Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Grappler]

Is it wrong to just get pissed every time GRRM mentions he's working on TWOW?

If he didn't mention it, he'd be criticized for working on / commenting on other stuff when he should be working on TWOW.

But that is actually the truth of the matter, and I think he's explained that a little in his blogs - that he has been focusing on writing television pilots, etc. 

I truly think that he just gave up on the Game of Thrones books when the show passed his writing up.  He gave them the major details and then went on to where his heart seems to be, which is writing for television. 

[ZirconBlue]

Is it wrong to just get pissed every time GRRM mentions he's working on TWOW?

If he didn't mention it, he'd be criticized for working on / commenting on other stuff when he should be working on TWOW.

But that is actually the truth of the matter, and I think he's explained that a little in his blogs - that he has been focusing on writing television pilots, etc. 

I truly think that he just gave up on the Game of Thrones books when the show passed his writing up.  He gave them the major details and then went on to where his heart seems to be, which is writing for television.

Except that he hasn't actually written that much for television.  He didn't even write the one-episode-per-season that we was doing for GOT since like Season 3.

[Grappler]

He's done work for Dark Winds on AMC. 

Checking Wikipedia, it seems like he does more editing and TV producing work than writing, but you get my gist...he seems to spend more time doing other work than writing the main GOT books.  Hence why I feel like his heart just isn't into it. 

[hefdaddy42]

Is it wrong to just get pissed every time GRRM mentions he's working on TWOW?

If he didn't mention it, he'd be criticized for working on / commenting on other stuff when he should be working on TWOW.

This is what I'm pissed about.  He complains about how hard it is for him to write, but he has built up an audience, and writing would go faster if he would stop everything else until he finishes at least the next book.

Keep in mind that since the last book in the series, he has had several other books published as well, including the novel Fire & Blood, which is purportedly the first in a 2-volume set.  FFS

[Grappler]

Keep in mind that since the last book in the series, he has had several other books published as well, including the novel Fire & Blood, which is purportedly the first in a 2-volume set.  FFS

The second book is coming out soon (The Rise of the Dragon).  Just another book he wrote while avoiding writing the Winds of Winter. 

[hefdaddy42]

Keep in mind that since the last book in the series, he has had several other books published as well, including the novel Fire & Blood, which is purportedly the first in a 2-volume set.  FFS

The second book is coming out soon (The Rise of the Dragon).  Just another book he wrote while avoiding writing the Winds of Winter.

Wonderful.  Not sure if I will give him my money for that one or not.

[MinistroRaven]

Just started watching the show with my wife.

Today we watched season 1: ep 1-3

When the show first aired we watched until the end of season 1 and 2 episodes of season 2.

We are planning to watch this one on weekdays and House of the Dragons on Sunday.

[MinistroRaven]

Started season 2 ep 01, very good stuff.

[Chino]

Favorite character(s) so far?

[MinistroRaven]

Favorite character(s) so far?

Jamie - the guy is a fucking bastard and I hate him already.
Varys - Can't believe how manipulative the guy is.
Tyrion - Wow, the smallest of all but very smart.
Robb - he seems to be wise, though, I would have killed JAMIE in a heartbeat
Sansa - I love the actress more than the character to be honest.

I hate how easy Khal Drogo died, he was so powerful, yet he died from the simplest wounds we have seen in the serie.

[lonestar]

Been doing a re-watch...at S4 right now. I forgot how amazing the chemistry between the Hound and Arya was...easily the highlight of the show.

[gmillerdrake]

Been doing a re-watch...at S4 right now. I forgot how amazing the chemistry between the Hound and Arya was...easily the highlight of the show.

The first through third or fourth seasons were some of the best television ever made. So well done......and yes.....those two were awesome together

[Stadler]

Been doing a re-watch...at S4 right now. I forgot how amazing the chemistry between the Hound and Arya was...easily the highlight of the show.

Agreed; maybe not the HIGHLIGHT for me (Jaime's arc was pretty strong) but certainly up there.

[lonestar]

I can definitely do without reliving Sam scraping off Jorah's greyscale ever again.

[gmillerdrake]

Haven't done a full blown rewatch of the series yet.....but have been jamming through a bunch of earlier episodes and parts of episodes.......and, while I wasn't one that was utterly disappointed in how the final season went......(I think with both actors and those who produced the show wanting to be done with it the story was going to suffer anyway) I will say and maintain that them deciding to have Arya be the one to kill the Night King was a horrible....horrible choice. Horrible storytelling and it flew in the face of everything that had been set in motion and had been set in place with the story that was being told.

I don't need to be reminded that she was a trained assassin. That means nothing when you look back at the story that was being told.....it was always supposed to be Jon who killed him and SHOULD have been. Having it be Arya wasn't a 'cool' surprise or shocking twist.....it was a travesty that nearly ruined the entire series.

