Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[The Walrus]

Pride is a bitch, and the houses of the north are a rather proud bunch. 

[ariich]

One thing that pissed me off on the new episode was that lord Glover withdrawing his support to Jon Snow's war effort. It's pretty stupid to think he -Glover- doesn't understand the scope or the magnitude of what's happening, I mean even if you don't believe Jon Snow's stories about the white walkers, everybody knows that the thousand year old structure on the edge of the world has been destroyed and whoever destroyed it, be it white walkers or the Backstreet Boys, are marching south with a huge army. And you're gonna wait it out in your castle cause you think Jon Snow is a wimp for bending the knee to the Targaryan queen, good plan boss.

I'm not gonna defend what probably won't enter any "100 greatest plot points" list, but history has taught us that people have definitively the ability to fail to see the bigger picture and care only about their interests.

This rather under-sells the point - it's one of the major themes of the show. Caring about their own political interests and missing the bigger issues is what almost all the characters have been doing since season 1 and it's basically the main story of the books/shows.

[King Postwhore]

It's not like they got the information on the wall from CNN, or on a website.  They didn't believe the word of mouth.  Then add what Rich said.

[Progmetty]

I'm on board with ariich post, I wasn't panning it as a weak plot point, but as a dumb decision from captain Darling.

It's not like they got the information on the wall from CNN, or on a website.  They didn't believe the word of mouth.  Then add what Rich said.

I buy the stubbornness and arrogance but I don't buy that they don't believe it's happening, the wall is presumably the biggest structure in this world? a lot of people must have seen the giant gap in it. Also ravens have been sent as we know news got to King's Landing. You gotta do some serious looking-the-other-way to not know, well, I guess if the white walkers can be interpreted as a metaphor for global warming; maybe it is possible that some are not believing.

The episode is on again now and the scene in the meeting room where Jon Snow justifies why he bent the knee, defend the north or keep my crown, the bigger picture and all that, the northerners still show dismay and it got me laughing at the contrast with the Ironborn who are ridiculously easy to sway loyalties instantly. Yara is queen! YEAH! no, Yuron is here so he's king! YEAH! Yara was captured so let's go off on our own, YEAH! Theon beats our most vocal guy up so we're gonna go back and free Yara cause she's our queen YEAH!

[The Walrus]

One of my friends finally started watching the show after I let him borrow season 1 on Blu-ray, and when I went over to his place last night I showed up right at the moment Jaime pushed Bran out of the tower. Funny to think that it would take 8 seasons + 1 episode after the first episode to wrap up that plot thread, but here we are. I can't wait to see how this goes down tonight.

[faizoff]

The episode showed up 4 mins early for me on HBO Now lol. Another brilliant episode, I cannot friggin wait for episode 3. With Sapochnik back as the director, I cannot imagine how the battle is going to look like. I thought there would be at least a skirmish in this episode with the way things were going but couldn't be more happier.

Loved all the dialogue and can't believe it felt shorter for me than last episode when this episode was actually longer.
Also, does the episode appear without any title for anyone else? I have HBO Now and when the new episode pops up it just shows as episode number 69 or 68 as it did last week. The name only appears like a day or two later.

[The Walrus]

Yeah, they're really keeping the titles and synopses under wraps.

That was another killer episode with lots of moments that had me yelling, "YES!" Like Brienne getting knighted, Arya getting laid, Tormund getting drunk... basically the whole episode was awesome. But I still have one question... Where is Melisandre? I feel like she's going to come back too late at this point - or she's only going to show up at King's Landing.

[Chino]

I feel the opposite. I can't believe with just 6 episodes this season, we got one that was basically filler from beginning to end. I felt like much of the dialog was completely unnecessary and/or forced.

Also, everyone in the crypts is fucked. I'm standing by my prediction from seasons ago that dead Starks are going to rise as the army approaches. They'll close the doors and trap everyone in there for the greater good.

Prediction: Using Bran as bait isn't going to play out. The night King probably isn't there. I wouldn't be surprised if the approaching army unexpectedly stops as he flies south to convert everyone in King's Landing into a 1M strong army of the dead. That should be easy with the dragon. He'll then go North and hit Winterfell from both sides.

