"Birther" bill passes in Arizona legislature

[eric42434224]

Oh fuck me. EpicView gets told his way of presenting statistics is dishonest which is very clear and easily demonstrated, and instead of admitting it he's going back to crying about  "Name 5 good things Obama is done!" and "BUT THE ASSOCIATIONS!" Please, never tell anyone to stay on topic again.

Are we really letting this go on here again? Really? Mods?

WTF is going on here.

Im going to ask you to again stop the cursing..and stop period. I have done nothing but discuss the USA poll

 

[EPICVIEW]

PC, you should know by now that the standard of proof is not the same for someone EV likes and someone EV dislikes.

nor is yours, hence how poorly Im treated here. Im strictly talking the subjct

[Ben_Jamin]

Haha this is just too funny. Who fucking cares? Plus it doesn't matter in the bigger picture.

Obama knows this and is focusing on what matters. At least he came up with something for the Health system, doesn't hurt to try. 

Trump is just using this and talking about nothing else. What would he do to help our failing health system?

Also, Its going to take a long time to fix the mess the past presidents made.

[Perpetual Change]

PC,

You can post it all day.. people are not believing it as vaild...Im NOT 62% of America, Im just me.

thats the subject.  call the USA Today show it to them.

USA Today did NOT market the same "mathematical deduction" as drudge did anywhere. The claim that 62 percent are UNSURE is not anywhere in the USA today article. It is not in the hed, lede, or body of the article. Why? Because the way drudge advertised the USA Today article is pretty fucking stupid. They are skewing statistics and lying.

[EPICVIEW]

its very simple..only 38% believe Obama was born here as per the USA Today Poll. in todays paper

that means 62% are UNSURE.. it cant be any clearer no matter how much you stamp your feet

[eric42434224]

PC, you should know by now that the standard of proof is not the same for someone EV likes and someone EV dislikes.

nor is yours, hence how poorly Im treated here. Im strictly talking the subjct

To a reasonable, unbiased, and logical person, the State of Hawaii saying he was born in the US and showing legal documentation is enough.  That is my standard of proof.  Legal documents.
Not sure how my standard of proof is not the same.....I would accept the same from Trump....or ANYONE.

[eric42434224]

its very simple..only 32% believe Obama was born here as per the USA Today Poll. in todays paper

that means 62% are UNSURE.. it cant be any clearer no matter how much you stamp your feet

I think I can sum up most peoples views on this by saying....So Fu@cking What?
What does that poll indicate, regardless of the wacky way you interpret it?
The entire issue is a joke.

[EPICVIEW]

its very simple..only 32% believe Obama was born here as per the USA Today Poll. in todays paper

that means 62% are UNSURE.. it cant be any clearer no matter how much you stamp your feet

So?

so, Obama has a big issue facing him dont ya think? if I was him Id clear this up to the point that its 0% that are unsure

[Ben_Jamin]

I honestly think it is more than Obamas BC.

[EPICVIEW]

I honestly think it is more than Obamas BC.

His approval rating is also horrible.. but based on facts it should be. but thats another subject

[eric42434224]

its very simple..only 32% believe Obama was born here as per the USA Today Poll. in todays paper

that means 62% are UNSURE.. it cant be any clearer no matter how much you stamp your feet

So?

so, Obama has a big issue facing him dont ya think? if I was him Id clear this up to the point that its 0% that are unsure

Like Trump?  This is only an issue with those that have anti-Obama adgendas.

[Perpetual Change]

::sigh::

This won't be in issue in the 2012 election. Because it's bogus. It's been proven again and again. Wait and see. Wanna bet on it?
 

[EPICVIEW]

have a good day

[Adami]

have a good day

If I may ask. How many presidential elections have you voted in?

[Ben_Jamin]

If people read my post earlier, I stated...This matters how?

[eric42434224]

Just to set the record straight...I am not pro or anti Obama.  I am pro common sense, and some of this stuff is absolutely ridiculous.  I would lose so much respect for Obama if he actually took the time and effort to placate these "birther" idiots by going to Hawaii.

