Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[ariich]

I'm a little baffled by the criticism that this was a filler episode. The very first shot of the episode is on Jaime, in the hall of Winterfell, and the first words are from Dany to Jaime. On top of that, there's so much else that happened. Jorah gets Heartsbane. Arya attempts to find intimacy in her short life that's been filled with nothing but tragedy, blood, and death. Brienne arguably is the one who saves Jaime's life by putting in a good word for him. Dany attempts to reconcile with Sansa. Dany finds out Jon is a Targaryen with a stronger claim to the Throne. Bran doesn't necessarily forgive Jaime for what he did, but Jaime seems to find some comfort in finally apologizing to Bran 8 seasons later. Tyrion loves a good story and got one from Bran. There's more I know I'm forgetting... There are lots of significant moments in this episode with characters we have been following for 8 whole seasons, and some haven't even been in the same shot as each other since season 1 episode 1. It's awesome imo...

Lots of stuff happened this episode. I know there are only 4 episodes left but last season the problem was things were happening too fast, now things aren't happening fast enough or they're happening way too fast. I dunno. I think they're handling it wonderfully.

I agree completely that this was not filler.

However, as to why others MAY feel that way, I believe the episode count may play into that. This show has changed from character based to plot based in the last few seasons. So when you're a plot based show, stuff has to happen. When you have 6 episodes (I know a few are longer) and spend 2 of them  (1/3 of the season) of just people talking, it can cause people to worry about how they will cram THAT much plot into 4 more episodes.

Again, agree it wasn't filler, but that might play a role as to why some others feel it was.

You seem to be using "plot" to mean "action".

[Adami]

Ummm yes and no. I am meaning plot, which in this show also involves a ton of action. I guess it could be quickly summed up as "defeat night king" "defeat Cersei" But for either of those things to happen, a lot has to happen. It can't just be two battles, you know?

[ariich]

Well I'd say episode 1 had plenty of plot, though little action. Episode 2 was light on both but I agree rich in character which was nice.

So I get why people might reasonably have wanted more story development in ep 2 but I can't see that argument for ep 1 unless people just want lots of thrilling action.

[Adami]

Well I'd say episode 1 had plenty of plot, though little action. Episode 2 was light on both but I agree rich in character which was nice.

So I get why people might reasonably have wanted more story development in ep 2 but I can't see that argument for ep 1 unless people just want lots of thrilling action.

Well, a lot of fans really do just want thrilling action. I'm not one of them, but it's there. Much in the same way tons of MCU fans get annoyed when a movie doesn't tie directly into the next Avengers films. People want adrenaline and excitement. Such is life I guess.


Another thing I just realized while listening to a review, which plays into my fan service complaints, is just HOW much they are treating this season like a final season. It's like the characters all know it's the last season and they're trying to cram everything into it to make sure the fans aren't left wanting. They're being overly nostalgic and sentimental, to the point where it just seems forced. Everyone standing around recounting the last 7 seasons for no reason than to elicit those emotions in the fans.

And as others, I believe, have pointed out, GoT used to treat death as something that happens whether we like it or not. It can happen at the worst times. But now? I mean, no matter who dies next episode, they've all redeemed themselves and their deaths will have a sense of feeling "okay" if not a bit bittersweet. There will be no real shock or heartbreak in the same way that we had with The Red Wedding, or Ned or many other deaths. Where they just happen because the story called for it. Now it's in service of the fans. Jamie dies? Cool, he's redeemed. Greyworm dies? Cool, look how far he's come. Jorah dies? Cool, Danny full forgave him. You know? It's like they are setting up their deaths in a much more predictable and cliche way than the show is known for.

Again, I am aware that most of you will not agree with me, and that is totally cool. I'm still enjoying the show, just from a different lens than I was before.

[The Walrus]

In the spirit of good fun conversation, not at all saying you're wrong in any objective way, Adami, I strongly disagree - Jaime has not fully redeemed himself. He is a changed man and not the person he was before, but he has never atoned for what he did to Bran. He stood in open defiance against Sansa, Dany, and Jon, and said he'd "do it all over again" if given the choice, for his House. He has a different perspective and he's not even the fighter he once was but that doesn't mean he's atoned for what he did in the past to the Starks, and I'd argue there's almost no redemption for him given all he's done, much like the only way I believe Theon can fully redeem himself for what he caused is to die defending Bran and Winterfell in the next episode.