[faizoff]

Also... GHOST!!
Tormund has overtaken the Hound as my favorite side character after that episode, his deadpan delivery is amazing.

[Grappler]

I feel the opposite. I can't believe with just 6 episodes this season, we got one that was basically filler from beginning to end. I felt like much of the dialog was completely unnecessary and/or forced.

People complain when the pacing of the show is too fast.....and people then complain when the show takes a moment to slow down?  This episode had ZERO filler, and the equivalent of episodes in the earlier seasons when the characters were traveling around on horseback for an entire episode, leaving them nothing to do but have great dialogues together.  I have loved watching these characters come together and interact with each other for the first time, or the first time in a season or two.

My only thought is that the battle could span more than one episode.   I do like that Bran gave everyone the Night King's reason for war....to erase mankind's memories, and therefore mankind itself. 

I was talking to a coworker the other day, and she and her group in the office spend so much time nitpicking this show to death.  I told her that I'm done reading theories, done being overly critical and done with any sort of spoilers.  I just want to be taken on a journey for the next few weeks and enjoy the last few episodes of one of my favorite shows of all time. 

[faizoff]

I'm done reading theories, done being overly critical and done with any sort of spoilers.  I just want to be taken on a journey for the next few weeks and enjoy the last few episodes of one of my favorite shows of all time. 

I've been this way the past 3 seasons. I don't read any theory or even think of what is going to happen, any co-worker that talks about what they think will happen, I change the topic. I don't want to know/speculate anything. And with just 4 episodes left. I have zero thoughts on what I think will happen, I just want to see it.
And I want to add I don't have any issue with anyone trying to theorize or speculate, I just don't want to partake.

[KevShmev]

I think some are just getting impatient waiting for the battle.  I thought tonight's episode was really good.  It is clear that many we saw tonight will not survive next week's battle, so tonight was like a goodbye to many of them.  We just don't know which ones yet.

[Adami]

I enjoyed the episode. I like these characters. That said, my next opinion will definitely not be shared by most, and that is totally cool.


To me, personally, it feels like this season is going pretty far into fan service. Jon and Dany riding dragons together. Everyone reuniting in one episode. Brienne gets knighted.....by Jamie....Arya gets together (or at least bones) Gendry. Little lady Mormont telling off Sir Friendzone. Jamie completely redeeming himself. Theon being redeemed. Etc.

Like I said, still enjoyed it. Still excited for the rest of the season. But it feels less like a story told by a guy with a strong vision, and more like a committee doing what they think will get them the highest ratings and giving the people what they want. It's clearly working, so good for them. It's just quite different than what made me fall in love with this show in the first few seasons.

Here's looking forward to lots of battles and cool awesome dragons and explosions and stuff.

[Adami]

Dammit. Meant to modify. Not quote.

[faizoff]

Somone in Wiki named tonight's episode as 'The Rightful Queen' when I last checked. I see HBO has named the episode as 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms'.

To Adami's point, I honestly don't mind the fan service, I fully acknowledge it yet am fully entertained by it. I personally, like many others, speculate that the next episode is going to be a bloodbath.Throughout the episode I kept having an impending doom feeling and when the episode ended, I thought it will all happen in the next episode.
At least I have Endgame and meeting & seeing DT next week to distract me until the next episode airs.

[gmillerdrake]

I think some are just getting impatient waiting for the battle.  I thought tonight's episode was really good.  It is clear that many we saw tonight will not survive next week's battle, so tonight was like a goodbye to many of them.  We just don't know which ones yet.

This was my group of friends after tonight’s episode. They just want the battles and blood. I think these two opening episodes were done really well....and once next week hits it’ll be a race to the finish.

