Author Topic: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer  (Read 665007 times)

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Offline jdprsaga

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1330 on: April 25, 2011, 08:34:46 PM »
OK, kill me, but I don't think I have seen Minnemann in this video or the trailer. :lol

What's funny about this...?

Anyways, It's great to finally get some footage. Mangini is a beast, love that one handed opening to DoE.

I wonder if that's intentional? Minneman, judging by his FB post, seems to be kinda sour about the whole thing. I wonder if he's not the one who was the 'source' behind that sick drummer magazine article?

My thoughts too and i agree also with the guy who says the rumors about minneman having the possition and later he turn it down..

That would also explain why they looked like they are in cove (no until january) when they call the guy and tell him he is the chosen one..

Offline JPX

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1331 on: April 25, 2011, 08:36:19 PM »
- I really hate the reality style editing.  By far the biggest thing that drags it down.  When the doc breathes for a moment and people actually talk it's great, but most of the time it cuts between establishing shots and comments about things we already get.  Blech.  The worst moment was when they started playing Nightmare.  I felt the tension in the air, and then they cut in narration so it was sufficiently noisy.   >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(  But enough complaining.

Really, your attacking the editing. How exactly would you have liked it to be edited? Maybe you didn't like the font they used either?

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1332 on: April 25, 2011, 08:37:08 PM »
Minnemann seems like one hell of a guy, like every other drummer included in the auditions. That's about it.
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Offline emindead

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1333 on: April 25, 2011, 08:41:37 PM »
- I really hate the reality style editing.  By far the biggest thing that drags it down.  When the doc breathes for a moment and people actually talk it's great, but most of the time it cuts between establishing shots and comments about things we already get.  Blech.  The worst moment was when they started playing Nightmare.  I felt the tension in the air, and then they cut in narration so it was sufficiently noisy.   >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(  But enough complaining.

Really, your attacking the editing. How exactly would you have liked it to be edited? Maybe you didn't like the font they used either?
1st. :chill
2nd. I kinda see where he's coming from. The first part that focus on MP's departure I was worried that this was just going to be very melodramatic... it wasn't. They just wanted the public the understand all the context so they could move on rightly afterwards to the auditions.

When MP said in that 200X interview that in the DT life it sometimes can get "stale"... you can see that JP's face does not agree with him.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1334 on: April 25, 2011, 08:41:38 PM »
Even though people say its Mangini, and things make sense. They could be throwing people off, and Priester could end up the drummer.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1335 on: April 25, 2011, 08:48:12 PM »
Even though people say its Mangini, and things make sense. They could be throwing people off, and Priester could end up the drummer.
Yes, yes, yes, NO
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Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1336 on: April 25, 2011, 08:50:30 PM »
- I really hate the reality style editing.  By far the biggest thing that drags it down.  When the doc breathes for a moment and people actually talk it's great, but most of the time it cuts between establishing shots and comments about things we already get.  Blech.  The worst moment was when they started playing Nightmare.  I felt the tension in the air, and then they cut in narration so it was sufficiently noisy.   >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(  But enough complaining.
I agree.  It's funny.  Now that I no longer watch any broadcast television, I've lost any tolerance I might have once had for annoying shit.  I hate commercials more than I ever did, and the bogus melodrama that has to be in every single program now makes me want to hurl.  There were 10 things in that 20 minutes that made me cringe.  I just want to see what happened.  I don't want to see soap opera theatrics.  

I get where you're coming from.  I absolutely loathe reality TV...drives me freaking nutz.  That being said, I perceive this more as a documentary than RTV.  Honestly... imagine for a moment that there's no such thing as RTV.  Would it seem more tolerable then??

Offline OsMosis2259

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1337 on: April 25, 2011, 09:05:24 PM »
- I really hate the reality style editing.  By far the biggest thing that drags it down.  When the doc breathes for a moment and people actually talk it's great, but most of the time it cuts between establishing shots and comments about things we already get.  Blech.  The worst moment was when they started playing Nightmare.  I felt the tension in the air, and then they cut in narration so it was sufficiently noisy.   >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(  But enough complaining.