I don't think there's supposed to be the same visceral shock and heartbreak of The Red Wedding, or Ned's death. We've seen so many important characters die unexpectedly throughout this show that I just don't think it's possible. Of all the theories out there, at least a few have to be correct to some degree, and it's not terribly hard to make a prediction that someone like Jon or Dany might die soon. At the beginning, there are limitless possibilities. I think it's best to just go in hoping for a really fun ride, and enjoy seeing these characters reach the conclusion of their stories. 

[KevShmev]

I think some are just getting impatient waiting for the battle.  I thought tonight's episode was really good.  It is clear that many we saw tonight will not survive next week's battle, so tonight was like a goodbye to many of them.  We just don't know which ones yet.

I think this was one of my gripes with the episode. Not the being impatient part, but the way they are handling the onslaught of death we're about to witness. One of the things that made GOT so good early on was that no one was safe, and a character you loved could go from perfectly fine to dead in all of about 15 seconds. One of the draws to this show was the shock and sudden ends. We got a potential farewell and goodbye for just about every character, and it just felt very un-GOT.   

- If Arya dies, at least she got laid for the first time.
- If Grey Worm dies, he got to say goodbye to the woman he loved
- If Jaime dies, at least he did something noble before going out
- If Sam dies, at least his family's sword is safe
- If Tormund dies, at least he got a few more jokes and a quick background in

It all just felt a little cliche for me, a little cheesy even. It's almost like the writers are trying to make the upcoming deaths more tolerable, or easier to swallow, which is the complete opposite of why this show has gotten as huge as it has.

While I get what you mean, I think it is fair to point out that most (if not all) of the sudden, unexpected deaths that have happened throughout the series were ones the characters themselves did not see coming.  In the case of the upcoming battle, they all see it coming, and it seems like most think they are not going to survive it; the slow nature of impending doom was portrayed quite nicely last night.   It's like most are accepting their fate and kicking back and enjoying life a little for once, albeit for a very short time, before inevitability overtakes them.

Also, I think I saw a comment by one of the showrunners that next week's episode will be in all-out battle mode from the second it begins, so I don't foresee any more build-up to it. Once next week's episode begins, it's on.

[RuRoRul]

Yeah the reduced number of episodes for Season 7 and 8 has really piled on the pressure on each episode for the audience to worry about "How much happened?" and the impending "Only ____ episodes left". If you go back and look at, say, a random episode in Season 2 that isn't one of a handful of "event episodes" that are well remembered, you'd probably be surprised by how little "happens" in some of them compared to an episode like last week's (this week's episode did actually have quite a lot of breathing space for some extended character interactions which I think is a good thing considering its placement in the story).

Regarding so many characters having their "We're going to die" moments (both them literally talking about it, and those moments in a story that just make the audience sense that a character is going to die), I agree that the show is laying it on thick which on one hand is appropriate since this is the final season of such a massive long running story (and the characters themselves are confronting an existential threat so have reason to act hat way) but on the other hand being too heavy handed or "meta" about it might take people out of the story and lessen the impact of things rather than enhance it.

But even though it might all seem quite obvious, I think the story having so many characters that feel as though they could die is for a good reason. It could simply be that we have so many deaths crammed into a small space that, obvious or not, the show needed those moments for characters like Grey Worm or Jorah since they won't get another chance. Let's face it, if a dozen characters are dying then the show doesn't need to leverage a death like Grey Worm for "shock" - the shock will come from some of the other deaths or even just the sheer number of them, so it's more important just to give those characters some meaningful interactions even if it makes audiences think they're obviously a goner.

However, whether that's true or not I think another element is that with so many characters "marked for death" in terms of audience expectations, the audience actually doesn't know what's coming. I think there are only a handful of characters who don't seem "obviously doomed" going into the next episode (Jon, Daenerys, and Sansa are the main ones that spring to mind). And while it's possible that yes, literally everyone will die, it's also possible there will be a better survivorship rate than we expect but because those characters have had their sympathetic moments, reached the end of the line on some of their emotional journeys, and made their hopeful future plans for what happens if they make it, the audience will feel that they are in genuine peril even if they end up making it out alive.