A couple things:

- Too much was made about the crypts being ‘safe’ in tonights’ episode. This is really pointing to dead Starks rising and laying waste to those who are locked in there. And, with the small snippet of next weeks episode of Dany telling Jon the dead are already in Winterfell....before the battle had seemingly started.....
- They’re certainly adding fuel to the fire that Arya and Gendry may end up ruling the seven Kingdoms...or at least Lording over Winterfell.
- I will bet even money right now Jon is forced to kill Dany....because she looked ticked that he was basically in her way of the throne....especially after her speech to Sansa about that being all that mattered to her. She’s going to try and take him out or something.....
- and on that note the moment she learns that he’s a Targaryn it’s not “ewwww gross...I shagged my nephew...” it’s, your saying your the heir 

I don’t know. I guess I can see the point of these two episodes being ‘filler’ to an extent but in my eyes everything that’s happened has been absolutely necessary. I think that the fan service is a bit over the top but I think they’re also giving that to us because 90% of those people are going to die in the battle at Winterfell....this show has zero ‘happiness’ to it.

[lonestar]

Little lady Mormont telling off Sir Friendzone.

 


I'm enjoying the dramatic setup of this season so far, and we absolutely know the shit will hit the fan next week. All the boxes have been checked off, there's no more pieces to put in place for the battle to happen. I think a full episode reminding us of why we adore these characters is a good move, especially since many of them won't be around after the next one I'd gather.


Between Avenger's Endgame and E3 of this, this upcoming week might be my most anticipated nerd week ever.

[RuRoRul]

"A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" is the name of the compilation of "Dunk & Egg" novellas, about the adventures of Ser Duncan the Tall (who eventually will become Lord Commander of the Kingsguard) and Aegon "Egg" Targaryen (eventually king Aegon V, this is Maester Aemon's brother "Egg" that he was talking about before he dies).

Ser Duncan came from low beginnings so was kind of looked down on by higher born knights but came to be renowned in Westeros history as embodying honourable knightly virtues. Also, it's buried in the family trees (and confirmed by GRRM I think) that Brienne of Tarth is descended from Duncan the Tall. So when she was called a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms by Jaime it was a nice touch, immediately made me think of that book and the connection, thought others who might not be aware of that might find it interesting. The episode names being kept secret until after it airs makes it confusing so maybe it's just a guess but I read some saying the episode was listed as being called Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

Enjoyed this episode, in fact it followed up a lot of things I was interested in from the first episode well and had less things that were a bit more questionable for me. Of course, it is serving a specific role - following up episode one and then a huge prelude to the battle in the next episode. That means it has more tension and buildup, less resolution, more quiet scenes and less action, so it's definitely a less well rounded episode than some. But I think it's very much one that serves its purpose better as a part of the whole story.

[The Walrus]

Respectfully, I don't understand the criticisms about the slowness of these episodes. There are some heavy reunions happening and honestly they could even take their time just a bit longer with some of them, I think. I love it, and it adds stakes to the battle that's coming next episode. There are a lot of characters here, lots of them who have been around for the whole run, and I'm pretty nervous about who's coming out alive. I love the calm before the storm.

[Podaar]

I really enjoyed watching this weeks episode. More so than last weeks.

Still, Adami and Gary bring up a good point...this is not the GoT we fell in love with. Without Littlefinger or Cersei (or some other pot stirrer) immediately at hand it is a little bit tame, isn't it. Jamie being all accepting of the consequences of his actions is just so...not Lannister. Where is the scheming, backbiting and treachery? Not a Bolton or Frey left to despise. Not even a rebellious Glover, Umber or Karstark to be irritating. By the Seven, they're even sitting around the fire singing Jenny of Oldstones! Now that's fan service for you.

You'd think we could at least get Vary's to do something despicable.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Respectfully, I don't understand the criticisms about the slowness of these episodes. There are some heavy reunions happening and honestly they could even take their time just a bit longer with some of them, I think. I love it, and it adds stakes to the battle that's coming next episode. There are a lot of characters here, lots of them who have been around for the whole run, and I'm pretty nervous about who's coming out alive. I love the calm before the storm.

I agree 100%, especially considering the storm is probably going to be four episodes long. I personally thought last night's episode was great.

[Chino]

I think some are just getting impatient waiting for the battle.  I thought tonight's episode was really good.  It is clear that many we saw tonight will not survive next week's battle, so tonight was like a goodbye to many of them.  We just don't know which ones yet.

