Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[The Walrus]

I think the Weirwood trees still hold the NK's secrets. He's too smart to have been defeated so quickly, so easily. Bran's story can't be over that way either. Calling it again... Night King will return.

[v_clortho]

When the Night King was approaching Bran my wife says "Is he going to kneel to Bran?" It looked for a minute that that might happen.  I'm kind of wishing that had happened. How messed up would that have been?

Anyway, good episode. Jon, Brienne, and Jaime at the least should be dead. Lady Mormont killing the giant was pretty cool.

[Adami]

I think the Weirwood trees still hold the NK's secrets. He's too smart to have been defeated so quickly, so easily. Bran's story can't be over that way either. Calling it again... Night King will return.

I dunno. Dude literally shattered into pieces. This isn't terminator 2. I don't think he's going to melt back together.

[Chino]

Question. What was the purpose of/Who were the White Walkers?

[Adami]

Question. What was the purpose of/Who were the White Walkers?

Haven't read the books, so I can only answer this as someone who watched the show.

Originally? A metaphor for a global threat that goes beyond our petty squabbles?
In the end? Bunch of zombies to fight so people can enjoy battle episodes.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm so let down. They did all the stupidest things I thought they wouldn't do (plot armor, finishing off the Night King without explaining anything, Arya being in her own little Assassin's Creed movie, crypt zombies literally bursting through stone), and then you watch Behind the Episode and find out that they made these plot points because they thought it would be cool. D&D say "well, we know he has to be undone by a Valyrian steel blade in the same space he was made" - why Valyrian steel? if Valyrian steel is important, why can't dragon fire hurt him? why in that location? why don't we find out anything about him? why the stupid Melisandre prophecy? if the Lord of Light is real and she did have a mission and prophecies were important, why shelve the words Azor Ahai and not mention them even once? etc

Question. What was the purpose of/Who were the White Walkers?

We don't know, they're saving it for the prequel show most likely. The previous show explanation was that they were a Children of the Forest weapon meant to kill humans gone rogue, and I thought maybe through Bran we would find out a little more about why that happened, and why they started moving south when they did. Instead, the show had to say that they have a target to kill and the target is the Three-Eyed Raven because he holds the memories of the world??? what??? why not kill Bloodraven before, then? Why start moving 20 years before Bran was even born, the apparent next destined Three-Eyed Raven?

Just... stupid.

[Adami]

Who's D&D? Sorry for my ignorance.

[The Walrus]

I think the Weirwood trees still hold the NK's secrets. He's too smart to have been defeated so quickly, so easily. Bran's story can't be over that way either. Calling it again... Night King will return.

I dunno. Dude literally shattered into pieces. This isn't terminator 2. I don't think he's going to melt back together.

Didn't say he was... just being optimistic... guy withstood a 10-second onslaught of dragonfire but he's going to go out that fast with no resolution to Bran's arc, the Weirwood net, nothing? My opinion on this climax will tank in retrospect if they don't bring him back somehow, some way. It just doesn't make sense for him to go out like that, in that way, with that little resolution... to me. There's something more going on surely. I think all the complaints about how the episode sucked or the writing was bad (with respect to NK) etc. might be assuaged this way in hindsight once it's all over, but if not... yeah

[MoraWintersoul]

Who's D&D? Sorry for my ignorance.

It's DB Weiss and David Benioff, the showmakers.

[Chino]

Question. What was the purpose of/Who were the White Walkers?

Haven't read the books, so I can only answer this as someone who watched the show.

Originally? A metaphor for a global threat that goes beyond our petty squabbles?
In the end? Bunch of zombies to fight so people can enjoy battle episodes.