[El Barto]

Something I mentioned the other day, EV, is that the birther nonsense is a nightmare for the GOP.  The reason Obama doesn't prove it is because by holding his ground and not playing their game, which won't matter to them anyway, he's letting them continue to throw up a smokescreen that detracts from their perceived strengths.  USA today isn't talking about he differences in how they'd handle the economy.  They're talking about an issue that's been proven false, yet continues to simmer.  

Obama and his advisors should be doing everything they can to help the birthers perpetuate their bullshit.

[Ben_Jamin]

Or not care, and focus on more important things then personal bull shit.

[eric42434224]

Or not care, and focus on more important things then personal bull shit.

I have to admit....I feel that the extreme Obama haters that rant about things like his birth certificate and his jihad push me toward defending Obama, and in doing so, make me a kind of Obama supporter in a way.  Im not campaigning for the guy or anything, but people like EV just push me to being more sympathetic to Obama.  Perhaps it is a natural reaction to move away from stupidity and ignorance....and I end up automatically feeling an allegience toward the target of the stupity and ignorance.

You may be right El Barto.....this just might be a great strategy for Obama and democrats.  Let them keep ranting, and the rational will feel the need to move away.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, I've long thought stuff like drudge and the birthers to be liberal plants. They seem to have done a pretty good job of keeping conservatives from actually talking about issues, at least.

And shit, wasn't it the conservative blogosphere that produced Sarah Palin?

Those guys are stealth-liberals.

[Orbert]

Truly, they seem to be bent on destroying their own party's credibility.

As for the birth certificate issue, I always figured it was "That claim is so absurd that I will not validate it by responding."

The reason why the percentage of Americans who doubt that he was born here is even double digit is because the birthers have been screaming about it for so long, and screaming that he still hasn't provided proof, that people are actually starting to wonder.  Proof has been provided; too many Americans are just morons.  Keep shouting the same thing long enough and people will start to believe it, or at least consider it a possibility.  Doesn't matter if there's a grain of truth in it or not.

[Implode]

Was Obama born in the U.S.? Americans say:

38% Definitely
18% Probably
20% Not Sure Either Way (100-38-18-15-9=20)
15% Probably Not
9% Definitely Not

EV said 62% (100-38) are unsure about whether Obama was born in America.  That is incorrect.  The real number of unsure people is 53% because 9% are sure that he isn't a natural citizen. But I don't think that will persuade you, so let's look at the data through your eyes.  Using the same incorrect logic, 91% (100-9) are unsure whether Obama was not born in America.  What about those statistics?  Just look at the numbers. They decrease as it gets closer to being positive that Obama wasn't born in the U.S.  The opinion obviously leans towards Obama's legitimacy.

And don't just respond with, "But 53% being unsure is still a huge problem."  The only reason people are unsure is because they are constantly being misinformed by birthers.  Americans have likely not even thought about a president's legitimacy in this way before. The fact that the question comes up so often causes the lack of confidence in either direction.

[El Barto]

An interesting irony that I read about earlier was that the so-called long form that people are clamoring for isn't even considered a valid legal document.  If you somehow manage to get yours and take it to any government office as proof of citizenship, they'd tell you to go away and come back with the certification of live birth that was made public long ago.  Somehow I can't seem to shake the notion that if he had presented the one they're now seeking in the first place, they'd be bitching that he never presented the officially accepted document.  There's just no pleasing some people.

Also mentioned was that the birth notices in the paper weren't submitted by individuals.  That was against the rules (not sure why, but we might be seeing the explanation here).  The only way birth notices got printed was when the records were released by the hospital.  A black kid (quite uncommon in 1961 Hawaii) named Barack Hussein Obama was very definitely born in Hawaii on that day. 

[eric42434224]

The only way a person still wont believe after being shown the obvious proof...is if that person does not want to believe.
There are probably "birthers" that probably wont believe unless they are actually able to time travel and witness the birth.
For some, even that would be brushed off as a hoax.  Some have this dislike for Obama engrained in the very fabric of their reality, and I dare say that there is literally nothing that would be accepted.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I locked this topic because it wasn't going anywhere and the posters are starting to attack each other.

PC, you're generally level headed, but you need to calm down. Send me a PM if you want to discuss things further.