Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Adami]

I was more into The Purple Purpling if that makes sense.

edit: come on, editing that kind of shit isn't fair.

 

[Evermind]

I was more into The Purple Purpling if that makes sense.

edit: come on, editing that kind of shit isn't fair.

 

[Adami]

Child, when you play the game of posts, you win or you die.

[The Walrus]

 

This has at least made me want to dive back into creative writing which I haven't done for well over a decade. I've always wanted to write fantasy novels even when I was a kid but it's such a daunting task to research so much that you don't know about in order to create a convincing world. It's pretty amazing everyone involved has managed to bring Westeros to life, quality of the last 2 seasons be damned. Only a few more days to go, folks...

... anybody want to bet how many plotlines go unresolved by the end? 

[gmillerdrake]

Still curious as to what happened with Meera. She took care of Bran and was just like ‘peace’ when he turned all weird Raven man.

Dario. Guess he’s shagging Mereen tail and ruling away?

Will be see Bronn again?

[MirrorMask]

This has at least made me want to dive back into creative writing which I haven't done for well over a decade. I've always wanted to write fantasy novels even when I was a kid but it's such a daunting task to research so much that you don't know about in order to create a convincing world. It's pretty amazing everyone involved has managed to bring Westeros to life, quality of the last 2 seasons be damned. Only a few more days to go, folks...

... anybody want to bet how many plotlines go unresolved by the end? 

My early attempts at writing not exactly novels included the plots for imaginary movies, which were kinda detailed like the summaries you can read on Wikipedia. I remember conjuring up "Alligator" which was a total ripoff of Jurassic Park, of course you had alligators instead of dinosaurs and in the end they made a mess eating all the bad guys 

I was also writing, as bullet points of an historical chronicle, the events of an imaginary World War. I remember the leader of Germany was named Kater, and they were the bad guys - 1000 points of originality for me  and I made some absurd choices that even I, years later, couldn't imagine why the hell I did them, such as:
- Denmark was invaded twice, on page three and on page five again (I guess the alternate nazis forgot they invaded Denmark...)
- Norway was an ally of Germany and was suddenly attacked for no damn reason at all
- One capital, either Berlin or Paris, was conquered by having scores and scores of car-bombs exploding, I assume that the kid in me found fascinating and brutal the idea of a car bomb so soldiers evidently snuck in the city by night all unnoticed, placed all the car bombs, and made them explode simultaneously 

[Adami]

I hope my last post about Dany wasn't lost. I didn't see it mentioned at least here.

[ariich]

So I think I realized my main issue with Dany doing what she did and the army following.

Not that it made zero sense or that it came out of nowhere, but that it served one specific function.

To shock the audience. It was a decision made for the impact it would have on us, as opposed to simply being the logical part of the story. It's the intentionallity, or at least what feels like the intentionallity.

With stuff like The Red Wedding, that felt like where the story was going and the shock factor was a very pleasant perk of that. But Dany and the armies killing everyone felt, first and foremost, like a way of impacting the audience.

Not sure if that makes sense.

And obviously we'll never really know for sure. But that's my interpretation and why I think I have such a distaste for it.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this at all. The Red Wedding was completely sudden and shocking and only made sense in retrospect when looking at the events leading up to it. Same here.

[The Walrus]

I agree with ariich on that as well..

[contest_sanity]

When the double-bass hits at the 2:47 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6austQHyJQU

 

[hefdaddy42]

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong.  Maybe Dany didn't "go mad" at all.

Remember, she didn't want to stop the wheel.  She wanted to BREAK the wheel.  The wheel of neverending rule by people who didn't have the interests of the people at heart.  The wheel of subjugation, of the domination of the powerless by the powerful.  That's why she upset the longstanding balance of rule by slavery in Essos.

Maybe her goal was to win the Iron Throne so that she could destroy the Iron Throne.  Maybe her whole goal was to do away with rule of the masses by the few.

Maybe her hope was to do it by being accepted with open arms by the populace, and then using that power to give them all their freedom by self-rule.  But when she saw that this would never be possible, she decided that she would have to use fire and blood to show the people that even a ruler who liberates them from a bad ruler, is still a bad ruler themselves.  To show them that there are no good rulers in reality.  To show them that being ruled is not the best way to live.

Once the bells began to ring, the look on her face was not her going mad, but realizing that the time to break the wheel had come, and she finally realized her terrible purpose.

Just maybe.

No thoughts on this?

I mean, I don't believe it's true.  Just another way to look at it.

[Adami]

So I think I realized my main issue with Dany doing what she did and the army following.

Not that it made zero sense or that it came out of nowhere, but that it served one specific function.

