Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[ariich]

- There is a difference between foreshadowing and telecasting something. Her going mad the way she did was telecasted this episode.
- They were NOT building to her murdering the masses outside of earlier in the same episode. They were building to her being a ruthless conqueror who wanted the throne above all. They only included the "I will rule by fear" in this episode. So no, it has not be foreshadowed for seasons that she would ruthlessly murder women, children and innocents. Her murdering masters, and slavers, and queens, and kings, and her enemies is NOT the same as murdering civilians. Sorry. Her deciding that she will rule by fear by murdering everyone was a very very very recent development, not something long established.

The "telecasting" for me came also from the voiceovers at the beginning of the episode, with quotes from everyone about the Targaryen being nuts, even picking up old Maester Aemon's quote about "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing". It's like they made Cersei saying stuff like "I hate children, I want the Mountain to stomp them all" and then add in the "previously on" segment the quote from Tyrion "you love your children, that's your redeeming quality" to sell better her "I don't want my child to die" at the end. No need for that however 'cause her character traits were well estabilished.

This might be nitpicky but  the "previously on" type thing at the start isn't part of the show itself. It's not part of the episode stream in the UK, certainly. So I've literally never seen a single one of them for GOT. I get what they're for in general and for some shows they work quite well, but it sounds like HBO hasn't been doing a very good job with them.

[KevShmev]

Cersei - while i understand people who were happy with her death, i feel slightly mixed on it. First off i agree that Cersei this season has been completely wasted. She used to have great scenes being ruthless and I was hoping all the way until the end that she would be making plans and having some alternative plan B ready. She has been one of the highlights of the show in terms of acting and she wasn't given much to do this season. I liked the angle of showing her as weak and powerless and basically just standing in her castle seeing the city destroyed without any power to stop it, i like her breaking down and realizing she had lost, but part of me wishes that the actual death felt more satisfying. We know she's dead but nobody else does. They're left to assume she died sometime during the battle which feels a bit underwhelming as a story conclusion for the many characters seeking to kill her. I'm not really crazy about her death either way though, I can see the writers trying to do something unexpected (rather than Arya chopping her head off) and I'll always give some credit for trying an alternative route that might be risky. This didn't entirely work for me, but I appreciated some aspects of it.

That's actually a good point, although given that the clip for next week showed a brief clip of him walking around and looking at the carnage, I suspect we will see Tyrion eventually make his way to see the collapsed Red Keep and see the dinghy still there, which will tell him that neither his sister nor his brother made it out alive.

[cramx3]

I felt unsatisfied with Cersei's death too, albeit for different reasons and mostly just because it felt like she got out of it sort of easy.  Sure we got to see her kind of go crazy with her sayings she's been using for years about the red keep never falling (and it literally fell, on her) which was nice, but I guess it's just a me thing, but I wanted to see someone actually go after her directly.  Dany never did surprisingly and I understand Jaime not, but I definitely wanted him to as well.  Or even Arya.  She almost got a happy ending being in the arms of Jaime which had a lot of symbolism but I felt kind of bummed by it. 

[Podaar]

Not directed at anyone specifically. Just sharing because relevant and funny.

[gmillerdrake]

'bout sums up where I'm at. Not directed at anyone in particular in this forum.....this is a general sentiment towards the internet in general.

[The Walrus]

 

[kaos2900]

Nice! Considering how so many people hate the show now you know everyone is going to be watching Sunday night.

Related, did anyone hear the rumor that the last two books are finished and GRRM made a deal with HBO to not publish them until the show is finished?

[MirrorMask]

Related, did anyone hear the rumor that the last two books are finished and GRRM made a deal with HBO to not publish them until the show is finished?

I don't believe it and I won't until it's official.