[gmillerdrake]

And as others, I believe, have pointed out, GoT used to treat death as something that happens whether we like it or not. It can happen at the worst times. But now? I mean, no matter who dies next episode, they've all redeemed themselves and their deaths will have a sense of feeling "okay" if not a bit bittersweet. There will be no real shock or heartbreak in the same way that we had with The Red Wedding, or Ned or many other deaths. Where they just happen because the story called for it. Now it's in service of the fans. Jamie dies? Cool, he's redeemed. Greyworm dies? Cool, look how far he's come. Jorah dies? Cool, Danny full forgave him. You know? It's like they are setting up their deaths in a much more predictable and cliche way than the show is known for.

I agree that the 'shock' value of any death from here on out is basically gone....but that's largely due to the scenario(s) those characters will be in.....one's where they expect to and should die. The deaths you mentioned and the ones that shocked us were in circumstances that caught us off guard. I think the show is just at a different point of the story right now where instances of 'I didn't see that coming' are going to be rare.

While I don't have too much an issue with them 'closing out' a lot of these characters (Brianne getting nighted / Jamie more or less being redeemed etc) it is a bit 'fortunate' and does contradict what a large part of the show has been. Having characters kind of get these 'happy' moments is the opposite of what we're used to...but, I personally don't mind it as it does complete them in a way. But I completely see and feel your view on it Adami. The storytelling and what's important to the show runners has shifted since the inception to now.

[gmillerdrake]

In the spirit of good fun conversation, not at all saying you're wrong in any objective way, Adami, I strongly disagree - Jaime has not fully redeemed himself. He is a changed man and not the person he was before, but he has never atoned for what he did to Bran. He stood in open defiance against Sansa, Dany, and Jon, and said he'd "do it all over again" if given the choice, for his House. He has a different perspective and he's not even the fighter he once was but that doesn't mean he's atoned for what he did in the past to the Starks, and I'd argue there's almost no redemption for him given all he's done, much like the only way I believe Theon can fully redeem himself for what he caused is to die defending Bran and Winterfell in the next episode.

I don't think there's supposed to be the same visceral shock and heartbreak of The Red Wedding, or Ned's death. We've seen so many important characters die unexpectedly throughout this show that I just don't think it's possible. Of all the theories out there, at least a few have to be correct to some degree, and it's not terribly hard to make a prediction that someone like Jon or Dany might die soon. At the beginning, there are limitless possibilities. I think it's best to just go in hoping for a really fun ride, and enjoy seeing these characters reach the conclusion of their stories. 

Nice post   

[Adami]

Just to clarify, it wasn't the "shock" of the deaths I am talking about. It's about they happen even at the worst moments for those characters. Those characters get no closure, death just comes for them. Now, every character gets all the closure before their deaths so that the audience feels a sense of being "okay" with them. It's much more traditional, which is something GoT used to....get away from.

[The Walrus]

There is one thing that I really really wish would have been brought up: Rickon Stark. Nobody has made a single mention of him and it makes me very sad. I'm sure the Starks are always thinking about Catelyn and Ned and Robb in the backs of their minds yet Rickon has never once in this series really had much acknowledgment, especially after Ramsay killed him. That's kind of his role to play, but... it makes me sad. The Forgotten Stark. His life had been one of the most tragic and bleak, and his death might be the one that's haunted me the most, more than anybody else.

[gmillerdrake]

Just to clarify, it wasn't the "shock" of the deaths I am talking about. It's about they happen even at the worst moments for those characters. Those characters get no closure, death just comes for them. Now, every character gets all the closure before their deaths so that the audience feels a sense of being "okay" with them. It's much more traditional, which is something GoT used to....get away from.

yeah....you're right. That was part of the 'experience' in those deaths. It was sudden and....you nailed it.....zero closure for those characters.

[gmillerdrake]

There is one thing that I really really wish would have been brought up: Rickon Stark. Nobody has made a single mention of him and it makes me very sad. I'm sure the Starks are always thinking about Catelyn and Ned and Robb in the backs of their minds yet Rickon has never once in this series really had much acknowledgment, especially after Ramsay killed him. That's kind of his role to play, but... it makes me sad. The Forgotten Stark. His life had been one of the most tragic and bleak, and his death might be the one that's haunted me the most, more than anybody else.