The Zombies are the Wights. I get their purpose. I'm wondering about the White Walkers. These fellas:

[Grappler]

I'm so let down. They did all the stupidest things I thought they wouldn't do (plot armor, finishing off the Night King without explaining anything, Arya being in her own little Assassin's Creed movie, crypt zombies literally bursting through stone), and then you watch Behind the Episode and find out that they made these plot points because they thought it would be cool. D&D say "well, we know he has to be undone by a Valyrian steel blade in the same space he was made" - why Valyrian steel? if Valyrian steel is important, why can't dragon fire hurt him? why in that location? why don't we find out anything about him? why the stupid Melisandre prophecy? if the Lord of Light is real and she did have a mission and prophecies were important, why shelve the words Azor Ahai and not mention them even once? etc

Valyrian steel can kill a white walker - Jon cut one down at Hardhorne with Longclaw.  So we've seen that valyrian steel can kill a white walker.  We saw that dragon fire has no effect.  It's not hard to piece it together that the only thing that can kill them is a valyrian steel blade.  As to the comment about the same location, I doubt Arya had any knowledge of that - she just stabbed him.  I think the Beinoff & Weiss just wanted that synchronicity.  The Night King was created by being stabbed in one spot and he was killed by being stabbed in the same spot.

[Adami]

Who's D&D? Sorry for my ignorance.

It's DB Weiss and David Benioff, the showmakers.

Gotcha. I didn't know their first names haha, always heard them referred to as Weiss and Benioff.

I think the Weirwood trees still hold the NK's secrets. He's too smart to have been defeated so quickly, so easily. Bran's story can't be over that way either. Calling it again... Night King will return.

I dunno. Dude literally shattered into pieces. This isn't terminator 2. I don't think he's going to melt back together.

Didn't say he was... just being optimistic... guy withstood a 10-second onslaught of dragonfire but he's going to go out that fast with no resolution to Bran's arc, the Weirwood net, nothing? My opinion on this climax will tank in retrospect if they don't bring him back somehow, some way. It just doesn't make sense for him to go out like that, in that way, with that little resolution... to me. There's something more going on surely. I think all the complaints about how the episode sucked or the writing was bad (with respect to NK) etc. might be assuaged this way in hindsight once it's all over, but if not... yeah

I had a lot of problems with this episode (still enjoyed it) and that list is growing, but the Night King dying is not one of them. Happy to see him gone at this point. I can't relate or invest anything in a character like that. He's, at least as far as the show goes, just a plot device. A bad guy for the sake of being a bad guy. He was cool as a distant threat. When he became the real threat, I lost a lot of interest in him. So him dying in a cool over the top Hollywood way is fine by my. I honestly don't expect much more of the show at this point (I would have back in seasons 1-4 for sure).

[Adami]

Question. What was the purpose of/Who were the White Walkers?

Haven't read the books, so I can only answer this as someone who watched the show.

Originally? A metaphor for a global threat that goes beyond our petty squabbles?
In the end? Bunch of zombies to fight so people can enjoy battle episodes.

The Zombies are the Wights. I get their purpose. I'm wonder about the White Walkers. These fellas:

Oh I know. Zombie is my shorthand. My answer was about them as a collective whole.

[The Walrus]

I think the Weirwood trees still hold the NK's secrets. He's too smart to have been defeated so quickly, so easily. Bran's story can't be over that way either. Calling it again... Night King will return.

I dunno. Dude literally shattered into pieces. This isn't terminator 2. I don't think he's going to melt back together.

Didn't say he was... just being optimistic... guy withstood a 10-second onslaught of dragonfire but he's going to go out that fast with no resolution to Bran's arc, the Weirwood net, nothing? My opinion on this climax will tank in retrospect if they don't bring him back somehow, some way. It just doesn't make sense for him to go out like that, in that way, with that little resolution... to me. There's something more going on surely. I think all the complaints about how the episode sucked or the writing was bad (with respect to NK) etc. might be assuaged this way in hindsight once it's all over, but if not... yeah

I had a lot of problems with this episode (still enjoyed it) and that list is growing, but the Night King dying is not one of them. Happy to see him gone at this point. I can't relate or invest anything in a character like that. He's, at least as far as the show goes, just a plot device. A bad guy for the sake of being a bad guy. He was cool as a distant threat. When he became the real threat, I lost a lot of interest in him. So him dying in a cool over the top Hollywood way is fine by my. I honestly don't expect much more of the show at this point (I would have back in seasons 1-4 for sure).

You and I have such opposite opinions on this, it's funny. I am playing the optimist, you not so much

Looking back on it I think my favorite scene in the entire episode was when the Dothraki failed miserably at the first charge at the wights. I was so pumped, like hell yeah, Melisandre's back and she just gave the army a huge boost in power. And then... holy cow.

