Author Topic: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread  (Read 633524 times)

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Offline ariich

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7140 on: May 13, 2019, 03:54:51 PM »
It's not sudden and it's not only this season. She's been on the path to potential villainy for ages and especially last season.

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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7141 on: May 13, 2019, 03:55:21 PM »
me: I'm glad I don't have to succumb to internet rage and argue with people just because they liked something I didn't
also me: just told a leading young home country playwright she must be a bad writer if she thinks this was well written  :lol in my defense I don't really think she's good.

Think I might need to chill a bit. It just hit me hard that I know how this extremely personally important story will end but I will never get a journey there that makes sense to me. When I fill all the details in in my head and steelman every detail extra hard, yeah. I shouldn't have to do that though. Peace.

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Offline ariich

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7142 on: May 13, 2019, 04:00:26 PM »
Well, she's hardly a 'good' queen. She's crucified people, made mistakes learning how to be a ruler, and up and freaking left the city she became queen of to go conquer someone else's continent under perceived entitlement to a throne and land she's barely spent any time in as an adult. Good for the slaves she liberated, the Unsullied, etc.? Sure. For Westeros? Well that's a whole other story, you see how the North reacted to her... the people of Westeros know about the Targaryens.

What's that quote Martin has about writing? That the most interesting thing is the human heart in conflict with itself? Dany was never nor is she now a villain, but she did make one grievous mistake last night...
Bingo. Just because she kept saying she was or wanted to be a good queen, doesn't mean she ever was one.

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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7143 on: May 13, 2019, 05:08:32 PM »
I think this episode was pretty damn bad. Especially Jaime going this way pissed me off. Sure, in the end him succumbing to his love for Cersei could've been a beautifully tragic plot. Or him betraying Cersei while still loving her. It is not the direction the plot went in, but how they did it. It is just executed in the most piss poorly way I could've imagined. Since the whole Jaime arc was my favorite thing this season, one of the redeeming qualities outside of nice visuals and competent actors just got buried under a pile of rocks.

Also, I think it is just straight up silly to have those scorpions be manned by aimbots one episode and an episode later have them be completely innefective in broad daylight with a clear sky. At least have the siege at night or during weather with poor visibility or something. I gues Dany remembering her main enemies really made all that difference.


The internet is ripping this season a new one and for once I agree.

As I said before, I am entertained by the spectacle, but there are hundreds of mediocre blockbusters that offer nice action setpieces. Once the novelty of a tv series having similar production values wears off, all that remains is another mediocre blockbuster if the writing is of similar quality. Examples are films like The Great Wall, Robin Hood, those Snow White films, King Arthur, King Arthur: Legend of the Sword etc. I genuinely think this is not better than those films.




Offline The Walrus

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7144 on: May 13, 2019, 05:20:53 PM »
Man... the internet is really trying to suck all the joy out of this show this season. Piss poor... interesting, but a lot of people seem to agree.

Didn't see anyone complain during Battle of the Bastards with some of its contrived BS. Everyone lost it over Starbucks this season but nobody cares that Jon has a rubber sword as he gets on his horse or takes on a charging cavalry by himself or escapes being trampled or the Vale Gandalfing the battle and winning or
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7145 on: May 13, 2019, 05:40:31 PM »
Man... the internet is really trying to suck all the joy out of this show this season. Piss poor... interesting, but a lot of people seem to agree.

Didn't see anyone complain during Battle of the Bastards with some of its contrived BS. Everyone lost it over Starbucks this season but nobody cares that Jon has a rubber sword as he gets on his horse or takes on a charging cavalry by himself or escapes being trampled or the Vale Gandalfing the battle and winning or

Yeah. Not that criticism should be ignored or that the show can’t be criticized.....but at this point it feels like it’s just the ‘cool’ thing to do. That’s the downfall of the internet and social media at times.

Me personally.....I’ll continue to enjoy a show that is being provided by a bunch of people who’s careers and bodies of work speak for themselves.....and ignore Jimmy Bob on YouTube, Twitter or Facebook who just happens to have a camera or computer with the ability to post it. Way too many lower than Amateur status ‘writers’ or ‘critics’ being published with opinions that are clearly based on flaming the show for clicks since it’s the thing to do apparently.
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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7146 on: May 13, 2019, 05:52:35 PM »
I mean, if you enjoy it, that is great. No whining on the internet should be able to take that from you guys. I have enjoyed plenty of things that got shit on massively. And while (often) understanding the reasons behind that, my own enjoyment is ultimately what matters to me. Each flaw weighs different for different people. For a Game of Thrones example, I was fine with the often memed Dorne/Sand Snakes stuff.

