Lord of the Rings

[ErHaO]

I recently rewatched the Hobbit Trilogy and actually had a great time. Watched the extended ultra HD releases (extended for the first time). The films appear to look a (bit) less fake due to the better coloration (though the third still looks the worst, unfortunately). I feel the films do look significantly different in these releases. And treating the whole thing as a ten episode series makes it flow much better. I actually thought the ultimate battle was much more engaging because the added scenes make it a much coherent, enjoyable thing. And I think the actual battle was a bit more than an hour, which feels good if you treat the whole thing as a 9 hour series watched in a weekend or so (immediately viewing the climax to Smaug works much better too, rather than viewing it a year later in the cinama). And there are some fantastic performances in these films.

I originally loved the first Hobbit, enjoyed the second, hated the third btw (only watched them in the cinema).

[MoraWintersoul]

I remember people complaining about Elves at Helms Deep completely ruining the movie adaption, now it's Elves having the wrong hair cut ruining their childhood 

Is it really that hard for a billion dollar production to give a third (I'm assuming) of the character cast some nice flat human hair wigs though? When you see a scene set in Rivendell in the LotR movies and everyone has long shiny hair, that's part of the look.

I really don't mind racially diverse casting, most of the film industry in the past few years has been reduced to remakes and adaptations of properties full of white people, and actors who aren't white have to work in these conditions. That's not what I'm complaining about when I talk about the look, though it would be nice if they would make it make sense, and take, say, a few important families or a whole branch of Elves like the Sindar and make them all different.

PJ took some huge creative liberties with the plot and some of the characters, and yeah, something like Elves in Helms Deep is a problem there because they take you out of the immersion and go against one of the core elements of the book, which is that Elves are in soft retirement from the world and not there to solve problems or take so much part in the action that they should leave their home that needs defending and go and help humans. In fact, it goes against another changed part in the movie, where Elrond is convincing Arwen to go with the rest of their kin right now - so Elves that still have business in Middle Earth are actively leaving and not waiting at all but at the same time they are so involved that they send troops to fight with humans? And they don't really add anything or solve any excitement/pacing problems in Tolkien's plot - Helm's Deep is already an exciting filmable part of the story full of moving parts and they are already expecting an influx of warriors to come in, so it's just a plot point that repeats itself.

But PJ is forgiven for these small sins by most of the fandom because every place and character had the look and feel of the books, while still being perfectly acceptable to audiences at the time; and while one or two core elements of the books have been messed with in a few isolated plot points, not all of them have, and the most important ones have been preserved. In fact, it's possible that when this is over we will start looking at LotR movies like the one successful adaptation of a popular fantasy book. Nothing else ever came close and I don't think this will either.

[faizoff]

Question for the movie fans, I just finished another rewatch of the Fellowship of the Ring Extended edition, though the edition doesn't matter for my question. When the fellowship are going by boat down the river after meeting Galadriel, they say they need to cross the river to continue their journey. Why don't they just bank the boats in the first place? I mean they're already on the river, can't they just wade to the left and camp there? They camp the night on the opposite side and say we'll cross the river in the morning and that ends up splitting the fellowship with the capture of Merry & Pippin and Boromir's death. I just thought it was odd unless I'm mistaking the logistics of the journey. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Podaar]

The short answer is Orc infested country on the East bank. The west is presumably safer but they weren’t aware of Saruman’s treachery and him sending out the Uruks.

[faizoff]

Now that you mention it, I think there was some dialogue referring to the orcs presence and they wanted to wait it out on the other side. It's just that the way they shot it, it was right across where they stopped and seemed like a weird thing to just not have stopped their instead.

[MirrorMask]

People are remembering elves at Helm's Deep, but 20 years later I'm still hung up on not showing the Witchking breaking down the gates of Minas Tirith and facing Gandalf alone. It was such a cinematic scene that all PJ had to do was film it the way it was written in the book. It would have been beyond epic.

[faizoff]

People are remembering elves at Helm's Deep, but 20 years later I'm still hung up on not showing the Witchking breaking down the gates of Minas Tirith and facing Gandalf alone. It was such a cinematic scene that all PJ had to do was film it the way it was written in the book. It would have been beyond epic.

Care to share the passage from the book? I've only read the first book and that was a long time ago. The Witch King and Gandalf encounter is in the Extended Edition of ROTK, is that how it's in the book?