George Martin hasn't even finished working on a single book, and suddenly and out of nowhere he finished TWO books? I remember a quote from him about how there would be no hints, no cryptic messages, no campaign to lead up to the announcement of The Winds of Winter - the book would be done when it would be done and that was it. He doesn't strike me as someone who would generate hype with misdirection. Also, he genuinely has issues in getting the story right the way he wants it (hence the time passing between each book), so I can't see him, in the midst of other projects and working on the show (at least for the first seasons) and all the other stuff he's been involved with thanks to his sudden fame, finishing not one but TWO books and be secretive about it.

[ariich]

GRRM has already said that it's nonsense. He's not finished Winds of Winter and hasn't even started the final volume.

EDIT: This rumour came from the actor who played Ser Barristan Selmy saying that he'd understood that GRRM had finished the last two books. It's possible he'd just entirely got it wrong, or possibly it was confusion because the Winds of Winter is expected to be two books like some of the previous volumes have been.

[cramx3]

I think that would be the ultimate shock

[cramx3]

Also,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7025245/Game-Thrones-prequel-working-title-Bloodmoon-stars-start-shooting-new-series.html

looks like they are already hard at work on this

[Grappler]

Awesome.  I love how the shot of the flying dragon and Tyrion looking into the sky matches up with the lyrics of "Take a look to the sky just before you die"


Daenerys Storms King's Landing, but to Metallica's For Whom the Bell Tolls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCHlCiB98N4&feature=player_embedded

[ErHaO]

'bout sums up where I'm at. Not directed at anyone in particular in this forum.....this is a general sentiment towards the internet in general.

It is not like it is a decision people make or a switch you can flip. People have been near unanimously gushing over this show for 8 years, it is just that this season sucks for many of those people and they are voicing their opinion. I would rather be enjoying this too, but in the mean time I will enjoy all the memes this season has spawn like happy Tyrion in that picture.

[MirrorMask]

In an ironic, melodramatic and obviously not so serious way, my meme to go about how this season is going with only one episode EVER left is this one, going back to Season 1:

[gmillerdrake]

It is not like it is a decision people make or a switch you can flip. People have been near unanimously gushing over this show for 8 years, it is just that this season sucks for many of those people and they are voicing their opinion. I would rather be enjoying this too, but in the mean time I will enjoy all the memes this season has spawn like happy Tyrion in that picture.

Yeah....I'm not here to argue with folks and tell them how wrong they are about not liking the season. Everyone has their own view on the show and what their expectations are/were. I'm legitimately bummed for all of you guys/gals that have been THAT disappointed. As you could read throughout the thread....I've had some misgivings here and there with this season (and last) but nothing to the point of it ruining the show for me.

[Adami]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i0a7RDPkM8

Cool jam of the main theme.

[cramx3]

I've stated many of my complaints this season, but if anyone were to think that means I am not enjoying the show, they couldn't be more wrong (and I'm not saying people are, just kind of clarifying myself).  I have issues, sure, but it's still fantastic TV and my favorite show, by far.  My complaints only hurt because I love the show so much and know it's capable of being even better than it currently is, but I am going to be sooo sad Sunday when this is over. 

[Adami]

They actually made my graduation ceremony this Sunday. So I'll be in LA with no real way to watch GoT until Tuesday.

As disappointed as I am in the writing (just that) these last few seasons, it's going to be hard waiting til Tuesday to catch the finale.

[Chino]

I skipped my college graduation for far less than that 

[cramx3]

Wow that's rough, my coworker has a wedding Sunday  I feel bad for that couple as everyone is going to be more interested in GOT and getting home than the wedding, maybe even the couple too

[MirrorMask]

My complaints only hurt because I love the show so much and know it's capable of being even better than it currently is, but I am going to be sooo sad Sunday when this is over.

Also, discussing the writing and the story is more engaging than agreeing over and over about how the cinematography, the soundtrack and the performances are. The story might have took a dive - but the production values have never been better, have always been so since the beginning, and will probably go down in history as a benchmark until 20-30 years from now the development of technology will bring something even better to the table.