[MirrorMask]

Also, the actual way it happened... her jumping out of nowhere with nothing to leap from... and finding out only later that it was supposed to be a pile of corpses that wasn't even shown on video anyway.... GAAAAH!

The way I like to tell it, they promised us World War II for eight years, and then Hitler got shanked by a little girl the moment he invaded Poland.

[gmillerdrake]

Also, the actual way it happened... her jumping out of nowhere with nothing to leap from... and finding out only later that it was supposed to be a pile of corpses that wasn't even shown on video anyway.... GAAAAH!

The way I like to tell it, they promised us World War II for eight years, and then Hitler got shanked by a little girl the moment he invaded Poland.

Yeah.....it was silly......plain and simple. A pretty good example of what happens when people who don't really know how to write a story can screw up a good thing after they are given the keys to the kingdom so to speak.

I do think a big issue was the fact that essentially everyone involved in that show was pretty much over it....was done. Where Dany ended up as a character made a lot of sense.....but would have been so much more believable and easy to tolerate had it happened over another season or so. It was too much character development too quick....with no real substance. We all 'know' that's where she was headed but the examples and reasons that we saw weren't enough for me to believe she had arrived there yet. It was a Fast Forward version of her character (and the show)

[lonestar]

And I still fully disagree with that, while S8 was shit and rushed, it was absolutely fitting that Arya killed the Night King.

We can argue this till days end, and will remain on opposite sides.

[gmillerdrake]

And I still fully disagree with that, while S8 was shit and rushed, it was absolutely fitting that Arya killed the Night King.

We can argue this till days end, and will remain on opposite sides.

I think back in the day we did try to argue it till days end   

[lonestar]

And I still fully disagree with that, while S8 was shit and rushed, it was absolutely fitting that Arya killed the Night King.

We can argue this till days end, and will remain on opposite sides.

I think back in the day we did try to argue it till days end 

Yup, the horse is already dead and rotting in the ground.

[Grappler]

And I still fully disagree with that, while S8 was shit and rushed, it was absolutely fitting that Arya killed the Night King.

I agree with this - the character spent a lot of time (seasons) training and building up her story as a skilled assassin. 

[lonestar]

And I still fully disagree with that, while S8 was shit and rushed, it was absolutely fitting that Arya killed the Night King.

I agree with this - the character spent a lot of time (seasons) training and building up her story as a skilled assassin.

I'd say even more a killing machine...assassin is part of that, but she was trained on every aspect of unaliving people.

[MirrorMask]

And I still fully disagree with that, while S8 was shit and rushed, it was absolutely fitting that Arya killed the Night King.

I agree with this - the character spent a lot of time (seasons) training and building up her story as a skilled assassin.

The single specific fact that Arya is a skilled assassin and could have killed the Night King is the least of the problems here. It's the actual execution and the complete disregard of the ovearching storyline of Jon (and the elemental menace of the White Walker themselves) that got people scratching head. Tyrion couldn't have realistically kill the Night King. Arya could. So what? a bunch of characters in the show were good warriors. Tormund could have killed him as well. Maybe even Brienne.

[KevShmev]

To me, the biggest tragedy of the way the final season played out is still that neither Arya nor Sansa ever came face to face with Cersei again.   I have always been in the "the last season wasn't that great, but it wasn't as awful as many said it was" camp, but that bugged me.

[gmillerdrake]

The single specific fact that Arya is a skilled assassin and could have killed the Night King is the least of the problems here. It's the actual execution and the complete disregard of the ovearching storyline of Jon (and the elemental menace of the White Walker themselves) that got people scratching head. Tyrion couldn't have realistically kill the Night King. Arya could. So what? a bunch of characters in the show were good warriors. Tormund could have killed him as well. Maybe even Brienne.

Bingo....bango....bongo.....nailed it. The entire story was 'set up' for Jon to have killed him. It wouldn't have been 'the easy way' or 'cheesy' if he would have been the one to do it....it'd have fulfilled everything we were shown and learned along the way about him and his lineage and justified his resurrection AND been the payoff of the entire effort that had been put in to his and the 'White Walker' parallel storyline. Just because Arya was a trained assassin doesn't mean that forgives what a horrible choice it was to just suddenly shoehorn her into a part of the story that she had no business being in.

   

[Grappler]

The single specific fact that Arya is a skilled assassin and could have killed the Night King is the least of the problems here. It's the actual execution and the complete disregard of the ovearching storyline of Jon (and the elemental menace of the White Walker themselves) that got people scratching head. Tyrion couldn't have realistically kill the Night King. Arya could. So what? a bunch of characters in the show were good warriors. Tormund could have killed him as well. Maybe even Brienne.