[MirrorMask]

People are remembering elves at Helm's Deep, but 20 years later I'm still hung up on not showing the Witchking breaking down the gates of Minas Tirith and facing Gandalf alone. It was such a cinematic scene that all PJ had to do was film it the way it was written in the book. It would have been beyond epic.

Care to share the passage from the book? I've only read the first book and that was a long time ago. The Witch King and Gandalf encounter is in the Extended Edition of ROTK, is that how it's in the book?

Nope, in the book is way more cool, badass, dramatic and epic, and not a random CGI fight as shown in the extended edition:



Thrice he cried. Thrice the great ram boomed. And suddenly upon the last stroke the Gate of Gondor broke. As if stricken by some blasting spell it burst asunder: there was a flash of searing lightning, and the doors tumbled in riven fragments to the ground.

In rode the Lord of the Nazgul. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgul, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dinen.

‘You cannot enter here,’ said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. ‘Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!’

The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! He had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible it was set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.

‘Old fool!’ he said. ‘Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!’ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin’s sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.

[faizoff]

Hmm That is a great passage but I can see that not working for the movie honestly. Some of that language and setting are already very similar to the encounter with the Balrog so it wouldn't have that much of an effect in ROTK when you've already seen how it went in the Fellowship. Maybe PJ felt compelled to film the encounter regardless and then it didn't flow well for the main theatrical cut which is why it's included in the the Extended Edition.

[jammindude]

Hmm That is a great passage but I can see that not working for the movie honestly. Some of that language and setting are already very similar to the encounter with the Balrog so it wouldn't have that much of an effect in ROTK when you've already seen how it went in the Fellowship. Maybe PJ felt compelled to film the encounter regardless and then it didn't flow well for the main theatrical cut which is why it's included in the the Extended Edition.

I honestly thought the same thing as I was reading it. Too many similarities to the Balrog scene. It would’ve completely fallen flat.

[HOF]

Hmm That is a great passage but I can see that not working for the movie honestly. Some of that language and setting are already very similar to the encounter with the Balrog so it wouldn't have that much of an effect in ROTK when you've already seen how it went in the Fellowship. Maybe PJ felt compelled to film the encounter regardless and then it didn't flow well for the main theatrical cut which is why it's included in the the Extended Edition.

I honestly thought the same thing as I was reading it. Too many similarities to the Balrog scene. It would’ve completely fallen flat.

I don’t remember the ROTK movie well enough to know this, but did they take this interaction out altogether or just change it somewhow?

I don’t think it’s too similar at all. The Balrog scene was the “end” of Gandalf the Gray. The audience believes Gandalf to be defeated afterward. This scene is Gandalf the White standing his ground before the Witch King, and what follows is the complete turning of the tide in the battle/war.

[MirrorMask]

Exactly! it shows how really powerful Gandalf is, how in the darkest hour even the most corageous of men flee, and Gandalf dares to stand against the utmost terror.

No enemy had ever breached the gates of Minas Tirith, it's a pivotal moment in Gondor's history. It's the nazis reaching Paris, or the siege of Dunkirk. When all hope seems lost, Gandalf is there ready to face the Nazgul..... and finally, Rohan comes, and the Witch King has to move away and direct his attention to the battle that ensues (but not enough attention to a little motherfucker of an hobbit and his dagger, evidently).

[soupytwist]

I remember people complaining about Elves at Helms Deep completely ruining the movie adaption, now it's Elves having the wrong hair cut ruining their childhood 

Is it really that hard for a billion dollar production to give a third (I'm assuming) of the character cast some nice flat human hair wigs though? When you see a scene set in Rivendell in the LotR movies and everyone has long shiny hair, that's part of the look.

I really don't mind racially diverse casting, most of the film industry in the past few years has been reduced to remakes and adaptations of properties full of white people, and actors who aren't white have to work in these conditions. That's not what I'm complaining about when I talk about the look, though it would be nice if they would make it make sense, and take, say, a few important families or a whole branch of Elves like the Sindar and make them all different.