And for me, Light of the Seven will go down as the most beautiful piece of music of the show. The Rains of Castamere is the most famous, but on a musical standpoint, Light of the Seven wins the gold medal, especially in conjunction with the initial scene of The Winds of Winter. Also the Night King theme was fantastic.

Speaking of Light of the Seven, anyone caught it in the end of Cersei's scenes? it eventually merged into The Rains of Castamere. Awesome stuff.

[cramx3]

Oh yea, the production, music, acting, all top notch.  I almost don't even feel the need to give that praise since it's just so obvious but yea, it's the best.

[Adami]

I skipped my college graduation for far less than that 

Was it for getting a doctorate? I feel like this one takes precedence, especially when I can catch GoT at home.

[The Walrus]

I would really like some more insight, post-finale, as things are winding down, into D&D's decision to rush everything here. You know, something deeper than what we know. Why they ever thought it would be a good idea to rush the ending of the biggest show on Earth, and why they didn't hand it off to someone who would've liked to carry it on. (I watched all of those behind-the-scenes videos prior to season 8, where they interviewed each of the main cast members, and some definitely were glad to end it there, but man. What I would give to go back in time and convince them to do 12 seasons.)

We live in a world where The Walking Dead has 10 seasons and probably several more, and GoT got rushed in the last two. What the actual f&*$.

[cramx3]

I would really like some more insight, post-finale, as things are winding down, into D&D's decision to rush everything here. You know, something deeper than what we know. Why they ever thought it would be a good idea to rush the ending of the biggest show on Earth, and why they didn't hand it off to someone who would've liked to carry it on.

We live in a world where The Walking Dead has 10 seasons and probably several more, and GoT got rushed in the last two. What the actual f&*$.

Maybe that behind the scenes doc that airs on the 26th will give more insight https://mashable.com/video/hbo-game-of-thrones-the-last-watch-trailer/

[The Walrus]

^^ I really hope so. I'm psyched to watch that. I wish every episode this season was 2 hours...

[cramx3]

Yea, I am looking forward to it as well.  Usually seeing how they make it is cool, but I really want to see behind the scenes on the writing process, but not sure if they will show what I want to see.  I'd love to see them having a round table internal discussion and how they come to the conclusions of how to end the stories.  I'd love seeing the writers shoot the shit like how we do essentially and come to agreement on what they think makes sense and the best TV.  I think knowing that would also help ease the pain of when you feel things didn't go well, maybe seeing them work through it and explain it would make it more understandable and justifiable as well.

[KevShmev]

I would really like some more insight, post-finale, as things are winding down, into D&D's decision to rush everything here. You know, something deeper than what we know. Why they ever thought it would be a good idea to rush the ending of the biggest show on Earth, and why they didn't hand it off to someone who would've liked to carry it on. (I watched all of those behind-the-scenes videos prior to season 8, where they interviewed each of the main cast members, and some definitely were glad to end it there, but man. What I would give to go back in time and convince them to do 12 seasons.)

We live in a world where The Walking Dead has 10 seasons and probably several more, and GoT got rushed in the last two. What the actual f&*$.

Well, as I said the other day, 8 seasons is a long time to maintain that kind of high consistency.  Leaving GoT out of the equation (so as to not start that debate), I cannot think of a single drama in TV history that lasted 8+ seasons that was great from the start and stayed consistently so till the end.  The Sopranos basically did 7 (although they cheated by calling the last two 6a and 6b), but even that got less great later on (Season 4 was somewhat choppy, 6a was pretty average, and 6b was inconsistent).

[The Walrus]

I would really like some more insight, post-finale, as things are winding down, into D&D's decision to rush everything here. You know, something deeper than what we know. Why they ever thought it would be a good idea to rush the ending of the biggest show on Earth, and why they didn't hand it off to someone who would've liked to carry it on. (I watched all of those behind-the-scenes videos prior to season 8, where they interviewed each of the main cast members, and some definitely were glad to end it there, but man. What I would give to go back in time and convince them to do 12 seasons.)

