via the coincidence that no politician has the balls to make it stop?

whats wrong with Jrz? and having an SUV ..?

[Sigz]

Yeah PC, I think you're misunderstanding him; I'm pretty sure he was just saying that the gov't getting the oil is inevitable, not that he supports it.

I don't support meddling, but my rants against it won't stop the meddling.

[PraXis]

So what are you saying? You support the US meddling in these affairs because you like driving your SUV (ew, btw, you're not nearly as cool for doing that as you think, especially in (double ew) jersey), or you just can't wait to benefit via the coincidence that no politician has the balls to make it stop?

whats wrong with Jrz? and having an SUV ..?

NJ sucks. At least it's close to NYC. 

[EPICVIEW]

So what are you saying? You support the US meddling in these affairs because you like driving your SUV (ew, btw, you're not nearly as cool for doing that as you think, especially in (double ew) jersey), or you just can't wait to benefit via the coincidence that no politician has the balls to make it stop?

whats wrong with Jrz? and having an SUV ..?

NJ sucks. At least it's close to NYC. 

I love my State.. love it, all but the taxes.

[Perpetual Change]

Moving to a state that produces/refines fuel domestically makes me an interventionist? 

No, you just don't seem concerned about intervention at all as long as it means you can drive your SUV. If I've got them wrong, then forget it. My grandparents are from Jersey too. I love them, even though they're from Jersey and also drive a huge RV and having similar politics as yours. So it's nothing personal.

So what are you saying? You support the US meddling in these affairs because you like driving your SUV (ew, btw, you're not nearly as cool for doing that as you think, especially in (double ew) jersey), or you just can't wait to benefit via the coincidence that no politician has the balls to make it stop?

whats wrong with Jrz? and having an SUV ..?

NJ sucks. At least it's close to NYC.  

Yes, one of its few redeeming qualities.

[EPICVIEW]

Moving to a state that produces/refines fuel domestically makes me an interventionist? 

No, you just don't seem concerned about intervention at all as long as it means you can drive your SUV. If I've got them wrong, then forget it. My grandparents are from Jersey too. I love them, even though they're from Jersey and also drive a huge RV and having similar politics as yours. So it's nothing personal.

So what are you saying? You support the US meddling in these affairs because you like driving your SUV (ew, btw, you're not nearly as cool for doing that as you think, especially in (double ew) jersey), or you just can't wait to benefit via the coincidence that no politician has the balls to make it stop?

whats wrong with Jrz? and having an SUV ..?

NJ sucks. At least it's close to NYC.  

Yes, one of its few redeeming qualities.

HUH? have you lived in NJ?

[Super Dude]

Yeah PC, I think you're misunderstanding him; I'm pretty sure he was just saying that the gov't getting the oil is inevitable, not that he supports it.

I don't support meddling, but my rants against it won't stop the meddling.

All good and well, but the only meddling he's ranted against is totally unrelated to taking oil from other countries via military action.