PJ took some huge creative liberties with the plot and some of the characters, and yeah, something like Elves in Helms Deep is a problem there because they take you out of the immersion and go against one of the core elements of the book, which is that Elves are in soft retirement from the world and not there to solve problems or take so much part in the action that they should leave their home that needs defending and go and help humans. In fact, it goes against another changed part in the movie, where Elrond is convincing Arwen to go with the rest of their kin right now - so Elves that still have business in Middle Earth are actively leaving and not waiting at all but at the same time they are so involved that they send troops to fight with humans? And they don't really add anything or solve any excitement/pacing problems in Tolkien's plot - Helm's Deep is already an exciting filmable part of the story full of moving parts and they are already expecting an influx of warriors to come in, so it's just a plot point that repeats itself.

But PJ is forgiven for these small sins by most of the fandom because every place and character had the look and feel of the books, while still being perfectly acceptable to audiences at the time; and while one or two core elements of the books have been messed with in a few isolated plot points, not all of them have, and the most important ones have been preserved. In fact, it's possible that when this is over we will start looking at LotR movies like the one successful adaptation of a popular fantasy book. Nothing else ever came close and I don't think this will either.

I always felt the elves in the movies were rather different from the ones on the page.  In the movies the elves came more across as Vulcans and to be honest it's a change that probably works for the movies.

[faizoff]

Hmm That is a great passage but I can see that not working for the movie honestly. Some of that language and setting are already very similar to the encounter with the Balrog so it wouldn't have that much of an effect in ROTK when you've already seen how it went in the Fellowship. Maybe PJ felt compelled to film the encounter regardless and then it didn't flow well for the main theatrical cut which is why it's included in the the Extended Edition.

I honestly thought the same thing as I was reading it. Too many similarities to the Balrog scene. It would’ve completely fallen flat.

I don’t remember the ROTK movie well enough to know this, but did they take this interaction out altogether or just change it somewhow?

I don’t think it’s too similar at all. The Balrog scene was the “end” of Gandalf the Gray. The audience believes Gandalf to be defeated afterward. This scene is Gandalf the White standing his ground before the Witch King, and what follows is the complete turning of the tide in the battle/war.

In the theatrical edition, there is no Gandalf vs The Witch King. In the extended version, they do meet one on one and it ends with the horns like in the passage but the location of the meeting is different.


When I say similar I'm referring to Gandalf's lines like "You cannot pass"' in the Balrog scene vs "You cannot enter here" with the Witch King. It probably could've been an epic buildup and scene on its own but maybe not so much in the context of the movie.


Truthfully who's to say they didn't plan for it to be that way like it was in the book for the movie but in the end it didn't work out. I used to think the extended edition had pretty much all the extra footage they shot, turns out there's still a buttload of footage out there locked in a vault somewhere. The original cut was apparently over 4 1/2 hours long and they had to trim it down to 3 hours for the theatrical release. ~50 mins of that are in the extended editions, so there's still a ton of footage out there for the last movie.


I haven't watched the theatrical cuts in ages as all previous times I've watched the movie it's been the extended editions.

[HOF]

I don’t remember the ROTK movie well enough to know this, but did they take this interaction out altogether or just change it somewhow?

I don’t think it’s too similar at all. The Balrog scene was the “end” of Gandalf the Gray. The audience believes Gandalf to be defeated afterward. This scene is Gandalf the White standing his ground before the Witch King, and what follows is the complete turning of the tide in the battle/war.

In the theatrical edition, there is no Gandalf vs The Witch King. In the extended version, they do meet one on one and it ends with the horns like in the passage but the location of the meeting is different.


When I say similar I'm referring to Gandalf's lines like "You cannot pass"' in the Balrog scene vs "You cannot enter here" with the Witch King. It probably could've been an epic buildup and scene on its own but maybe not so much in the context of the movie.


Truthfully who's to say they didn't plan for it to be that way like it was in the book for the movie but in the end it didn't work out. I used to think the extended edition had pretty much all the extra footage they shot, turns out there's still a buttload of footage out there locked in a vault somewhere. The original cut was apparently over 4 1/2 hours long and they had to trim it down to 3 hours for the theatrical release. ~50 mins of that are in the extended editions, so there's still a ton of footage out there for the last movie.


I haven't watched the theatrical cuts in ages as all previous times I've watched the movie it's been the extended editions.

Which goes back to my point a little while back that the novels could have been given a much more thorough treatment in a multi-season TV series than in a movie. I suppose the other option would have been to split up the six “books” and do six different movies.