He'll be brought up next week when he's wreaking havoc in the crypts with Robb and other Stark ancestors    

[The Walrus]

There is one thing that I really really wish would have been brought up: Rickon Stark. Nobody has made a single mention of him and it makes me very sad. I'm sure the Starks are always thinking about Catelyn and Ned and Robb in the backs of their minds yet Rickon has never once in this series really had much acknowledgment, especially after Ramsay killed him. That's kind of his role to play, but... it makes me sad. The Forgotten Stark. His life had been one of the most tragic and bleak, and his death might be the one that's haunted me the most, more than anybody else.

He'll be brought up next week when he's wreaking havoc in the crypts with Robb and other Stark ancestors   

Noooooo  I wonder if they even recovered his body from the field... corpse was probably trampled and mangled... ugh.

[Adami]

Also, not really a criticism, but did anyone else feel that the preview for next week's episode was REALLY dark? As in I had to turn my screen brightness all the way up and still could barely see anything.

[KevShmev]

Also, not really a criticism, but did anyone else feel that the preview for next week's episode was REALLY dark? As in I had to turn my screen brightness all the way up and still could barely see anything.

Agreed.  That is my biggest beef with modern day stuff: too many scenes where it is really dark, almost to where it is easy to miss a lot going on.  And that is my big worry about next week's episode, that the entire battle will be fought in the dark at night.  I liked the show Boardwalk Empire, but they drove me nuts at times with how dark some scenes were.

[The Walrus]

I agree, but I thought it was just because my TV is kind of cheap (and about 8 years old with some burn-in); I just figured it didn't have good enough black levels or whatever the technical jargon is. That's one reason I want a high quality 4K TV so much, much better visual fidelity in dark scenes and stuff

[gmillerdrake]

I agree, but I thought it was just because my TV is kind of cheap (and about 8 years old with some burn-in); I just figured it didn't have good enough black levels or whatever the technical jargon is. That's one reason I want a high quality 4K TV so much, much better visual fidelity in dark scenes and stuff

This is me. My TV isn't the best....just a mid tier 4k Hisense so night time or dark scenes are always no fun to watch. I'm going to tinker with some settings this week to see if I can improve upon it.

[RuRoRul]

There is one thing that I really really wish would have been brought up: Rickon Stark. Nobody has made a single mention of him and it makes me very sad. I'm sure the Starks are always thinking about Catelyn and Ned and Robb in the backs of their minds yet Rickon has never once in this series really had much acknowledgment, especially after Ramsay killed him. That's kind of his role to play, but... it makes me sad. The Forgotten Stark. His life had been one of the most tragic and bleak, and his death might be the one that's haunted me the most, more than anybody else.

Backwards looking moments that focus on characters or events that aren't immediately relevant to the story moving forward are one of the things missing in the last few seasons. I understand to an extent why it's the case - frankly not all viewers remember everything that's happened and the effort of bringing something up in a scene to make it meaningful is probably only worth it in a few cases. Stark children reflecting on Ned Stark? Works well. Someone mentioning something like "Oh remember the Tyrells? Yeah they're dead now" to Sansa? It just doesn't really fit the current events well, even though Sansa did actually know the Tyrells and you might wonder about her reaction to their death.

Sometimes it's more disappointing though - for example I didn't immediately notice that it hadn't come up yet, but thinking back it's a shame that no one this season mentioned Littefinger. I kind of get why - the conversations that play out are ones which raise issues or emotions that are important to the characters right now and for the rest of the season, while Littefinger's story has played out and no one is going to be doing anything because of his death now. But it would have been interesting to get a scene of seeing Varys or Tyrion discussing his death considering their history, a little comment about schemers etc. and how the game played out for him.

For Rickon at least, the ones who were relevant to him were either involved in the storyline when he died and got hugely important reactions to his death, or are now the Three Eyed Raven.

[The Walrus]

For me it's more Arya not even asking about Rickon. Like she knows Ned, Catelyn, and Robb are dead, and she's seen Jon, Sansa, and Bran, but no mention of the one last Stark. Something about that just bothers me on a deep level. Even if she knows he's gone, I would've liked at least ten seconds of her asking Sansa upon her return, "And Rickon?" and Sansa giving her a very sad quiet look.