That said, I just watched this episode with my group of friends and we all reacted like I did in my post above, so my dissapointment at this moment may let it sound harsher than I will probably be after letting it sink. I will admit it is a bit of a rant but when a show you followed religiously for many years shits the bed in your view, that feels bad.




At least I should be able assure you that I am not voicing my negative opinion because of "clicks" or to earn "internet credit". I just don't like this season.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 05:58:17 PM by ErHaO »

Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7147 on: May 13, 2019, 06:06:04 PM »
Holy shit.. I just started a rewatch of the new episode. Was Varys attempting to poison Dany?!

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7148 on: May 13, 2019, 06:11:00 PM »
Holy shit.. I just started a rewatch of the new episode. Was Varys attempting to poison Dany?!

Yes.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7149 on: May 13, 2019, 06:20:00 PM »
Holy shit.. I just started a rewatch of the new episode. Was Varys attempting to poison Dany?!

Yes.

Woah I did't get that

Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7150 on: May 13, 2019, 06:20:48 PM »
Yep.Taking active measures as well as sending out ravens saying Jon Snow is the rightful heir. Daenerys not eating turns out to be a pretty practical move for her!

Speaking of Varys, when he heard people coming to his chamber I presume he guessed they'd be coming to execute him. He took off his rings in preparation. Any ideas why? Just symbolic choice not to wear them when executed or is there any sign of a practical purpose?

Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7151 on: May 13, 2019, 06:25:01 PM »
Maybe just to leave a piece of himself behind? He probably assumed he was going to be torched and wanted something of him to survive.

Other than that, I haven't a clue.

Maybe one was poison? Joffrey was poisoned by a piece of jewelry.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7152 on: May 13, 2019, 06:25:32 PM »


Speaking of Varys, when he heard people coming to his chamber I presume he guessed they'd be coming to execute him. He took off his rings in preparation. Any ideas why? Just symbolic choice not to wear them when executed or is there any sign of a practical purpose?

Not sure, but always a graceful man, he accepted his fate like a man.

Yep.Taking active measures as well as sending out ravens saying Jon Snow is the rightful heir. Daenerys not eating turns out to be a pretty practical move for her!

That is why she went mad...she was hangry!

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7153 on: May 13, 2019, 06:33:53 PM »
I think the show has dropped significantly in quality in the last 2 seasons but that doesn't mean it's all bad. On a spectacle level there was a lot to enjoy in this episode I think, just the scale of it. On one hand it feels like a shame that a show that used to be great and unpredictable is getting (so far at least) a very predictable stupid hollywood ending, but with that said I was never as big of a fan as the people who are into the books so I don't have that deep connection.

Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7154 on: May 13, 2019, 06:37:13 PM »
Despite all the flaws, I don't know why people are calling it predictable. This forum has pretty much been wrong at every turn as far as main plot points go.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7155 on: May 13, 2019, 06:42:53 PM »
Yeah, it's easy to say it is predictable, but who could have guessed most of what has happened this season?

If it is so predictable, tell me what is going to happen next week (with specifics, not generalities), without having looked at the spoilers that are out there. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7156 on: May 13, 2019, 06:45:23 PM »
Cliche and predictable are not the same thing, and I think the internet is confusing that fact.

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7157 on: May 13, 2019, 06:54:16 PM »
I do agree the show isn't predictable, not even that cliche to be honest. Though I usually have a high tolerance for cliches and tropes.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7158 on: May 13, 2019, 07:20:22 PM »
Stupid Hollywood ending how?? I'm gonna have no hair at the rate I'm pulling it out over here. :)
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7159 on: May 13, 2019, 07:50:31 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5j0Ofob1Xs

I don't always agree with this guy, but he summed up a lot of my big complaints in a pretty good (and concise) way. So I'm just posting that.

I'm watching this right now, almost done. There's a lot of calling things "stupid" and "moronic" and almost no compliments on what was done well. It's just one shot after another, simplifying character's arcs and the reasons for why they act the way they are. This seems to be the 'cool' thing to do with the show now when it was never like this before this season. It's not a 'review' like it claims, it just criticizes and lambasts mosts everything done in the episode without offering a real way to have done it better..