[hefdaddy42]

I don’t remember the ROTK movie well enough to know this, but did they take this interaction out altogether or just change it somewhow?

I don’t think it’s too similar at all. The Balrog scene was the “end” of Gandalf the Gray. The audience believes Gandalf to be defeated afterward. This scene is Gandalf the White standing his ground before the Witch King, and what follows is the complete turning of the tide in the battle/war.

In the theatrical edition, there is no Gandalf vs The Witch King. In the extended version, they do meet one on one and it ends with the horns like in the passage but the location of the meeting is different.


When I say similar I'm referring to Gandalf's lines like "You cannot pass"' in the Balrog scene vs "You cannot enter here" with the Witch King. It probably could've been an epic buildup and scene on its own but maybe not so much in the context of the movie.


Truthfully who's to say they didn't plan for it to be that way like it was in the book for the movie but in the end it didn't work out. I used to think the extended edition had pretty much all the extra footage they shot, turns out there's still a buttload of footage out there locked in a vault somewhere. The original cut was apparently over 4 1/2 hours long and they had to trim it down to 3 hours for the theatrical release. ~50 mins of that are in the extended editions, so there's still a ton of footage out there for the last movie.


I haven't watched the theatrical cuts in ages as all previous times I've watched the movie it's been the extended editions.

Which goes back to my point a little while back that the novels could have been given a much more thorough treatment in a multi-season TV series than in a movie. I suppose the other option would have been to split up the six “books” and do six different movies.

Neither of those were realistic options back then. 

It was considered virtually insane to make the films at the same time.

[HOF]

I don’t remember the ROTK movie well enough to know this, but did they take this interaction out altogether or just change it somewhow?

I don’t think it’s too similar at all. The Balrog scene was the “end” of Gandalf the Gray. The audience believes Gandalf to be defeated afterward. This scene is Gandalf the White standing his ground before the Witch King, and what follows is the complete turning of the tide in the battle/war.

In the theatrical edition, there is no Gandalf vs The Witch King. In the extended version, they do meet one on one and it ends with the horns like in the passage but the location of the meeting is different.


When I say similar I'm referring to Gandalf's lines like "You cannot pass"' in the Balrog scene vs "You cannot enter here" with the Witch King. It probably could've been an epic buildup and scene on its own but maybe not so much in the context of the movie.


Truthfully who's to say they didn't plan for it to be that way like it was in the book for the movie but in the end it didn't work out. I used to think the extended edition had pretty much all the extra footage they shot, turns out there's still a buttload of footage out there locked in a vault somewhere. The original cut was apparently over 4 1/2 hours long and they had to trim it down to 3 hours for the theatrical release. ~50 mins of that are in the extended editions, so there's still a ton of footage out there for the last movie.


I haven't watched the theatrical cuts in ages as all previous times I've watched the movie it's been the extended editions.

Which goes back to my point a little while back that the novels could have been given a much more thorough treatment in a multi-season TV series than in a movie. I suppose the other option would have been to split up the six “books” and do six different movies.

Neither of those were realistic options back then. 

It was considered virtually insane to make the films at the same time.

I agree, but I do think the current environment would better support a more expansive series.

[jingle.boy]

New 3 min trailer released. I’m intrigued enough. I’ll watch this in the Fall.

[gmillerdrake]

New 3 min trailer released. I’m intrigued enough. I’ll watch this in the Fall.

I’m sure I will watch…..but something about these trailers seems ‘off’ to me. Like, they’re over produced and/or perfected. Doesn’t seem gritty enough. It’s too clean

[Pettor]

Yeah, kind of looks like Marvel in Middle Earth. I don't get the right feeling about it. Also miss Howard Shore. He was hired for the TV-series but supposedly only worked on the main theme. There's a lot to be on the fence about but at least hope for the best.

[gmillerdrake]

New 3 min trailer released. I’m intrigued enough. I’ll watch this in the Fall.

I’m sure I will watch…..but something about these trailers seems ‘off’ to me. Like, they’re over produced and/or perfected. Doesn’t seem gritty enough. It’s too clean

As more and more footage and trailers have been released heading into this series premiere.....I'm sticking with what I said back in July. These trailers have done nothing for me to 'inspire' me to want to watch...in fact....it's the opposite. The 'look' of it all is just off. I know it's a fantasy show and maybe it's the look they're shooting for....but, it's really off putting to me. Not to mention the centerpiece character they've been showing doesn't portray any type of charisma or likability....albeit has been a limited and select amount of footage and clips to judge from....but...I'd think you'd want to pick some of the more inspiring sections to show in order to entice folks.