I think this was one of my gripes with the episode. Not the being impatient part, but the way they are handling the onslaught of death we're about to witness. One of the things that made GOT so good early on was that no one was safe, and a character you loved could go from perfectly fine to dead in all of about 15 seconds. One of the draws to this show was the shock and sudden ends. We got a potential farewell and goodbye for just about every character, and it just felt very un-GOT.   

- If Arya dies, at least she got laid for the first time.
- If Grey Worm dies, he got to say goodbye to the woman he loved
- If Jaime dies, at least he did something noble before going out
- If Sam dies, at least his family's sword is safe
- If Tormund dies, at least he got a few more jokes and a quick background in

It all just felt a little cliche for me, a little cheesy even. It's almost like the writers are trying to make the upcoming deaths more tolerable, or easier to swallow, which is the complete opposite of why this show has gotten as huge as it has.

[The Walrus]

I really enjoyed watching this weeks episode. More so than last weeks.

Still, Adami and Gary bring up a good point...this is not the GoT we fell in love with. Without Littlefinger or Cersei (or some other pot stirrer) immediately at hand it is a little bit tame, isn't it. Jamie being all accepting of the consequences of his actions is just so...not Lannister. Where is the scheming, backbiting and treachery? Not a Bolton or Frey left to despise. Not even a rebellious Glover, Umber or Karstark to be irritating. By the Seven, they're even sitting around the fire singing Jenny of Oldstones! Now that's fan service for you.

You'd think we could at least get Vary's to do something despicable.

The whole point is that Jaime is a different man. The whole point is that the only people left scheming are Cersei and Qyburn. There is not much scheming to do when death comes knocking.

[lordxizor]

I really am struggling to see how they're going to defeat the Night King and Cersei in just 4 episodes, which makes me think there will be some sort of big shocking twist to speed things along, or that the Night King falls in the next episode and the last 3 are them dealing with Cersei.

The other thing I think is a little dumb is why they put all the women in the crypts. They are hugely overwhelmed by the coming force who is intent on destroying every last living thing in Winterfell. No one thinks they stand much of a chance of winning. Arm those women and get them out there to fight like everyone else. They're not going to do a ton of good, but it would give them a slightly better chance of prevailing than hiding them away waiting to die.

[cramx3]

I feel the opposite. I can't believe with just 6 episodes this season, we got one that was basically filler from beginning to end. I felt like much of the dialog was completely unnecessary and/or forced.

Yup.  Worst episode in a long time.  And it sucks because there were lots of reunites and moments with the characters together, but it felt all like fan fiction.

To me, personally, it feels like this season is going pretty far into fan service. Jon and Dany riding dragons together. Everyone reuniting in one episode. Brienne gets knighted.....by Jamie....Arya gets together (or at least bones) Gendry. Little lady Mormont telling off Sir Friendzone. Jamie completely redeeming himself. Theon being redeemed. Etc.

Bingo.  Everything was just so over the top and so unlike GOT.  Seems like they took one episode to wrap up everything up. 

It felt like a recap episode, pull up a chair and lets talk about our stories of the past. 

Sure it was really cool and the beginning council with Jaime, the knighting by Jaime, and the end in the crypts before the horns were great parts, but that middle just felt like it was all forced.  Maybe that's why so many here like it, becuase it was what everyone wanted.  I feel like all my friends and my gf who watched with me all felt the same as I do, it was a bit of a drag.

Having said that, it also reminded me a lot of the first half of the Battle of Blackwater episode, where everyone is kind of moping around the castle waiting for the battle, which lead you to really just get anxious and I definitely was feeling that way watching last night.  I'm just worried now that everyone who got redeemed is now going to die since it seems their story is over.

[gmillerdrake]

I really am struggling to see how they're going to defeat the Night King and Cersei in just 4 episodes, which makes me think there will be some sort of big shocking twist to speed things along, or that the Night King falls in the next episode and the last 3 are them dealing with Cersei.