Okay okay okay I'll take my leave for a while... just feel like one of the few people actually sticking up for this season because I LOVE this franchise, it really truly is not as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be
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Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7160 on: May 13, 2019, 09:05:32 PM »
I know it's sometimes in our nature to analyze the crap out of everything but  I really try not too with regards to this show and others (Star Wars, Matrix, etc...).  I thoroughly enjoyed this whole journey with GOT.  It will go down as one of the top, if not the top all time TV show for me.  Is it perfect?  Of course not.  Is the writing and storytelling great?  I think so.  Reading through all the posts from last night the biggest head scratcher for me is the critiques on the scorpions and tactics.  I re-watched it this morning and paid specific attention to this issue.  She was evasive and her tactics, coming out of the sun, then below the cliffs and popping up last second to work the whole line of scorpions, made perfect sense to me.  Also, when the dragon was taken out last week it was a case of a surprise attack.  That dragon was flying level and steady when hit, just cruising, no evasive tactics at all.  That's the ONLY reason Euron was able to score a hit. I would surmise Dany learned some tactics that day when she dove Drogon at Euron then evaded last second.  The only thing about the dragon attacks I kind of raised an eyebrow at was how ships and buildings would just explode on dragon fire contact.  Instead of merely catching on fire.  But hey!  What do I know about dragon fire dynamics  :lol

Regardless...  I love this frikken show!!!!!  It's gonna be sad to see it end. 

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7161 on: May 13, 2019, 09:13:55 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5j0Ofob1Xs

I don't always agree with this guy, but he summed up a lot of my big complaints in a pretty good (and concise) way. So I'm just posting that.

I'm watching this right now, almost done. There's a lot of calling things "stupid" and "moronic" and almost no compliments on what was done well. It's just one shot after another, simplifying character's arcs and the reasons for why they act the way they are. This seems to be the 'cool' thing to do with the show now when it was never like this before this season. It's not a 'review' like it claims, it just criticizes and lambasts mosts everything done in the episode without offering a real way to have done it better..

Okay okay okay I'll take my leave for a while... just feel like one of the few people actually sticking up for this season because I LOVE this franchise, it really truly is not as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be

Oh I didn't mean to present that as a full objective review or anything. He definitely just kind of ranted and focused solely on the negative. I was just struck by how similar his complaints were to mine. I tried to point out all the positive I liked as well, but that was just meant to illustrate my complaints, which I can post more about tomorrow, but I will say that Dany turning....the way she did....was NOT set up, or at least set up very well. Though, my bigger complaint, which hasn't been discussed much, is the army turning the way they did.

However, I understand your frustration with the internet. I would HIGHLY suggest being more discriminate about what you read/listen to.

If I LOVE a Marvel movie or something like that, do I watch a Red Letter Media review? Hell no. They're going to mock it and tear it apart.

If I am gushing over a silly movie, do I watch a Kevin Smith review? Hell yes. He will gush over it too.

If you want some more interesting (and lengthy) discussions, I put a few links to some (just for the last episode). They're not all gushy. Some are more critical than others, but they give everything a pretty fair shake. You might dig it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bibuxe-WxU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHrVtrYkZec
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 09:35:33 PM by Adami »
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7162 on: May 13, 2019, 09:18:23 PM »
I think JJ is spot on, on his opinion. If I'm going to state the positives of this episode, or even season, I'll only praise cinematography and direction, the spectacles are amazing! That's not what I came to buy though..
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7163 on: May 13, 2019, 09:21:38 PM »
Actually I do watch RLM reviews of things I like, because I truly like hearing opposing thoughts. I'm absolutely not someone who lolligags in a positive thoughts echo chamber. I just think this season is very much being unfairly maligned, in the big picture. I appreciate the links, hopefully I haven't seen them already because I scour youtube for analysis vids like an addict  :tup (Example, for the record: I think RLM's review of Avengers: Endgame is fantastic. It's what a good review is. Kevin Smith's review is him retelling every event of the story, showering it in praise, and crying. I freaking love Endgame, but I want to hear someone go deeper than that.)