I'll give it a go for sure.....but, unfortunately the show already has a small hole to dig out of from my first impressions of it.

[faizoff]

Series will premiere tomorrow with two episodes I believe, very curious to see how they are. With just 8 episodes I'm hoping they are at least compelling.

[pg1067]

Series will premiere tomorrow with two episodes I believe, very curious to see how they are. With just 8 episodes I'm hoping they are at least compelling.

For purposes of avoiding confusion, I may wait until the current season of the Game of Thrones prequel is done before starting this.

[lordxizor]

Does anyone know if they are planning to release one episode a week? I don't currently have Prime and would prefer to pay for only one month to catch all of this.

[faizoff]

Does anyone know if they are planning to release one episode a week? I don't currently have Prime and would prefer to pay for only one month to catch all of this.

It does look like it's released once a week apart from today with two episodes made available. From IMDB it shows there are a total of 8 episodes for the first season.

[Podaar]

I must say, I really enjoyed the first episode. The only thing that was a little off putting was all the male elves with 80’s Wall Street hair cuts. Other than that…

[soupytwist]

Yeah really enjoyed the first episode, everything felt right.  Really impressed.

[Polarbear]

Yeah really enjoyed the first episode, everything felt right.  Really impressed.

Yeah, one of the best looking shows I've ever seen!

However, being vaguely familiar with Silmarillion and the second age of Tolkiens work in general, there are a lot of departures from what was written in Silmarillion. But despite all that, I'm willing to give this a shot and accept this as a different adaptation.

[lonestar]

Got about halfway through the first episode but nodded off and missed a few minutes, so I went to bed. I'll watch it with proper rest tonight, but of what I saw it looks outstanding

[faizoff]

Both episodes visually looked amazing, the music was great. I'm glad they got Howard Shore back, the compositions so far are top notch. I think the episodes need a bit of tightening but otherwise were pretty good.



Minor correction, only the title music is scored by Howard Shore, the rest of the show music is composed by Bear McCreary who I haven't heard of. He's done a great job so far.

[Zook]

Both episodes visually looked amazing, the music was great. I'm glad they got Howard Shore back, the compositions so far are top notch. I think the episodes need a bit of tightening but otherwise were pretty good.



Minor correction, only the title music is scored by Howard Shore, the rest of the show music is composed by Bear McCreary who I haven't heard of. He's done a great job so far.

I think that's the guy who did The Walking Dead theme.

[soupytwist]

Watched episode two now, thought it was absolutely superb - considering they are walking in sacred ground with this show, these first two episodes for me at least really were quite lovely, and I'm completely invested in the narrative and the characters.   Just hope it holds up.

[NoseofNicko]

It’s so annoying how it has become a common thing for a lot of people to downrate movies/shows with black people and strong women to the point that the ratings on rating sites end up being really low when they shouldn’t be. Almost 10 000 1/10 ratings for this on IMDb…

[soupytwist]

It’s so annoying how it has become a common thing for a lot of people to downrate movies/shows with black people and strong women to the point that the ratings on rating sites end up being really low when they shouldn’t be. Almost 10 000 1/10 ratings for this on IMDb…

Most of it is YouTubers trying to drum clicks (and therefore money) by feeding the anger of stupid people.  They actually believe they are fighting a cultural war....

[ErHaO]

First impression is good, waaay better than my admittedly low expectations. It looks sublime on my Oled and the atmosphere is exactly what I associate with LotR.

And yes, online people are ridiculous and twitter is an irredeemable hellhole. I choose to ignore it all and make up my own mind.

Both episodes visually looked amazing, the music was great. I'm glad they got Howard Shore back, the compositions so far are top notch. I think the episodes need a bit of tightening but otherwise were pretty good.



Minor correction, only the title music is scored by Howard Shore, the rest of the show music is composed by Bear McCreary who I haven't heard of. He's done a great job so far.

Bear McReary did the soundtrack for God of War (2018 game), one of my favourite mythology/fantasy soundtracks of all time. They hired the right guy for sure.