Really, your attacking the editing. How exactly would you have liked it to be edited? Maybe you didn't like the font they used either?
1st. :chill
2nd. I kinda see where he's coming from. The first part that focus on MP's departure I was worried that this was just going to be very melodramatic... it wasn't. They just wanted the public the understand all the context so they could move on rightly afterwards to the auditions.

When MP said in that 200X interview that in the DT life it sometimes can get "stale"... you can see that JP's face does not agree with him.

Yeah true... I wish it wasn't cut right away after MP said "stale" though.
I remember that interview was from the chaos in motion DVD and after MP said it can be "stale", he also mentioned a positive side after.
In the documentary, they made it look like MP was bored of everything but that interview was way back in 2007.

Offline Aniland

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1338 on: April 25, 2011, 09:08:53 PM »
Even though people say its Mangini, and things make sense. They could be throwing people off, and Priester could end up the drummer.
Yes, yes, yes, NO

Why is Priester the one who has been definitely ruled out?

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1339 on: April 25, 2011, 09:10:14 PM »
Really, your attacking the editing. How exactly would you have liked it to be edited? Maybe you didn't like the font they used either?

Since you asked a question, I'll answer it.

Many of the individual editing choices end up reducing the audience's ability to understand the facts of the situations and feel the emotions of the narrative.  Because we cut between locations so rapidly, we need to see an establishing shot of each location to understand where we are.  Because of this, we lose valuable time that could be spent providing information and telling the story.

A major aspect of reality TV is telling the audience about what's happening rather than showing it.  In the context of reality TV, this is a good thing.  You're trying to take complex events and create a narrative that gives them meaning in a larger context.  If we just see the Jersey Shore cast partying in a club, the camerawork isn't sophisticated to let us see the little pieces of body language that really tell us what's going on.  We need the confessional cuts to keep us up to date.

But the narrative of this documentary is incredibly simple, and because the situations aren't so chaotic they can be filmed in a way we see their subtleties.  Again, the biggest thing I hated was when ANTR started.  Just as someone seeing this for the first time, I got mild chills.  Instead of playing Mangini talking to tell us what we already know, cut to the other band members and their anticipation to make us feel it more.

The biggest problem though is aesthetic.  Dream Theater is a relatively sophisticated band for a relatively sophisticated audience.  Why did whoever was is charge of this creatively feel the need to dumb down the events into a reality TV format?  I feel like the image of the band is cheapened a little bit by the narrative construction.  When Petrucci is talking about Portnoy leaving, we see three cuts to Rudess of him making dramatic faces.  In the actuality of the moment, he was reliving something emotional through Petrucci's story.  But simply to us watching it, the way it's cut it implies "LOOK AT JORDAN FEELING EMOTION.  NOW LOOK AT IT AGAIN.  IT'S DRAMA!"  Drama doesn't come from us being told it's dramatic, it comes from being dramatic.

If you like it, that's fine.  There's no objective reason for you to like or dislike it.  But the editing objectively influences the tone and subtext of the narrative quite a bit, and I don't like the result.  The nuances are few and far between.  And it feels like a lower standard of product than what I'd expect from the band.  Obviously since the documentary brings a lot to the table, it's free, and I appreciate its mere existence I'm going to keep watching.

I remember that interview was from the chaos in motion DVD and after MP said it can be "stale", he also mentioned a positive side after.
In the documentary, they made it look like MP was bored of everything but that interview was way back in 2007.

Yeah, exactly.  MP left for a lot of reasons, and DT becoming stale wasn't even the biggest.  When you reduce the difficulty of comprehensibility to the lowest common denominator, the harder to understand (though not necessarily more complicated) facts and truths aren't expressed, and we ultimately aren't actually told anything important.  In this case, it's actually misleading.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 09:16:02 PM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1340 on: April 25, 2011, 09:34:34 PM »
When they talked about MP leaving, it makes you feel like how they felt. Jaw dropping and just that sense of amazement he said that and meant it. That's good editing IMO, its what they wanted it to be since in Their eyes it was big, like a kid losing his best friend cause he has to move away.