To shock the audience. It was a decision made for the impact it would have on us, as opposed to simply being the logical part of the story. It's the intentionallity, or at least what feels like the intentionallity.

With stuff like The Red Wedding, that felt like where the story was going and the shock factor was a very pleasant perk of that. But Dany and the armies killing everyone felt, first and foremost, like a way of impacting the audience.

Not sure if that makes sense.

And obviously we'll never really know for sure. But that's my interpretation and why I think I have such a distaste for it.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this at all. The Red Wedding was completely sudden and shocking and only made sense in retrospect when looking at the events leading up to it. Same here.

[MirrorMask]

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong.  Maybe Dany didn't "go mad" at all.

Remember, she didn't want to stop the wheel.  She wanted to BREAK the wheel.  The wheel of neverending rule by people who didn't have the interests of the people at heart.  The wheel of subjugation, of the domination of the powerless by the powerful.  That's why she upset the longstanding balance of rule by slavery in Essos.

Maybe her goal was to win the Iron Throne so that she could destroy the Iron Throne.  Maybe her whole goal was to do away with rule of the masses by the few.

Maybe her hope was to do it by being accepted with open arms by the populace, and then using that power to give them all their freedom by self-rule.  But when she saw that this would never be possible, she decided that she would have to use fire and blood to show the people that even a ruler who liberates them from a bad ruler, is still a bad ruler themselves.  To show them that there are no good rulers in reality.  To show them that being ruled is not the best way to live.

Once the bells began to ring, the look on her face was not her going mad, but realizing that the time to break the wheel had come, and she finally realized her terrible purpose.

Just maybe.

No thoughts on this?

I mean, I don't believe it's true.  Just another way to look at it.

She WANTED that throne like nothing else in life. No way she commits mass murder and genocide just to prove a point. We'll see how and if she'll explain herself next episode.

[cramx3]

I'd throw that up there with theories that could work but too details and nuanced at this point in the show when everything is getting simplified for the ending.  I'd be super surprised if Dany at the end, didn't actually want the thrown just because she's been so explicit about her rites to the thrown since the beginning.  Maybe since she doesn't have that rite she would back off, but doing the burning of innocents makes me think she isn't backing off her stance on wanting the throne.

[Adami]

I think in the first few seasons, we could make speculations for hidden agendas and stuff.

But the last few and especially this one? If I've noticed anything, it's that they just kind of tell us everything and there's nothing else.

Why did Jamie go back? Well, he said it was to be with Cersei. So it was to be with Cersei.

Why did Night King want to do stuff? To kill memories.

Why did Dany go nuts? Cause Targaryans go nuts.

They don't seem to be doing subtle stuff like hidden or secret agendas. When a character tells you something or demonstrates something, it's most likely that this is all there is to it.

[The Walrus]

I have a theory: Bronn ain't getting his castle. 

[Adami]

I have a theory: Bronn ain't getting his castle. 

I disagree. I think everyone kills each other off and Bronn is left standing alone.


With ALL the castles.

[cramx3]

I have a theory: Bronn ain't getting his castle. 

I watched a video on him recently, essentially a summary of how his debts have not been paid for many seasons of work now and it really helped explain his turn this season which I kind of felt wierd about initially, like he's been so buddy buddy with Tyrion and Jaime, would he really kill them?  After watching that video, I can see why his frustrations are at all high levels.  Would be funny though if he is the one who makes out with a happy ending and not Jaime (we know) and TYrion (who I fear might be killed next episode).

[The Walrus]

 

I'm so concerned about Tyrion. I think Dany will want him executed because freeing Jaime was his final mistake. But I wonder if Jon will try to save him, or kill Dany before Tyrion can be executed. But if Jon does end up killing Dany, will Grey Worm kill him on the spot? What will happen to him? Will he publicly announce his real name? Fudge. I am sad I won't be able to speculate after Sunday.

[Adami]

I'm so concerned about Tyrion. I think Dany will want him executed because freeing Jaime was his final mistake. But I wonder if Jon will try to save him, or kill Dany before Tyrion can be executed. But if Jon does end up killing Dany, will Grey Worm kill him on the spot? What will happen to him? Will he publicly announce his real name? Fudge. I am sad I won't be able to speculate after Sunday.

Yea, I am eager to see how they handle Dany since she still has the unsullied, the dothraki and ....I dunno.....A GOD DAMN DRAGON totally loyal to her. None of those people (save for possibly Drogon) will side with Jon if he has to kill Dany. They don't care about murdering everyone.

Also, soon enough you'll have a prequel about the Children of the Forest to speculate about.

[King Postwhore]

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong.  Maybe Dany didn't "go mad" at all.