[Adami]

I agree with you on both of those points.


Take that!

[MoraWintersoul]

Valyrian steel can kill a white walker - Jon cut one down at Hardhorne with Longclaw.  So we've seen that valyrian steel can kill a white walker.  We saw that dragon fire has no effect.  It's not hard to piece it together that the only thing that can kill them is a valyrian steel blade.  As to the comment about the same location, I doubt Arya had any knowledge of that - she just stabbed him.  I think the Beinoff & Weiss just wanted that synchronicity.  The Night King was created by being stabbed in one spot and he was killed by being stabbed in the same spot.

The reason why Valyrian steel is so much better than regular steel is because (it has been heavily insinuated) it is made with dragon fire. If dragon fire can't do shit, then technically all they did with the dragons was give the White Walkers a dragon, and lose one of the dragons before the showdown with Cersei, so not only is that stupid of the main characters, but they also have to explain the Valyrian steel in some other way and not leave it as a Deus Ex Machina.

The Zombies are the Wights. I get their purpose. I'm wondering about the White Walkers. These fellas:

The Wights are raised dead by the White Walkers, the White Walkers are (presumably) special humans turned while they were still alive by the Children.

[The Walrus]

What? It's Monday morning. Don't twist my brain up by agreeing with me

I echo Chino's question, I would like more info on the white walkers (not the wight walkers). We know they're Crastor's sons and maybe other people's sacrificed sons (nuggetz!), but what's their purpose beyond seeming to command battalions of wights?

[Adami]

Valyrian steel can kill a white walker - Jon cut one down at Hardhorne with Longclaw.  So we've seen that valyrian steel can kill a white walker.  We saw that dragon fire has no effect.  It's not hard to piece it together that the only thing that can kill them is a valyrian steel blade.  As to the comment about the same location, I doubt Arya had any knowledge of that - she just stabbed him.  I think the Beinoff & Weiss just wanted that synchronicity.  The Night King was created by being stabbed in one spot and he was killed by being stabbed in the same spot.

The reason why Valyrian steel is so much better than regular steel is because (it has been heavily insinuated) it is made with dragon fire. If dragon fire can't do shit, then technically all they did with the dragons was give the White Walkers a dragon, and lose one of the dragons before the showdown with Cersei, so not only is that stupid of the main characters, but they also have to explain the Valyrian steel in some other way and not leave it as a Deus Ex Machina.

The Zombies are the Wights. I get their purpose. I'm wondering about the White Walkers. These fellas:

The Wights are raised dead by the White Walkers, the White Walkers are (presumably) special humans turned while they were still alive by the Children.

I thought the white walkers were those babies given to the Night King by that dude who banged all of his daughters.

Also, before the episode, I had this thought that they'd try to stab the Night King with dragon glass, but because he was created by dragon glass, it wouldn't do anything. Instead they did a very similar thing with dragon fire. And yea, Mora is right. I have no idea why that steel worked if that's what makes it special. And I think Arya stabbed in the lower gut, while the children stabbed him directly in the heart.

[MoraWintersoul]

We know they're Crastor's sons and maybe other people's sacrificed sons (nuggetz!), but what's their purpose beyond seeming to command battalions of wights?

Book readers had a lot of theories of what they would turn out to be: everything from people who were turned while they were still alive, people who were turned while they were babies (like Craster's babies), to people who had magical powers of warging or greensight before they died, there's some of those in the North. But those theories are dead now that we won't find out anything about them. Maybe next episode will have some exposition related to that -  maybe they'll try to explain who and what they fought to someone in the South.

[The Walrus]

We know they're Crastor's sons and maybe other people's sacrificed sons (nuggetz!), but what's their purpose beyond seeming to command battalions of wights?

Book readers had a lot of theories of what they would turn out to be: everything from people who were turned while they were still alive, people who were turned while they were babies (like Craster's babies), to people who had magical powers of warging or greensight before they died, there's some of those in the North. But those theories are dead now that we won't find out anything about them. Maybe next episode will have some exposition related to that -  maybe they'll try to explain who and what they fought to someone in the South.