Edit: yup, seen both. I think they're good. I'm also waiting for Talking Thrones and ASX. Cheers  :biggrin:
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 09:29:01 PM by Kattelox »
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7164 on: May 14, 2019, 02:22:33 AM »
My issue with Dany's story is not that she never showed hints of cruelty - it's just that the destruction of the city feels overkill. All her violent acts were aimed and never for the sake of seeing some people die. I accept her being annoyingly entitled to the Iron Throne, I accept her living up to the motto of her house, I accept her showing no mercy to Cersei and the Lannister army. But destroying a city she just conquered feels a bit over the top, and it was supposed to be justified by the voiceovers in the "before on" segment... what happened to "Show, don't tell"? it's like if they added in the "before on" the scene of Tyrion saying that Cersei loves her children, that was well estabilished, there was no need to remind us of it (unlike Dany's potential for madness, I guess).

To go back with my historical example: I'm fine with Dany wanting at all costs to drop the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'm less fine with her dropping the bomb also on Tokyo and all over rural Japan when the armistice had already been signed.

It was not predictable, for sure, but it was a bit underwhelming in their solutions: "What will the Golden Company do?" ... nothing. "What will Yara do?" nothing. "Dany has her only remaining dragon at risk, what will she do?" Well, use the dragon, d'uh (But I concede that her tactics were cool and logical).

Still, even if it all felt so abrupt regarding the shift in the odds of war, I think no one can disagree about what a visual spectacle the episode was. If at all, the "end of the world" vibe was absolutely there. King's Landing burning up in fire and ashes and everything being destroyed... we're really at the end of the story and of the war began after Robert's death, the tragic destruction was very well done.

Also - I didn't realize immediately that Varys was trying to poison Dany - but I'm quite confident that the letters he was writing were many, and that all the people of Westeros will soon know that Jon is the trueborn son of Rhaegar.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7165 on: May 14, 2019, 02:41:15 AM »
To go back with my historical example: I'm fine with Dany wanting at all costs to drop the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'm less fine with her dropping the bomb also on Tokyo and all over rural Japan when the armistice had already been signed.
I don't understand how you're using this analogy. Where has she previously nuked Hiroshima or Nagasaki? To take that as a parallel (and it's not a bad one), King's Landing is surely exactly the equivalent of those?

Given that the people won't ever love her and she desires the throne above all else (both things that have been established for a number of seasons) and therefore she has decided to rule through fear, it's brutally logical to burn down KL to terrify the test of Westeros into following her.

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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7166 on: May 14, 2019, 02:53:30 AM »
The "fear" part was achieved brilliantly by torching the ships and the walls and with a screeching Drogon towering above the people running for their lives. But if torching King's Landing was a message not to the people of the city (hard to have someone fear you if they're smoldering ash), but to the rest of Westeros, I agree with you that it makes sense, didn't see it that way.

My parallel with history was this...

History:
- USA has a weapon of mass destruction (atomic bombs)
- USA considers what to do to end the war (invasion of Japan maybe?)
- USA drops the bombs to force Japan to surrender, they do, and the war is over.

Game of Thrones:
- Dany has a weapon of mass destruction (the dragons)
- Dany considers what to do to end the war (avoid a bloodshed maybe?)
- Dany goes fo the nuclear option (using the dragon to target military objectives, like the fleet and the armored walls and the Red Keep where her enemy lives) and then...... carpet bombs the rest of King's Landing.

Feels overkill and useless just like for the USA would have been useless to continue to drop atomic bombs on Japan. But as I said - I didn't see it as a message to Westeros. If that's what it was, at least it makes some (terrible) sense.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7167 on: May 14, 2019, 03:18:32 AM »
For me this season just feels so rushed. My favorite episode was the second one because they were just sitting around drinking and talking and you got those "characters bonding" moments that feels like classic GoT to me. I get that they have to wrap up the show but it feels like they're trying to do too much in too little time. I'll admit I never really cared for the night king story even at the start, so wrapping that one up was incredibly underwhelming to me already, but the big battle at king's landing was definitely something i had a bit more excitement about and it ended up fairly underwhelming as well. On a spectacle level there were some great cinematic shots but I never felt any real tension in the battle. To return to the use of "predictability", I think it's safe to say that we all knew the good side would win the fight at king's landing because having a twist with Cersei killing Dany or Jon is simply the type of moment from the older seasons that doesn't happen anymore, and I'm fine with that. But I wish the battle felt more like a battle with real stakes and tension rather than Dany blowing up the fleet and the ballistas within 3 minutes and then the "battle" for the next 30 minutes was her flying over the city just wrecking shit and Cersei looking terrified with no plan B or anything. I mean it was only ~30 mins into the episode or something when the defense of the city laid their weapons down.