Remember, she didn't want to stop the wheel.  She wanted to BREAK the wheel.  The wheel of neverending rule by people who didn't have the interests of the people at heart.  The wheel of subjugation, of the domination of the powerless by the powerful.  That's why she upset the longstanding balance of rule by slavery in Essos.

Maybe her goal was to win the Iron Throne so that she could destroy the Iron Throne.  Maybe her whole goal was to do away with rule of the masses by the few.

Maybe her hope was to do it by being accepted with open arms by the populace, and then using that power to give them all their freedom by self-rule.  But when she saw that this would never be possible, she decided that she would have to use fire and blood to show the people that even a ruler who liberates them from a bad ruler, is still a bad ruler themselves.  To show them that there are no good rulers in reality.  To show them that being ruled is not the best way to live.

Once the bells began to ring, the look on her face was not her going mad, but realizing that the time to break the wheel had come, and she finally realized her terrible purpose.

Just maybe.

No thoughts on this?

I mean, I don't believe it's true.  Just another way to look at it.

Hef, you are into something.


Daenerys: When my dragons are grown we will take back what was stolen from me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.

Daenerys: I will take what is mine through fire and blood.

She said this and now that it happened we are all hurt. 

[MirrorMask]

If Tyrion dies, I'll riot in the streets. Or whatever's left of King's Landing.

For all the story trainwrecks, there are still many questions up in the air and not predictable at all.

Will Dany live or not? if she dies, who kills her? Jon? Arya, with the authors gloating in the behind the scenes "Arya always said she was gonna kill the queen, but we surprised you with which one"? if she lives, does she go back to Mereen and stay there?

What happens with Drogon, especially if Dany dies? flies off nowhere to be seen again? submits to Jon? if so, what does Jon do with him?

Who gets the Iron Throne? is it even intact after all the carnage? let's say Jon accepts the coronation, and as first act he abdicates... in favor of whom? Bran? Sansa? with all the carnage there has been, does it even matter a line of succession?

Will the Seven Kingdoms split up?

Will Sansa be hinted at what she'll do with her life and who she'll marry?

Will Sandor's talk with Arya - the only father he had after Ned Stark's execution - be enough to send her back to Gendry?

What will be the last scene?

[Adami]

Will Sandor's talk with Arya - the only father he had after Ned Stark's execution - be enough to send her back to Gendry?

I have issues with this question. If she's not a ninja assassin, she has to go and be with Gendry? She could just go live her own life. I don't like the idea that if the girl isn't a crazy killer, she better just go get married.


And the answer to all of your other questions is Bronn Podrick.

[cramx3]

Yea, Tyrion essentially signed his death sentance by freeing Jaime and then Dany went Mad King so I figure he is up for a burning next episode and that to me is what I also think might be the tipping point for Jon who respects Tyrion a lot and Sansa as well.  I just wonder if its the burning itself that gets them to turn or the idea of the burn and they stop it.  I'm very worried for Tyrion next episode. Or he could get torched by the dragons just to see that he is also unburnt and a secret targ too.  Then maybe we see his genitals 

[ariich]

Will Sandor's talk with Arya - the only father he had after Ned Stark's execution - be enough to send her back to Gendry?

I have issues with this question. If she's not a ninja assassin, she has to go and be with Gendry? She could just go live her own life. I don't like the idea that if the girl isn't a crazy killer, she better just go get married.

Point of clarification: Arya was never crazy.

[Adami]

Will Sandor's talk with Arya - the only father he had after Ned Stark's execution - be enough to send her back to Gendry?

I have issues with this question. If she's not a ninja assassin, she has to go and be with Gendry? She could just go live her own life. I don't like the idea that if the girl isn't a crazy killer, she better just go get married.

Point of clarification: Arya was never crazy.

Oh I was just using it as an adjective for skill. We do that in America sometimes. Like "woah, you're a crazy good athlete!" or something. I didn't mean mentally ill.

[The Walrus]

Last scene better be Jon petting that damn dog up in the troo norf.

[Adami]

Last scene better be Jon petting that damn dog up in the troo norf.

Oh him not petting Ghost was clearly the biggest blunder of the season.

Starbucks cup? Fine
Arya killing night king from nowhere? Fine.
Dany going nuts? Fine.
Poor pacing? Fine.
Jon not petting Ghost goodbye? GOD DAMMIT GAME OF THRONES YOU RUINED IT!

[cramx3]

Last scene better be Jon petting that damn dog up in the troo norf.

too costly for CGI 

I'm sure it'll end with Sam waking up and doing the finishing touches on the book A Story of Ice and Fire.