That's part of why I believe the NK isn't gone for good. There has to be more, something with the Weirwoods. That's why he and the Walkers have been making that symbol for the past 8 seasons. I'm telling ya'll, this isn't over yet, no matter how hard Adami wants to believe it is.*

*I say this fully aware that if I'm wrong I'll have to eat crow and admit I'm wrong. 

[Chino]

Any chance we see what's in that Valyrian Stone vault in Qarth by the end of the series?

[RuRoRul]

Question. What was the purpose of/Who were the White Walkers?

The White Walkers were something created by the Children of the Forest (precursors to humans who were tied to the forest) when humanity first appeared and threatened their existence and way of life. Seeking a weapon to defend themselves they used magic to corrupt a human and create a weapon against humanity - a force associated with death, cold and night. However, sorcery is a blade without a hilt and the force  the Children created to fight against humanity became a threat to them as well. Their purpose as intended by the Children was to defend themselves by destroying humanity who were themselves destroying the Children of the Forest - however the White Walkers clearly did not differentiate between the Children and humanity, and in fact the Night King appeared to prioritise the remnants of the Children and their magic.

The Night King appeared to be the original White Walker created by the Children (or at least one of them). He was shown creating a new White Walker by turning s newborn which was left to the Others by Craster, along with numerous other newborn sons over the years.

To be honest, while I would have liked a little more, I'm genuinely curious what people's idea of an explanation would be for something like the White Walkers if it is not what was already in the show. You don't have to like this explanation (personally I think that being a mysterious force of nature it's one of those things where no answer will be completely satsfying, but I'm happy enough with the explanation we got and it's better than some schlocky shit about the White Walkers coming because a Targaryen fucking a Stark was against their rules or whatever awful fan theories some people elsewhere on the internet believe have been good), but I still am struggling to think of other examples of anything similar to the White Walkers in other stories that we knew more about.

[cramx3]

While I immensely enjoyed the evening with my gf watching the episode and was on the edge of my seat the entire time, it was easily the worst of the battle episodes and sadly makes me feel like this is going down as the second worst season of GOT sadly.  I still love it, and am looking forward to the rest of it and talking about it, but this has simply been a letdown.  There were lots of awesome moments for sure so I'll try to talk about both...

The battle was too dark, that's nothing to do with the story though, but this definitely was noticeable.  I blew out the one candle we had in front of the TV. 

The dothraki done in the beginining was pretty crazy.  Just like that, all wiped out and actually thought it was awesome.  I think the darkness worked in it's favor for this scene as the lights going out was pretty cool. 

Melisandre lighting things up to start was nice too although her ending was a bit odd, like, that was her point all along, wtf is she.  I guess it's not that important, I thought for sure she would die lighting the fire and sacrificing herself. 

Speaking of sacrificing themselves, knew immediately Edd was dead once he saved Sam. But it was cool seeing his eyes go blue.

I think my favorite part about the CGI and look of this fight was when we first got a look at the stampede and just how ridiculous it was.  That was HUGE.  And now the problem with that, it looked so damn big and insane of a "herd" to ever fend off, my biggest complaint of the episode, it was just too long and it felt like there was no way that stampede was being kept out for the duration of the episode.

It felt like Brienne, Jamie, Tormund, Arya, Jorah, The Hound, Beric all just seemed to be fighting the entire episode, it was all cool for a bit until they were still doing the same thing at the end of the episode.  It just got a bit tiring to watch, especially near the end where you see there ist practically no one else alive but them and somehow still fending off all the wights. 

Sam standing there at the brink of death all episode and Davos just always standing near something cool happening. After awhile it felt like "no one is going to die" and even with the amounts of deaths which were plenty, it still felt like all the main characters were safe. (which they were)

Well, the obvious crypts happened and it was fairly pointless and meaningless.  Did anyone important die down there?  Nice scene with Sansa and Tyrion, but they came off as totally pointless which maybe was the point as political people (with Varys) just being useless against the real battle.  Seemed Gilly and the baby likely survived down there too.