 Then again, be happy they released a behind the scenes video. They could've bluntly said, as others have posted "Our new drummer is....welcome him to the family." It shows their respect for MP and how much they didn't want this. That is good publicity and marketing.

It does seem that the ones who don't like it are the ones who are afraid DT will be mainstream.
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Offline JPX

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1341 on: April 25, 2011, 09:36:37 PM »
Really, your attacking the editing. How exactly would you have liked it to be edited? Maybe you didn't like the font they used either?

Since you asked a question, I'll answer it.

Many of the individual editing choices end up reducing the audience's ability to understand the facts of the situations and feel the emotions of the narrative.  Because we cut between locations so rapidly, we need to see an establishing shot of each location to understand where we are.  Because of this, we lose valuable time that could be spent providing information and telling the story.

A major aspect of reality TV is telling the audience about what's happening rather than showing it.  In the context of reality TV, this is a good thing.  You're trying to take complex events and create a narrative that gives them meaning in a larger context.  If we just see the Jersey Shore cast partying in a club, the camerawork isn't sophisticated to let us see the little pieces of body language that really tell us what's going on.  We need the confessional cuts to keep us up to date.

But the narrative of this documentary is incredibly simple, and because the situations aren't so chaotic they can be filmed in a way we see their subtleties.  Again, the biggest thing I hated was when ANTR started.  Just as someone seeing this for the first time, I got mild chills.  Instead of playing Mangini talking to tell us what we already know, cut to the other band members and their anticipation to make us feel it more.

The biggest problem though is aesthetic.  Dream Theater is a relatively sophisticated band for a relatively sophisticated audience.  Why did whoever was is charge of this creatively feel the need to dumb down the events into a reality TV format?  I feel like the image of the band is cheapened a little bit by the narrative construction.  When Petrucci is talking about Portnoy leaving, we see three cuts to Rudess of him making dramatic faces.  In the actuality of the moment, he was reliving something emotional through Petrucci's story.  But simply to us watching it, the way it's cut it implies "LOOK AT JORDAN FEELING EMOTION.  NOW LOOK AT IT AGAIN.  IT'S DRAMA!"  Drama doesn't come from us being told it's dramatic, it comes from being dramatic.

If you like it, that's fine.  There's no objective reason for you to like or dislike it.  But the editing objectively influences the tone and subtext of the narrative quite a bit, and I don't like the result.  The nuances are few and far between.  And it feels like a lower standard of product than what I'd expect from the band.  Obviously since the documentary brings a lot to the table, it's free, and I appreciate its mere existence I'm going to keep watching.

I remember that interview was from the chaos in motion DVD and after MP said it can be "stale", he also mentioned a positive side after.
In the documentary, they made it look like MP was bored of everything but that interview was way back in 2007.

Yeah, exactly.  MP left for a lot of reasons, and DT becoming stale wasn't even the biggest.  When you reduce the difficulty of comprehensibility to the lowest common denominator, the harder to understand (though not necessarily more complicated) facts and truths aren't expressed, and we ultimately aren't actually told anything important.  In this case, it's actually misleading.

I understand how editing affects a visual sequence... I just think your trying too hard.

And location shots are standard, especially when the "characters" are in different cities/states/countries/continents.

Also not every piece of non-fictional drama is 'reality television'

Just enjoy it for what it is.

Offline JPX

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1342 on: April 25, 2011, 09:38:59 PM »
Yeah, exactly.  MP left for a lot of reasons, and DT becoming stale wasn't even the biggest.

Then what was the biggest reason?

Offline TL

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1343 on: April 25, 2011, 09:46:53 PM »
I don't understand why some people are still comparing it to reality TV, especially since we've seen the first section of it, and it's nothing like reality TV. See, there's this thing called a documentary...