[KevShmev]

How is Jon going to kill Dany now? I don't see how he can get close to her to do it, since I can't see her allowing him to be alone with her again. And the Dothraki and Unsullied are going to protect her like never before.  The best chance I see is Arya killing Grey Worm and then taking his face to where he can get close to Dany and then taking her out.  Which then could lead to another war, as the Dothraki and Unsullied will go on a killing spree if anyone takes out their queen, and is there really time with one episode left for another war?

[Podaar]

Why does anyone else have to die?

[The Walrus]

How is Jon going to kill Dany now? I don't see how he can get close to her to do it, since I can't see her allowing him to be alone with her again. And the Dothraki and Unsullied are going to protect her like never before.  The best chance I see is Arya killing Grey Worm and then taking his face to where he can get close to Dany and then taking her out.  Which then could lead to another war, as the Dothraki and Unsullied will go on a killing spree if anyone takes out their queen, and is there really time with one episode left for another war?

Could very well be that the show ends with the cycle of endless war and conflict repeating itself. What do we say to the god of happy endings? Not today...

[Adami]

How about this....all out war between the north and Dany and her people. We'll just forget about Drogon for a bit, which the writers seem to like.

Jon sees Dany is realizing that she can't be the mad queen. He sees hope in her eyes for the first time.

Then BAM!

Arrow into Dany's heart.

Jon looks to see who shot it, and there's Olly, giving him a nod.

Credits.

[Volante99]

What I can’t forgive is, once again, a main character just sort of goes out with a whimper. In this case I mean Cersei, both literally and figuratively. What a piss poor ending to a great character. Cersei was given ZERO thought by the writers this season. Shame.

The Night King and Littlefinger were given similar treatment. Great, interesting characters, ZERO payoff.

Um, what?

Cersei went out defeated and crying, before the building collapsed and killed her.  That is a great ending to her character.  Instead of a quick death in a moment where she thought she was still in control, it was very satisfying to see her spirit completely broken before her life ended.

The Night King was an interesting character?  He was a one-trick pony with zero emotion or range. 

Littlefinger's payoff was amazing, with the Stark ladies tricking him and eventually executing him.  That was great stuff.

Agree to disagree.

Think about it. Cersei, your strongest, most cunning, ruthless character just goes down passively crying. The same character who blew up the entire Sept to avoid a trial. She has done NOTHING this entire season except sleep with Euron. And then she just quietly moves out of the way for Cleganebowl. Dumb.

The Night King had zero payoff. That’s not even debatable at this point. Lame, pointless ending to an arc the show spent the entire show hyping the hell out of.

I mean, you can defend this Season all you want but it’s going down as THE biggest letdowns in TV history.

I don't post in this thread much, because my depth of knowledge of this show isn't on the same level as a lot of folks.  However, I completely agree with Kev.

Cersei's death demonstrated that she had (and never had) any real power.  Her "power" existed only in her ability to manipulate people to do what she wanted.  However, when the shit was hitting the fan and her followers were getting roasted and panicking, her power disappeared.  She skulked off and died in the arms of the only man she ever really loved.

The Night King was barely a character.  He was nothing more than a focal point for the White Walkers as a group.

And Littlefinger's death was one of the best in the whole series.

I think GOT -- more than Star Wars even -- has fallen victim to "fan theory syndrome."  So many fans come up with theories about what will happen or should happen and absolutely convince themselves and others that those theories are "correct."  Then, when those theories don't actually play out, they decide that the writers have failed.

There were about a million other ways to demonstrate Cersei’s lack of real power rather than just having her sulk away. Giving her some dialogue the past five episodes would have been an EXCELLENT start.

I disagree that the Night King/White Walkers weren’t interesting or compelling. They were the entire imperative of the show. THEY were why it mattered who had the Throne because humanity was at stake. Now without them they had to put that weight on Dany as the big baddie (which I don’t mind) but it was obviously abrupt and fans are definitely split on it.

I realize I’m in the minority about Littlefinger, but it was a quick end, clearly just to get some fan service and the writers had no idea where else to go with the character, but most people HATED Littlefinger so it was really more about the destination (his demise), people care less about the journey. So I’ll give that one a pass. It was definitely indicative of the current dumbing down of the show, however.

GoT fell victim, just like the current Star Wars trilogy, to a great story without an end game, writers using subversion, because they had no f-ing idea how to close this monster they created.

[The Walrus]

So just giving her some dialogue would've made her death better? I dunno man, I don't get it. Cersei has only ever exerted power through other people, never on her own. What was she supposed to do? She could've gone out angry and bitter like always, but in her final moments she just wants to protect her baby. I think you're forgetting that is a massive part of her character. She's crying not only because she doesn't want to die like that, but because it's exactly as she said: "I want my baby to live." And knowing that her unborn baby is going to die in such a horrific way is really unsettling...