[RuRoRul]

Yeah Arya is the one missing out on having any moment related to Rickon (even though Bran was closest to him, we know how that will go). Arya is weird enough and so desensitized to death, and she never had any interaction with Rickon shown or mentioned him as far as I remember so maybe it makes sense for it not to be all that important for the show to have her dealing with it. But there could have been a moment for it to give the last Stark their due. Personally I think Jon mentioning it would've worked - he was hit hardest by Rickon's death because of the circumstances, Arya is the one he loved the most and for Arya Jon represents the positive memories of her siblings when they were younger, and Jon even said something about wishing she had been there earlier to be in his corner, would have been a good time to mention that he even lost Rickon.

[Progmetty]

I've been pretty split on this last season, but I've also been very pessimistic since the double dipshits made the decision to make the last 2 seasons shorter.
The me that complies with the "it is what it is" notion that people say when they want to shut critics up, is pretty content with the job they have been doing so far in wrapping things up. I really enjoyed episode 2 and all the character interactions it offered. They used up every minute of it to make sure they give us enough of these characters to counter the limited number of episodes, a corner they stuck themselves in.
The other me absolutely loathes what they've done here, this episode isn't slow! It's absolutely rushed, the character resolutions and development we've seen in episode 2 could fill up an entire season of the earlier years, easy.
Long story short; there was enough material, even without the books, to have seasons 7 and 8 both have 10 episodes each and go through the plotlines in the same way they were doing on the first 5 seasons. Cause that has to be it, no? The seasons are shorter why? The only claim is that there isn't enough story, which is utterly false, resolutions of the on-going plotlines alone could have perfectly carried the 2 full seasons, that would have the feel and pacing of the earlier seasons. This is not a simple case of me wanting more episodes to watch, it's about consistency.
The working objective of writing this episode could have been "Wrap up as many loose ends as you can, make them feel we gave it the time it deserved" and I think they succeeded in this objective since some people seem to think the episode was slow.
The real fucking shame is, since the show has been amazing, there's no way we can hope for someone to come along and re-do it proper just cause the last couple of seasons were rushed, at least it won't happen in our lifetime.

[gmillerdrake]

One thing to consider with the shorter seasons is the actors/actresses. Many of them have expressed that although they love(d) being on the show....they were ready to move on. Extended seasons/episodes would have required them to be involved longer etc etc.

I'm sure HBO is fine with spending the $$$ on the additional episodes....but, I'd think with the shorter seasons their ROI is greater than if they were to have had 10 episodes per.

I agree the content was/is there for each of the last two seasons to have been 10 episodes....but I don't think that the story was the only thing influencing that decision.

[cramx3]

The only claim is that there isn't enough story, which is utterly false, resolutions of the on-going plotlines alone could have perfectly carried the 2 full seasons, that would have the feel and pacing of the earlier seasons. This is not a simple case of me wanting more episodes to watch, it's about consistency.
The working objective of writing this episode could have been "Wrap up as many loose ends as you can, make them feel we gave it the time it deserved" and I think they succeeded in this objective since some people seem to think the episode was slow.

Well, there isn't enough of the story from the original writer, which means more story the show needs to make up so that part does make some sense to me, the show has shown it's own stories aren't as good as GRRM's.   And I totally get the feeling that this episodes had that objective because that's how it felt.  It didn't feel slow, and it wasn't filler, it was forced and crammed into one episode and just felt off because of it.

[Adami]

I also just want to go on record that I am 100% against zombies coming up from the crypts.

It has to be THE most over telegraphed moment ever, and one that flies completely in the face of logic. These are not dumb characters. Jon Snow, specifically, is pretty intelligent. If none of them see that coming, then it will actually turn me off a whole lot. So if they do the zombie Stark thing and no one on the show saw it coming, then my respect for this show will plummet significantly.

So here's hoping it doesn't go down that way.

[MirrorMask]

Just saw it, great episode!

To the points addressed in the latest comments...