I mean, yes, some editing choices could have been better, but it just feels like some people had already decided they weren't going to like it after seeing the trailer, and are going out of their way to find things to dislike about it.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1344 on: April 25, 2011, 09:49:56 PM »
Yeah, exactly.  MP left for a lot of reasons, and DT becoming stale wasn't even the biggest.

Then what was the biggest reason?

He felt the personal chemistry of the band wasn't working.

""Honestly, it had nothing to do with the music itself or the musical chemistry within the band. I was always very inspired when writing and recording together and am as proud of our last few albums as anything else in the catalog. It really was more of the behind-the-scenes, personal relationships within the band. Yes, on the surface it may seem that life was great and full steam ahead for Dream Theater... things like playing Download and Wembley, the recent [Iron] Maiden tour in the U.S., Top 10 entry on Billboard were all nice feathers in the cap... but beneath the surface, there was a lot of friction and burn-out. I mean, we have one bandmember that would literally not even sit in the same room with the rest of us for years now and we'd only see him on stage or at meet-and-greets...and then other members just doing a lot of complaining about the day-to-day stuff... To me, these are obvious signs of wear and tear and a need for a break from each other in order to recharge the batteries and reignite the flame. On the opposite hand, I would go out on tour with Transatlantic or Avenged Sevenfold and all of the band members are hanging out, eating meals together and enjoying each other's company."

I don't understand why some people are still comparing it to reality TV, especially since we've seen the first section of it, and it's nothing like reality TV. See, there's this thing called a documentary...

I mean, yes, some editing choices could have been better, but it just feels like some people had already decided they weren't going to like it after seeing the trailer, and are going out of their way to find things to dislike about it.

I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.
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Offline SystematicThought

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1345 on: April 25, 2011, 09:55:04 PM »
I always just thought that JM being off in his own world was just accepted. Not something to be criticized
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1346 on: April 25, 2011, 09:57:14 PM »

I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.

I do (not a lot, but enough), and I can say that this didn't strike me as being like reality TV that much.  

And looking at that quote of Portnoy's again, it appears as if he was the only one who thought there was friction, burn out or wear and tear, since the others all look happy and ready to continue rocking. :metal

P.S. Except for the forever-stoic John Myung. :P
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 10:02:51 PM by KevShmev »

Offline JPX

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1347 on: April 25, 2011, 10:00:25 PM »
""Honestly, it had nothing to do with the music itself or the musical chemistry within the band. I was always very inspired when writing and recording together and am as proud of our last few albums as anything else in the catalog. It really was more of the behind-the-scenes, personal relationships within the band. Yes, on the surface it may seem that life was great and full steam ahead for Dream Theater... things like playing Download and Wembley, the recent [Iron] Maiden tour in the U.S., Top 10 entry on Billboard were all nice feathers in the cap... but beneath the surface, there was a lot of friction and burn-out. I mean, we have one bandmember that would literally not even sit in the same room with the rest of us for years now and we'd only see him on stage or at meet-and-greets...and then other members just doing a lot of complaining about the day-to-day stuff... To me, these are obvious signs of wear and tear and a need for a break from each other in order to recharge the batteries and reignite the flame. On the opposite hand, I would go out on tour with Transatlantic or Avenged Sevenfold and all of the band members are hanging out, eating meals together and enjoying each other's company."

Fair enough, never saw that quote. It's stuff like that that makes me excited for the MP-less era of DT...but that's another topic.

Offline TL

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1348 on: April 25, 2011, 10:03:57 PM »
Quote
I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.
I've seen enough to say that this doc really doesn't feel like reality TV. It feels like a documentary.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1349 on: April 25, 2011, 10:05:38 PM »

I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.

I do (not a lot, but enough), and I can say that this didn't strike me as being like reality TV that much.  

To be fair, once Mangini gets into the room the editing becomes much more stable.  At that point, while I don't like it, I understand why the decisions were made primarily due to time constraints more than anything else.