The dragon fight was cool, but it was hard to tell who was who.  I couldn't tell if the dragons had died at all.  I guess they didn't, but it was confusing.  Made sense for Drogon to fly away though, had to shake everything off.  And surprisingly dragon fire doesn't kill the night king, which I totally would ahve thought it would, but the way they shot it made it so obvious it wouldn't work.  I'm not sure I understand this at all.

And so, the end of the Night King.  Send pointless Theon to him  but while I totally loved Arya killing him, and the way she did so (dropping the dagger move, which she used on Brienne in their spar last season) it just seemed to not make any sense to the "lore" of GOT.  In the sense that, the dead army is done now, and just like that the Night King did reveal himself and did not speak and did not seemingly have a purpose and just died so easily from a stab.  Bran, seemingly did nothing the enitre episode.  I thought he was going to warg at the end, but I'm not sure I get what he was doing other than just "knowing"

Lyanna's death was awesome.  Most badass death since Oberyn's.  The mormonts are all gone.  And I'm not sure a single person survived besides the main characters, but at least with the dragons they should have a fighting chance against Cersei.

The carnage around Winterfell is ridiculous 

[Phoenix87x]

Can this still happen?





From Daenerys vision in the early seasons in the house of undying. I always thought of it as a consequence of losing to the nightking, but perhaps a vision of something else?

Or perhaps a No fate but what you make situation? As if they were able to prevent it? 

[MoraWintersoul]

To be honest, while I would have liked a little more, I'm genuinely curious what people's idea of an explanation would be for something like the White Walkers if it is not what was already in the show. You don't have to like this explanation (personally I think that being a mysterious force of nature it's one of those things where no answer will be completely satsfying, but I'm happy enough with the explanation we got and it's better than some schlocky shit about the White Walkers coming because a Targaryen fucking a Stark was against their rules or whatever awful fan theories some people elsewhere on the internet believe have been good), but I still am struggling to think of other examples of anything similar to the White Walkers in other stories that we knew more about.

What's in the show in seasons 6 and 7 is fine. But this season they had to fuck it up by saying WWs wanted to kill the Three-Eyed Raven, who (from what we know) is the name of a powerful greenseer who's spent enough time in the weirwood network to absorb a lot of knowledge and memories. Now, it's Bran, who wasn't even a twinkle in Ned's eye around the time the show has established WWs started stirring and moving and gathering more wights. Bloodraven wasn't doing anything in particular then that we know of - if they added one more scene where he explained he started using his powers by moving some chess pieces and deliberately or accidentally triggered the invasion, it would have been alright. We suspect something like that may have been happening in the books, but there's no evidence nor explanation. Moreover, there was no Three-Eyed Raven when the WWs were created, he wasn't in their original programming. If they wanted to destroy memories, we'd have accounts of them burning all the weirwoods for centuries, preventing humans and Children from tapping into them.

I wouldn't have thought they would bother to explain it if they didn't set it up in a big way, with NK "marking" Bran and then them looking at each other this episode. I thought for sure something was going to happen. But it didn't.

[cramx3]

Can this still happen?

It could mean Jon "Snow" on the throne, but then again, he isn't a snow, but a Targaryan.  But I do think it could mean Jon sits the throne.  Also it could be burnt down by the remaining dragons.  I was thinking about this vision too.

[ProfessorPeart]

Someone on Twitter had a post where they shared their favorite screen cap from the episode:



I thought that was pretty funny.

[The Walrus]

Trying to read about this episode elsewhere online and for the most part seems like a lot of people enjoyed this episode as much as I did but boy there's a vocal contingent that is just lambasting the show "ThE bOoKs ArE sO mUcH bEtTeR!" I dunno, something about all the negativity around this is really bumming me out, kind of like Endgame and people saying how much better Infinity War was. Think I'll just cut the Internet cord for a while and not let it bring me down...

[RuRoRul]

Any chance we see what's in that Valyrian Stone vault in Qarth by the end of the series?