- Pacing: yeah, I can see why some would be fine with it, and some annoyed by it. But, for better or worse, the writers have purged every other storyline, so there's literally nothing else to show. The Tyrells are all dead, the Dorne storyline was butchered and buried, Yara and Theon got back to Winterfell... there's absolutely nothing else worth showing other than Qyburn fooling around and Cersei having hate sex with Euron.
- This ties also with the number of episodes... I believe they said that the production escalated into the "basically a movie" category, that's why they couldn't film more episodes. But I do wish we got 80 episodes in the end.

And now, some musings about the episode...

- Good recton of Dany's attitude by going up to Sansa and be friendlier with her. Took Jorah to do it.
- Tormund as a comic relief is awesome  him trying to impress Brienne with the story of the giantess nurturing him and then drinking like the average drunk metalhead at a concert was glorious. Also, I have no doubt about what he means with "I'd knight you 10 times over".
- ARYA GOT LAID, YAY!!! But it felt weird. I mean, I know that Maise has grown up and that she's an adult woman now but she was always cute little psycho killer, and when you see her in talk shows she's always cute and adorable, felt weird to see almost her butt and almost her boobs 
- Jon, are you sure the best moment to tell Dany the truth is moments before the most important battle in the history of Westeros? way to destabilize her mind!!!
- As mentioned earlier, I can totally see the crypts being a disaster for everyone involved. But I bet it would be something better than "zombie Starks" - I mean, how decomposed are the bodies anyway? Ned Stark was beheaded and the casket presented by Littlefinger to Catelyn was too small to contain a headless adult man. The ancestors are dust by now.
- I didn't really get a continous "Hey, look this character, he's good now, he's gonna die" feel... but I did get it from Greyworm and Missandei talking about her home. They're totally a goner.
- Forget everyone not mentioning Rickon. WHY NOBODY IS MAKING A CONTINGENCY PLAN FOR THE UNDEAD DRAGON?
- Speaking of that.... to quote Margaery at the sept: "The Night King is not here. The undead dragon is not here. Why do you think they're not here?"

(The answer might be that Reddit theory I posted some days ago)

[Adami]

And while I don't blame the characters on the show for this, Bran's plan with the Night King....is REALLY dumb.


"Hey guys, I'm gonna hang out by this tree with freakin Reek and wait for the Night King to come for me. And then Reek.....freakin Reek......will kill the Night King"

NO!

The Night King is on a god damn ice dragon! All he has to do is fly over you and torch you in 2 seconds. Bam. Done.


Obviously the Night King won't be anywhere near Winterfell, but it's a bad plan.

This is a major problem with the whites in general. When they were a metaphor for putting aside your small issues for a global threat, they were great. But they've stopped being a good metaphor and now they're just another giant faceless army where they all die once you kill the big boss. Less interesting to me. But people want battles and cool stuff, so that's what the shows do.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and they will be dealt with in a non-traditional way, but I doubt it. Looks like we're going full on traditional.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, the "Kill the big boss" issue, when presented in Beyond the Wall (the episode), worried me as well. It reminded me of knowing of Voldemort's horcruxes in the Harry Potter saga - the moment you learn about them, does anybody have any doubt about how, give or take the actual detalis, the story is gonna end?

I hope too it's not gonna be the same here.

Also, forgot about it earlier, the dragons riding scene should have been less merry and frolicking. Dany should have not egged Jon to climb aboard a dragon, like "Sorry guys, we were riding a dragon and your ex King is dead because he fell, whopsie! my bad!" would have been an acceptable option. Dany should have been both amazed and worried about Jon being allowed by Rhaegal on board with him, and then during the revelation Jon should have said "Now I guess we know why Rhaegal allowed me to fly him".

[The Walrus]

EDIT: My two cents: The wights have never been anymore than faceless peons who die when a White Walker is killed. That's never changed. They still are that metaphor for putting aside (relatively) small issues for a global threat, too - that's why they allowed Jaime to join their ranks, that's why Tyrion made an argument for the Lannister army marching north, that's why Sansa has tried to steady herself and get along with Daenerys, that's why Jon has tried to calm the northern lords down from their outrage over the aforementioned news.

[Adami]

I don't have a problem with the idea of zombie Starks in general. Rickon could be one, and so could Lyanna. She only died...30 years ago maybe? Bodies ain't dust at that point. She might be ugly, but she's still in one piece. Especially in that cold.

