Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[ErHaO]

Does this being based on an existing one off book mean this is a planned out story and not something they (seemingly) make up as they go? That might give me a bit more faith.

Well, hold on.  It's based on the first book of a proposed 2 book set.  And we know Martin's track record on finishing things.

So I'd say the chances of the showrunners eventually having to make shit up is pretty high.  But probably not for this first season.

Oh well 

I have little faith in how good the writing/plot direction will be, somehow fantasy shows and films are more often really bad than solid, let alone good. And I say that as someone who really enjoys the Hobbit trilogy a lot of people tend to hate, that to me is so much better than most other fantasy adaptions out there.

I am not sure why though, there are a lot of great mythological/religious films that have a lot in common in terms of concepts. The Northman being a recent example.

[lordxizor]

Martin is as much to blame.  If he'd pulled his finger out and actually wrote more material instead of continuously claiming it's coming soon only for it even now not shown up, things would have been different.

If you sign on to run a show knowing that the series is not complete you need to have a plan for that.  When they started A Dance with Dragons wasn't even out yet, and A Feast for Crows had taken 5 years to complete.  ADwD ended up taking 6 years, and came out the same year the show premiered.  At that point they should have been making plans in case they got ahead of the books, since it was becoming a strong likelihood.

They did. They got told by GRRM how the main plot points would end.

We'll see if/when the books come out.

I wouldn't be shocked if he changes everything in the books to end completely differently just as an FU. But I also don't think the books will ever be finished. At least not by GRRM.

[ErHaO]

I genuinely believe he won't finish the series. Hopefully he has a lot of manuscripts lying around and there is a good writer that can make it a worthy ending.

[MirrorMask]

I genuinely believe he won't finish the series. Hopefully he has a lot of manuscripts lying around and there is a good writer that can make it a worthy ending.

I think The Winds of Winter in 2-3 years might come out. No way he will finish the last book.

[soupytwist]

I genuinely believe he won't finish the series. Hopefully he has a lot of manuscripts lying around and there is a good writer that can make it a worthy ending.

I think The Winds of Winter in 2-3 years might come out. No way he will finish the last book.

This is why I think it's harsh just to label Benioff and Weiss 'two idiots'.  Martin the author of these characters and the guy you'd hope geniunely knows where the story is going has had so far 11 years to finish it up and that's just pure writing.    Benioff and Weiss had like one or two years - not only to write (something that wasn't even their property) they also had to film it,  which for a show like Thrones consists of multiple locations, managing a huge budget and a huge cast.   

[MirrorMask]

Martin knows where the story is going. He needs to write 4000 pages to organically and coherently get there.

That's why he told the main plot points of the major characters to D&D, and they stubbornly stuck to those guidelines rather than letting the story flow from where they already took it.

If you know that Dany's gonna napalm King's Landing, lay the groundwork for it, rather than just having a montage in the opening of the penultimate episode to recall the various instances Dany went dragon-happy on people...

[Grappler]

Martin knows where the story is going. He needs to write 4000 pages to organically and coherently get there.

That's why he told the main plot points of the major characters to D&D, and they stubbornly stuck to those guidelines rather than letting the story flow from where they already took it.

If you know that Dany's gonna napalm King's Landing, lay the groundwork for it, rather than just having a montage in the opening of the penultimate episode to recall the various instances Dany went dragon-happy on people...

Having re-watched the entire series straight through last fall, the one thing I noted was that Dany NEVER followed the advice from any of her advisors - Jorah, Barristan Selmy, Tyrion.  Every time they told her to be merciful, she went the other way and killed people.  Every single time. 

That groundwork was there, but it was small breadcrumbs spread out through the seasons with long gaps in between airings, as opposed to big neon signs to make it obvious.  So it's easy to still root for her, but at the same time, she's making the same exact choices that Joffrey did.