I don’t think defeating Cersei is going to be difficult, even with her having the Golden Company. Even with one Dragon Dany (or Jon) can lay waste to large chunks of their forces....and....I’m not so sure we’ve seen the last of Dario and the Second Sons. Wouldn’t be surprised if Dany has already sent a raven requesting them get to Kingslanding OR if he hadn’t heard that the Golden Company was hired by Cersei and decided to come on his own.

Then you have the potential of Cersei being assassinated by one of a couple characters....that would essentially end the war.

I think ‘the’ battle of this show and this season is happening next week.

[lordxizor]

I really am struggling to see how they're going to defeat the Night King and Cersei in just 4 episodes, which makes me think there will be some sort of big shocking twist to speed things along, or that the Night King falls in the next episode and the last 3 are them dealing with Cersei.

I don’t think defeating Cersei is going to be difficult, even with her having the Golden Company. Even with one Dragon Dany (or Jon) can lay waste to large chunks of their forces....and....I’m not so sure we’ve seen the last of Dario and the Second Sons. Wouldn’t be surprised if Dany has already sent a raven requesting them get to Kingslanding OR if he hadn’t heard that the Golden Company was hired by Cersei and decided to come on his own.

Then you have the potential of Cersei being assassinated by one of a couple characters....that would essentially end the war.

I think ‘the’ battle of this show and this season is happening next week.

I agree that Cersei falling will likely not be a big battle. There needs to be some politics and backstabbing happening on that side of story to make it interesting.

I really hope the Golden Company doesn't swoop in the save the day unexpectedly against the Night King like the Vale did at the Battle of the Bastards.

[cramx3]

The way this is paced and many loose end story lines tied up quickly just last episode, 4 extended episodes seems plenty to wrap things up at this point.

[Chino]

I really am struggling to see how they're going to defeat the Night King and Cersei in just 4 episodes, which makes me think there will be some sort of big shocking twist to speed things along, or that the Night King falls in the next episode and the last 3 are them dealing with Cersei.

I don’t think defeating Cersei is going to be difficult, even with her having the Golden Company. Even with one Dragon Dany (or Jon) can lay waste to large chunks of their forces....and....I’m not so sure we’ve seen the last of Dario and the Second Sons. Wouldn’t be surprised if Dany has already sent a raven requesting them get to Kingslanding OR if he hadn’t heard that the Golden Company was hired by Cersei and decided to come on his own.

Then you have the potential of Cersei being assassinated by one of a couple characters....that would essentially end the war.

I think ‘the’ battle of this show and this season is happening next week.

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get the battle next week. We may get the start of it at the end of the episode. I think this because something has to happen with Cersei before the battle in Winterfell, I would assume. The writers aren't going to kill off 90% of the cast only to have the Seven Kingdom's last stand and GOT's final moments revolve around Cersei Lanister.

I'm still curious as to whether The Mountain can be turned into a white walker just by the Night King doing a dragon flyover. If he could, we might see the Night King take out Cersei before the battle in Winterfell even takes place. 

Does the Night King have/want a queen? I could see Cersei filling that role in some capacity.

[faizoff]

I'm quite positive the two episodes (ep 3 & 5) directed by Sapochnik will be battle-centric episodes, the guy has built his reputation on the two most amazing battle episodes in GOT. I would think they will be similar this time round.

[RuRoRul]

The last half (or more) of this episode was absolutely like the early part of the episode "Blackwater" and also "Watchers On The Wall", the two single location battle episodes from the series. Basically the latter part of this episode served the purpose of the early parts of those episodes. There's a reason every pre-staged battle in the show (and in other fantasy series) spends quieter time with the characters involved as they prepare / await what's coming. Of course, getting the buildup and tension of the first 20 minutes of Blackwater or the battle at the Wall with none of the resolution would leave something to be desired even though those parts (especially Blackwater) serve the whole episode very well, so people expecting the action to fall in this episode were obviously going to be sorely disappointed. But, by so thoroughly doing the "calm before the storm" atmosphere, "last night before the battle" moments now, I think that the show is well placed to go into the battle quite quickly next week, and when we are able to see the entire sequence of events laid out it will be like previous major battles but even bigger - if Blackwater was a one hour contained battle sequence (including the calm before the storm), then this battle at Winterfell is a two hour one, of which we have only seen the calm.