We live in a world where The Walking Dead has 10 seasons and probably several more, and GoT got rushed in the last two. What the actual f&*$.

Well, as I said the other day, 8 seasons is a long time to maintain that kind of high consistency.  Leaving GoT out of the equation (so as to not start that debate), I cannot think of a single drama in TV history that lasted 8+ seasons that was great from the start and stayed consistently so till the end.  The Sopranos basically did 7 (although they cheated by calling the last two 6a and 6b), but even that got less great later on (Season 4 was somewhat choppy, 6a was pretty average, and 6b was inconsistent).

That's true, but I mean, if any series could have done it, I would have thought it would be Game of Thrones. Not the freaking Walking Dead. 

[Adami]

I would really like some more insight, post-finale, as things are winding down, into D&D's decision to rush everything here. You know, something deeper than what we know. Why they ever thought it would be a good idea to rush the ending of the biggest show on Earth, and why they didn't hand it off to someone who would've liked to carry it on. (I watched all of those behind-the-scenes videos prior to season 8, where they interviewed each of the main cast members, and some definitely were glad to end it there, but man. What I would give to go back in time and convince them to do 12 seasons.)

We live in a world where The Walking Dead has 10 seasons and probably several more, and GoT got rushed in the last two. What the actual f&*$.

Well, as I said the other day, 8 seasons is a long time to maintain that kind of high consistency.  Leaving GoT out of the equation (so as to not start that debate), I cannot think of a single drama in TV history that lasted 8+ seasons that was great from the start and stayed consistently so till the end.  The Sopranos basically did 7 (although they cheated by calling the last two 6a and 6b), but even that got less great later on (Season 4 was somewhat choppy, 6a was pretty average, and 6b was inconsistent).

I would argue that GoT has not stayed consistently good, but that even lesser seasons have had great moments that usually cause people to forget about the lesser stuff.

I would say GoT has, largely, declined in quality over the last few seasons. To a crazy extent that makes it unwatchable? Nah. But enough to rule it out as having 8 consistently amazing seasons. For me at least.

[RuRoRul]

I would really like some more insight, post-finale, as things are winding down, into D&D's decision to rush everything here. You know, something deeper than what we know. Why they ever thought it would be a good idea to rush the ending of the biggest show on Earth, and why they didn't hand it off to someone who would've liked to carry it on. (I watched all of those behind-the-scenes videos prior to season 8, where they interviewed each of the main cast members, and some definitely were glad to end it there, but man. What I would give to go back in time and convince them to do 12 seasons.)

We live in a world where The Walking Dead has 10 seasons and probably several more, and GoT got rushed in the last two. What the actual f&*$.

Well, as I said the other day, 8 seasons is a long time to maintain that kind of high consistency.  Leaving GoT out of the equation (so as to not start that debate), I cannot think of a single drama in TV history that lasted 8+ seasons that was great from the start and stayed consistently so till the end.  The Sopranos basically did 7 (although they cheated by calling the last two 6a and 6b), but even that got less great later on (Season 4 was somewhat choppy, 6a was pretty average, and 6b was inconsistent).

Yeah this was what I was thinking about recently as well, the top tier TV dramas normally end around or ideally before 8 seasons, outside of maybe comedies I can't think of any TV show I really think was anywhere near as strong by its eigth season as when it started out. Most either go downhill or start spinning their wheels by then (for example I actually gave up watching the Walking Dead after Season 8, I'll probably get back to it at some point but I definitely wouldn't consider it as an example of a show that remained at a quality close to its best as time went on and ended before it got stale). Regardless of source material or good writing or not, I think any show's tropes and tricks will end up wearing a bit thin after that long. One thing common to some of the great shows is ending it in a timely manner

But the story of ASOIAF has grown so large that it'd be a struggle to fit a full adaptation into even 10 TV seasons. So you've got a story that's probably best suited to having even more space to sprawl and sprawl being adapted to a medium that is best suited to running 6 or 7 seasons max (imo). Even if the writers had the full source material or had gone about adapting Books 4 and 5 and GRRM's outline more fully, I think the show would have risked succumbing to the problems of any long running drama if it tried to go 10+ seasons.