I really feel that GRRM has just given up on the books.  The show told the ending of the story, even if it might be a little different than how he would arrive there.  I honestly think he's built up these theories and prophecies only to have the exact same ending in the books - Jon Snow will be built up to be this chosen one and he's going to just go "no, I don't want it." It proves that just because others (characters and fans) believe you to be the savior, you're allowed to control your own destiny and say no.

[Stadler]

I genuinely believe he won't finish the series. Hopefully he has a lot of manuscripts lying around and there is a good writer that can make it a worthy ending.

I think The Winds of Winter in 2-3 years might come out. No way he will finish the last book.

This is why I think it's harsh just to label Benioff and Weiss 'two idiots'.  Martin the author of these characters and the guy you'd hope geniunely knows where the story is going has had so far 11 years to finish it up and that's just pure writing.    Benioff and Weiss had like one or two years - not only to write (something that wasn't even their property) they also had to film it,  which for a show like Thrones consists of multiple locations, managing a huge budget and a huge cast.

I get that, but that's their JOB.  If they can't handle it, don't do it.  I don't call them idiots for the work load, I call them idiots for opting for the easy way out in a lot of cases.  I've already cited one example, a discrete one in one episode, but there were others, including more drawn out examples.   I didn't like how they handled Dany.  GRRM's themes are subtler, deeper, and sometimes not crystal clear (they may not even exist, haha).   The idiots opted for what I thought were Hollywood tropes, rather than organic extensions of the threads that were laid down.  My opinion only, and I understand if people disagree.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, Dany went full Targaryen more than once, but we always rooted for her. She was always framed as the protagonist, and the music also underlined her big moments. I can't remember a moment where Dany went Dracarys and the score was underlying what a worrying situation it was. And, after all, she took down people we could see as "bad guys" - slavers, tyrants, rich corrupted people... there's a big difference in spending the series burning down slavers and rapists and violent rivals, and methodically carpet-bombing with fire an entire town that has already surrended. The worst she's done was burning down the Tarlys, I agree that it was a worying moment, but the slip to the "dark side" was too sudden for me, and especially without cause. If only the battle was still raging, if only Cersei was winning, if only some of her friends died... no, she went, won the battle alone in 10 minutes, and then with the city surrendering and no one posing a threat anymore, she razed it to the ground.

I would have welcomed a "the end justifies the means" kind of situation, but she burnt down King's Landing just because, and from her looks we were supposed to decipher that she realized all her family had lost and got pissed because of it (this comes from the authors as her actual motivation).

[soupytwist]

I get that, but that's their JOB.  If they can't handle it, don't do it.

Nah I disagree.  Their job was to adapt - which I think most agree they were doing a good job.  Yeah they could have waited for Martin to finish the story before starting - but, well that would have been a long wait, or never happen........Martin said after 'A Dance with Dragons' was published....'the last two books will go a quicker than this one has' and predicted 'three years to finish the next one'.   It's 11 years later.....

[hefdaddy42]

I get that, but that's their JOB.  If they can't handle it, don't do it.

Nah I disagree.  Their job was to adapt - which I think most agree they were doing a good job.  Yeah they could have waited for Martin to finish the story before starting - but, well that would have been a long wait, or never happen........Martin said after 'A Dance with Dragons' was published....'the last two books will go a quicker than this one has' and predicted 'three years to finish the next one'.   It's 11 years later.....

I agree with this.  They didn't do a great job with the last 2 seasons, but they were forced into doing a completely different job than the one they signed up for.

[cramx3]

They signed up without a finished story, they knew what risks they were taking when doing that and by doing so they hold responsibility in my eyes.

[Chino]

And at the end of season 6, HBO gave them 40 more episodes (4, 10 episode seasons), and they said "nah, we can do it in 13. We have Star Wars stuff to make". Then they got dropped from the Star Wars project. They rushed it because their hearts weren't in it anymore.