Two skeletons in an empty room by now I guess 

Oh, and one thing I liked a lot of this episode was seeing the way the Night King directed the weights - the way some of those scenes were shot clearly paralleled the Night King's blue eyes with the warging eye effect, and basically reinforced the similarity between the Night King's control over raised dead and warging. And you could see the difference at some points between wights that were sort of left unattended (shuffling around, responding to basic stimuli like hearing movement) and those that were temporarily under direct control (e.g. those that walked forward and implied themselves on the trench defences). Considering the parallels between Bran and the Night King, I think it's safe to say the idea that the Night King is a warg / greenseer figure who was corrupted by the Children to be turned against humanity it pretty much as confirmed as it will ever be. Whether or not he gained those abilities only because of the sacrifice or he was chosen because he was a warg already we might never know. But seeing that the animated dead were like a corrupted form of warging on mass scale means at least the "kill the leader and they all drop" is well justified in story (that it also applies to the other White Walkers who seem more sentient, I'll chalk up to plot convenience  ).

Considering the parallel between the two I would have liked to see Bran's warging abilities be used directly against the dead, especially since otherwise it may appear that he basically did nothing  But even though he was just bait for the Night King here I believe he knew that was the way it had to go down.

[cramx3]

Oh, two more shots/scenes that were awesome:

Jon running at the Night King as he is raising all the dead 

And the Arya being super quiet and swift scene, that was really cool and reminded me of Jurassic Park with the kids in the kitchen with the raptors hunting them 

[kaos2900]

There were some amazing shots in this episode. The director as usual did an amazing job. Story wise I think 1 or 3 more major characters should have died but I with hold judgement until I see the rest of the season.  I'm really looking forward to re-watching the series once I know how it all turns out.

[RuRoRul]

To be honest, while I would have liked a little more, I'm genuinely curious what people's idea of an explanation would be for something like the White Walkers if it is not what was already in the show. You don't have to like this explanation (personally I think that being a mysterious force of nature it's one of those things where no answer will be completely satsfying, but I'm happy enough with the explanation we got and it's better than some schlocky shit about the White Walkers coming because a Targaryen fucking a Stark was against their rules or whatever awful fan theories some people elsewhere on the internet believe have been good), but I still am struggling to think of other examples of anything similar to the White Walkers in other stories that we knew more about.

What's in the show in seasons 6 and 7 is fine. But this season they had to fuck it up by saying WWs wanted to kill the Three-Eyed Raven, who (from what we know) is the name of a powerful greenseer who's spent enough time in the weirwood network to absorb a lot of knowledge and memories. Now, it's Bran, who wasn't even a twinkle in Ned's eye around the time the show has established WWs started stirring and moving and gathering more wights. Bloodraven wasn't doing anything in particular then that we know of - if they added one more scene where he explained he started using his powers by moving some chess pieces and deliberately or accidentally triggered the invasion, it would have been alright. We suspect something like that may have been happening in the books, but there's no evidence nor explanation. Moreover, there was no Three-Eyed Raven when the WWs were created, he wasn't in their original programming. If they wanted to destroy memories, we'd have accounts of them burning all the weirwoods for centuries, preventing humans and Children from tapping into them.

I wouldn't have thought they would bother to explain it if they didn't set it up in a big way, with NK "marking" Bran and then them looking at each other this episode. I thought for sure something was going to happen. But it didn't.

Yeah, I would have liked to see more that related exactly how the Night King saw killing Bran / the Three Eyed Raven. It is tough because we know that the Night King isn't going to actually speak (and I believe in the books the Others will only speak in their own language that sounds like cracking ice - the show tried to create a language for them but were unable to make something that actually matched the description in the books without sounding stupid). Since we were unlikely to get much in words I thought there was the possibility for something to be communicated through visions that might give us a better understanding of that conflict.

As I interpreted it, what happened was that Bran knew the Night King would die there. I don't think he knows literally everything that will happen the same way he can see the past as visions of the future are always more nebulous, but i believe he knew that if the Night king came to the godswood at Winterfell he would die. That was what the interaction between the two was about in my opinion - the Night King sensed that something was wrong. I also suspect that in order to properly kill Bran (and not let him to continue to exist as just a presence in the weirwood) it actually had to be the Night King to do it, as he killed the previous Three Eyed Raven.

I agree it would have been good to get some more understanding of the Three Eyed Raven's activity in the buildup to the conflict that might give some semblance of an answer to the "why now?" question.