I think the next episode will absolutely include the bulk of the "battle at Winterfell" action. There may be follow up action played out in the episode after depending on how the battle at Winterfell goes, but I think the main beats that show us essentially how the broad picture goes will be resolved in the next episode (e.g. to the level of The Red Wedding, where we saw essentially how it played out in S3E9 but S3E10 began with the continued slaughter as the Hound made his way out of the Twins).

Also looks like the episode title is indeed confirmed as "A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms".

[The Walrus]

I'm a little baffled by the criticism that this was a filler episode. The very first shot of the episode is on Jaime, in the hall of Winterfell, and the first words are from Dany to Jaime. On top of that, there's so much else that happened. Jorah gets Heartsbane. Arya attempts to find intimacy in her short life that's been filled with nothing but tragedy, blood, and death. Brienne arguably is the one who saves Jaime's life by putting in a good word for him. Dany attempts to reconcile with Sansa. Dany finds out Jon is a Targaryen with a stronger claim to the Throne. Bran doesn't necessarily forgive Jaime for what he did, but Jaime seems to find some comfort in finally apologizing to Bran 8 seasons later. Tyrion loves a good story and got one from Bran. There's more I know I'm forgetting... There are lots of significant moments in this episode with characters we have been following for 8 whole seasons, and some haven't even been in the same shot as each other since season 1 episode 1. It's awesome imo...

Lots of stuff happened this episode. I know there are only 4 episodes left but last season the problem was things were happening too fast, now things aren't happening fast enough or they're happening way too fast. I dunno. I think they're handling it wonderfully.

[kaos2900]

I really like the theory that the Night King is flying down to Kings landing because I was thinking about why he wouldn't just fly in on the Ice Dragon and destroy winterfell. I'm also assuming we'll get some sort of badass dragon battle between Jon and the Night King at some point.

In regards to this episode I enjoyed it. I think these first two episodes will be much better when you're able to binge the series and not have to wait another week for the epic battle everyone is waiting for.

I think all of episode 3 will be the battle and will be a complete game changer. To my knowledge, nothing has been released about the second half of the season so I'm assuming some crazy shit is going to go down.

[Adami]

I'm a little baffled by the criticism that this was a filler episode. The very first shot of the episode is on Jaime, in the hall of Winterfell, and the first words are from Dany to Jaime. On top of that, there's so much else that happened. Jorah gets Heartsbane. Arya attempts to find intimacy in her short life that's been filled with nothing but tragedy, blood, and death. Brienne arguably is the one who saves Jaime's life by putting in a good word for him. Dany attempts to reconcile with Sansa. Dany finds out Jon is a Targaryen with a stronger claim to the Throne. Bran doesn't necessarily forgive Jaime for what he did, but Jaime seems to find some comfort in finally apologizing to Bran 8 seasons later. Tyrion loves a good story and got one from Bran. There's more I know I'm forgetting... There are lots of significant moments in this episode with characters we have been following for 8 whole seasons, and some haven't even been in the same shot as each other since season 1 episode 1. It's awesome imo...

Lots of stuff happened this episode. I know there are only 4 episodes left but last season the problem was things were happening too fast, now things aren't happening fast enough or they're happening way too fast. I dunno. I think they're handling it wonderfully.

I agree completely that this was not filler.

However, as to why others MAY feel that way, I believe the episode count may play into that. This show has changed from character based to plot based in the last few seasons. So when you're a plot based show, stuff has to happen. When you have 6 episodes (I know a few are longer) and spend 2 of them  (1/3 of the season) of just people talking, it can cause people to worry about how they will cram THAT much plot into 4 more episodes.

Again, agree it wasn't filler, but that might play a role as to why some others feel it was.

[The Walrus]

Yeah, I get that, but, I see a lot of plot threads moving just fine. 2 episodes ago, a lot of very important stuff hadn't yet happened. I think like others have said the anticipation is making us all a bit antsy, but next week will make up for it. I also think the reunion of characters who have barely been seen together since the first episode (if ever) gives it that fanfiction-y feel but I don't think that's necessarily the fault of the show.