[fadetoblackdude7]

And at the end of season 6, HBO gave them 40 more episodes (4, 10 episode seasons), and they said "nah, we and do it in 13. We have Star Wars stuff to make". Then they got dropped from the Star Wars project. They rushed it because their hearts weren't in it anymore.

Instead of half-assing it then, they should’ve given it to someone who’s heart was in it!

[cramx3]

And at the end of season 6, HBO gave them 40 more episodes (4, 10 episode seasons), and they said "nah, we and do it in 13. We have Star Wars stuff to make". Then they got dropped from the Star Wars project. They rushed it because their hearts weren't in it anymore.

Instead of half-assing it then, they should’ve given it to someone who’s heart was in it!

Easier said than done to turn it over at the end.  I don't think that's a realistic option for a better end result.  I think a lot of the actors/actresses were also ready to move on from the show.  The show just got so big and everyone was wanted for something else.  I wonder if they all look back now and think maybe it would have been better for their careers if they didn't rush the ending.

[ErHaO]

They should at least have went with a longer season.

And yes, they originally had something to adapt. But during those 8 years of making the series, surely they could've realised somewhere along the line that maybe it was a good idea to have a competent writer continue the story. The last book was from 2011 throughout the entire production. It really isn't like "oh oops, during this final season it turns out the last book isn't out yet".

I personally can appreciate season 5-7 quite a bit, despite it decidely being more "hollywood blockbuster" writing. Season 8 is just trash in almost all regards but the amazing actors and cgi. 

And Game of Thrones is one of those shows were they really could've gotten away with killing off main characters in case an actor wanted out, which is quite a common thing in long running series anyways.

[Chino]

Have you guys ever seen their reactions at the table readings of the scripts?

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-series-kit-harington-hbo-1235297033/

A “Game of Thrones” spinoff series based around Jon Snow is in early development at HBO, Variety has confirmed.

Kit Harington is attached to reprise his role as the fan-favorite hero in the live-action show, which would take place after the events of “Game of Thrones” — potentially opening up what many thought was an iron-clad ending to the wildly popular series.

In the final season of “Game of Thrones,” Snow realized his true identity and that he could be an heir to the Iron Throne. The series concluded with his exile from Westeros as he rides into the Haunted Forest with Ghost and the Wildlings to begin a new life.

Kinda feels like a attempt to redeem Jon and his story in GOT and i'm all for it but yea, we'll see.

[cramx3]

Yeah, also file that under wait and see.  This kind of feels like a cash grab type of show, but I think there's some potential for a good story. 

[gmillerdrake]

Yeah, also file that under wait and see.  This kind of feels like a cash grab type of show, but I think there's some potential for a good story.

Same thought. Potential? Sure there is…..but we’ve seen this show without GRRM’s writing behind it to support it with this character and it was average at best.

[lonestar]

Saw that... I'd rather follow Arya going east, but that's just me.

[gmillerdrake]

Saw that... I'd rather follow Arya going east, but that's just me.

Agreed. Would much rather see that.

[hefdaddy42]

Saw that... I'd rather follow Arya going east, but that's just me.

In fact, it is NOT just you.

[Chino]

I'd rather a reality docuseries about Hot Pie opening his own bakery.

[cramx3]

I'd rather a reality docuseries about Hot Pie opening his own bakery.

 

[KevShmev]

I'd rather a reality docuseries about Hot Pie opening his own bakery.

And it should be called "It's Really Good!"

[ErHaO]

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-series-kit-harington-hbo-1235297033/

A “Game of Thrones” spinoff series based around Jon Snow is in early development at HBO, Variety has confirmed.

Kit Harington is attached to reprise his role as the fan-favorite hero in the live-action show, which would take place after the events of “Game of Thrones” — potentially opening up what many thought was an iron-clad ending to the wildly popular series.

In the final season of “Game of Thrones,” Snow realized his true identity and that he could be an heir to the Iron Throne. The series concluded with his exile from Westeros as he rides into the Haunted Forest with Ghost and the Wildlings to begin a new life.