Quote
I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.
I've seen enough to say that this doc really doesn't feel like reality TV. It feels like a documentary.

Maybe TV documentaries are different from movie documentaries.  Movie documentaries don't seem to have the same degree of hyper-charged pace and oversimplification.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1350 on: April 25, 2011, 10:09:42 PM »
Its a webisode documentary. I know what reality tv is and its not that. People think that because of the voice, editing, and how clear the videos look.
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Offline theanalogkid7

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1351 on: April 25, 2011, 10:37:46 PM »
I just rewatched the episode, and I have to say, Mangini seemed like a kid meeting his heroes.  It was so awesome.  The way his face lights up when he's talking about wanting to know about the results cause he's "very excited about this" makes me want to pull for him even more.
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Offline ironsam

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1352 on: April 25, 2011, 10:39:05 PM »
@Reapsta: you come off as a quite pretenious

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1353 on: April 25, 2011, 10:56:49 PM »
@Reapsta: you come off as a quite pretenious

I refuse to be insulted by someone who can't be bothered to use proper spelling and punctuation.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1354 on: April 25, 2011, 10:58:13 PM »
@Reapsta: you come off as a quite pretenious

I refuse to be insulted by someone who can't be bothered to use proper spelling and punctuation.

I love the irony of this post and that fact that Reapsta isn't pretentious...it's such irony.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1355 on: April 25, 2011, 11:00:04 PM »
Well, reap, you CAN be pretty pretenious at times. Just sayin'.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1356 on: April 25, 2011, 11:00:16 PM »
 :lol at Reap and James.

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1357 on: April 25, 2011, 11:04:07 PM »
P.S. Except for the forever-stoic John Myung. :P

At least he spoke :P

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1358 on: April 25, 2011, 11:13:12 PM »
Well, reap, you CAN be pretty pretenious at times. Just sayin'.

Don't you dare belittle my opinions.
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Offline The Silent Cody

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1359 on: April 25, 2011, 11:32:23 PM »
Four new pages through the night in Poland... and nothing really important ;) deleted post from Marco and announcement about episode 2 tomorrow ;) going for breakfast :) waiting for the 2 episode ;) and I'm happy that JLB finished next 3 tracks, that gives us 4 together ;)

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1360 on: April 25, 2011, 11:40:48 PM »
Well, reap, you CAN be pretty pretenious at times. Just sayin'.

Don't you dare belittle my opinions.

There you go with that preteniuty again.  ;)

Offline Aniland

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1361 on: April 25, 2011, 11:46:00 PM »
Dream Theater fans are so ornery.

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1362 on: April 25, 2011, 11:52:11 PM »
Look, Peter Wildoer is online I think from the time that episode 1 appeared ;) I know why - he wants to have the longest "total time logged in" :) I remember there was even a threat on DTF.net in which we posting our total login time ;)maybe he wants to resurrect it, and win just from the start  :biggrin:

Offline tri.ad

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1363 on: April 26, 2011, 12:13:28 AM »
Well, reap, you CAN be pretty pretenious at times. Just sayin'.

Don't you dare belittle my opinions.

Whoa, unwanted déjà vu right there.
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Offline ariich

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Re: An Exclusive Look into The Band’s Search for a New Drummer
« Reply #1364 on: April 26, 2011, 12:39:53 AM »

I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.

I do (not a lot, but enough), and I can say that this didn't strike me as being like reality TV that much. 

To be fair, once Mangini gets into the room the editing becomes much more stable.  At that point, while I don't like it, I understand why the decisions were made primarily due to time constraints more than anything else.

Quote
I'm assuming you don't watch any reality TV.
I've seen enough to say that this doc really doesn't feel like reality TV. It feels like a documentary.

Maybe TV documentaries are different from movie documentaries.  Movie documentaries don't seem to have the same degree of hyper-charged pace and oversimplification.
They're definitely a different beast entirely. Movie docs have a much bigger budget, and less time constraint. I have no idea why you would compare this to those.

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.