I made the comparison on another forum but for me the battle was kinda like if you watch the battle for Minas Tirith in Return of the King, but you start watching when Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli shows up with the army of the dead. It worked in that movie because it was preceded by a long battle beforehand and it was used as a last resort/save the day moment at the end, but watching it just on its own you dont feel any tension or stakes. I wish Cersei would have had a plan B that presented a real threat of taking the dragon down, OR (and this would have redeemed both this episode and the last one a bit) they should have gone into this episode with 2 dragons alive and one of them could have been killed during the siege. That would have made the battle feel a bit more tense I think.

Still, I might sound harsh on the show but I feel like GoT is a show where i spent the first 4-5 seasons feeling I was always behind the tv-show and I could never quite understand everything and now I feel i'm always a few steps ahead instead. It's not as bad as some people on the internet make it out to be, it just baffles me sometimes.

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7168 on: May 14, 2019, 03:54:22 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5j0Ofob1Xs

I don't always agree with this guy, but he summed up a lot of my big complaints in a pretty good (and concise) way. So I'm just posting that.

I'm watching this right now, almost done. There's a lot of calling things "stupid" and "moronic" and almost no compliments on what was done well. It's just one shot after another, simplifying character's arcs and the reasons for why they act the way they are. This seems to be the 'cool' thing to do with the show now when it was never like this before this season. It's not a 'review' like it claims, it just criticizes and lambasts mosts everything done in the episode without offering a real way to have done it better..

Okay okay okay I'll take my leave for a while... just feel like one of the few people actually sticking up for this season because I LOVE this franchise, it really truly is not as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be

I love this franchise as well, I really do, I just wish I could agree with you. I think that is the case for most of these people as well. Most of these heavily critical people have been gushing over this series for like 8 years now and I unfortunately have to agree with them in many regards.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7169 on: May 14, 2019, 04:41:51 AM »
One very minor detail: they couldn't have known back then, but I wish now they would have refrained from calling the Season 1 finale like the motto of Targaryen House. If an episode ever deserved the "Fire and Blood" title, it's this one  ;D

How's next one will be called? it just has to be A Dream of Spring, right?
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Offline ariich

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7170 on: May 14, 2019, 06:16:12 AM »
The "fear" part was achieved brilliantly by torching the ships and the walls and with a screeching Drogon towering above the people running for their lives. But if torching King's Landing was a message not to the people of the city (hard to have someone fear you if they're smoldering ash), but to the rest of Westeros, I agree with you that it makes sense, didn't see it that way.

My parallel with history was this...

History:
- USA has a weapon of mass destruction (atomic bombs)
- USA considers what to do to end the war (invasion of Japan maybe?)
- USA drops the bombs to force Japan to surrender, they do, and the war is over.

Game of Thrones:
- Dany has a weapon of mass destruction (the dragons)
- Dany considers what to do to end the war (avoid a bloodshed maybe?)
- Dany goes fo the nuclear option (using the dragon to target military objectives, like the fleet and the armored walls and the Red Keep where her enemy lives) and then...... carpet bombs the rest of King's Landing.

Feels overkill and useless just like for the USA would have been useless to continue to drop atomic bombs on Japan. But as I said - I didn't see it as a message to Westeros. If that's what it was, at least it makes some (terrible) sense.
In the spirit of discussion and debate, I think this is a fundamentally flawed use of the analogy primarily because you are equating the USA using its atom bombs to achieve what it wants (Japan surrenders, USA "wins" the war) with Dany getting what she wants when the Lannisters surrender. She didn't at all get what she wanted. She didn't care about the Lannister armies or Cersei or even ending the war, what she wants is to rule. Over the 2.5 episodes leading up to the bells ringing, she came to the realisation that defeating Cersei and "winning" the war wouldn't get her that because the people don't love her and won't accept her now that Jon has a better claim to the throne (whether he wants it or not). So Cersei surrendering isn't enough. To get what she wants she has to use her own atom bomb to destroy King's Landing and terrify the rest of Westeros into bending the knee. She won't have planned that in advance (I never thought she would and the showrunners have suggested as much), but that will have been the brutal logic that caused her to snap in the moment.