Kinda feels like a attempt to redeem Jon and his story in GOT and i'm all for it but yea, we'll see.

Jon became very one note during the last season(s). He had his arc and I have little interest in a sequel to that to be honest. And the series made it seems there was little behind the wall anymore but the night king, his army and a bunch of wildlings.

Arya travelling to unknown lands could be way more interesting. Because there the writers can make up fresh stuff without it seeming at odds with the main series. The less it has to do with the main series, the better.

[gmillerdrake]

Jon became very one note during the last season(s). He had his arc and I have little interest in a sequel to that to be honest. And the series made it seems there was little behind the wall anymore but the night king, his army and a bunch of wildlings.

Not only that but.....the story spent the entire time building up to Jon vs The Night King....even to the point of him returning from being dead.....and then in some effort to be clever or whatever....they decide to have Arya be the one who kills TNK? There would have been nothing wrong with Jon vs TNK in the end and having him defeat him....that's kind of how the whole thing was set up and 'should' have went down.

Arya travelling to unknown lands could be way more interesting. Because there the writers can make up fresh stuff without it seeming at odds with the main series. The less it has to do with the main series, the better.

Agreed. Way more story flexibility with an Arya series.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

It seems like the whole thing is in very early stages so lots of speculation on returning characters so I guess there could be a chance Arya will return.

To be honest though for me I would love to have a proper meaningful ending for Jon. Yea they screwed his arc up in GOT but still, I can 100% say he was my favourite character in GOT and he deserves to be treated better. Atleast for me he's more interesting than Arya.

[cramx3]

Id rather follow Jon than Arya personally.  But those two were close, it's possible they would meet up again.  But if I'm being honest, I think if I had to choose a follow up story from GOT it may be to see how Bran rules Westeros. 

[gmillerdrake]

I'd like to see what ever became of Drogon....how large and powerful he became??

[faizoff]

GRR Martin wrote a blog post about the shows in development and all things GOT TV related. It's an interesting long blog post if anyone wishes to read.


He essentially summarizes that there are a total of four shows being worked on. Three of them already got leaked a while back, but for some reason the Jon Snow one never got mentioned even though all of them have been developed around the same time.


Some quotes..

There’s not much more I can tell you, not until HBO gives me a green light.

It seems as though Emilia Clarke has already mentioned that SNOW was Kit’s idea in a recent interview.   So that part is out.  Yes, it was Kit Harrington who brought the idea to us.   I cannot tell you the names of the writers/ showrunners, since that has not been cleared for release yet… but Kit brought them in too, his own team, and they are terrific.

All four of these successor shows are still in the script stage.   Outlines and treatments have been written and approved, scripts have been written, notes have been given, second and third drafts have been written.   So far, that’s all.   This is the way television works.   Please note: nothing has been green lit yet, and there is no guarantee when or if it will be… on any of these shows.  The likelihood of all four series getting on the air… well, I’d love it, but that’s not the way it works, usually.

And this gem to end with lol

Yes, WINDS OF WINTER.   No, have not forgotten.   I was back with Tyrion this past week.

[cramx3]

Is it wrong to just get pissed every time GRRM mentions he's working on TWOW?

[MirrorMask]

Is it wrong to just get pissed every time GRRM mentions he's working on TWOW?

At this point, no.

He has a right to work at his own pace following his own muse, without fans pestering him about it, especially the most arrogant ones who seem just concerned with the possibility he might pass away.

But at a certain point, he owes it not to the fans, but to himself - just finish what you started, come on. It's been embarassingly long by now, we're well past beyond the "oh come on he needs time, give him a break".

[ZirconBlue]

Is it wrong to just get pissed every time GRRM mentions he's working on TWOW?

If he didn't mention it, he'd be criticized for working on / commenting on other stuff when he should be working on TWOW.