My issue is this...

Every single person watching's reaction to the crypts: "OH MY GOD THEY ARE GOING TO BECOME WHITES DOWN THERE"
Every character in the show: "Sounds like a safe place to put everyone without any weapons"

The issue with that, is that we all have the same exact information. We don't know anything the characters don't know. If we ALL notice something super quickly, and no one in the show figures that thing out, then that is bad and lazy writing.

Like I said, I hope it doesn't go down that way.

[Chino]

The crypts are likely somewhere in the 40°F range and likely very dry. Bodies would mummify, not decay.

[The Walrus]

Adami, that's racist. It's wights! 

I don't know decomposition well (despite being friends with a mortician), but I would have thought Lyanna would be too far gone to be brought back. Like I said though I don't know if they buried her in permafrost so maybe... Someone else raised a good point: the wight they brought to King's Landing was in a big wooden box and couldn't break free by thrashing relentlessly around in there. Think a wight could break out of a stone tomb even if they weren't chained?

EDIT: Just saw Chino's post. Interesting. Y'know, either way, I'm fine with wights in the crypt. Bring it on. This show is just too much damn fun.

[cramx3]

We all know Starks are in stone down there, but are there other burials?  I just wonder how much their truly is to the crypts.  The Starks rising out of the stone seems unlikely to me, but we know they can be resurrected just as skeletons so the decomposing part doesn't seem to be an issue, it's just if they are together enough to form a body that can move I guess.  If there's more burials down there not in stone, I don't see why those couldn't rise.  If the Starks are stone mummies though, that will be really dumb IMO. 

My thinking at this point, we know there's a hidden way in/out of Winterfell through the crypts and Theon knows this.  I'm thinking it's more likely the escape route when Winterfell falls, than the choke point of death, although also a strong possibility.   Theon maybe leading the way but staying back to by time as his final sacrifice seems possible.  And I do think Winterfell falls and the survivors go off to Pyke to recover.  Maybe Dragonstone, but I think the show has mentioned Pyke being safe a couple times.

[Podaar]

If the dead of the Starks turn to wights, I predict that Sam will chant the rhyme that summons Tom Bombadil to rescue them.

[RuRoRul]

This is a major problem with the whites in general. When they were a metaphor for putting aside your small issues for a global threat, they were great. But they've stopped being a good metaphor and now they're just another giant faceless army where they all die once you kill the big boss.

Yeah, and ultimately that's an issue that was always going to be a potential problem with this story - how do you have something that serves well as that metaphor for a global threat when characters are more focused on other conflicts, then not have it feel lackluster or at least completely different from the earlier story when the characters actually do put aside some of their issues to face the threat directly? Don't get me wrong, I think there will be some good material to be found in fighting against an army of zombies, but it's definitely not the same type of fleshed out, complexity laden and tradition eschewing conflict that made the show originally shine.

I was thinking about this earlier since book readers have long since wondered what it would be like once the main characters and most of the people of Westeros had to actually think about the army of the dead. And the fact is... when it comes to the books we're still wondering. The wights and what's beyond the Wall are not even remotely close to the story for virtually all of the characters. The only POV characters in the books that even have any idea or care in the slightest are Jon, Bran, and Sam, plus Melisandre and Davos. We only have a single chapter of Melisandre's POV, and while Davos came with Stannis to the Wall his book storyline took him away from the Wall and has been only concerned with politics between Northern Houses - and the army of the dead beyond the Wall is just not a big factor in the politics of the books at the moment. And for some perspective - in the books even Jon Snow has not yet laid eyes on a White Walker, Samwell is the only POV character outside of the prologue that has seen one.

Obviously with the show passing the books they've been out on their own for a while now and there have been some difficulties without the books as a roadmap (the biggest one being in making it feel like there are wider political consequences to big events, imo), but I think it's quite notable that when it comes to the fight against the White Walkers not only are they on their own storywise but they have literally no basis from GRRM's books for how to treat people reacting to the threat of the wights, for anyone outside of the Night's Watch and people operating off of magic visions. It's questionable how well it's been done of course but being left with this existential threat that was always hovering at the edge of the story with no published material to guide them on how to handle it, it has been interesting to see them attempt to bring it together at least.