Again for the sake of discussion, I would re-work your comparison as:

History:
- USA has a weapon of mass destruction (atomic bombs)
- USA considers using its WMD to achieve what it wants (Japan surrenders, ending the war with USA victorious) but presumably struggled with the ethics of it and didn't immediately rush to use it (I don't know the detail of the history so happy to be corrected on this point).
- USA continues to battle without using its WMD but with no success.
- USA eventuaklly uses its WMD on two cities, indiscriminately killing innocent civilians, to force the rest of Japan to surrender, they do, and the war is over.

Game of Thrones:
- Dany has a weapon of mass destruction (the dragons)
- Dany considers using her WMD to achieve what she wants (the throne) but is talked out of it on a number of occasions.
- Dany therefore tries another approach - winning over the people of Westeros by helping them and getting them to help her, but events lead her to realise that this route cannot give her what she wants.
- Dany therefore uses her WMD on a city, indiscriminately killing innocent civilians, to try and force the rest of Westeros to accept her or risk meeting the same fate.

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Offline Grappler

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7171 on: May 14, 2019, 06:19:09 AM »
just feel like one of the few people actually sticking up for this season because I LOVE this franchise, it really truly is not as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be

I'm right here with you.  I've been loving this season and have no interest in sitting around and criticizing things that we have no control over.  Would I have loved two more, 10 episode seasons?  Of course.  But we got 13 episodes instead of 20.  I can't control that, so why bother getting mad about it and letting it ruin the experience?  It is what it is, and no amount of complaining is going to change anything. 

I'm just enjoying being taken on a journey every Sunday night.

Offline ariich

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7172 on: May 14, 2019, 06:20:59 AM »
I made the comparison on another forum but for me the battle was kinda like if you watch the battle for Minas Tirith in Return of the King, but you start watching when Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli shows up with the army of the dead. It worked in that movie because it was preceded by a long battle beforehand and it was used as a last resort/save the day moment at the end, but watching it just on its own you dont feel any tension or stakes. I wish Cersei would have had a plan B that presented a real threat of taking the dragon down, OR (and this would have redeemed both this episode and the last one a bit) they should have gone into this episode with 2 dragons alive and one of them could have been killed during the siege. That would have made the battle feel a bit more tense I think.
I find this an odd comparison. The LOTR battles were much more straightforward good vs evil. The whole thing with this GOT battle was that it subverts those tropes because it wasn't good vs evil (some might argue it was evil vs evil but I'd say it was more brutal power-hungry human vs brutal power-hungry human). What the episode focused on was the horror of the battle for the innocent civilians and good people on the ground who were caught up in it all.

Honestly, aside from some minor to medium level gripes (which I've had pretty consistently since season 5) the more I think about this episode the more I like it. So basically the opposite of the Battle of Winterfell.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7173 on: May 14, 2019, 06:29:34 AM »
While it is difficult to not do so, I don't think we can view what happened in the last episode through the lens of modern day, or even recent, history.  I cannot remember if they have ever said what years this series takes place, but it's clear it is set back in the middle ages (roughly), and back then it was pretty commonplace for entire cities to get sacked and taken over the way King's Landing was.  Not saying that makes it right, or trying to justify it, just that more thought needs to be given to the way things were many hundreds of years ago.  Daenerys is more tyrannical that we thought, for sure, but I feel that now calling her a monster or pure evil (which I have seen a lot of since Sunday) is just lazy, without giving any thought as to the above and, more importantly, the chain reaction of events that led to her actions.  How someone gets from a to z matters.

Also, after thinking about it, I definitely do not think now that Jon Snow will survive the show, and here is why: after the Long Night aired, there were an interview out there where Jon Harrington admitted that he was pissed off when he got the script and saw that Arya, not Jon, was the one who would kill the Night King. That tells me that Harrington is a total mark for himself and the character he played.  And now there is an interview circulating where he was asked to describe the final episode in one word and his immediate response was, "disappointing," which he tried to walk back a little with a half-hearted chuckle and then saying "epic" as well, but I think Harrington is likely disappointed that Jon Snow does not come out on top in the end, and since I cannot imagine both he and Dany living by the end of the next week, I think his character dies.  That is my current theory (which could change by this afternoon :lol).

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #7174 on: May 14, 2019, 06:39:10 AM »
Siege warfare is brutal.
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