Bingo....bango....bongo.....nailed it. The entire story was 'set up' for Jon to have killed him. It wouldn't have been 'the easy way' or 'cheesy' if he would have been the one to do it....it'd have fulfilled everything we were shown and learned along the way about him and his lineage and justified his resurrection AND been the payoff of the entire effort that had been put in to his and the 'White Walker' parallel storyline. Just because Arya was a trained assassin doesn't mean that forgives what a horrible choice it was to just suddenly shoehorn her into a part of the story that she had no business being in.

I look at things differently.  To me, Jon was the "uniter."  He brought everyone together, through the respect that he had earned from each of the characters.  That was HIS job.  And yes, the set-up was Jon vs. the Night King.  But I've never been offended by the Arya switcheroo, because of who she became.  She took that burden off of his shoulders, partially because his character wasn't going to get there in time and because it was a payoff for her character. 

I did re-watch the show about a year or two ago and fell in love with those early seasons all over again.  And I did pick up on some stuff with Dany that set up the end of the series.

[KevShmev]

Jon was a bad fighter.  He didn't deserve the Night Kill kill.

Remember the Battle of the Bastards?  Jon dies right then and there if Ramsey had aimed his arrow at him instead of Wun Wun, and Jon would have died while standing there stupidly having taken his eyes off the enemy.

[gmillerdrake]

I look at things differently.  To me, Jon was the "uniter."  He brought everyone together, through the respect that he had earned from each of the characters.  That was HIS job.  And yes, the set-up was Jon vs. the Night King.  But I've never been offended by the Arya switcheroo, because of who she became.  She took that burden off of his shoulders, partially because his character wasn't going to get there in time and because it was a payoff for her character. 

Arya had her payoff with the revenge killing of all the Frey's. Her training allowed her to afflict that upon House Frey. No surviving men....bloodline over. If they were wanting her to have more then she should have been the one to kill Cersi face to face rather than that having a collapsing tower kill her. While it was 'poetic' having her world crash in on her and all....that too was lame and more or less a 'happy' ending for a despicable character by having Jamie miraculously make it back in time to be with her.

Anyway....as RJ said.....this can be debated until the sun stops working. I just personally thought it was lazy ass, 'simple' writing that destroyed everything the earlier seasons had built up.

[gmillerdrake]

Jon was a bad fighter. 

He killed several Night King Lieutenants......thousands of Wights....hundreds of men.....he wasn't a bad fighter. He was a poor strategist but he could fight with the best of them. 

[Adami]

Jon was a bad fighter. 

He killed several Night King Lieutenants......thousands of Wights....hundreds of men.....he wasn't a bad fighter. He was a poor strategist but he could fight with the best of them.

Plus I have it on good authority that he knew nothing.

[Grappler]

Jon was a bad fighter. 

He killed several Night King Lieutenants......thousands of Wights....hundreds of men.....he wasn't a bad fighter. He was a poor strategist but he could fight with the best of them.

Definitely agree with this, I think Jon was a great fighter, but he made an even better leader.  Despite the criticism of the "beyond the wall" episode, I loved seeing a group of fighters like Jon, the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, etc. all get together and interact together for the first time.

[KevShmev]

Jon was a bad fighter. 

He killed several Night King Lieutenants......thousands of Wights....hundreds of men.....he wasn't a bad fighter. He was a poor strategist but he could fight with the best of them.

Plus I have it on hold authority that he knew nothing.

Not to mention that his brooding works a lot better when he doesn't get what he wants.

And my earlier post was partly in jest (although I was fine with Arya killed the NK).

[MirrorMask]

For the record, I don't think what GRRM meant for Jon was as straightforward as him killing the big bad. But I'm quite sure his resurrection, which is all but spoiled since he still haven't finished the book, will be strictly tied to the overarching theme of the white walkers and he's gonna be instrumental in resolving that conflict. He's not gonna be a sidekick to the whole ordeal, once the whole deal with the White Walkers will be over, it's gonna be clear why the Lord of Light wanted specifically Jon alive.

Not that we're gonna get the final book anyway, I still believe that eventually The Winds of Winter IS gonna be released, but A Dream of Spring? no way.

[hefdaddy42]

Normally going with the OBVIOUS choice is seen as lazy writing.

[gmillerdrake]

Normally going with the OBVIOUS choice is seen as lazy writing.

maybe.....on a more straight forward story sure. But there was 7 seasons of foundation set in place for Jon to confront and kill TNK.....at minimum be in the same room as TNK when he was killed. I look at it as there was a chance to stick the landing for the show but the ending didn't stick at all.....huge step back and almost fell over.