As for the existence of the Three Eyed Raven in the past, Bloodraven as the Three Eyed Raven didnt exist until somewhat recently, but the show did tell us in Season 8 (one of the only new concrete facts) that there have definitely been more Three Eyed Ravens than just the one before Bran. BR is called The Last Greenseer in the books - even if the Three Eyed Raven entity didn't exist in the original Long Night i think that the Night King's enmity for him would have in the past been directed at the greenseers / old gods, whether they were Children themselves or humans that gained that ability from them. I think that it roughly goes Children vs. First Men, Children create White Walkers to counter First Men but they become a threat to both Children and First Men alike, First Men and Children come together due to the common threat of the White Walkers leading to the greenseers / old gods, eventually over time the Children / greenseers disappear from the world leaving the Three Eyed Raven as the last greenseer.

[gmillerdrake]

I really liked the episode. I thought it was a great battle episode....pretty intense....and honestly my only real 'gripe' if I had one would be that I think a couple more characters should have died....but, I'm not going to let that ruin what I thought was a good battle and conclusion to the Night King saga.

Like most of you I'm sure I've been reading a lot about this episode all morning....either here or on other parts of the internet. A couple of things that keep coming up I'd like to comment on to add my two cents:

- The scene with Arya in the Castle where she creeps and ninjas around being 'pointless'. For me, that scene was placed there to prove her abilities one final time to justify 'how' she'd have been able to 'stalk' the Night King without him or his crew knowing. Chances are she was already in the God's Wood Forest anyway waiting on him.

- Drogon being alive. Honestly, one of the sillier complaints. Take a 5-8" knife....go out and find yourself a 17-20 Alligator and stab it in the lower back a few dozen times. IF you're able to penetrate the scales those wounds would be superficial at best to that creature.....much like the wound Drogon suffered from the wights. He took flight and shook them off....I don't see why this should be an issue?

- Jon (and the others) surviving in the face of overwhelming numbers. I 'get' the complaint but honestly, characters of his (and their) fighting skill are far superior to the mindless bezerking of the wights. The only 'true' warriors the Night King had were his White Walker Generals....and they for whatever reason were not utilized. Sure...it seems like Jon, Jamie, Brianee, Pod, Grey Worm and Tormond should have died...or at least two or three of them....which I agree.....BUT....I can also see how they would have survived. They're just freaking bad a$$ warriors.

- Jon facing down Viserion. He was desperate....knew he was pinned down and knew that he needed to get to Bran. He wasn't going to sit there and die helplessly so why not face down Viserion and go out proud?

The re-animated Starks in the Crypts. I have no real issue with this other than Adami's point.....there should have been characters on the show that mentioned this or thought of the possibility and they should have at least had a small contingent of soldiers down there just in case. The fact they animated doesn't bother me at all....it makes perfect sense. The Night King was 'in range' and he used his gift to strengthen his numbers.

- The darkness of the episode. I think that was intentional to set the mood that the characters were facing.

Trying to read about this episode elsewhere online and for the most part seems like a lot of people enjoyed this episode as much as I did but boy there's a vocal contingent that is just lambasting the show "ThE bOoKs ArE sO mUcH bEtTeR!" I dunno, something about all the negativity around this is really bumming me out, kind of like Endgame and people saying how much better Infinity War was. Think I'll just cut the Internet cord for a while and not let it bring me down...

For me...I lump these folks in with the Star Wars fan boy contingent that 'think' they knew how to do that episode better.....that 'think' what they thought should have happened should have happened. There's a reason why they're sitting at home watching the show and the writers/producers etc etc are the ones writing and producing. Just because it didn't go as you thought it should doesn't make it a bad episode. Get over it.

[gmillerdrake]

One of the interesting things moving forward now is that Dany does not have the Dothraki or Unsullied in any significant number. She is going to NEED the North to beat Cersi. I'd be curious as to how long Jon is going to keep his true lineage under wraps from everyone else?

[Adami]

Another part of me was expecting, when Jon was about fight the undead dragon (sorry, bad with some of these names) that it would have been the reverse of what happened with the Night King. Dragon would have torched Jon would have been fine. Glad they didn't ultimately do that, but a part me was expecting it.