[pg1067]

What I can’t forgive is, once again, a main character just sort of goes out with a whimper. In this case I mean Cersei, both literally and figuratively. What a piss poor ending to a great character. Cersei was given ZERO thought by the writers this season. Shame.

The Night King and Littlefinger were given similar treatment. Great, interesting characters, ZERO payoff.

Um, what?

Cersei went out defeated and crying, before the building collapsed and killed her.  That is a great ending to her character.  Instead of a quick death in a moment where she thought she was still in control, it was very satisfying to see her spirit completely broken before her life ended.

The Night King was an interesting character?  He was a one-trick pony with zero emotion or range. 

Littlefinger's payoff was amazing, with the Stark ladies tricking him and eventually executing him.  That was great stuff.

Agree to disagree.

Think about it. Cersei, your strongest, most cunning, ruthless character just goes down passively crying. The same character who blew up the entire Sept to avoid a trial. She has done NOTHING this entire season except sleep with Euron. And then she just quietly moves out of the way for Cleganebowl. Dumb.

The Night King had zero payoff. That’s not even debatable at this point. Lame, pointless ending to an arc the show spent the entire show hyping the hell out of.

I mean, you can defend this Season all you want but it’s going down as THE biggest letdowns in TV history.

I don't post in this thread much, because my depth of knowledge of this show isn't on the same level as a lot of folks.  However, I completely agree with Kev.

Cersei's death demonstrated that she had (and never had) any real power.  Her "power" existed only in her ability to manipulate people to do what she wanted.  However, when the shit was hitting the fan and her followers were getting roasted and panicking, her power disappeared.  She skulked off and died in the arms of the only man she ever really loved.

The Night King was barely a character.  He was nothing more than a focal point for the White Walkers as a group.

And Littlefinger's death was one of the best in the whole series.

I think GOT -- more than Star Wars even -- has fallen victim to "fan theory syndrome."  So many fans come up with theories about what will happen or should happen and absolutely convince themselves and others that those theories are "correct."  Then, when those theories don't actually play out, they decide that the writers have failed.

[Adami]

So I think I realized my main issue with Dany doing what she did and the army following.

Not that it made zero sense or that it came out of nowhere, but that it served one specific function.

To shock the audience. It was a decision made for the impact it would have on us, as opposed to simply being the logical part of the story. It's the intentionallity, or at least what feels like the intentionallity.

With stuff like The Red Wedding, that felt like where the story was going and the shock factor was a very pleasant perk of that. But Dany and the armies killing everyone felt, first and foremost, like a way of impacting the audience.

Not sure if that makes sense.

And obviously we'll never really know for sure. But that's my interpretation and why I think I have such a distaste for it.

[Evermind]

I was more into The Purple Purpling if that makes sense.

edit: come on, editing that kind of shit isn't fair.

[MirrorMask]

I think GOT -- more than Star Wars even -- has fallen victim to "fan theory syndrome."  So many fans come up with theories about what will happen or should happen and absolutely convince themselves and others that those theories are "correct."  Then, when those theories don't actually play out, they decide that the writers have failed.

Well, depends on the actual outcome. I'd like to go and find the most appreciated theories of how Breaking Bad would end, and match them up to the actual finale, to see how they compare.

Speaking of Breaking Bad, it's not really the same at having a bullet point and having to match it up, but the authors painted themselves in a corner at the beginning of the final season. They showed in the cold open Walter getting a rifle, without having planned for it. In whatever interview they even admitted it was stupid. So they had to start from a bullet point, "Walter needs a rifle", and they had to create a storyline that would justify that.

I think the general consensus on that is "mission accomplished" in creating an organic story that leads to Walter having the need for a rifle. While the internet is exploding with comments about the road to the destination for the characters was a bit off, they can't be all entitled or spoiled fans...